TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS OF THE COMANCHE BUSINESS COMMITTEE MONTHLY MEETING NOVEMBER 7, 2009, 10:00 A.M. COMANCHE NATION COMPLEX LAWTON, OKLAHOMA __________________________________________________ REPORTED BY: KELLY STOABS, CSR DODSON REPORTING & ASSOCIATES 435 NORTH WALKER, SUITE 102 OKLAHOMA CITY, OKLAHOMA 73102 (405) 235-1828 ~ (405) 235-1266 (FAX) dcri@coxinet.net A P P E A R A N C E S COMANCHE NATION BUSINESS COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Michael Burgess, Chairman Richard Henson, Vice-Chairman Robert Tippeconnie, Secretary-Treasurer Lanny Asepermy, Committeeman #2 Darrell Kosechequetah, Committeeman #3 Clyde R. Narcomey, Committeeman #4 LEGAL COUNSEL: Kirke Kickingbird, James Burson Hobbs, Straus, Dean & Walker * * * * * * INDEX OF PROCEEDINGS PAGE Meeting called to order at 10:00 a.m. 5 Roll call. 5 Motion passed to amend agenda. 5 Motion passed to approve Resolutions 8 165-09, 166-09, 167-09, and 168-09. Motion passed to approve prior minutes. 8 Motion passed to approve Resolution 10 169-09/Amend Comanche Nation Human Resources Policies and Procedures. Motion passed to approve Resolution 19 Number 170-09/Transferring Per Cap Payment to Revolving Loan Program for Loans in Default. Motion passed to approve Resolution 32 171-09/Approve Profit on Apache Community Center Parking Lot BIA Contract. Motion passed to approve Resolution 33 172-09/Law Enforcement/Modifying Wildlife Code. Motion passed to approve Resolution 59 173-09/Approve Submission of Grant Application for U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development Office of Healthy Homes. Motion passed to table Resolution 63 174-09/Amendment to Election Board Compensation. Caddo Solutions/Paper Purchase. 65 NICOA/Sandra Toyekoyah. 76 Parks and Recreation/Jarvis Poahway. 81 ECCI/Sewer System Approval. 99 Introduction of John Devine. 137 INDEX OF PROCEEDINGS (continued) PAGE Executive session held from 1:00 p.m. 145 to 2:30 p.m. Meeting recessed at 2:30 p.m. 145 Reporter's Certificate. 146 Secretary's Certificate. 147 * * * * * * (Meeting called to order at 10:00 a.m.) MR. BURGESS: Mr. Tippeconnie, would you call the roll, please? MR. TIPPECONNIE: Michael Burgess? MR. BURGESS: Here. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Richard Henson? MR. HENSON: Here. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Robert Tippeconnie? Here. Edmond Mahseet? Lanny Asepermy? MR. ASEPERMY: Here. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Darrell Kosechequetah? MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: Here. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Clyde Narcomey? MR. NARCOMEY: Here. MR. TIPPECONNIE: We have a quorum MR. BURGESS: Ladies and gentlemen, we have a review of the minutes. Gentlemen, if y'all want to take a few moments. MR. NARCOMEY: Mr. Chairman, I need to amend the agenda. On the executive session, I need to add professional evaluation of our casinos. I think we need an evaluation of them, because they're not -- I don't think they perform to what they should be doing. I think we need a professional group to come in and examine us, make sure we're doing what is right and not what's wrong. MR. BURGESS: See if we're on a business track. MR. NARCOMEY: Thank you. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Since he made that amendment, I'd like to make an amendment to the agenda, as well. MR. BURGESS: Is this going to be the first three items? MR. TIPPECONNIE: I've got a list. It will be a motion on the stipends. MR. BURGESS: New or old business? MR. TIPPECONNIE: It will be in executive session. Motion on stipends, and then a motion to establish signature authority for pay requests, and then a resolution -- these are in executive session -- resolution on indirect fees to programs off headquarter site. MR. BURGESS: Okay. MR. ASEPERMY: What's that last one, Robert? MR. TIPPECONNIE: A resolution on indirect fees to programs off headquarter site. MR. BURGESS: That means programs that are in town and even offices in the City of Lawton or -- MR. TIPPECONNIE: Then one more. I'd like to have a discussion in executive session regarding annual leave of employees that exceed the amounts that are now stated in the new approved human resources policy. MR. BURGESS: Okay. Those motions were being made. Mr. Asepermy, you wanted to make a motion? MR. ASEPERMY: That we combine Items 1 through 4. They're all enrollment issues for approval or disapproval. MR. BURGESS: How many members was it, Lanny? MR. ASEPERMY: Sixty. MR. BURGESS: Let's put them in there. MR. ASEPERMY: That puts our population at 14,617? MR. BURGESS: Yes. MR. ASEPERMY: Okay. MR. BURGESS: All right. Those motions being made, gentlemen, Mr. Narcomey's was first with professional evaluation; and Mr. Tippeconnie had the four motions. One was for stipend, signature authority, indirect cost fees, and discussion of annual leave. And Mr. Asepermy's motion to combine resolution votes on 1, 2, 3 and 4 of this month's meeting. Is there a second to the amend the agenda? MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: I'll second all the motions on the table, Mr. Chairman. MR. BURGESS: Okay. Motion's been seconded. Call for the question. All those in favor signify by saying "aye." (Aye.) MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same sign. All those abstain, same sign. Motion's passed. All right. Ladies and gentlemen, we have Resolutions 165-09, 166-09, 167-09, and 168-09, which is a list of those eligible which includes over 60 names. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Mr. Chairman, we need to act on the minutes. MR. BURGESS: Back to the minutes. All right. You have reviewed the minutes. Anybody have a suggestion for changes or corrections? I see in my note here I said by February 1st we'd have 15,000 members. Closer than that now. MR. ASEPERMY: Mr. Chairman, I make a motion to approve the minutes. MR. BURGESS: Motion's made to approve the minutes from a previous meeting. MR. NARCOMEY: Second, Mr. Chairman. MR. BURGESS: Second by Mr. Narcomey. All those in favor signify by saying "aye." (Aye.) MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same sign. All those abstain, same sign. The ayes have it. Minutes accepted. Now we'll go to the resolutions. Motion made to combine Resolutions 1, 2, 3 and 4 in one vote. Resolution 168-09 approves over 60 members into the tribe. It's a long list, ladies and gentlemen. We can make it available if you want to look at it, or any of your family members, at the conclusion of the meeting today. So, gentlemen, that has passed. Now Resolution 169-09, Amende Comanche Nation Human Resources Policies and Procedures. MR. ASEPERMY: Mr. Chairman, Resolution Numbers 165, 166, 167, 168-09, I make a motion that we approve the ineligible, ineligible, ineligible and eligible list of enrollees. MR. BURGESS: Okay. Second? MR. HENSON: I second it. MR. BURGESS: Mr. Henson. MR. ASEPERMY: You second? MR. BURGESS: Second by Mr. Henson. All those in favor signify by saying "aye." (Aye.) MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same sign. All those abstain, same sign. Bob, you want to explain this, or Mr. Henson? MR. HENSON: Yeah, I will. MR. BURGESS: Ladies and gentlemen, we have a resolution here on the agenda to approve Indian Preference Ordinance. Mr. Henson will discuss this and explain it to the community. MR. HENSON: What this ordinance will be will be a law throughout the Comanche Nation on how to apply Indian Preference for our jobs. And it basically says that anybody that applies for a job, Indian Preference comes first. Comanches come first on Indian Preference, but they have to be qualified for the job, and then there's a process that they go through about advertising and selection. Indian Preference: Comanches first, non-Indians second, and then all others is basically what the preference is. Any questions? MS. SHANGREAUX: So other natives come after nonnatives? MR. HENSON: There's Comanches, other Indians, and then non-Indians. MR. ASEPERMY: Qualified Comanches. MR. HENSON: Yeah, they have to be qualified. MS. SHANGREAUX: Right. Thank you. MR. HENSON: Everybody has to be qualified for the job. MR. CODOPONY: Mr. Henson, do we not already have a Comanche Preference resolution? Because I know at the Gaming Commission, when we hire, that's the exact policy we use that you just outlined. MR. HENSON: There is -- everybody has an Indian Preference resolution, but those -- I mean, those policies that they got outside the government is something that they can walk over Indian Preference. The way this is written, they can't get over Indian Preference. MR. ASEPERMY: Oscar, this pertains to the governmental, this pertains to the new human resources policies and procedures that we passed last month. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yes, October. MR. ASEPERMY: Mr. Nelson, Willie, are you here? You're partly the author of the new policies and procedures. Are you in concurrence with this? MR. NELSON: Just one. Go down to 103, general recruitment policies. It has nothing to do with Indian Preference, but we've set a new precedence there. It says statewide. When we advertise, we refer to the Comanche Nation Website. Then, after a period of 14 calendar days, then we advertise in local media. I mean, is that the precedent we want to follow? MR. ASEPERMY: What's your recommendation? MR. NELSON: I think it's up to the actual department or program. MR. HENSON: Well, the reason that's in there, Willie, is to possibly get the best qualified person for the job. If we left it up to the department, each department, what's going to happen is, they're going to open up an advertisement for two days until they find all they want and then they'll close it. If we keep it open for 14 days, then that gives everybody a chance to apply for it. If you keep it open less than that, what's going to happen is, they're just going to go out and choose who they want and put them on and close it. MR. NELSON: Well, Mr. Vice-Chairman, I think it's in the wording. I think the wording is kind of generic. It does say we will post first on our Website for 14 calendar days. If not filled, they will be advertised in local medial. Could the wording be changed? MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yes. MR. BURGESS: The wording can be changed, but I'm questioning is it just necessary to be on the Website when many people might have difficulty with the Website at that time, whether they're receiving it? And how do we let them know that it's on our Website if they don't know to look for our Website? MR. NELSON: That's the truth. MR. BURGESS: So I would suggest that it should be open 14 days on our Website and notification to local media. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Concurrence. MR. BURGESS: Yeah, concurrent. And you don't have to send the full job description. You can send just a box, one by one, ComancheNation.com, job openings posted, refer to Website. And it might run $25. But as long as it's posted, it's got Comanche Nation job openings and refers to the Website and number of days, then they can go to the Website for those who need it, or our phone number so they can call and have the announcement sent to them. Because in my experience, in the mosts recent two to three years, I would find those advertising in Indian newspapers and go to that Website or call that number and have the job faxed to me or e-mailed to me so I could apply. This was for out of state, nationwide, if I wanted to apply. So we could do something like that, and we would have a small fee, maybe $50 a month for that kind of advertising. And go to Indians.com and Mr. Bigbee's Website. You know, get a steady rate. MR. HENSON: I think what we had discussed when we passed the last one is the cost of advertising a position. And what we had decided, if I'm not mistaken, is that we will put a small advertisement in the newspapers stating to go to the Website, where the Website doesn't cost us anything. Everything's going to be on the Website. MR. NELSON: Do you think we could word it as such? MR. HENSON: But to advertise for a position -- MR. NELSON: Do you think we could word it as such? MR. HENSON: Yeah. MR. BURGESS: I think so. Because drop the words here, if not filled, drop that and concurrently advertise in local media. MR. ASEPERMY: There you go, that's it. Say that one more time, Mike. MR. BURGESS: And concurrently advertise in local media, if there's such a word, concurrently. Do we have an English major in here? MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yes, there is such a word. MR. ASEPERMY: And what was the first part of it? MR. BURGESS: And concurrently advertise in local media. MR. ASEPERMY: Okay. MR. TIPPECONNIE: And just end on it there. You don't have to say the 14 days again. MR. ASEPERMY: Mr. TA? MR. NELSON: Yes, that's great. MR. ASEPERMY: I make a motion we approve it. MR. BURGESS: That's number one. Mr. Henson, are there any other of -- MR. HENSON: No, I don't have -- I think everything else is good to go. MR. ASEPERMY: We've been over this time and again. MR. HENSON: We've already passed most of this through the tribal government. MR. TIPPECONNIE: What this becomes is an ordinance, an ordinance is law. MR. BURGESS: One of our laws. Any other concerns, suggestions, or rewrites, gentlemen? MR. HENSON: I'll make a motion that we accept it with the rewrite. As amended, yes. MR. TIPPECONNIE: As amended? MR. HENSON: Yes. MR. BURGESS: Motion's been made by Mr. Henson with amendments. MR. ASEPERMY: Second. MR. BURGESS: Second by Mr. Asepermy. Call for the question. MR. HENSON: I think what we need to do is to get this out to all the Comanche Nation enterprises, Comanche Nation entities as soon as possible. MR. BURGESS: Once it's passed. MR. NELSON: Mr. Codopony, your question, hopefully we're emulated by all the Comanche world, but we will give you guys a copy of it, for sure. MR. CODOPONY: Well, the reason that we, like I said, I was just wanting to make sure that it doesn't -- well, I guess it does now, supercede any previous policy, is that we were under the impression that there was already a resolution to this effect. As a matter of fact, the Vice-Chairman of the Commission, Lewis, at one time in the past had served as TA up here and had pointed that out to us on several occasions, that in our hiring practices, that was the policy we were to follow, because it was tribal, and that's the model that we've always based our actions on. MR. BURGESS: So that resolution must have been in the '80s sometime? MR. CODOPONY: Well, and I'm sure it was, because one of the things that we adopted as internal policy to the Gaming Commission was a drug testing policy that she produced that was dated in the '80s. So a lot of the things we're looking at, we're pulling off probably 20 years ago. But we assumed that they were still effective tribal ordinances. MR. BURGESS: Yeah, I believe sometime in the '90s there were some rewrites to this on the federal side, to this Indian Preference, so it's been updated. MR. TIPPECONNIE: I just want to make a point here, you know. The human resources policy that we recently passed is applicable to the tribal government. Others have their policies. You know, gaming has their policy. But, I mean, so now we're changing. I just want to make a, point we're changing in this ordinance. So if you look at there, it's going be applicable now. The coverage, if you look at 106, this ordinance shall be binding on all entities, enterprises and organizations operating under the Comanche Nation, and shall precede all previous actions and policies regarding Indian Preference. So it's going to be across the board. Even though our human resource policy is government, this ordinance is applicable nationwide. So, yes, we will get that out there. MR. BURGESS: Motion's on the floor, been seconded by Mr. Asepermy. All those in favor signify by saying "aye." (Aye.) MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same sign. All those abstain, same sign. Motion passes. Item Number 6. Mr. Tippeconnie, do you want to explain that to the people? This is Resolution Number 170-09, ladies and gentlemen. This resolution refers to some specific accounts. This one is in reverse order. It looks like revolving loan is the first one, and the second one should be -- or am I on the wrong page? Something's missing. This has got Apache Community. MR. TIPPECONNIE: It should be 170-09. MR. BURGESS: My 170-09 says Revolving Loan Program. