TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS OF THE COMANCHE BUSINESS COMMITTEE MONTHLY MEETING DECEMBER 5, 2009, 10:08 A.M. COMANCHE NATION COMPLEX LAWTON, OKLAHOMA __________________________________________________ REPORTED BY: KELLY STOABS, CSR DODSON REPORTING & ASSOCIATES 435 NORTH WALKER, SUITE 102 OKLAHOMA CITY, OKLAHOMA 73102 (405) 235-1828 ~ (405) 235-1266 (FAX) dcri@coxinet.net A P P E A R A N C E S COMANCHE NATION BUSINESS COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Michael Burgess, Chairman Richard Henson, Vice-Chairman Robert Tippeconnie, Secretary-Treasurer Edmond Mahseet, Committeeman #1 Darrell Kosechequetah, Committeeman #3 Clyde R. Narcomey, Committeeman #4 LEGAL COUNSEL: Kirke Kickingbird, James Burson Hobbs, Straus, Dean & Walker * * * * * * INDEX OF PROCEEDINGS PAGE Meeting called to order at 10:08 a.m. 5 Roll call. 5 Invocation. 5 Motion passed to amend agenda. 7 Bill Voelker - Essential Species List. 8 Motion passed to table Resolution Number 16 169-09/Amend Comanche Nation Human Resources Policy and Procedures. Motion passed to approve Resolution Number 45 178-09/Enrollment/List No. 810 Ineligible. Motion passed to approve Resolution Number 46 179-09/Enrollment/List No. 811 Ineligible. Motion passed to approve Resolution Number 47 170-09/Enrollment/List No. 812 Eligible. Motion passed to approve Resolution Number 63 181-09/Approving the Selection of Joesph Eve to Conduct the Comanche nation Governmental Audit for FY 2009. Motion passed to approve Resolution Number 65 182-09/Approving KCA Funds for FY 2010. Motion passed to table Resolution Number 73 183-09/Approve Comanche Nation College Charter. Motion passed to approve Resolution Number 76 184-09/FY 2010 NAGPRA Repatriation Grant. Motion passed to approve Resolution Number 79 185-09/Signature authority providing Finley & Cook instructions for processing Comanche Nation Payment Requests. Tommy Johnson sworn in as Housing 106 Board Commissioner. INDEX OF PROCEEDINGS (continued) PAGE Motion passed to approve Resolution Number 126 187-09/Directing disbursement of bereavement payments to family members of deceased members. Motion passed to approve Native American 131 Church Donations. Jarvis Poahway/Survey Equipment. 136 Michael Bradle, no show. 143 Ed Tahhahwah/Shoshone Reunion Update. 143 Open session concluded at 1:55 p.m. 159 Reporter's Certificate. 160 Secretary's Certificate. 161 * * * * * * (Meeting called to order at 10:08 a.m.) MR. BURGESS: Ladies and gentlemen, good morning everybody. We're going to call to order here and have roll call. Mr. Tippeconnie, would you give us a roll call? MR. TIPPECONNIE: Michael Burgess? MR. BURGESS: Here. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Richard Henson? MR. HENSON: Here. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Robert Tippeconnie? Here. Edmond Mahseet? MR. MAHSEET: Here. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Darrell Kosechequetah? MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: Here. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Clyde Narcomey? MR. NARCOMEY: Here. MR. TIPPECONNIE: We have a quorum, Mr. Chairman. MR. BURGESS: All right. Tommy Johnson, would you give us an invocation and open us up today, Brother? MR. JOHNSON: (Invocation.) MR. TIPPECONNIE: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to add an agenda change. I'd like to add a Number 2 item under executive session, Mr. Ron Burgess. MR. BURGESS: Gentlemen, any other suggestions for agenda change? Hearing no further -- MR. NARCOMEY: Mr. Chairman, I needed to make a change in the executive session, also, concerning an elder plus his handicap. His name is Clarence Pacheka. I think he either resides in Indiahoma or Cache, I'm not for sure. But he needs some work done on his house to accommodate and to help him out in his wheelchair and widen the doorway, plus to build his restroom, and also some handicap deals. I talked to Rudy Yokesuite the other day and he said he was needing some sort of approval from us to tell the TA to go ahead with it. He has the money. I think he said it costs right around 13,000 to do whatever needs to be done to help this handicap elder out, and I'd like for that to get done, or to talk about it. MR. BURGESS: All right. We've had that addition to executive session. Gentlemen, any other additions to the agenda here? Hearing none, all those in favor signify by saying "aye." (Aye.) MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same sign. All those abstain, same sign. The ayes have it. Would you add those portions, those three items to our executive session? MR. TIPPECONNIE: Got it, yeah. MR. BURGESS: Ladies and gentlemen, for your information, first, Mr. Asepermy is not with us today due to a family emergency. And on our agenda, we don't have it posted, for those of you who picked one up. We are going to go through our open meeting session. For these three items on executive session, we're going to move them over to the old conference room. Then the remainder of executive session items, which is not on this agenda, we have several, we'll post that, but that executive session will be held at the business center. What's the address on Gore? 1915 East Gore, Comanche Business Center as it's now known. That's for purposes that we're going to start working on the walls in here for soundproofing as soon as possible. So just to give you information, let you know about that. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Tell the date. MR. BURGESS: The date? I think we're looking at the 22nd, isn't it? December 22nd? MR. HENSON: Are you going to be in town then? MR. BURGESS: Yes, I'll be in town. MR. TIPPECONNIE: 9:00 to 5:00? MR. BURGESS: Yes. MS. HENDRIX: What time did you say? MR. BURGESS: 9 o'clock we'll reconvene, December 22nd. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Is that where the tag office is? MR. BURGESS: Yes, it is. So with that, gentlemen, those of you who need to, take a few moments, if you will, to review the minutes while I get some coffee. You know, recently, folks, Mr. Voelker, Bill Voelker, with the NAGPRA Program and with his own nonprofit, the Sia Project, that the Comanche Nation helped start. We funded it in '04 and '05 to help it get started. He's been working with National Wildlife Service, Fish & Wildlife Service. They've addressed an issue that's specific to our Indian peoples across the country. It's not eagles, but it's other migratory birds and species that we use. And I'm going to turn this over to Bill here to give you a little background information that's come about with other animals and birds that we utilize in our ceremonies. MR. VOELKER. Chairman, thank you. Morning, folks. Sia, our Comanche Nation eagle program is much more than eagles. It involves all the birds of cultural significance. And basically what we've done is taken my 40 plus years of experience and hands-on working with birds from a cultural perspective and formatted it in such a way that it is more meaningful for people today, while respecting all of our historic life ways. What we've done, because of our unique position, is in working with the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service, all the hands-on work that we do involving any native species requires federal and state permits in order to do it legally. As such, there's always been a provision since the Golden Eagle Amendment and the Bald Eagle Protection Act in 1962 to address eagle feather uses for Native Americans. There are means in place to allow us to do that. However, legally, and people will tell you different, but legally, according to the letter of the law, there has been no legal mechanism ever since the initiation of the laws protecting the other migratory birds for us to acquire legally the feathers of these other protected birds. Due to the Morton policy and under the Clinton administration, a memorandum that was issued, it's been hands-off with Native Americans, and even to utilize the feathers from other species, the position of U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service has been to leave us alone, to not harass us. Although you know there have been cases where there have been busts in Indian Country over feathers. The problem comes in is legally we cannot sell a feather. It is absolutely totally illegal for anyone to sell any feather, no matter how old the feather is. Say there's a historic item that's been passed down from the family for 100 years. It's legal to posses it, but when commerce enters into it, when it's offered for sale or whether you are asked to sell it, that is when we get in trouble. So the special provision Native people have is our possession is legally covered. However, back to the other species that we use: As all of you know, whether it's the powwow world, whether it's Native American Church, there are other species of bird whose feathers are essential to us. So what we have designed at Sia is what we call the Essential Species List, which lists all these birds, animals, plants that we require essentially to keep our traditional life ways going. And as a result of that, what we have established through a -- I think we've hosted four different law enforcement meetings at Sia this year, hammering out the particulars and what we're being issued. The Comanche Nation Tribe, first- ever permit, first-ever of its kind ever designed by the Fish & Wildlife Service is a legal means to allow us to be a national repository for the acquisition, the possession, and the distribution of the feathers of other protected birds. This includes the hawks, the owls, falcons, and waterbird. All of you know, any Native American Church group practitioners we have, that waterbird is essential to that ceremony. It's called the Anhinga, is the technical name of this bird. For all the waterbird feathers sitting in peyote tepees at every ceremony, most of those -- or all of those fresh feathers are illegal. So this allows for the very first time the mechanism to do this. So we're able now to accept feathers that are legally molted by birds held in captivity. Falconers, there are thousand of falconers in the United States. They all have birds legally held under federal and state permit. They have not been able to do anything legally with