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yes, that's 170-09. MR. BURGESS: But when you read Number 6, Resolution 170-09, transferring per cap, do you have that? MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yes. MR. BURGESS: Then we'll have to go by your book, because mine's out of sequence. Go ahead and explain that resolution. MR. TIPPECONNIE: 170-09 is relative to the Comanche Revolving Loan Fund, which was -- which is an act of 2008, which states that loans must be secured by personal guarantee of all borrowers, including the right to withhold the member's per capita payments. So if a person takes out a loan, they can be subject to having a portion of their per capita held to meet that delinquency of their loan. So we're saying here now the account numbers which are account numbers of the revolving loan, but I'll read the therefore be it resolved. "The Comanche Business Committee hereby approves paying to the Comanche Revolving Loan an annual per cap payment for account number," and we have numbers, and account numbers. What's happening is we have some revolving loans that are outstanding with delinquencies. So this resolution says that we will recoup a portion of those delinquencies from these individual accounts. And we're not listing them here. This is a matter of confidentiality. But we're saying that, you know, because they're so delinquent and that they have this return forthcoming from the nation, the per cap, that out of that comes a payment back to the revolving loan. MR. HENSON: Do these account numbers represent the individual loans? MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yes. MR. ASEPERMY: They represent three loans. MR. HENSON: So it's not going to be applied across the board? MR. TIPPECONNIE: No, this is specific to individuals that have loans and that are delinquent. MR. BURGESS: These people agreed to that when they took out the revolving loan. If they defaulted, they'd be willing to utilize the per cap to reimburse the loan in case the business failed. MR. TIPPECONNIE: That's why I read the section of the 2008 act that said they'll guarantee it by their per cap. So if they don't make the payments and they fall way in delinquency, then they're subject to having it taken out of their per cap. MR. WHITEWOLF: I think, in the first place, having a revolving loan is asinine. You know, it's plumb crazy. The second thought that I have on this is you're setting dangerous precedence when you start monkeying with people's per cap. I understand when you get a loan you should pay it back, but these people are probably looking at something very promising, and they'll promise anything. So I think morally it's wrong for you guys to mess with holding that per cap back. That's dangerous precedence. MR. HENSON: Let me say one thing, Roderick. MR. WHITEWOLF: I don't want to hear anything from you, Bunky. You don't have good sense. I just don't value your opinion. MR. BURGESS: Come on, now. Let's try to stay away from all that, if we can. MR. WHITEWOLF: Well, Mike, I like to speak the truth. MS. ISAAC: He made me forget about what I was saying, most of it. But what I'm saying is I think it's a good idea to have a loan, because when these people do need assistance, they're not charged interest like if they have to go to a small loan -- a loan shark in Lawton. And I think it's good, you know, if everybody knows about it. But we didn't know about these loans. I try not to get loans. But maybe my grandson needed it really bad and I would have, you know, tried to ask for it, but I didn't. But I think it's a good idea. But another thing I was thinking about is what about -- this is just now happening. How far back does it go? Does it go just these immediate people? Because there's so many people that have misused our tribal funds, and we never recuperate from them. MR. ASEPERMY: Beverly, this resolution pertains to our business loans, not individual loans. MR. HENSON: Yeah, it's just strictly business. And when they get that money and they borrow that money, that's usually secured by what they borrow. It's just like if they borrow, the house, they use the collateral, use the house as collateral. And then if they default on the loan, what happens is they take the house, sell it, and whatever the balance is is what they owe. MS. ISAAC: So ours is against our own per cap? MR. HENSON: Yeah, what they do is, when they borrow that money and they say that they're not -- if they don't pay it back, then they sign it that they can take it out of their per cap. That's what it is. MR. BURGESS: Mrs. Aitson, we have a hand over here, and then Mr. Nelson and then Mrs. Aitson. MR. NELSON: I got a call, gentlemen. The Revenue Allocation Plan, how does that come into effect with the payments on the per capita? There is a situation. MR. BURGESS: That's a different question. Delores, did you have an e -- MS. AITSON: I thought I read in the newsletter, I saw it someplace, on these loans, revolving loans, isn't there -- on there, doesn't it say you have to put up some collateral? MR. HENSON: Yes. MS. AITSON: Well, what happens to that if you're going to take a portion of someone's -- MR. HENSON: The way I tried to explain it is they use that as collateral. But when they sell it, when they get it back as collateral, sometimes they sell it and it doesn't pay the loan off. They have to sell it for less than what the loan is, so that's where the per cap comes in. MS. AITSON: Oh, okay. MR. BURGESS: Okay. Your question is where does it come to the RAP? MR. NELSON: Yeah, the thing is, Mike, it is one of these people. Confidentiality, they wanted to know. MR. BURGESS: Then they need to come in here. But, attorneys, do y'all have a brief answer? Would you have an idea what the RAP would be questioned when, in fact, it's only released after the annual payment is made? That's when you recoup the cost. MR. NELSON: Does it leave us open to any other -- MR. BURGESS: No, it's an individual. If they're old enough to make that decision then that's their choice when per cap time is paid, then that payment is made or the collection is made then. Because they're over 18, they're doing that. Let me say so -- Oscar, one more question and then I have a statement. MR. CODOPONY: This is just my opinion. I came to the conclusion you did, but this seems like a smart move. One of the things, I wouldn't ask you to amend this, but to consider for future purposes, is I know the tax commission at various times have liens. And if you look at state courts and federal courts, the federal government, if they have a tax lein on somebody, they go to the IRS and collect that refund, which is basically what this sort of amounts to in our case. And if our tax commission has a lien against somebody, this is another avenue that at a future date you can take a look at and pursue the repayment to the debt owed to the tax commission. But I think this is a very smart move. MR. BURGESS: All right. There's a few things. Roderick, your point is well taken about the revolving loan program and the early problems that we had with it. Recently, on a trip to the National Congress of American Indians, and then again I just went to Washington, D.C., I ran into two different organizations. The promising one is called OWEESTA, and they do go around the country and help tribal organizations set up Community Financial Development Investment Funds, CDFIs. I might have it backwards there. But I was talking to them about this issue we have about revolving loans. So we started with our money. We do not necessarily have to use our money to help these people who want to go into business, these entrepreneurs. There is money available from the U.S. Department of Treasury, U.S. Department of Commerce. There's assistance available. We have to set up a mechanism, and we do have it with the Comanche Nation Enterprises, CNE. I've invited these people to come down sometime here in the near future to sit down with us and go over it again. I know that in the past there have been training programs, Bob told me about one, of helping people manage their money. What this OWEESTA organization does, helps nonprofits and tribal groups to set up these Community Development Incorporation Funds. And it's something that we need to look at. Because instead of using our money to help these people go into business, let's use the government's money like it's supposed to be used and help these individuals go into business. So it would take us, Mr. Whitewolf, our moneys from being jeopardized, an individual jeopardizing their per cap. Because I agree with you, that it should have a better look at, not just that it's bad. But if we're going to help out people, let's try not to use just our funds, let's try to use the government's money in that regards. So that's something that's going to come down the pike here that we need to look at. MR. KICKINGBIRD: Mr. Chairman, you gave a good summary, but just to refresh: The lapse in time that individuals receive per capita payments, once that right to get it is received, that's when they've agreed to have -- to use it as collateral. So it's after the RAP payment is made, actually. So it doesn't affect anything prior to that or affect the authority for the RAP. MR. BURGESS: All right. I'm glad you mentioned that one. MS. BRANNOCK: Is this going to be put in, added into the contracts that they sign when they ask for the loan, that if they default, if they -- MR. BURGESS: It's already there. MS. BRANNOCK: So they're aware that this could happen? MR. BURGESS: Yes, they've agreed to it. MS. BRANNOCK: Why isn't this done across the board to anyone who is in default, not just these specific three people or whatever in the tribe? MR. BURGESS: In default with those loans? It depends what the individual put up as collateral. They may not all use their per cap for the collateral. I couldn't tell you. I would presume to tell you why. Because if I go in and ask for a loan and don't put some collateral up, I may not get the loan. What I'm saying is you have to ask the individuals that wrote the revolving loan fund for that matter. We don't sit on that board. We're trying to keep it at arm's length. The one issue that came up again, in the recent trip here to Washington, D.C., was on the Children's Youth Services program. A lot of tribes are allowing individual members to receive payment or per cap to go to wayward parents. If we had a tribal court, we'd be able to set up the court system where any per cap payments on behalf of one of the parents who's errant in their support costs, half that or all of that payment, just like taxation, would go to the parent who holds the children or is providing for the children, when the adult, the other parent is not providing for them. Perhaps I owe my wife child support money and I haven't paid in five years. So when per cap payments are made, the tribal court would assume the authority to transfer that per cap from the errant adult over to the adult and the children who are needing the service, because that parent hasn't paid in five, 10, or 20 years. That's an issue that's come up. And that's something that can be requested, but it's something we're going to have to look at the legalese of it if we want to do that first. Yes, Mr. Narcomey? MR. NARCOMEY: Since the lawyers said this Resolution 170-09 is on the up and up, legal, I call for the question. MR. BURGESS: Thank you. Motion's been made to accept Resolution 170-09 by Mr. Narcomey. MR. HENSON: I second it. MR. BURGESS: Second by Mr. Henson. Call for the question. All those in favor signify by saying "aye." (Aye.) MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same sign. All those abstain, same sign. Resolution passes. Resolution 171-09. It's called profit here, but it's the moneys left over, as we know it, on the Apache Community Center Parking Lot, and that will be in the amount of? MR. TIPPECONNIE: 46. MR. BURGESS: $46,806. MR. HENSON: And 11 cents. MR. TIPPECONNIE: I make the motion to approve it. MR. HENSON: I'll second it. MR. BURGESS: Motion by Mr. Tippeconnie here. Second has been made by Mr. Bunky Henson. MR. ASEPERMY: I have a question, Mr. Chairman. Where does that money go? MR. BURGESS: Discussion? MR. ASEPERMY: I didn't know we had a profit fund. MR. BURGESS: What it does is come back to the Transportation Program and that's their administrative retainer. They call it profit at BIA because it's money left over from construction. MR. ASEPERMY: But it goes back to the program who applied for the grant? MR. BURGESS: Back to the program. All right. So Resolution 172-09. This is a resolution to modify our wildlife code. We discussed that, what, two meetings back? MR. TIPPECONNIE: We have to have the Board vote on the previous one. MR. BURGESS: I'm sorry. All those in favor of the previous motion, signify by saying "aye." (Aye.) MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same sign. All those abstain, same sign. That passes. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Okay. MR. BURGESS: All right. Backing up. I'm trying to move along here. Resolution 172-09, Modifying Wildlife Code. Mr. Griffin assures me this is very simple and clear when we read them. Vern, is there any other statement? MR. GRIFFIN: We found out since the last meeting that there was, in 2004, a resolution passed making a fish and wildlife code. We reviewed that. I met with the attorneys and gave them a copy of what amendments we wanted to do. Basically identifies who in the tribe is going to handle, for example, the licensing, and collection of those fees is going to be done by the tax commission. It identified law enforcement as the ones that are going to enforce the act. And it will also identified how much it will cost to bring on three officers to enforce the act. And I provided you a budget. And also, at the same time, I asked you to fund two officers for the Adam Walsh. That should be with the package. MR. HENSON: This is going to come out of 638 moneys? That's going direct to your program? MR. NELSON: It has here reimbursements. MR. HENSON: That's my question. Where is that money going to come from, or is it just money coming straight to -- MR. NELSON: Yeah, Vern, where is that money coming from? MR. BURGESS: Hang on a second. MR. GRIFFIN: The tribe is getting some 638 funds back. Part of those funds that are coming back were law enforcement funds. And basically we're asking that we apply $300,000, or whatever amount is in the budget, to fund the law enforcement portion. MR. TIPPECONNIE: So it's similar to the one we just passed? MR. GRIFFIN: That is correct. MR. HENSON: How much money is coming back for law enforcement? MR. ASEPERMY: Right here. MR. HENSON: No, no, no. That's reimbursement coming back from 638 programs. That's not all money that's coming back to law enforcement. MR. BURGESS: You're referring to all reimbursements that are to the nation? MR. GRIFFIN: Yes. MR. BURGESS: So there's a request to use some of that total reimbursement on some of these? MR. TIPPECONNIE: Now, this $300,000, does that include funding the two Adam Walsh? MR. GRIFFIN: That's right. MR. TIPPECONNIE: But doesn't Adam Walsh have some forthcoming funding? MR. GRIFFIN: No. MR. TIPPECONNIE: It doesn't? MR. GRIFFIN: No. MR. BURGESS: No. MR. TIPPECONNIE: So why would we want to be funding Adam Walsh? MR. GRIFFIN: In April we have to tell the Department of Justice if we're going to enforce the act or not enforce the act. If we do not, then it gets turned over automatically to the State of Oklahoma to come and enforce the act for us. We either give up our sovereignty and not do it, or we fund it and do it. MR. TIPPECONNIE: But my question is, you know, this is a federal act. MR. GRIFFIN: That's correct. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Passed by the federal government. MR. GRIFFIN: That's correct. MR. TIPPECONNIE: And when the federal government passes an act, they should give appropriations that fund the act. MR. GRIFFIN: They did not do that. MR. TIPPECONNIE: So if they don't fund the act, how do they hold us accountable to implement it? MR. BURGESS: They did it without consultation to the nation. NCAI was not affected by funding. MR. TIPPECONNIE: It should be funded. MR. BURGESS: It should be, but it's not. And if we don't fund it ourselves, then the state has, we'll assume, the authority to walk into our homes for child molesters. MR. TIPPECONNIE: And they will assume it under their funding. Having no federal money, they'll do state funding? MR. GRIFFIN: Yes. The state's already receiving some moneys. They're getting it out of the -- what's the block grant? MR. TIPPECONNIE: Probably Adam Walsh. MR. KICKINGBIRD: Berm. MR. GRIFFIN: The Berm block grant. MR. HENSON: How much money is coming back? Out of this $300,000, how much is returned to the police department? MR. NELSON: Can I interject something, Mr. Vice-Chairman? I know you were asking him this question. You know, the Secretary/Treasurer and I, we have gone over the reimbursements. The thing is, we were at high risk. That's what we need to convey to the people. And this money was held up. And it goes the whole gamut of the actual tribal operations, the government structure. Now specifically going to a dollar value per program, we really haven't gone over that, have we, Robert? MR. BURGESS: Well, the funding that was held up was BIA funding. MR. NELSON: Yes, it was, sir. MR. BURGESS: The program costs and the continuance of those programs was tribal moneys. So tribal moneys are being reimbursed to us. MR. NELSON: Yes, our BIA money is, yes. MR. BURGESS: So it's totally tribal moneys that are coming to because we carried those federal programs without federal money for two, three, maybe four years, so it is coming back to the tribal coffers. And the exact amount is changing, because each month there's different moneys being reimbursed. Now, we can utilize it for this. I'm in favor of not having the state come into my home or anyone who's presumed a molester under Adam Walsh cause. Because once we do that, we effectively become a state, where the state can walk in and do anything they want on trust land. Our governmental laws and governmental opportunities are restricted in that area. And if we have our own law enforcement, then why are we letting the state come in and do it? Now, I know that it costs us money, but aren't our children more important than the money that's coming back to us? Isn't our rights, our privileges of citizens of this nation, Comanche Nation, more important than the dollars that we're spending from these coffers? That's why we're doing this. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Mr. Chairman, I agree with all of the points you're making. It's just that at some point, outside this, and the department is making a strategic plan right now. I'm drafting a response for us. It has to go in this next week. But we need to be reminding the federal government, you know, that this is not being funded and you need to fund it. Now, if it's a state circumstance that they're going to step in, I agree with you. We have to do something to safeguard our status. MR. GRIFFIN: In April, we have to tell the Department of Justice our intentions. MR. TIPPECONNIE: In April? MR. GRIFFIN: And in June, we have to be fully compliant. MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: Do they go through special training, these two officers, for that program? MR. GRIFFIN: We've already got the groundwork already laid. We've got our statute, we've got the Website ready to go online, as soon as I get somebody to put it online. And the additional officer is going to be out n there to identify those who have absconded and get them registered. We currently have 198 tribal absconders. Not all of them are Comanche, but there's a possibility that a large portion of them could be within Indian Country for us. MS. ISAAC: I have a question. This is important, this Adam Walsh. But exactly what do they do? I mean, shouldn't our police officers already be doing this? And if it gets funded for that $300,000, are you going to make sure that they do this? Because, I mean, there's so many things that all of us private people have gone through with our police not doing their job. And we know these kids, we know the people that do a lot of stuff, but they're still walking around. And who's going to enforce all of this and when? MR. GRIFFIN: In 2006, the Adam Walsh Act was passed. It identified that all tribes an all states -- see, not all states are compliant, also. MS. ISAAC: My complaint is with our police department doing their job. You get a lot, a lot of money. And it's not you personally, I'm just tired of always funding something we barely know anything about and then nothing ever come -- just like this money that's coming back to the transportation. Where is it going to go? You know, I just want everybody to do their job, is what I want. MR. ASEPERMY: This is all federal. Then why are we arguing about not passing it? MS. ISAAC: Are y'all listening to me? MR. HENSON: We had a lot of discussion on construction, the sewer. MR. BURGESS: One of the things that our membership in National Congress of American Indians is, I don't know if any of you got to watch the feed yesterday on the Internet. The question came up on the floor about this very subject, the funding of the Adam Walsh legislation, and the many tribes who are stepping up, and some who even can't even afford it are doing other things to make sure they're enforcing it so the state doesn't walk in on trust land and come over tribal law, try to step in and enforce state law. If they can do it in one area, such as the Adam Walsh case, they're definitely going to try and do it in other areas. We are facing a continuous legal battle, no matter what we do, in Congress with state governments continuously trying to undermine or erode tribal sovereignty. So, therefore, we're not arguing about it, we're just trying to clarify about where the funding is coming from and how long we have to do this. And our position, the CBC, is to network with other tribal governments through NCAI and our congressmen to put money into this Adam Walsh thing. Because it's just tearing us apart if we don't have the funding year after year for it. So we do have to do something different. And the idea here is that we're going to fund it ourselves until we can get some more moneys identified and find a way to get Congress to fund this legislation. If they're funding the states, they should be funding us. That was one of the statements made in Capitol Hill in front of the president this past Thursday. So, therefore, the attorneys, if there's something here that you can clarify for our people, if there's another definition better than I have, or what Mr. Griffin has, or what this body has said. MR. ASEPERMY: Mr. Chairman, would you mind if I ask Vernon and Willie a question? This $300,000 that's in question, I realize it's federal funds, right? MR. GRIFFIN: Yes. MR. NELSON: It's banking on our reimbursement for -- MR. ASEPERMY: Reimbursed federal funds. MR. NELSON: Right. MR. ASEPERMY: Is this amount earmarked for these -- for this program? MR. NELSON: No. The only thing I wish, Vern, you know, you came with the resolution today, is you combined one that's really important, the wildlife act, the fish and wildlife act. That's very important, Vern. Then you got Adam Walsh combined with this. Because I'm looking at this. I wish we had it on the PowerPoint for the Supreme Governing Body. This is a great fish and wildlife act. It's great. I mean -- MR. BURGESS: It's slightly modified from the previous act, and that's fine. Yes? UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: What's the difference in tracking sex offenders and what you're talking about now? Didn't law enforcement, weren't they approved for tracking sex offenders on Indian land? MR. GRIFFIN: We approved the ordinance to give us authority to do that, but never funded for the officers to do it. MS. ISAAC: So you're not doing it because you don't have the money? You're there to do a job. That was my point. You're there to do a job. You get a lot of money already. MR. BURGESS: Is that, again, the federal legislation that was funded? I mean, stipulated but not funded to us? MR. GRIFFIN: No, we actually passed an act within Comanche Nation that mirrors the startup requirements. MR. HENSON: I've got two comments I want to make. One is that these are 638 moneys coming back that's reimbursed to the tribe. It's not earmarked for your program. MR. GRIFFIN: No, it's not. MR. HENSON: The other thing is that we've got a lot of other projects that is in the mill that we're going to need money for that at this point I think is a little bit more important. I'm saying at this point. By April, it might be something different. But the money that's coming back, we got some big projects. I mean, some really have-to projects that this money should be earmarked for. Now, the other question is, we have 16 police officers, right? MR. GRIFFIN: That's correct. MR. HENSON: Why can't we assign some of those over to this instead of having to fund more officers? MR. GRIFFIN: I could use more officers -- the Department of Justice recommends that you have four law enforcement personnel per 1000 population. We are less than a third of that. MR. HENSON: But we still could use some of the police officers we've got now and assign them over to this in the meantime, can't we? MR. GRIFFIN: We can do that. However, you're going to be taking an officer away from the duties they're doing now. MS. ISAAC: Which is? MR. GRIFFIN: It depends on which officer they want to put there. MS. ISAAC: Every time we call, I mean, you know, there's a lot of people in the same situation. We need you, where are you? MR. BURGESS: Well, these officers, they're for the Adam Walsh area. These officers would probably be kind of on call, too, depending on -- MR. GRIFFIN: One's got to be a data specialist, not necessarily a law enforcement specialist. MR. BURGESS: So the person may not be necessarily trained for law enforcement, but would be a deputy-type, working? MR. GRIFFIN: No, it would be a data specialist. MR. BURGESS: The other two or one? MR. GRIFFIN: The other one would be law enforcement. MR. BURGESS: Two would be officers? MR. GRIFFIN: One. MR. TIPPECONNIE: One. There's just two persons. MR. NELSON: The way he's got it written is three are wildlife officers. That's why I would hope that the CBC entertains this -- that he come back as two separate entities, because it's kind of -- MR. BURGESS: Well, I understand it. We've got a long agenda here and we don't want to hold it up. We've been trying to do the wildlife code here for the last 60 days. I thought Jarvis was here. Last 90 days anyway. We've been talking about it. We need to get this done. We need to do some action on it. MR. ASEPERMY: But I don't agree with using all of that money for this specific thing when -- MR. BURGESS: Well, one portion will be utilized for the wildlife code enforcement. MR. ASEPERMY: I understand that. I'm talking about this is a reimbursement. Don't we have other priorities that outweigh this? Can you work with half of this amount? MR. GRIFFIN: It's your determination whether we do this or not. You asked me to come back with how much it's going to cost to have wildlife, and then I also identified the need for the Adam Walsh. I've got to give an answer to the Department of Justice in April. So if you don't want to fund them, that's -- you know, that's something that y'all need to decide. MR. BURGESS: What would you need first, a data specialist or the officer? MR. GRIFFIN: I would need a data specialist to put it online. MR. BURGESS: And this budget here, would you say that maybe $200,000 would be appropriate, instead of 300-something? MR. GRIFFIN: Adam Walsh, you'd only need the one data specialist, and I'd take the officer out of something else. MR. NELSON: Show them that dollar amount right there. MR. BURGESS: Because we do want to have a planning session, Vern. We're trying to establish -- our calendars are pretty booked here for November. MR. GRIFFIN: The data specialist would cost probably about $35,000. MR. BURGESS: If we could fund you for the wildlife officer and the data specialist, approximately would you need 175 or 200? MR. GRIFFIN: We would need 250,000. MR. BURGESS: You would need 250? Because once you start building your data field, and then later we can find the other money somewhere, if we can, to bring in the officer for you. But your data has got to be collected and disseminated and precise. MR. ASEPERMY: Vernon, which would be a priority, the wildlife officers or the Adam Walsh? MR. GRIFFIN: I believe the Adam Walsh, because it has to deal with our sovereignty. MR. ASEPERMY: If that would be a priority, if you had a choice of the two, Mr. Burgess, that would add up to about 92,000. 66 for the officer, 35 for the data entry, that's 92. Can we do the Adam Walsh? And I agree with -- well, I don't know. On your of -- how do we track our sex offenders? You have that program now, right? MR. GRIFFIN: No. All I'm going to be doing is the tracking and monitoring and the registration. MR. NELSON: You can go online and go to Watchdog America and see who's a sex offender in Lawton or wherever. MR. BURGESS: What I see here, Lanny, in terms of the last page on the budget, that total comes to 101,528 for the one officer and the data entry. MR. ASEPERMY: Is it that? I might have added wrong. MR. BURGESS: Under Adam Walsh. And then if we gave him one wildlife officer to start it, that would be one officer. MR. HENSON: We need to assign one of the officers to be a wildlife officer. MR. BURGESS: Ask them that. MR. WHITEWOLF: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a couple of comments. You talked about -- we're all worried about state intervention, uninvited state intervention. But, you know, the precedent that was set with tribes, not just the Comanche, but other tribes, the precedent that was set by signing compacts, you know, instead of negotiating for in lieu of. You know, you're talking about the state wanting to, you know, get part of the pie, our gaming. But we signed compacts. You know, and that's -- we should have never signed compacts. We should have negotiated something like in lieu of. But, you know, all the tribes -- we always let the Eastern tribes guide us. When the Eastern tribes, Cherokee, Choctaw, Chickasaws, Seminoles, when those tribes do something, we seem to -- we seem to follow them. But they're under -- they're a different type of jurisdiction. You know, they have state jurisdiction because the state gives them land. The federal government gave us our land back, so we have -- we're a different type tribe -- tribes out here. But I think that if any more compacts are going to be signed, I think they need to come before the General Council. I think the negotiations for in lieu of need to be taken more seriously than instead of just signing the compact and then going on down the road and regret it later on. Such as the oil, the oil and gas compact that y'all signed a long time ago, or Wallace. I don't know who signed it. MR. BURGESS: That one where we get the moneys back from the state? MR. WHITEWOLF: Yeah. We gave all our rights up for $250,000 or something like that. MR. BURGESS: All to come back before General Council; is that right? Thank you, Mr. Whitewolf. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Now, what I would suggest to us here on this is that we fund one wildlife person, and we fund Adam Walsh data and officer. MR. HENSON: Let me ask a question. Could you assign one of the officers that you have right now as a wildlife officer? MR. GRIFFIN: Sure. MR. HENSON: And that could -- I mean, that could work for a while? MR. GRIFFIN: Uh-huh. MR. BURGESS: 169, round it up to 169. Is that the way y'all want to go? MR. HENSON: I just asked if he would assign one of his officers right now to wildlife and just -- MR. BURGESS: Yes, sir, Mr. Jarvis? MR. POAHWAY: I talked to the wildlife people and Nick Plata. And he is willing to take on the job as the wildlife, and they're going to put him through training out there, because it's going to take a lot of training for an officer to go get the -- to go to a class, learn the codes, and how to enforce the codes, so it's going to take quite a bit. But Nick Plata, on the other hand, he's -- I've already talked to him, and he said that he was willing to take that position, if it ever came up. MR. BURGESS: Let's hold off on that. MR. POAHWAY: That's what they're talking about now. MR. BURGESS: Let's not start hiring anybody without us first having the position. Because they will be reporting to our law enforcement officer here. And that's where it's handled, because the wildlife codes are under the Comanche Nation Police Department. MR. TIPPECONNIE: And we'd advertise. MR. BURGESS: We have to follow our process of hiring and advertising, which is laid out for us. So what we're discussing is one officer to begin with. And that was, we looked at the total cost here, Vern, that, based on your budget, bringing the one wildlife officer, the two people for Adam Walsh positions, came to roughly $167,000-some-odd. Why don't we just round it up to $169,000 for you, and approve that on this budget so we can get started, protect our sovereignty, and then initiate the wildlife officer, and then you'll come back to us with a prescribed job description and the codes. And, Jarvis, if y'all both know where this person might need to go get trained. There's some retired people out there who have done wildlife code enforcement before. And we've talked about this for five years now trying to get this rolling. I'm glad that we are finally bringing this in. Because before this year, in '04 and '05, we just didn't have it on the budget, and didn't have funding out there when everything else was supposed to be met. MR. POAHWAY: The other thing is, we're going to spend a lot of money on police enforcement. They need to learn how to enforce the law. They don't enforce the law. There's people running around that have committed crimes that have not been to court. I realize it's not a burden that rests completely on Vernon. It rests on the BIA up there, too. Because they're prosecutory up there. Vernon can only enforce the law down here. But, still, we need some solution to some of the felonies that have been committed in Comanche Country and they have been let go. Rape of a child, for instance, that's been let go. They swept it under the rug. MS. ISAAC: Too much paperwork for them. MR. BURGESS: Yes, Beverly? MS. ISAAC: Nick wouldn't leave his job, would he, Jarvis? MR. POAHWAY: No, no. MS. ISAAC: See, that would be the wildlife training him and he would be like a liaison for us? MR. BURGESS: That's possible. I don't want us to get in the habit here where the General Council is going