all the feathers these birds molt. They will be coming to us. Same thing with zoos. Our Sia program, we're the only tribal member of the American Zoological Association. So with that connection, we interact with the various zoos in the country. And without exception, all the zoos want to donate their feather to us for tribal uses. The legal means haven't been there until right now. So we have all the zoo feathers, the falconry feathers. Rehabilitation centers, they have birds held legally under permit, those feathers are available to us as well. What we have done -- law enforcement is nervous about this whole thing, because they're the ones who have to enforce violations of the laws. Well, what we do at Sia is, from the minute a feather will come to us, it will have a bar code. It will keep that bar code until it's ready for disbursement, at which time either an RFID or a microchip will be assigned. For those of you who have come to Sia and accepted feathers to date, feathers from the eagles that we have under another permit where the birds we house at Sia, bald and Golden eagles, molt feathers, those feathers can be distributed actually immediately to tribal members, once they're cataloged and once the tribal member is verified. So we're addressing the eagle side of things, too. But our technology has convinced the Fish & Wildlife Service that as a tribal entity we can handle this. Unfortunately, just to be quite crude and honest, the feds have looked at us as, well, you know, it's the dumb Indian syndrome. We can't manage our own affairs. Yes, we have this cultural association with these birds, but we don't know what it takes in order to care for these things legally and enforce it. Well, I stand here to tell you that the Comanche Nation, standing apart from everybody else, we have raised the bar to the point where we have gotten this authorization. So I need to thank Dr. Benjamin Tuttle. He's our regional director of U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service. He was at Sia facilities on June 2nd. Bob was there, Darrell was there. And he's an African-American. I don't care what anybody's politics are, but with our new president, I think our regional director is empowered in a way that, ethnically speaking, he is more sensitive to our Native Americans, because he comes with his own ethnicity. So we're in a unique place in Regional II, it's a unique time. And with our progressive CBC that we have now, I think it's very fitting that this authorization is coming down when it is. So just to give you a heads up. It's going to take us a few months to start accepting the feathers and get them cataloged and all, but we're forging ahead. And the important point, even though all of this comes from a Comanche perspective, we can legally provide feathers to other tribes. Sia, at this point, has actually helped 26 different tribes with feather and bird part needs done legally. But this permit, as I said, will set up this national repository and we can help everybody. So thank you, Chairman, for allowing me to speak to that. MR. BURGESS: Thank you, Mr. Voelker. We appreciate it. Well, again, we're moving ahead. Thank you. Glad to hear that. I know a lot of our folks that use them in the arena, too, or some aspect of it, are going to be very thankful for that. Gentlemen, any discussion, recommendations on our minutes from previous meetings? Any changes, recommendations? Barring none, I'll accept a motion to approve the minutes of our November 7, 2009 CBC meeting. MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: So moved, Mr. Chairman. MR. BURGESS: Motion by Mr. Kosechequetah. MR. MAHSEET: Second. MR. BURGESS: Second by Mr. Mahseet. All those in favor signify by saying "aye." (Aye.) MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same sign. All those abstain, same sign. The ayes have it. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Resolution 169-09, which is amending the Comanche Nation Human Resources, and I feel there's a need to -- MR. NARCOMEY: I make a motion to table that until the 22nd when we meet again. There's still a lot of questions that needs to be answered on that. MR. BURGESS: Motion to table. So you'll have recommendations to come in? Motion's been made to table Resolution 169-09 for further discussion. MR. HENSON: What is it on there, Clyde, that needs to be that you're looking at? Because we did change that last paragraph. MR. NARCOMEY: Well, every time we meet as a CBC, there's always questions arising, and we never did complete -- never did get an answer. I don't have it right now. MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: What was your comment, Bob, that you were getting ready to make? MR. TIPPECONNIE: My comment? I just feel that we need to give more time to it, because there's a number of CBC members that are raising questions, so we do need to give it more time. So that's good to table it. MR. NARCOMEY: Okay. MR. BURGESS: One of the items that Mr. Henson has brought in, if you refer to the last page on this item under Section 107, only Item A, sub Item A there, the other portion has been struck from the record. MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: We understand that. I'd like to second Mr. Narcomey's motion to table. MR. HENSON: Before that, I want some discussion on this. MR. BURGESS: On the entire item? MR. HENSON: The whole thing -- what this amounts to was that there was one case that's been brought before us, which happened at gaming. I'm not going to say the name or anything. All our other entities supposedly has Comanche Preference in hiring. But in this case over at the gaming, they just flat overlooked this guy, and he was a highly-qualified individual. That's what brought all this to light. Their interpretation of their policies over there is saying that they can look at everybody. And when they do that, they overlook Indian Preference, because they go and try to hire anybody they want to, is basically what it amounts to. What this does, what this policy says, and everybody that I know of within Comanche world wants to hire, wants our own people to go to work. This policy states as long as they're qualified for that job, then they will be referred, and it's got the procedure how they're going to be referred. If there's qualified Comanches first -- I mean, if there's qualified Comanches, then there is a Certificate of Qualified Comanches. If they're highly-qualified Comanches, there's a Certificate of Highly-Qualified Comanches. And those are the only things that the selecting official is going to see. They're not going to see anything else. They're not going to have a choice of whether they want to hire this white man over here who they think might be a brother or highly -- more highly qualified. And that's the way this reads. It's to get our own people back. This same thing that we have, we've already approved for the tribe, and I don't know why it's being questioned about providing it to our whole Comanche Nation. This same policy is given to us by the government of the United States that says that we can have Comanche Preference. Now, in BIA and IHS, they have Indian Preference, and they've had it for years and years. And there's no difference in why -- I personally do not see anything wrong with this, because it spells out how a Comanche can be hired, if they're qualified. Of course, this doesn't mean if they're just Comanche that they get hired. They have to be qualified for the job, and that's the way it's stated. MR. WHITEWOLF: You mean gaming doesn't respect tribal policy when they have -- MR. HENSON: They haven't. What they've done -- and I don't know about the other agencies. This individual -- this thing happened with gaming. And when I went down there to try to explain, through their own policies, they say, no, that's not the way we read it. So they overlooked this individual and put a non-Indian individual into this job. And this individual that they didn't put in there that was Comanche was highly qualified for the job. So they were looking at it at a different aspect. And I tried to explain it to them, and they said, well, that's not the way it reads. So what this does here, it goes through and tells them exactly how to operate Indian Preference. And what it basically says is, that they will -- the HR or whoever is the human resources people will go in, and they will take a look at all the applications, but first they'll pick out the Comanche applications. And if there's Comanche applications that are qualified, then they set these others aside. They don't even have to look at them. They look at these Comanche applications, and then they'll give the selecting official these Comanche applications and they will pick from one of those. If we don't have any Comanche applications, then they'll look at other Indian tribes. If they're qualified, then the selecting official just sees them. If there's no Comanche, no other Indians, then anybody else, they can give it to the selecting official, and that's all this is. It don't say any different. There's nothing in it that I think needs discussion, but CBC thinks there is that needs to be more qualified. MR. WHITEWOLF: Well, what's Mr. Tippeconnie's hesitation? What are you -- MR. TIPPECONNIE: I want to give more discussion, not just for myself, but the CBC, because there's others than myself raising questions. MR. WHITEWOLF: By whom? MR. TIPPECONNIE: So we need to have more discussion on it. I can't answer what all their questions are, they have to. We need to have more time on it. So what I would call for is the question. We have a motion and a second. MR. BURGESS: We have a motion, I know a second's been made, but this is a big -- several entities here have some concerns. All our entities underneath us have a concern how it's going to be applied as well. Yes, Jessie, Mr. Coffey? MR. COFFEY: In regards to your Indian Preference as far as Comanches, now, that issue has always been -- the adoption of the constitution back in -- when was it? Back in -- MR. BURGESS: '63? MR. COFFEY: In the '60s. MR. BURGESS: The constitution? MR. COFFEY: That issue has always been self-explanatory. It's Comanche tribal preference being hired first. I understand that the capabilities and abilities possessed within