to stand up telling us who to hire here, because they have to be compatible with our programs. And if they're going to be on our funding, they've got to follow our -- we have to follow our policies and procedures here. MR. GRIFFIN: Nick is a very fine officer, and he would be probably the first choice we have. But we have to make sure they don't conflict with his job. MR. BURGESS: You can also deputize people if you want as, not freebies, but as deputized other officers who can help in that area, if they so desire. There's that option available to you. So those who would like to volunteer, someone who might want to learn, can be deputized, if they've got the experience. I don't know about carrying weapons. That's in your purview. You would have to have all of the responsibility of that. Can we go forward with the vote now? MR. NELSON: Mr. Chairman, before you call for the question, because they modified the wildlife code on us, and you guys have changed what he asked for, could it be brought back to you in the reconvened meeting? MR. BURGESS: Brought back what, the budget? MR. NELSON: You've got three items. MR. BURGESS: Look at our agenda. MR. NELSON: You've got three items on there, Mr. Chairman. You've got a modified wildlife code. You guys have modified what it was he wanted. There's three items on the act. MR. BURGESS: We've only changed the amount of the money that he's going to get what he wanted. He's willing to work with that. MR. NELSON: The modification is in the wildlife code, sir. MR. BURGESS: Yes. MR. NELSON: So before you call for the question -- MR. BURGESS: And then the Adam Walsh case and then the budget. You're saying there's anything separate than that? It's all one budget. MR. ASEPERMY: Can we amend the resolution to say fund 169 instead of $300,360? Can we change the resolution to say once officer to enforce the -- MR. GRIFFIN: Wildlife act. MR. ASEPERMY: And keep the rest the same? MR. GRIFFIN: Yes. MR. ASEPERMY: Can we do it that way, Mr. Chairman? MR. TIPPECONNIE: That's what we would do. MR. BURGESS: That's what we would do. Because our reconvened agenda, Mr. Nelson, is going to be everything from executive session down to Charitable Fund requests. It's a full page. And we want to get these laws in place. So, barring any further discussion, I think there was a motion. MR. ASEPERMY: Mr. Chairman, I make a motion that we approve 172-09, with changes on Paragraph 3: The amount from 303 -- 300,360 to 169,000; that we change -- delete three officers to enforce the nation fun and wildlife act to one officer; and that everything else remain as is. MR. BURGESS: Okay. Motion's being made by Mr. Asepermy. MR. ASEPERMY: With changes. MR. BURGESS: With changes. So noted. MR. NARCOMEY: Second. MR. BURGESS: Second by Mr. Narcomey. Call for the question. All those in favor signify by saying "aye." (Aye.) MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same sign. All those abstain, same sign. MR. HENSON: Nay. MR. BURGESS: One nay. MR. TIPPECONNIE: One nay. MR. BURGESS: All right. Moving onto Item Number 9, Resolution 173-09. This is approving a submission of grant application for U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development, Office of Healthy Homes. This is a grant that would be in the amount of -- the range from 625,000 to a maximum of 875,000 to accomplish a healthy home survey to see how our homes. We know a lot of them are in bad conditions. This is a survey. This is part of some of the ARA funds, America Recovery Act funds, that the tribe could utilize. It's a competitive grant, and so we want to apply for this. And it would not -- moneys would not come forward until next summer or September, at the earliest, if we're approved. It's competitive. MR. ASEPERMY: Is this grant being applied for by our grant facilitator and that staff? MR. BURGESS: Yes, it's in the works right now. And it's due November, I believe, 24th is the submission date required by grants.gov. MR. ASEPERMY: Are we going to have to approve any grant requests or proposals? Is that part of the protocol? MR. BURGESS: Yes, we have to have resolutions with them. And, henceforth, Mr. Tippeconnie, let's make sure that we title our resolutions such as it's written here. It needs to be up here on the document as well. Because when we go into these recorded and for posterity, it's easier to call it by number and/or name. MR. TIPPECONNIE: It sure is. MR. BURGESS: And sometimes if the number isn't correct -- MR. TIPPECONNIE: I apologize. We've been trying to do that. MR. BURGESS: They've been pretty good at it. Like the next one's coming up. MR. HENSON: I make a motion to approve. MR. NARCOMEY: I make a motion to approve. Second. MR. BURGESS: Mr. Henson's made a motion, Mr. Narcomey has made a second to approve this grant. So all those in favor signify by saying "aye." (Aye.) MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same sign. All those abstain, same sign. The ayes have it. Mr. Asepermy, on Number 10, do you want to go ahead and discuss that. MR. ASEPERMY: I had the numbers. Charles? MR. BURGESS: We can table that to the reconvene. MR. TIPPECONNIE: We can table it. MR. ASEPERMY: I had the numbers on the Election Board compensation. They weren't plugged in and the resolution is misworded because of the travel, I mean, because of the training, one in Comanche Country, one outside of Comanche Country. It's not in this resolution. So I made a recommendation to the Chairman that we get the resolution correctly written and then bring it to a vote on the 23rd. MR. BURGESS: Charles, were you here at the opening of the meeting? We're going to reconvene on Monday the 23rd at 10:00 a.m. in this room for many of the items, because we've got activities that some of our members are going to be required to be at this afternoon. So we hope to be closing down here between 1 and 2 o'clock to get to that. Mr. Asepermy is going to leave us a little earlier than that. Just to let everybody know who came in late, we're going to reconvene on the 23rd at 10:00 a.m. for the business that we can't get to today. MR. ASEPERMY: And, Charles, don't we meet with you folks again on -- MR. WELLS: The 9th. MR. ASEPERMY: Monday? MR. WELLS: Yes. MR. ASEPERMY: And I'll throw those numbers out at y'all. MR. WELLS: What we're going to do is, if this thing passes -- MR. ASEPERMY: We're going to meet at 6 o'clock at the old conference room, right? MR. WELLS: No, we were going to wait for that meeting. We're still working on the -- MR. ASEPERMY: We'll give you those numbers again. All right. Mr. Chairman, I make a motion that we table Resolution 174-09. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Or we put it to the recess. MR. BURGESS: We're going to table it to the recessed meeting. So a motion's been made by Mr. Asepermy to table to recess Resolution Number 174-09. Second? MR. TIPPECONNIE: Second. MR. BURGESS: Second by Mr. Tippeconnie. All those in favor signify by saying "aye." (Aye.) MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same sign. All those abstain, same sign. Okay. We're going to move on the agenda here to new and old business. Darrell, we tabled Number 10. MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: Chairman, we have a question from the floor regarding a comment made earlier, just some clarifications on what is it that we're stopping at here and moving to the recessed later date. MR. BURGESS: Okay. Ladies and gentlemen, we're going to try and get all the way into executive session up to Item Number 6. If we can get there before 2 o'clock, we'd like to do that. We have new and old business with five items, and we know it's going to take some discussion on some of these. And I already have 11:06 a.m. MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: Can we make that to item Number 7. MR. BURGESS: Item Number 7? MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: Mr. Shoemate is at 7. MR. BURGESS: We'll go as far as we can until 2 o'clock or until we lose a quorum. All right. MR. TIPPECONNIE: This is just a presentation. MR. BURGESS: Presentation, I guess. Caddo Solutions, paper purchase? Is that you, Mr. Nelson, Norman? MR. NELSON: We had a good visit with the president and owner of Caddo Solutions. It's a Native first, Native American-owned company out of Denver, Colorado. Back in the day, I believe that the complex tried to buy bulk paper, bulk pencils, bulk pens, bulk everything, and somehow or another somebody became a profiteer up here, so everybody quit using them. So what we found out, Norman and I, we were introduced to this man by our Chairman, Mr. Coffey, seeing the value in this. If we buy a truck load of paper, which we do use within a year, you guys can see the savings. And how is the sample here, Norman? MR. NAUNI: Yes, it's the attached sheet. MR. NELSON: If you'll look, guys, the top is what we're getting now. This is what we would buy. It's the same 2 pound paper. It's a big sum here, gentlemen. That's why I'm bringing it to you for your blessing. I did send out a letter. I put it in every one of your mail boxes, to all the entities, gaming, Economic Development, enterprises, the college. We will have this stored in a dry secure place. It's stored free. Free, mind you, free. That's right, isn't it, Mike? Yeah, free. The progressive tribes have got it all stored in Oklahoma City, be it the Chickasaws, the Creeks, the Poncas, and hopefully us. That way, these other entities don't need to go to Office Depot month after month, week after week, and you can see the value and the savings. And it was a good call. The Chairman brought this man up to us, and it's up to you guys. It's a big figure. MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: Is that who we use currently, Willie, Advantage? MR. NELSON: There's all kind of vendors out there. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Sam's Club, everybody. MR. BURGESS: That's probably the most competitive. But a lot of our folks are going to get one or two boxes, and it costs even more that way. MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: We've seen efforts in our casino to consolidated purchasing, and staff and groups and areas. Did we cross- check with their purchaser to see what kind of deal they get and how it compares to this? MR. NELSON: I have no jurisdiction over there. MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: You can speak to them, though. MR. BURGESS: Well ,one of the things, Darrell, that had come up sometime in the late '80S, early '90s, there was a resolution passed about Buy Indian Act. This is an all Indian-owned company. I don't know if the other company is. Because we are trying to stick with that, as well as vendors to the nation. We should try and use our own. MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: I understand that. MR. NELSON: It's a feather in our war bonnet to always go Native American. MR. HENSON: Has this been advertised? MR. NELSON: Well, I sent out a letter to the Comanche world. MR. BURGESS: It's not a contract. MR. NELSON: Hopefully they see the savings. MR. BURGESS: It's not a contract, it's just purchasing. It's saving us a lot of money. MR. NELSON: I'm not going to sell it to you. You can see the value. MR. HENSON: Where was this going to be stored at? MR. NELSON: In Oklahoma City. MR. ASEPERMY: Free? I get suspicious when they say free. MR. NELSON: Well, they've got 20 tribes right now. They have a truckload of paper that they bought. MR. BURGESS: That was one of the reasons they drop ship to us, whatever we order. MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: Mr. Norman, can you contact the head of purchasing at gaming? His name escapes me right now, but they do a lot of purchasing. I'm just wondering what kind of pricing they're getting, and what scale that they're getting, and if it's comparable to this. That way, if this is a better price, you can clue them into this. And if they're getting something better, then we can maybe swing that. MR. NAUNI: We've checked all the prices now. Advantage, right now, is the least amount per ream, or per case, I'm sorry. So as you can see, Caddo Solutions just blows them out by $3. And like Mr. Nelson said, they'll store it in a warehouse at no charge to us. And we use 20 cases a week here. And what they'll do is transport 20 cases. There's no charge on the transport, which I thought was pretty awesome, too. So the advantage -- the opportunity to go with Caddo Solutions is great for us. MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: This is obvious there. That's a good savings and that's a good choice. I'm just asking you to contact the head of purchasing for out gaming. They've consolidated. He's over all that. And just compare. MR. NELSON: I have done it, what he does, and they do what we do, go to Office Depot, go to Sam's. MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: Oh, they do? MR. NELSON: Yes. MR. HENSON: Is there any reason why we can't bring them under this same umbrella? MR. NELSON: That's what I'm asking, sir. MR. BURGESS: That's their business decision. If they would just consult with us, that would fine. I just want to say that we're out of paper over there in the copy room. I needed some this morning. So basically -- MR. WHITEWOLF: That's a free storage and free shipping? MR. NELSON: Yes, yes. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Let me ask this question: On your reference up above, you say bid proposal for paper products. Will it eventually include more than just this type of paper? MR. NELSON: Hopefully, hopefully. MR. TIPPECONNIE: So we know prices in those areas are good, too? MR. NELSON: You know, right now we've got computer printers. What are we always out of? Ink? MR. GRIFFIN: Cartridges. MR. NELSON: It's just so pricey. We're trying to get a network going to our lease copier equipment. And Travis -- where is Travis? He's working on it. Yeah, you know, we're budget conscious, we really are. And I'd like to offer this to the Comanche world, and I need your lobbying effort, gentlemen. But that's a big purchase. MR. ASEPERMY: It's a beginning. MR. NORMAN: Mr. Tippeconnie, Caddo Solutions has a book probably about this thick -- MR. TIPPECONNIE: I've seen this catalog. MR. NORMAN: -- of office supplies. So they definitely have a lot of other products that we can probably -- MR. TIPPECONNIE: Those, initially when you look at it, I know it's initial, but they're competitive in price, too, on all those other items? MR. NELSON: If you're buying bulk. If you keep buying like we have been, no. Okay. MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: We still want to compare, because some people get a better deal on this, some people have a better deal on that. MR. ASEPERMY: Mr. Chairman, do we need to make a motion to give them a blessing? MR. BURGESS: No. You're not looking for a motion or a resolution, just a informing us? MR. NELSON: A blessing. That's a big number, guys. MR. BURGESS: So the blessing is go forward, I would presume. We already see the savings. MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: That's smart business. MR. BURGESS: Eventually you're doing general office supplies, pens, erasers, note pads, ink? MR. NELSON: Yes. And once again, Mr. Chairman, please tell our Comanche world out there, save a little money. We're not going to be profiteers. You know, they're always up here anyway. You know, come save some money. MR. ASEPERMY: I think, Mr. Chairman, we have a consensus for the Tribal Administrator and Mr. Nauni to proceed with this. MR. BURGESS: By general consensus, we're going to approve. DANA ATTOCKNIE: I just want to say something real quick. I've ordered from Caddo Solutions before for my job. I haven't ordered bulk, but I have ordered general office supplies, and they do tend to be more expensive than Staples or Office Max. And they don't -- a lot of times don't provide next-day service. And they have an annex in Oklahoma City, and that's probably where they're storing the paper. So just a lot of the times -- they have stuff in Oklahoma City and in Colorado and somewhere else. So when you order supplies, if they have them in the City, then you get it next day. Otherwise, you got to wait for it to come from Colorado or somewhere else, so it takes a little bit more time than the other vendors. MR. BURGESS: That's where procurement is coming in. Because we're such a large group, we have over 220 employees with over 51 separate offices operating, either federal or current with tribal programs, we would feel that bulk purchasing. And this is where Mr. Nauni would, the procurement history, knows on average what we order every 30 days, 60 or 90 days. So the plan here is to have those average costs, average number of materials or items ready to go when we see that we would have the last 45 days of the quarter, or the last 65 days, and start ordering those materials that would be needed. And that's what you would call central purchasing, if we warehoused it. So all those items will be bought this bulk. It might save us a five cents to 10 cents on the pound when shipped or whatever. And that's the whole idea here, is that