that individual, and that should have preference, and that has always been the practice. Okay? Not only within the Indian Preference to hire, but also within the Buy Indian Act. Which in the Buy Indian Act, it's Comanches. Which the casinos, the Buy Indian Act is there. It has always been there. I looked down there at the casino that had been remodeled. I did not see a Comanche working. We have people -- we have Comanches who have businesses that are qualified in certain areas in which to do things, construction, accounting, whatever. But I did not see -- the tivos, the tutivos. I did not see a Comanche boy working down there, a Comanche lady. So, you know, these are things that I think that need to be answered. The board themselves, they have to address the issue. There are people on that board who have that knowledge, what the Buy Indian Act is, what Indian Preference is. They have people that's on that board that have practiced that issue that are well aware of it, but it has not been -- it has not been done. And that practice needs to be continued within our tribe, because we've got a lot of qualified Comanche people who have been in a different type of business, but I have not seen it. I have not seen it been addressed to the casinos. That -- you know, that, to me, they're doing away with a lot of -- their attorney is telling them different. Their attorney is telling them different. He's not Comanche. MR. BURGESS: Thank you, Jessie. I don't mean to cut you off. MR. COFFEY: This is what I'm saying. MR. BURGESS: I know what you mean. Roderick? Excuse me, Roderick? MR. WHITEWOLF: The intent is good. I agree with Bunky, the intent is good. I don't know why the hesitation. Why can't you go ahead and approve it and later on amend it as problems begin to arise? But the way y'all do things, y'all take so long to do something. Mr. Tippeconnie's question is fine. He wants to perfect it. But I've yet to see any group perfect anything. So I agree with Bunky. I think it's important to pass that, and then later on you as questions arise and problems arise, then you can amend it. MR. BURGESS: Thank you. Robert? You raised your hand earlier. MR. TAHMAHKERA: It's obvious that it's a discussion that needs to be made; however, it's a pretty touchy discussion. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Vice-Chairman, is this interpretation from the attorneys' interpretation that you're giving? MR. BURGESS: Bunky will answer that. MR. HENSON: No, no. It's been run by the attorneys, and the attorneys, what the attorneys recommended is some kind of disciplinary action at the end. That's what the last resolution that we had said, that there would be disciplinary actions if they went above Indian Preference. The CBC at that time disagreed with that. They didn't really want to do that. So what we did on this one is we just took the disciplinary actions out of it and left it up to the CR or HR, I'm talking about, to do whatever. They -- it's their responsibility to follow up on it. MR. TAHMAHKERA: It's a vital decision. And if we can't take our own attorneys' advice, we need to seek other advice. MR. HENSON: The attorneys approve this. I mean, they went along with it. There was nothing wrong with it. They even went along with the disciplinary action that I proposed. But the CBC didn't want it, so I marked it out on this and left it up to the human resource department. Now, we're here discussing this policy, and I want to ask any CBC member that's got a question on this, or why we shouldn't go ahead and pass this, to bring it up now and let's discuss it while the people are here. Because everybody knows that a lot of people has more wisdom than one or seven. Let's put it seven, the CBC. So if we can discuss this and get this passed, I'd be most grateful to the CBC. MR. BURGESS: Mr. Nelson, you have a statement? MR. NELSON: Yes. It's really ambiguous, Mr. Coffey. It covers -- the coverage, the coverage. I'm all for this, but the coverage. Let me just read it. "The ordinance shall be binding on all entities, enterprises and organizations operating under the Comanche Nation." That encompasses everybody, everybody. Finally, everybody. MR. WHITEWOLF: What do you mean "everybody?" MR. NELSON: Be it all the economic, be it all the gaming. MR. WHITEWOLF: Tribal entities? MR. NELSON: School -- yeah, all of it, all of it. Everybody has their own policy in place, their own personnel policy. So this is being grandfathered for all. It's really ambiguous. MR. BURGESS: Well, I don't know that it's ambiguous, but what it is, is each of our entities have a different definition or interpretation of what hiring Indian is, Indian Preference Act. As we heard at the gaming hall, one had an idea that the statement said --the whole sentence boiled down to, the very last is hire the most qualified, excluding even the most qualified Indian. Another interpretation had been that we can hire the Indian, but if somebody who's another Indian, we can hire them over the Comanche. They may have more qualifications. That's under Indian Preference. Our situation is, ladies and gentlemen, that while a lot of our Comanche