we're going to be ordering bulk, not for five pens or 25 pens. Instead of a box of pens, it will be a carton of pens and then disbursed to the offices. And I hope that's the way for us to be going, because central purchasing will reduce our costs. MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: Thanks for the comment, though. That's what I was getting at. Just because they're really good on paper doesn't mean across the board they're going to be the best solution. MS. ISAAC: So that's going to take into all the other places, like the CHRs, and all those offices? MR. BURGESS: We hope. Some offices might have different kind of binders, legal binders for ICW, Child Support Service and ICW. They might have separate kind of binders. That's where procurement comes in, to record and know the history of that and how often it has to be ordered. MS. ISAAC: And so will it come out of their budget or is it going to come out of offices supplies for -- MR. BURGESS: Offices supplies for each office, because that's what their budget includes from the program. The federal programming allows them to buy office supplies. MR. TIPPECONNIE: I would imagine some of those smaller places, they're not going to be buying bulk. I don't know how many buy in matters of bulk. So the comment made back in the back there, you know, I think that's probably true when you look at Caddo. It's higher priced if you have single kinds of items in small quantities. Because I've looked at their catalog, and it can be higher priced. And they have to ship some of those from somewhere else other than their warehouse. I have one more question, and I think we better move on. But will this be binding us by some kind of contract, or is this just a procurement kind of thing. MR. NAUNI: No contract. MR. NELSON: Just a big number, guys. MR. NAUNI: In fact, the reason why I think we decided it might be better for business is because we have to make this purchase up front in order to get the truckload discount MR. BURGESS: All right. Okay. That's understandable. Okay, gentlemen, they have our blessing? MR. TIPPECONNIE: For this part. MR. BURGESS: Item Number 2, new and old business, NICOA. Step forward. MS. TOYEKOYAH: My name is Sandra Toyekoyah, and I work for now what's called National Indian Council on Aging, and it's called Grandparents Raising Grandchildren. And what I'm looking is I've wanted to have -- see if I could get a list of the elders 55 or older so that I could just mail out information to them. Kind of information like -- these are the emergency numbers. United Way has already gathered this information, but I would just mail it out to the elders that are raising grandchildren. There's some other information like weatherization. Right now the Comanche County has gotten a whole lot of money to weatherize elders' homes, so I was just wanting to mail out some of these different kinds of information to our elders, and especially the ones who are raising grandchildren. Because I know, I've got seven of them, so I know any kind of help that I could get. And a lot of times I don't have the time to go out there and look for this help. Some churches might have a member who wants to give away a washer or dryer, and so they have that available. So all the time I'm looking for resources to contact our grandparents that are raising grandchildren. So that's what I was wanting, is a listing of names and addresses of elders 55 and older. And, you know, I don't even have to have the name. I can just have the address and just mail it out to Comanche Tribal Elder. So that's why I'm here this morning. MR. ASEPERMY: Mr. Chairman, I don't think, because of confidentiality, that Enrollment can provide this. I mean, this is a great program, but I don't know. Jim, confidentiality? We can't direct Enrollment to say give you names of people 55 and older? MR. BURGESS: Are you asking us to do that, or you want us to mail out this? MR. ASEPERMY: That's what her memo says. MS. TOYEKOYAH: I would like to have the names and addresses, so every time I have the information, I can mail it out. If they will let me know their phone number, then I can start calling them with the information I get. All the time I'm in the community looking for resources for our elders. MR. ASEPERMY: Sandra, what about providing this at Elders' Day on December the 18th? MS. TOYEKOYAH: Yes, I will have a table set up there. I'm going to the Veterans' dance today and I will have a table there. So I'm going to be putting up a table at a lot of places. MR. BURSON: Just some thoughts. It's one thing, you know, to have her where people sign up and provide that information to her voluntarily. It's another thing to direct your Enrollment Department to tell her about all of the 55-year old-, some of which may not care to receive any information. MR. BURGESS: You particularly are more interested in those people who reside in our area, too, correct? MS. TOYEKOYAH: Yes, it's Comanches only. MR. BURGESS: Now, do you have some of your brochures at the Enrollment office, have you taken out an ad in PIO, our newspaper? MS. TOYEKOYAH: I've already put an ad in there. I'm trying to keep one in there every month. I haven't put out any brochures. I've just only been on the job like two months now since the tribe -- since the tribe let me go. Raising seven grand children and a grandmother, and they let me go. MR. ASEPERMY: Have you got any to give out to our old folks today? I got mine. MS. TOYEKOYAH: I've got some here. Like I said, I am going to the Veterans' dance and I'll have a table up there. I'm setting up a table at a lot of places. MR. BURGESS: Do you need more of those printed that we could maybe cover the cost to print those for you? MS. TOYEKOYAH: Oh, yeah it costs 35 cents to print. MR. BURGESS: Go ahead and leave 25 or so with us and we'll print some for you. MS. CRAIG: Sandra, do you have a list of -- MS. TOYEKOYAH: I gave everything out to the Elders Council. These are those five. MR. BURGESS: We'll have the ladies make copies for you. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Give it to the TA and let the TA -- where is the TA? MR. BURGESS: Mr. Nelson? Sandra, go ahead and lay those on the TA's seat over there. Let him have the copies. Item Number 3, Jarvis, ladies and gentlemen, those of you who are -- we've got sandwiches and juice and snacks over there for those of you who need something, if your sugar is dropping or if you want to get sweet before you go home. MR. POAHWAY: Have we got a tech over here? MR. BURGESS: A tech? Our tech, he should be next door. MR. TIPPECONNIE: He was here a minute ago. MR. BURGESS: Do you have disk or -- MR. POAHWAY: No, I've got a-thumb drive. MR. BURGESS: Where did Willie go? MR. ASEPERMY: Richard, can you check in IT and see if that young man is there? MR. BURGESS: Is Bobbie Topaum here? MR. ASEPERMY: Who is Bobbie Topaum? MR. BURGESS: She helped write that one grant. She's Bobbie Tenequer. MR. TIPPECONNIE: She's a Tenequer. MR. POAHWAY: If I can have your attention. This proposal is on parks and recreation, and my primary interest is to try to get -- MR. BURGESS: Ladies and gentlemen, let's give Mr. Poahway your attention, please. MR. POAHWAY: My primary interest is to try to get this property set aside so we can use it for Comanche people, and for kids' camps or elderly camps, or just a retreat for a group of Comanches that wanted to go out. And maybe if the Shoshones came down, maybe they'd take them out and entertain them out there. And this property right here, that's the Jack Dodd purchase. It contains 320 acres. And as you can see, this part right here is all mountain. It goes all the way back around there. MR. ASEPERMY: Where is the house at? MR. POAHWAY: The house is right here, the access road, and then two barns down here and then the septic is down there. And what I put up here was Section A and B. These two areas right here, what we were looking at for camping. This one right here for children's camp camping, this one up here for a station for whoever was going to be in charge of that, of the grounds for that weekend or week or whatever. That would be where they would be staying, up there. And as you can see, A up there is the check in. There's a creek right here that comes down through. We'd have to build a bridge there and probably a bridge right there. But this road right here is accessible to the property, the entire property. It goes around back up in here, but it's accessible to the property. It needs some work. And I've got that in the total cost. I hit the wrong button, I guess. I don't know how to advance this. These are the typical cabins we were looking at to put down there. There's a choice of them. We were looking at A, B and C. And they're 10 by 22. They'll sleep six children or six adults, roughly $4,500 per building. And that's buying them here in town. I don't know what they are in Oklahoma City, because I didn't check in Oklahoma City. But there was a gentleman here in town that has these cabins, and we could put them out in that one little area, B, that I was talking about that we were looking at. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Are they insulated and all that? MR. POAHWAY: They can be, but you won't need it in the summertime. MR. TIPPECONNIE: But right now at 4500 they're not? MR. POAHWAY: No, this is just a basic building. MR. HENSON: What about utilities? MR. POAHWAY: We've got utilities out there on the property. We've got, I think, two transformers out on the other side of the creek where the water well is. And I'm sure they can expand from there, put up another transformer. We'd have to have a pole out in the middle of Camp B. But I've got a pole at the house, I've got lights. I've got quite a bit of stuff. Most of the construction stuff out there, the roads, the stuff like that, the bridges and stuff like that, I'm sure that with Capital Improvement or myself renting the equipment, we could probably build those roads, and whatever it takes to get to make it look real nice. MR. WHITEWOLF: Jarvis, that 10 by 22, that 10, is that a mistake, or is that 10 foot for real? MR. POAHWAY: No, the 10, it's for real. MR. WHITEWOLF: The kids will have to sleep standing up, won't they? MR. POAHWAY: No, actually, they need -- well, Lanny knows about the barracks that they use in most military situations. And they're probably 20, maybe anywhere from 18 to 20 feet wide. It only requires a bunk. Because they're going to put a sleeping bag in there or whatever. MS. TOYAHTY: It's on both sides. MR. POAHWAY: But I'm sure we can get at least six children in there. And if we were going to put adults in there, then we'd want to put -- divide it up or make it more accessible to adults. Okay. There's the total cost of the buildings, $33,000. That's the total cost. And then the construction costs, we're estimating about $100,000, and that's to build all the roads and get it ready and everything. And then I believe -- I believe that this thing could probably stand on its own if we went outside and let other people come in, other than just Comanches. I believe that we could rent it out and it could probably stand on its own, because it's a real nice area. And the wildlife refuge has offered to open a gate on the west side to give access to the wildlife for hiking. There's several lakes over there. It's just -- you know, if you really wanted to see it, I'd say, you know, get in your car and go down there and look at it. Spend the day down there looking at it. It's real nice. And we have a police officer down there renting a house out right now, and they could probably get a permission slip from the -- Mike Burgess or one of the CBC members, maybe they'll let you in to go out there and look at it. But it's a real nice area for our children, for our people. I mean, we bought it. Why don't we use it? That's what I'm saying. And just set it aside for whatever. We could have powwows out there, softball, you know. There's so much recreation that you can use out there. Then on the north side there -- go back to that, the first one. Okay. On the north side up here, you can do a lot of stuff. There's a fence that comes across here like this. No, actually the fence is up here. But it comes down, and there's so much stuff you can do with this area in here. You can run cattle, you can run horses. That was one of the things we were thinking about doing, was trying to put some horses down there so that people could ride horses out there. They wouldn't let you on the reservation with horses, but still you'd be able to ride horses out there. Okay, then go on to Number 4. That right there is the total cost of everything that we're -- I'm almost sure that's pretty close to what it would cost. Do you have -- to get everything ready. And then after that, like I say, I think the place will probably stand on its own, but it's going to take management. You know, I don't know who you would appoint as manager, but it would take management, advertisement and stuff like that to keep it going and to make it bigger than what it is. We don't want to get too big. We'd like to have a place for our children, our elders. They could go down and have church picnics down there. You could stay down there two or three days at a time, whatever. And that concludes my proposal for the parks and recreation. MR. ASEPERMY: Mr. Chairman, I know you and the Vice-Chairman, the rest of us have been out there, haven't we? MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: I haven't been there yet. MR. ASEPERMY: Okay. Clyde, you've been out there? MR. NARCOMEY: Yes, sir. MR. ASEPERMY: It is a beautiful site out there. It's a half a square mile large. I ran a Girl Scout camp west of Binger. It was 286 acres. We could house 300 Girl Scouts at one time. They lived in tents, they lived in large lodges. We had to have water, we had to have bathroom facilities, we had to have the help of Caddo Electric for lighting, Oscar, didn't we? MR. CODOPONY: We serve the Dodd property. MR. ASEPERMY: Yeah. And, you know, it would be -- you know, we bought this land with the idea that -- what's the name of that camp in Wichita Mountains that we send our kids to? MR. TIPPECONNIE: Y'shua. MR. ASEPERMY: Yeah, I wish we had our own. I would like to see something done with this when we do our budget review to set up the site. But, Jarvis, I think what we really need -- I know you throwed up a number of $133,000. Go visit the Black Beaver Boy Scout Camp, the Redlands Council Girl Scout Camp, see what they have. Because those are the needs that we'll need for our children and for our adults. Get an ideal of -- Mr. Whitewolf brought up six people in a 10 by 22. Well, the military allows you a 10 by 12 space. That's two people. So -- Then you've got bunks you've got to worry about. You've got a place to go to the bathroom, you got trails, you've got roads, you've got -- MR. BURGESS: Showers are very important. MR. ASEPERMY: Yeah, showers. We provided those things up there. I would say go to Black Beaver Boy Scout Camp west of Apache just to look at and maybe get some sort of ideal what it cost to house them, or even go up to Binger at Redlands Girl Scout Camp, or even to the camp in the Wichita Mountains. I would like to see this done eventually, Mr. Chairman. And we bought the land for that purpose and it is a beautiful pace. It's a nice retreat area. MR. BURGESS: Hang on, Bill. Darrell, you had a comment? MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: Yeah, that's just what we were discussing here. It needs to be developed a little bit more as far as plans go. MR. ASEPERMY: You know what? You want to kind of leave it natural, right, Jarvis? You don't want to take away from. MR. POAHWAY: The costs that I put down are very basic costs, because I was considering that with Capital Improvements that we could probably build this campground up to whatever the Comanche Nation expected of it. I can operate heavy equipment, and several things that I can do that would be a free thing for me. You know, all I need money for is to rent the equipment to do it with. There's a creek out there that needs a dam. And that will be a perfect little lake, you know, for our children to swim in. MR. BURGESS: Okay. Thank you. Hang right there, Jarvis. Bill, Mr. Voelker? MR. VOELKER: Do we allow hunting on the property, firearm hunting? MR. BURGESS: That's in our wildlife codes. Vern? MR. GRIFFIN: The CBC said no hunting right now. MR. VOELKER: I'm thinking that could be a place for free-flying eagles. MR. BURGESS: That could come in. Right now we're talking a subcommittee here for planning, development and financial. Yes, Beverly? MS. ISAAC: I'm with Jarvis about keeping it natural. These white people like to spend the night in a teepee, so the teepees could be out there. MR. ASEPERMY: That's a good idea. MR. POAHWAY: I was thinking if we had enough money, we could get six or seven teepees for primitive camping. That's in there. I mean, that's a must, to have Primitive camping. MR. ASEPERMY: I like the teepee idea. MR. POAHWAY: We could set up a teepee group. MR. ASEPERMY: That's $1,000 versus -- MR. POAHWAY: I did that out at the refuge and they really enjoyed that. MR. BURGESS: One of the ideas here is we're going to set up a subcommittee, going to be a maximum of five people. Someone who has grant writing experience, and someone who has areas of knowledge of working with youth. One of our law enforcement personnel who we know has worked with youth, probably, to get on here and get some ideas written up and drawn up, because the funding season, the grant season is around the corner. Come December through March and April, we're going to have a lot of possibilities to write grants to do this kind of thing, educational, social, fish and wildlife type things with youth, particularly youth who are -- I don't want to say incarcerated, but are probably in home, part of the DHS system who would want to be involved in this. So we need to have those kinds of thoughts and those ideas. About five people can sit on this committee. You can submit your name to me after the meeting here, or write it down now and pass it up to me. Pass it to the TA or Mr. Tippeconnie during the time frame here before next month. And, Jarvis, spearheading this, we expect you to make sure all the wood is cut, teepee poles are there. Stay involved. MR. POAHWAY: It will be done. MR. BURGESS: All right. Because, again, we need to find some funding for it. MR. WHITEWOLF: Talk about keeping it natural, that would be a perfect place for a living village. MR. BURGESS: True, tourism type. MR. WHITEWOLF: If you want to make money. MR. POAHWAY: Make it a rez. MR. BURGESS: Well, okay. One more question. MS. ISAAC: Somebody made the point let's don't do a sweat lodge. MR. GRIFFIN: We wouldn't know how to do a sweat lodge. MR. POAHWAY: All right, thank you. MR. BURGESS: Jarvis, in the meantime, you've got to get your committee, start working up a budget, some concrete plans to put in proposal format. MR. TIPPECONNIE: With this group once it is established. MR. POAHWAY: If you don't mind, like I say, I'd like to incorporate the Capital Improvement program into this thing to help me put this thing together, build, help me plan the budgeting and everything else. MR. BURGESS: You need to do this first and then talk about that money, capital improvement plan after that. We need to have a plan first, cost, time frame, and other sources of funding for staffing and training and materials. We want to network other program moneys, other financial, other nonprofit moneys like grants that we can get. There are some out there, we just have to have a plan in place, a time frame to do that plan. And we can submit it to Ford Foundation, Kellogg Foundation, other areas that want to bring out healthy kids, healthy programming, too. There's a lot of money out there. National Science Foundation is one of them. We can look at that, but we have to have a plan and cost factors first. MR. POAHWAY: Yeah, can I understand that. MR. ASEPERMY: Willie, is Lewis still the capital improvement guy. MR. BURGESS: Lewis is here. MR. ASEPERMY: Can you coordinate, or have Jarvis and Lewis -- MR. BURGESS: Could you get Lewis? He was just at the door frame. MR. ASEPERMY: Jarvis, can y'all get together and actually go on site? MR. POAHWAY: Yeah, I'm going to get with them Monday anyway and figure out things from there. I want you guys' blessing to do this. I don't want to just go there and say we're going to do this and then fall on our face. MR. BURGESS: Let's get the committee first. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Let's get the committee first. MR. ASEPERMY: We've already had, for example, you threw up these buildings, said they can sleep six, but they actually can sleep two. I like Beverly's idea with the teepees, instead of paying 5 or $6000 or whatever it was, a teepee with a pole runs about how much, Mike? MR. POAHWAY: About $500. MR. BURGESS: Let's get that committee formed. Beverly, do you want to be a part of it? MS. ISAAC: I'd volunteer, yes, I'd love to. MR. BURGESS: Well, thank you. MR. TIPPECONNIE: No, no pay. MR. BURGESS: All the fry bread you can eat. Mrs. Bobbie Topaum? She's not here. Item Number 5, Mr. Narcomey asked me to let y'all know they want to move it to the reconvened meeting. MR. TIPPECONNIE: On the 23rd? MR. BURGESS: On the 23rd. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Okay. Now we're into executive session. MR. BURGESS: Well, we can't. We have got all the charitable funds to get through. Well, we've got people sitting here. We told them 11:45. MR. ASEPERMY: I'll wait to till 1:00. Mr. Chairman, I do have a request. Mr. Nelson, next month, we got this beautiful table up here and it's got a place for mics. MR. NELSON: Yes, sir. MR. ASEPERMY: Can you make that happen? MR. NELSON: Yes, sir. MR. ASEPERMY: Because I was standing back there, and unless you got a -- MR. GRIFFIN: Sonic ear. MR. ASEPERMY: If you're like me, with shoddy ears, I can't hear. MR. NELSON: Yes, sir. MR. ASEPERMY: Can you set these up with mics? And also can you provide a hand mic for the audience when they have a question? MR. NELSON: Wow. MR. ASEPERMY: Starting next month, can you do that? MR. NELSON: Sure. MR. ASEPERMY: Can you make it happen? MR. NELSON: Sure. I can make that happen, sure. MR. ASEPERMY: Thank you, Willie. MR. NELSON: So who's going to be Jerry Springer? MR. ASEPERMY: You can be. MR. BURGESS: All right. Ladies and gentlemen, we're coming to Item VII on our agenda, executive session. This is where those of you who need a snack or a drink and a cigarette. Shall we take 10 minutes? MR. ASEPERMY: Do you need a motion for that? MS. AITSON: Mike, before you go into executive session, I'd like to bring something up. MR. BURGESS: All right. Hold on, ladies and gentlemen, we're going to have this statement. Then we'll go into a 10-minute break and come back for executive session. MS. AITSON: I'm going have to leave in a little bit. On this old and new business, I have a concern with Deborah Yates down at the child offices, Child Welfare Offices down in Lawton. It seems to me like y'all have chosen someone, put her in the office there, and she's not even a Comanche member. And she talked down to the workers down there, and she has already lost out of her program about two or three girls that have resigned due to the fact that she talks ugly to them, she uses profanity, and they don't want to put up with that. And she's not a member of the tribe. So I think this needs to be looked into. And so, you know, she worked up in Osage Country, and I have already checked with my children up in Osage County where she cannot get a job with that tribe because of the attitude she has and the way she is. And why she came way down here, because she can't get hired by her own people. But you put her in that capacity and I think you need to take care of it. Thank you. MR. BURGESS: All right. Thank you. MR. NELSON: Mr. Chairman, Stan, who helped us get the $250,000 grant. You know, we had an infrastructure meeting, sir, you and I, before you went to see President Obama. What we would like to do, if you do not mind, just during this break is to show you where we're at implementing this grant. We do have a Comanche member here, Mr. Devine, even though he's here on sad premise because of a loss in his family, because he lives out of state, I would hope you guys would entertain us, let us show you where we're at with this sewer system and how we're implementing this grant. I think you skipped over us. MR. BURGESS: Did we? No, because you have it ECCI? MR. NELSON: Yes. MR. BURGESS: Item Number 6 in executive session. MR. NELSON: We're in executive? MR. BURGESS: Yes. I think you filled it out. MR. NELSON: No, not me. MR. BURGESS: You want us to move you out and then our smokers can take a break? I'll sit here. MR. NELSON: It don't need to be -- MR. BURGESS: I'll sit here. I know about the program. MR. NELSON: You guys come forward. We'll go ahead and run this. Those of you who need a cigarette break or snack or drink, help yourself. The CBC has heard most of this, but come forward. We're going to have a proposal from ECCI. It's a proposal to do the wastewater treatment alternative for the Comanche Nation here, to help move us away from our -- what are they called? MR. ASEPERMY: Lagoons. MR. BURGESS: Our lagoons. All right, so at this time, toilet, Mr. Nelson. Mr. McCarthy, I'm going to turn it over to you all. Presentation here with our visitors. MR. NELSON: You're on, Lewis. MR. MCCARTHY: For about the past year, we've been working with ECCI Engineering. These are the gentlemen that worked with me to help us do the grants for the windmills. Well, the past several years I've done some due diligence. They've worked with some previous tribes up north. I went on site to their facilities to look at their sewer systems. I've talked with their tribal administrator, I've talked with the people that actually work there. They said these people quoted them a million dollars to do the sewer system. After the sewer system was put in, the total cost was about 850,000. The $150,000 check came back to the tribe. So what we were looking at is we know that all the new construction, all the new buildings are coming about. We were waiting for our reimbursements. That's why we're approaching it now, the time has come in. We're working on the stakes and everything, getting the bids in, getting the approval. We're looking at, from the date of the resolution being passed, for this wastewater sewer system to be 12 months in operation. Now, our existing capacity has the existing buildings of the admin building, finance building, gymnasium, higher education building, diabetes, food distribution and maintenance. We also have PIO, transportation, HIP and our CIP building. We have put into this new sewer system 100 percent capacity building extra. That way, if we were to go ahead and double every building here, it would be fine with the new sewer. What we are also looking at to propose, is if the Housing Authority wants to put it money to this project for Maddische, we could actually loop those 24 homes into our system, too. Now, if the Housing Authority decides not to put any money into the system, we will be able to do other planned expansions. Like the new tribal complex, that's okay. The multi use building. We even talked about a travel plaza on the Narcomey property. We even talked about relocating the casino maybe. We even looked at maybe the possibility of doing a 50-room hotel. If Maddische is not done, we'll be able to do that no problem. If we decide to put Maddische on first, the capability is -- We have to have this on trust land. We're tapped out on trust land. So we're going to be going with the eight-pod system. We can put growth with the eight pods, no problem. But what we're going to start on next month is we're going to start the process to try to put this land into trust that we need for the additional growth, if we have to have it. Not only just for the sewer system, but so all of our buildings on this side will be in trust status. MR. HENSON: Lewis, who is paying the sewer system for Maddische now? MR. MCCARTHY: They actually did a lagoon system. MR. ASEPERMY: Is the lagoon system broke? MR. MCCARTHY: Actually, the lagoon system, the way it flows uphill and backs up, usually the first three homes in Maddische back up once or twice a year. MR. ASEPERMY: Is that why our gymnasium backs up, also? MR. NELSON: Yes, Mr. Chairman and CBC, back in the day when I came back from college and I worked for Chairman Cox, I told him, sir -- the Code Talkers that were alive at that time said kwitapu never rolls uphill. That's been our case 32 years now. So that's our case. MR. ASEPERMY: So what does it cost to maintain the lagoon? MR. NELSON: Housing here -- well, anybody from Housing here? MR. BURGESS: No, no, they're gone. MR. NELSON: We've got four homes up there usually that back up a foot. Our gym backs up. It's over capacity and we're an EPA nightmare. We are. That lagoon is beyond -- MR. GRIFFIN: It's been repaired. MR. POAHWAY: Why don't you go to aerobic? MR. MCCARTHY: Well, what we're going to show here is the three costs associated. We have three different types of lagoon systems that we're looking at, and we're going to show which one would be the cheapest. Because right now, our daily flow is around 12,000 gallons. Our future expansion, like I said, if we put in 100 percent capacity, which is 12,000, so we're looking at about a 24,000- gallon system. Our Alternative 1 would be a treatment on site with no off-site discharge, would be using currently around one acre of land, within 12 months it would be in operation, 24,000- gallon capacity at 739,000. Alternative 2 would be treatment on site with off site permits to discharge, 19 months in operation, same 24,000-gallon capacity at 972,000. Alternative 3 would be to construct a whole new lagoon system, which would take around 19 months, also be 24,000 gallon. You're looking at around 944,000. So Alternative 1 would be the cheapest, would be to have our system put up here, have the discharge on trust land, and it would actually come in about $140,000 cheaper. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Is it essential to have it on trust land. MR. MCCARTHY: Yes. So that way we don't have to work with DEQ requirements. Our EPA would be the ones that would be able to give us our own requirements, and we'd be working with them. MR. HENSON: Is there any use for that wastewater? Is there anywhere we could use that? MR. JORGENSEN: You're going to use it. It's going to be in a one-acre field, injected underground, and the field will grow something real fast. MR. ASEPERMY: So currently our daily flow is 12,000 gallons, so we're be doubling the capacity for future expansions? MR. NELSON: I was working on the plumbing bill, Mr. Chairman and Mr. Asepermy, and I guarantee you we paid, over a 32-year period, probably about 100,000. MR. ASEPERMY: What is our sewer and our -- what is our bill, generally, per month? MR. NELSON: Well, since we're going to there, you know, if you throw in the plumbing bills -- There was one year 10 years ago where everything was backing up. You know, it's been different administrations. We're on a 10-year course for disaster. It's a 32-year old system. It should have never been built on that actual plateau, never. MR. ASEPERMY: What I'm asking you, in the last six months since you've been here, what has our bill been per month? MR. NELSON: Louis, the last time we did the work over here to do the ventilation for the gym, how much did that come up to? MR. MCCARTHY: It was about 5,000. MR. ASEPERMY: $5,000. So we can say that approximately 60,000 per year, possibly? Okay. And -- MR. NELSON: And when we have big things like the Comanche Nation Fair, excess use, I mean, that's what causes it. You know, we just can't have no big events. No capacity for more restrooms. MR. BURGESS: And then with our lagoons, aren't they needing to be cleaned out? MR. MCCARTHY: Yes. We actually have our lagoons -- we're actually going to fill them in. So that way, after a certain amount of time, we'll be able to build on top of them if we need to. MR. NELSON: That dirt would actually come from the actual big system of the treatment -- the Number 1, Alternative 1. MR. BURGESS: My question, then, is, if we did that over here where you have it marked dry irrigation field, nothing could be built on that area? MR. JORGENSEN: Correct. MR. BURGESS: Does that system -- the way you've got it located would be on a down slope. Does that system have to be on a down slope? MR. JORGENSEN: The treatment plant is actually over by the interstate. MR. BURGESS: That's what I mean, that's the down slope. MR. JORGENSEN: It doesn't have to be a down slope, but it's put over there because the gravity that you have would then go to that and would be cheap to run. The system for the 12,000- gallon flow includes 6,000 gallons a day for the housing development. So if you take that out, the system that you're looking at would be 300 percent capacity growth. MR. BURGESS: Okay. If we didn't put the housing connected to it, what's the cost going to be? MR. JORGENSEN: We didn't do it that way, and I don't have that cost. It would be -- we can build a smaller system, but it's not a linear cost. These systems have -- they're very low maintenance, they're very unobtrusive. I've got pictures of other systems, if you guys would like to look at them, what I thought you might want to look at. They're all systems we helped build. MR. ASEPERMY: Mike, I'm looking at the location. I guess it's that open area east of -- MR. MCCARTHY: East of the lagoon. MR. ASEPERMY: Right. Do you know if we had any plans to build something over there? MR. BURGESS: That's what I'm wondering. If we did something, the only thing I can think of, is we need to put in a new maintenance facility this way. Where all of these small buildings sit, we should just put in one main building going north, north-south, and it may not touch that area. MR. ASEPERMY: Willie and Mr. Chairman, I'm looking at the proposed new site. You're saying that -- and it is close to maintenance. What about that east of food distribution? Does that still fit? MR. NELSON: Okay. We're starting to get out of trust land there. MR. JORGENSEN: We were specifically limited by trust. MR. ASEPERMY: Where does our boundary end by food distribution on the north end? MR. GRIFFIN: The side you're looking at. MR. NELSON: The lagoon is it. That's our boundary marker. MR. BURGESS: There is a fence there? MR. ASEPERMY: Is there another place to place this treatment system in the event we do want to expand our maintenance down the road? Is there another site? MR. NELSON: No, not on trust land. MR. MCCARTHY: We get that land put into trust. MR. JORGENSEN: These systems are modular, and you buy the components and they're already designed and created to fit your needs, and you can actually remove them and place them in another location. MR. BURGESS: Because, see, what could happen -- the way the map is drawn, the length of it goes north-south. You can always change that length to go east-west, and it gives us more room to expand on this side. MR. ASEPERMY: Can that be moved east-west, like the Chairman recommended, or said? MR. JORGENSEN: Well, there's a -- this shaded area here -- MR. ASEPERMY: That will run into the interstate, Mike. MR. JORGENSEN: -- that's a utility easement. MR. BURGESS: No, from where you're at, go west. MR. JORGENSEN: This direction? MR. BURGESS: Yes. MR. JORGENSEN: You can't build it. You have to leave the lagoons there until you build it. MR. BURGESS: For how long? MR. JORGENSEN: Until you're confident with the success with the new system. MR. BURGESS: That's what I'm asking you, how long? MR. JORGENSEN: Probably two weeks, we'll build in 60 days, just in case. MR. BURGESS: Because you've got this designed to use Maddische housing. If we didn't use Maddische housing, would you need the full acre the way it is right now? MR. JORGENSEN: No. If you get additional trust land, you can put in more filtration. We were specifically limited by the boundaries of the trust property. MR. BURGESS: If we were to do that and wanted to take more filtration across the road underneath the road, we could do that? MR. JORGENSEN: You could do that. MR. BURGESS: Because we could follow that fence line underneath the road and that fence line could be utilized. MR. JORGENSEN: You would have to bring in a contractor, and actually dig a deep hole, put him down in it, have him study the dirt and figure out the absorption capacity. MR. BURGESS: You mean by just doing a core drill, don't you? MR. JORGENSEN: No, I mean put him in a hole. You actually -- he looks at it, too. We already dug one hole, he's already been out here. We're going to bring back -- if you approve this, we'll bring him back on Thursday and dig two more holes to make sure we know exactly what we're doing, because -- MR. ASEPERMY: Lewis and Willie, what about where the track is? MR. JORGENSEN: They wouldn't let me use that. MR. MCCARTHY: That's not trust. MR. NELSON: It's not trust. MR. GRIFFIN: The reason why you would keep it on trust is because you don't get the state EPA and DEQ involved. MR. HENSON: Is there any other uses you can use for the wastewater? MR. JORGENSEN: Not very easily. It's not -- you can spray it. But if you spray it off the trust property, it will require a permit from DEQ and there will be a six-month delay. MR. BURGESS: What is it? Is it going to raise any kind of crop? Is it just grass? MR. JORGENSEN: Only if you plant something on it. MR. BURGESS: I'm going to ask you, then. The point is, is it going to be good enough to raise feed, cattle, horses? MR. JORGENSEN: Yes. The contaminants that remain after the treatment, it's a very clean treatment process. This same equipment was used by the Audubon Society in their headquarters in California. And they were the first platinum Green building under the Green Building program. And this is the same process. And we've used it multiple places. It's excellent. And the contaminants are nitrates, and phosphorous is left over, and those are nutrition for whatever you grow. The waste will be injected about a foot under the ground, and it's multiple zones. And you pump it. It's just the water. The solid accumulates in big primary tanks that eventually have to be emptied, but that's not frequently. It's a matter of every few years. And the system pumps water up one zone until it's absorbed enough water, and then it shuts off, that material drains back into the plant. What's left over is retreated more and it moves to the next zone, and then pumps the effluent into that zone, and then there's a third zone. MR. BURGESS: So who cleans the system out every few years? MR. JORGENSEN: A septic tank company, like you have your septic tanks cleaned out. MR. TIPPECONNIE: They pump it and it's disposed that way. MR. JORGENSEN: Just the solid. There's not much solid in the waste. Most of the material that you flush is the water that comes in -- MR. BURGESS: I see that you had it demarcated with a -- well, I'm saying on your executive summary here. You're talking about 12 months operational, maximum wastewater treatment, no off-site discharge. And then you have Alternative 2 with off-site permitted discharge, it costs more, scheduled 19 months. And then Alternative 3, construct a wastewater lagoon system, but we're not talking about that. MR. JORGENSEN: We looked at all three of those, and we have the detailed documents and the detailed schedule information on all three of those. The last time I was here, you hired us to do this and to help you with the DOE grant, and this is the report back to you as your engineers. We don't sell any of this equipment. We'd only represent the nation. We would prepare the final designs and specifications and bid this, and bring back the bids so you could recruit. And then we would manage it being constructed to make sure it's built right. And whatever money we save under our estimate, would never -- would never leave the nation. MR. BURGESS: Are you saying that this is going to be built totally with grant funds? MR. JORGENSEN: No. MR. BURGESS: Or we have to put some money into it? MR. JORGENSEN: We didn't look at the funding. MR. BURGESS: And this waste water operator licensing, is that one of our current employees that would be trained in this? MR. JORGENSEN: I don't know. I don't think you have a current employee that does that, and I don't think -- since it's your nation, you'll decide, you get to decide that. We recommend they be a licensed person. MR. BURGESS: Would it have to be an engineer of some type, experience, training? MR. JORGENSEN: No. MR. NELSON: Stan, isn't it like flipping switches? MR. JORGENSEN: The system takes very little maintenance. MR. BURGESS: Let's don't make it that simple. Anybody can flip the wrong switch. MR. JORGENSEN: We built a 50,000-gallon-a-day system for the Eastern Shawnee. It's been in operation eight months. They've had one maintenance call. It was a half- hour adjustment with a screw driver controlled by a computer system that you can hook up to your EPA offices that they can then monitor from their computer. Everything's pretty much automatic. It works on 110 volts. It doesn't use much power. It's all small pumps, highly efficient. MR. TIPPECONNIE: These are all modules. Are these like boxes, so you can put them flat with the ground or you can have them elevated. Like the Shawnee is flat, and then there's others that are up above. MR. JORGENSEN: You can choose that. We've developed cost estimates to do it the most effective way, and there are 20 different things we can look at with your professionals to try to make sure that it still works, but it's cheaper. You can look at those individually. MR. BURGESS: Lewis, you said something about a grant. Is that a possibility here? MR. MCCARTHY: We talked about that grant and we looked into it, but it's not feasible for infrastructure at this time with us. Because we were looking to go with ICBG, and that's -- we're not going to be capable of ICBG probably until next year. MR. BURGESS: How quickly could you get engineering specs and drawings on that, right now? MR. JORGENSEN: Sixty days. MR. TIPPECONNIE: We have to have a plan ready. MR. JORGENSEN: I mean, you need detailed specifications, equipment, and detailed drawings for the contractors. I brought examples of those from another project, an example of a contract that we used, which are fairly acceptable, normally accepted engineering documents. And when the contract is small, the specifications are much larger. The equipment list will be specific to the equipment that you want to buy. We'll make everybody bid on the same equipment so we don't get a Chevrolet versus a Cadillac. It will all be the same. And then we also have designs that are specific to the facility that include the details of how you're going to connect each piece. MR. BURGESS: Would you -- how much problem, how much cost, how much time if you could do it in less than 60 days? MR. JORGENSEN: We can probably do it in less than 60 days. My challenge with that is Thanksgiving and Christmas is in that period, too, and I don't want to do a poor job. MR. ASEPERMY: Are you thinking about putting it on the budget, a line item? MR. NELSON: Robert, remember they were talking about that actual funding, setting it up? You might want to share that? MR. JORGENSEN: If you're interested in saving time, there are multiple things we could do to save time on the schedule. The thing that would save the most time is if we went ahead and we could negotiate the contract with a general and a vendor, and use ones we've used before. And these are people that we know have performed. It will save you 60 days off your schedule. But we prepared it to get three bids, because that's what we thought you would want to do. MR. BURGESS: Yes. MR. JORGENSEN: That takes us time to do that. MR. BURGESS: Norman, if we were to do something like that, the thinking here is that we would use ARA funds. We have to have designs, specs, EPA questions, all of that stuff, environmental's done, and ready with the package, if we went for ARA funds, by January 1. On the plus side here, they may extend it beyond January 1. They're talking about -- this was just talk, I believe. I don't know if you've read it, Jim. They may go into next year to extend for those tribes who are -- they now realize the time lines and the datelines are real tight for the engineers' specifications and drawings where everybody can get ready by January 1 because of these holidays. So they may extend January 1 into March 1 or April 1 for more ARA funds. That's why I'm asking these questions. The projects we have, we wanted to do bonds on them as opposed to using our money. Because our money is too small to do the projects we want to do, the travel plaza, extension of the facilities here. And infrastructure, even the road down there on the south side of the casino, that's all part of ARA, because that's infrastructure and we can do that. Any one of our buildings can be infrastructure, other than the casinos. So that's why I'm asking these questions, guys, if we'd have to get these ready within 60 days, if possible. If it's not possible, the hope would be that we can go into April 1 with all this material and put some bonds out on the street. We've been encouraged by the president, through NCAI and through this last meeting, to look forward to the extension of these moneys to tribal nations. MR. ASEPERMY: Mr. Chairman, I wouldn't be concerned about the travel plaza. That project has been tasked to Comanche Enterprises, Inc. They have their own money. We're talking about possible governmental money. We all know that there is a need. What we're trying to find out is the cost. And is this the only folks that y'all solicited? MR. MCCARTHY: Actually, yes. After we talked with them and I went up and checked out the other tribes, they're the only ones that we've talked with. MR. ASEPERMY: Well, I would like to talk to at least one, and preferably two other companies that do what you do. MR. JORGENSEN: That'd be engineering. We just do the engineering. We're just serving at your -- we're working for the nation, just like your accountant or your attorney. We're not trying to sell you this system. MR. BURGESS: See, he's already talked to three different groups. MR. ASEPERMY: Oh, he has? MR. NELSON: And keep in mind, Lanny, through Stan's efforts, Lewis, me, everybody involved here, that's where we got 250,000. That's the grant. MR. ASEPERMY: If this is maintained properly, what is our life expectancy? MR. JORGENSEN: Twenty years. MR. NELSON: The last time I looked in the records I do have, that one year they did like $60,000 worth of work, and that was in the '90s. I mean, and it was the admin building, and they had -- I mean, it just -- it's ready to go. I don't want it to go. MR. ASEPERMY: Mr. Chairman, because of -- you know, I don't know how stuff like this works, we'll consent to whatever you folks do. MR. BURGESS: We'll have to refer to our procurement policy. This is almost sole sourcing. But if we use them as a company rep under our procurement, and they secure the required bids for all of the building and construction, that's where as a sole source company rep is what they are. We hire them to be a company rep. MR. TIPPECONNIE: They're consulting, consulting for the tribe. MR. NAUNI: One of the things that we have here, and I have got specs from Robert, which they were instituted in their overall specs. So, you know, we would be in compliance there. I like the fact that basically all phases, they would look to other companies to bid on the projects. And so, you know, basically what you would be just hiring them to oversee the project. And so, you know, I think that -- MR. BURGESS: You're a company rep, that's what you would be? MR. JORGENSEN: We'd be the engineers to write the specs, come out and verify they built it right, and we'll be just working for the tribe. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Tribal rep. MR. NAUNI: And I understand, is there a grant already acquired? MR. MCCARTHY: No, no, that's why we were going after ICBG money for this. MR. BURGESS: That's why we're talking about the ARA funds for any other building that we want to do or any other infrastructure development. Let's say we want to do something to the south there, we should plan on laying lines and just have them laid for electrical, for telephone, for cable. Just have them laid, the two areas. That can be part of this, what that cost would be. We need to come up with these plans. In the planning session, we'll talk about doing that. The problem is selling the ARA funds. We'd need somebody to carry it for us, Mr. Attorneys. Somebody in the house that would help us sell the bonds. MR. TIPPECONNIE: That's another predicament they have, the bond sales. MR. BURGESS: So while we need it, then we have to have that planning session where we're going to pay for it from. MR. NELSON: We could invite Jeff Houser ever. MR. ASEPERMY: Well, I'd like to -- MR. HENSON: We can always take some of Vern's funds. MR. ASEPERMY: -- instead of being molasses in the winter, I'd like to be molasses in the summer, maybe move a little bit faster than I do on some things. I think this is important. I think we have a broke system. Obviously, Mike, you know the back up, the problems of 32 years. I'd like to get moving on this as soon as possible, if we can figure out how the funding will happen. MR. JORGENSEN: We've got a line item in there for developing the planning specs. You could move forward with just that and we can get those developed quickly. We presented the whole budget so you didn't enter into something without recognizing the total cost in the end. The cost for the stuff we do in this is not a big part of the whole thing. We could fit into whatever program you guys decide to pursue. Does that make sense? MR. ASEPERMY: I just have one other question. Mr. Nelson and Mr. Nauni and Mr. McCarthy, are you satisfied with ECCI's sewer system? MR. MCCARTHY: Yes, with the Alternative 1. I think that Alternative 1 is the best. And like I said, I went to the other tribes they worked with and checked out their work, and they were real positive about their work. And showed that within the time periods specified and with the money specified, they did do what they said they would do. MR. ASEPERMY: So you're saying, and Mr. Nauni, and I know Willie, Number 1? MR. NELSON: There's two companies out of Dallas -- MR. ASEPERMY: No, Number 1? You've got three different -- MR. NELSON: Yeah, Number 1. The meeting we had yesterday, I felt pretty comfortable. All I want to say is there's two companies in Dallas that really burned about 10 tribes here in situations like this. So, you know, talking with the Eastern Shawnees -- you know, doing a case study on this, they're bona fide. Would I throw the name out there? I don't know, Stan, I think I will. MR. BURGESS: You said you have some dollar figures for us to look at? MR. JORGENSEN: I've got more stuff than you would ever want. MR. BURGESS: You sound like a fed. MR. MCCARTHY: We have a time line for Alternative 1 to where CBC approves, it's all in your packet about how we move on with the detailed designs, the permits, the bids. After the bids are received back, CBC approval, the equipment and construction, and then final completion. MR. JORGENSEN: The actual individual costs we've got with us, too, and we can answer questions on that. The important part is that we work with tribal organizations, and we're used to working with organizations who come in and say we can do this for $900,000, and then they build you a system that costs you 7 and they keep 2. Okay? We're trying to get Native American organizations to do it in the way that businesses do it in the United States. We work for mostly businesses. I have 18 employees, we've been in business 16 years. We're TERO approved. But we just started working with Native American tribes in the last two years. It's new to us still. Normally we bring the cost estimate and then implement the project after their board's approved the budget, and we manage the project to achieve their goals. We don't get a markup on equipment, we're not selling equipment, we're not representing anybody except you. MR. BURGESS: So you would have, in a sense, essentially you're going to be our employee? MR. JORGENSEN: We'll be your engineers, just like your attorneys or your -- MR. TIPPECONNIE: You're our consulting engineers? MR. JORGENSEN: We work for you. MR. BURGESS: So then at that point in time, do you have a budget? Would you have a budget that you want us to talk to you -- MR. JORGENSEN: Yes, it's in there. MR. BURGESS: So you're written into this budget for either 1, 2 or 3? You written in there somewhere? MR. JORGENSEN: Yes. MR. ASEPERMY: Their recommendation was 1, Mike. MR. JORGENSEN: Right now we're working with you without contracts or anything. You can fire us anytime we do something bad. We like working that way. We're not seeking a large written contract. MR. TIPPECONNIE: It's got items, as an example right here, the prep bid package? MR. JORGENSEN: Yes. MR. TIPPECONNIE: That's 29,000? MR. JORGENSEN: Yes. MR. TIPPECONNIE: So are those some of the initial things you would be doing? MR. JORGENSEN: The first thing we'd do would be the detail. The first thing is the detailed design. And then after you guys say that's okay, or whoever you designate, then we do the bid package, release the bids, you'll have the bids come into us or you, whichever you want. We work for you. We'll evaluate the bids, we'll make sure everybody's got their bond in place, and bring back a recommendation and rank them according to who we think is the best deal both on cost and who they are. We will probably recommend -- MR. ASEPERMY: You don't have a contract with us right now, do you? MR. JORGENSEN: No, we're working for you on two projects, and both of those projects are, by e-mail, approval of scope and -- MR. ASEPERMY: Just checking. MR. BURGESS: Because we will have to have a contract, since you would be our -- a consultancy contract-type thing as our rep, engineering rep for us. MR. JORGENSEN: If you want a contract, we'll have a contract. MR. NELSON: Mr. Chairman, I was just talking to Burson. He has a few concerns. MR. BURSON: Yeah, I understand you've got some trust and no man's land issues, possibly in this same area. And what you need to be sure you have is your land documents, a good survey. Have you been supplied a good survey of the actual boundaries? MR. JORGENSEN: You mean a survey of the trust land? MR. NELSON: No, sir, it's -- it's our baby. Oscar Codopony shot it to us straight. You know, it's really ambiguous, it really is. MR. TIPPECONNIE: There's a question, just as Jim said, on some status of that on the upper end there. MR. BURSON: So you wouldn't commit trespass, you want to be sure to have the boundaries of where you know you can build on. MR. BURGESS: Right. Now, do we need to get the Bureau involved or do we do our own? They'll eventually need it, but do we wait for them to do it or do we do it? MR. BURSON: You're not required to use Bureau surveyors until you -- like when you do a purchase. MR. TIPPECONNIE: We can expedite it if we use our own. MR. BURSON: So if you just want to build on it, you can get your own surveyor. MR. JORGENSEN: We've been using the fence. MR. BURSON: Fence lines are sometimes a good indication of what's not in dispute. And they do have a tendency to become settled after time. How long has the fence been up? Depending on how long the fence has been up. MR. TIPPECONNIE: We really need it surveyed. MR. BURSON: Concurrent with any kind of design or immediately preceding a design request, you should identify with certainty the land boundaries where you can actually site one of these things. MR. BURGESS: Because before we can even make a commitment to even doing all that, because of budget constraints, we have to have a planning meeting. Know our budget, know where it's going to come from, and plan that out before we can start doing that. Currently we're going to reconvene on the 23rd, on the 24th we're going to be busy almost all day, or we can call it quits. On Wednesday, we plan to work a half day maybe. The 20th, we've got a meeting with Enterprises and Finley & Cook. Monday the 16th through the 19th, folks are out of the office. Back to the next week, the 9th through the 13th, there's a meeting with the Election Board on the 9th, and Tuesday the 10th. Anybody, what do you got on the 10th? Wednesday's a holiday. MR. JORGENSEN: I might suggest if you're going to try for federal funding, and you think you need the specs and the designs up front -- MR. BURGESS: We would. MR. JORGENSEN: -- we could move forward with that part. MR. BURGESS: You could move forward, and then we have to settle the question of the land boundaries and titles. I don't know if we can get that done in 60 days. MR. HENSON: No. MR. BURGESS: But a nominal -- I mean, if this project is going to run us a million dollars, I don't know that we want to do bonds. It's not convenient to do bonds. MR. ASEPERMY: Three-quarters of a million, a lot of difference. MR. BURGESS: So what I'm talking about is trying to get a lot of projects packaged that the bonds would help us do all that. We can't even get a planning meeting together because we're booked up. The only thing I see is half a day Wednesday the 25th. MR. ASEPERMY: What about having it -- we're meeting with the Election Board on what day? MR. BURGESS: Monday the 9th. MR. BURSON: Actually, they don't -- they're not ready to meet with you. That was supposed to go over the ordinance. And we met the other day, and they indicated to me that they were going to contact you, they could go without meeting with you this coming Monday, because they need to work on the ordinance. MR. ASEPERMY: It would have been nice if their chairman would have informed us of that. MR. BURSON: He mentioned it, but it was very low volume. You may not have heard it. MR. TIPPECONNIE: He said he had to postpone. MR. ASEPERMY: So no Election Board meeting? MR. BURGESS: Possibly. We'll find that out Monday. If so, then we could meet on the 9th. Who's gone? MR. ASEPERMY: Wait, when are you leaving, Clyde? MR. NARCOMEY: I'm leaving the 15th, Darrell's leaving the 16th. MR. ASEPERMY: Let's do it the 9th at 3 o'clock. MR. BURGESS: Heck, no, 1 o'clock. What's on your agenda at 1 o'clock, Mr. Nelson? MR. NELSON: What date, sir? MR. BURGESS: The 9th. MR. NELSON: Nothing. MR. HENSON: I'm going to be out of town all next week. MR. ASEPERMY: As long as we have a quorum on this one. MR. BURGESS: We don't need a quorum to plan. MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: 1:00 p.m.? MR. NELSON: One o'clock. MR. BURGESS: Monday the 9th at 1 o'clock, planning session. This is our budgets. This is projects, costs. Remember the meeting we had two weeks ago? Priorities. MR. ASEPERMY: Do we need these folks here, Mike? MR. BURGESS: Actually, no, it's just us, deciding our budget. MR. ASEPERMY: Willie, we need you, Lewis, and do we need Norman? MR. NELSON: Yeah. MR. BURGESS: What we're going to do is just look at our budgets and set the priorities, because we know -- MR. TIPPECONNIE: That's what we have to do. It's a priority. MR. ASEPERMY: Right here, Mike? New conference room? MR. BURGESS: Let's see what we got. Either this one or the old conference room. Right now we'll ask for this one. Mr. Nelson, will you make that happen? MR. NELSON: Yes, sir. Now, Mr. Devine. MR. BURGESS: Now, is he in open? Is this a personal thing? MR. NELSON: It coincides with the grant. MR. MCCARTHY: It coincides with the engineers. Since Mr. Devine was here and with ECCI being here -- Mr. Devine is going to be helping us with our energy audit, but the energy audit is actually going to be done by ECCI as part of the new grant. And Mr. Devine is going to be working with us on some of the smaller windmills here with the nation. So we would like just to introduce that Mr. Devine will be working with ECCI and myself to help me facilitate the grants, for the small windmills and for the bigger turbines. Once we get to a certain point, then we're going to be looking at approaching the CBC and pushing that over to Economic Development on the bigger side for the windmills, once all the data is there. MR. BURGESS: Okay. Let me ask this question here. We've got him here. This is John Devine/Casino Proposal. MR. DEVINE: That's a different subject. I just happened to be in the neighborhood. The other day my sister passed away and I was just in the neighborhood. I talked to Mr. McCarthy about the energy conservation products that we have. We've already submitted a proposal to provide some roofing material that's energy-saving material. In addition, we also have another product that will guarantee a 20 percent electric bill savings, which he's also interested in. That kind of works hand in hand with ECCI. In addition, we have vertical axis wind turbines. I'd like to hand this out, if you're interested. We have small units, we have large units. These are vertical axis wind turbines. They start at a lower wind speed than conventional turbines, so they're more suited for other areas than urban. MR. HENSON: Do you have the life span on that? MR. DEVINE: Twenty years or more. MR. HENSON: And the cost of one? MR. DEVINE: Depends on the size that you need. And that's why we're looking, waiting for the data from ECCI to see what your electric load is. We recommend, once we have the electric load data, it's feasible to reduce your energy cost than to try to cover it with wind turbines by about one-fifth, so that's the recommendation that I'm giving. MR. JORGENSEN: Your DOE grant, you were funded at 275,000 last week, we worked with you on that and helped write that. And your resolution that you passed as part of that program for the energy project, we're gathering data now, the last few days, on all the electrical uses for all of your buildings. MR. BURGESS: When you say all, which ones are you talking about? MR. JORGENSEN: All, everything. MR. BURGESS: From Red River to here? MR. JORGENSEN: Yes. MR. BURGESS: Casinos? MR. JORGENSEN: Yes. MR. BURGESS: You said all, so I just want to make sure. MR. JORGENSEN: Casinos are not -- gaming isn't eligible for funding, and we're doing that in a separate database. MR. BURGESS: Because we own the buildings. MR. JORGENSEN: We've already been there. But that will be -- we'll handle that separately. MR. BURGESS: All right. MR. JORGENSEN: Same information. MR. BURGESS: Yes, Beverly? MS. ISAAC: Jarvis said we had mountains over there. Would we be able to get one of them turbines? MR. BURGESS: I don't know. I think we're on a weak side, meaning to the south and west, where the winds are going to be going above us most of the time. The picture depicts what, about six foot high? MR. ASEPERMY: Beverly, those mountains are kind of on the south side. If you had a turbine, they would -- you would have to almost -- they're -- MR. BURGESS: Yeah, wouldn't -- MR. ASEPERMY: The wind don't below from the north very often. MR. BURGESS: The wind ain't great for us over there. MR. DEVINE: The 10 kilowatt unit is 18 to 30 feet. So they're -- MR. BURGESS: High. MR. DEVINE: Yeah. The minimum is 18 feet, and they range all the way up to 200 plus feet for the commercial scale units. MR. BURGESS: How many of those to just supply electricity here would we need? MR. DEVINE: That's what we're waiting for, the data. And I won't know until I get that and see what your electrical load is. MR. ASEPERMY: Mr. Chairman, I'm going to have to leave in six minutes, but I would like to move an item -- I just got a -- move on executive session. I would like to move item -- MR. BURGESS: We've got several items. MR. ASEPERMY: This was requested. Item 8, I'd like to move that to the 23rd, because Rita won't be here. MR. TIPPECONNIE: They've already asked -- MR. ASEPERMY: And I would also like to move Item 20. MR. BURGESS: Hang on, now. Mr. Devine, are you complete here? Do you want to come back to us on the 23rd? MR. DEVINE: Sir, I'm not going to be able to come back on the 23rd. MR. TIPPECONNIE: But you're working with Mr. -- MR. DEVINE: Yes, and he's pretty much signed off on what all we're supposed to provide to you and what he wants to do. MR. BURGESS: All right. So, Lewis, we'll get back with you, come back to us on the 23rd. Give us more background on this project and what we're going to -- cost we might be incurring, if that. But then we know it won't be complete until we get the data. I'm sorry, your names again? MR. JORGENSEN: Stan Jorgensen. MR. GEURIN: Mike Geurin. MR. BURGESS: We're going to need more data from you. I think that we're going to try and go to some of these executive sessions here, Lanny. We've got two motions, those motions you want in executive session, right? MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yeah, we can move them, but I wanted to get these land people first. MR. BURGESS: Yeah, we want to get to the land folks. They've been sitting here a long time. At this point, thank you, John. We'll be in touch with you. Continue networking with Lewis here. MR. DEVINE: Yes. I'm on the executive, I think Number 9, I believe, regarding another issue. MR. TIPPECONNIE: We may not get to you, but we'll let you know. MR. JORGENSEN: Thanks for having us. MR. BURGESS: Thank you, Stan, Mike. Ladies and gentlemen, we're going to go into executive session at this time, being 12:56, Mr. Asepermy has. Do we want to start with the Narcomey land or move down? MR. TIPPECONNIE: Let's move down to -- MR. BURGESS: Clyde, can we reconvene with you on the 23rd? MR. ASEPERMY: Mike, I am going to have to roll here. I would like to move Item 20 and Item Number 8 to the 23rd. MR. BURGESS: Yeah. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Number 20 to the 23rd? MR. ASEPERMY: Number 8 and Number 20. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Most of those will all be 23rd. MR. BURGESS: Most of that. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Eight down, they'll all be 23rd. MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: Remember Number 7. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Go to Number 7, then we can -- MR. ASEPERMY: And Mr. Chairman, before I go, I would like for Mr. Tippeconnie to give a blessing. We lost 12 soldiers, one Department of Defense civilian, 38 other soldiers killed, murdered yesterday by one of our own, or at least he wore the uniform. Robert, being a former soldier, a man of God, I would like to have some sort of blessing for these families and for these soldiers before we go. Two of them were from Oklahoma. One from Frederick, and I can't remember the other town right off the top of my head. Would you mind doing that for us, Robert? MR. TIPPECONNIE: (Prayer.) (Executive session held from 1:00 p.m. to 2:30 p.m.) (Meeting recessed at 2:30 p.m.) * * * * * * R E P O R T E R 'S C E R T I F I C A T E STATE OF OKLAHOMA ) ) COUNTY OF OKLAHOMA ) I, Kelly Stoabs, Certified Shorthand Reporter for the State of Oklahoma, certify that the above and foregoing meeting transcribed by me is a true and correct transcript of the meeting; that the meeting was held on November 7, 2009, in the State of Oklahoma; that I am not an attorney for nor a relative of any said parties, or otherwise interested in the event of said action. IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set hereunto set my hand and seal of office on this the 23rd day of November, 2009. __________________________ Kelly Stoabs Certified Shorthand Reporter for the State of Oklahoma S E C R E T A R Y ' S C E R T I F I C A T E I, Robert Tippeconnie, Secretary- Treasurer of Comanche Nation Business Committee, certify that the above is a true and correct transcript of a meeting of CBC Members held at 10:00 a.m. on November 7, 2009, and that the meeting was duly called and held in all respects in accordance with the charters and bylaws of the Comanche Nation and that a quorum was present. I further certify that the votes and resolutions of the CBC Members of Comanche Nation at the meeting are operative and in full force and effect and have not been annulled or modified by any vote or resolution passed or adopted by the CBC since that meeting. Signed:_________________________ Date:____________ Robert Tippeconnie Secretary-Treasurer 12