people want to go to work, many times they don't have the highest quality skills, training or education to be selected first. And instead of being brought into a mentoring or training avenue behind those who have the highest qualifications, they're leaving them behind. We haven't initiated a program in some of our areas to train the Comanche into that position. MR. HENSON: Let me -- I don't want to go past, but let me say one thing. MR. BURGESS: Go ahead. MR. HENSON: What he's saying is if a Comanche is qualified for the job, then if he's the only one that's on the cert, they should get the job regardless of whatever. And the way this spells it out is, again, the human resources does the applications. They do the Comanche applications first. If there's a qualified individual in that application, then the Comanches are the only ones that's going to be referred for selection. It's not going to be nobody else. There's three certificates. There's qualified -- well, actually there's four. There's nonqualified, there's qualified, there's highly qualified, and then there's the non-Indian qualified or highly qualified. So what they do is, they take away all the nonqualified, and then they go to the Comanche applications which is qualified. And then if there are qualified people, they send them to the job, or send their certificates to the job to be -- for them to be selected, somebody to select them. MS. ISAAC: I have a question. MR. BURGESS: Just a minute. Go ahead. Jessie, go ahead. MR. COFFEY: I know at one time the tribe had a TERO program, Tribal Employment Rights Office. The last person that was in there just passed on. But the program itself, if it's handled in a situation to where that they can have a job, data bank set up to identify these people who are certified through the State of Oklahoma as a plumber, as a contracting plumber, as a contracting electrician, welders and stuff. They can go and get through the different levels of the certification for plumber or an electrician. And if the program itself is set up in a sense, then you can identify who our tribal members are whenever they need a person as a contracting plumber, as a contractor who is licensed through State of Oklahoma to perform plumbing business within the state. Then they can go anywhere within the State of Oklahoma to do that. And, you know, if we -- if this office would coordinate all this with the tribe, with the casinos, and whatever programs that there are. You know, it's just centralized information that is available to -- from the TERO program to the tribe. Then we can identify those people. And when the jobs come in, we can contact those people to let them know that, hey, we have a job coming up that's going to require this type, according to the specs of whatever the -- whatever specifications are that's set up for the plumbing codes, electrician codes, so forth. So, you know, I think this program itself is something that can -- that can come about. And if it's run in a manner, that program will pay for its own self based upon what the Comanches do, what the Comanche tribe does, the casino does. The construction portion of it, they can get a percentage of that money that's been built to run their program. It will not only help that program, but it will also help some of the people that are put in these jobs that do not have the money for their insurance and stuff like that. MR. BURGESS: Correct. Correct, Mr. Coffey. Thank you, Jessie. Beverly, you had a question? MS. ISAAC: Yes, I did have a question. I appreciate what Mr. Coffey is saying, but TERO doesn't do any of that stuff. The human resource department should be -- have the database here. You're going to have to have good people in that human resource department in order to stop the preferences that have been going on for years. And it's not maybe this committee's fault that we're in this mess, but, you know, it needs to be straightened out and it needs to be -- like Mr. Henson said. He's had -- I got here late, but I know he's had meetings in different areas. And as far as the casinos, that's very important, but you need to start here at this tribe also. I mean, this is the smallest -- use that for an example to get started. Because you're not hiring the best qualified people here. We see these people on the streets and the next day they're hired, and it's without any advertisement. How are you going to straighten this up if you don't start right here? MR. BURGESS: Correct. This ordinance that we're talking of right now has come from our personnel policies to be projected over all entities of the tribe. The personnel policies of the tribe, our HR policies, it's already approved in here. And so Mr. Henson wants this, and I agree that we should have some mechanism to help all entities of the tribe that help themselves to hire qualified Comanches. What we don't have in all entities is a mechanism or a policy that brings a lesser qualified Comanche behind that individual for training and upgrading their skills. Now, while we have higher education going on, one of the things we have, and this is what's affecting us right now, is a brain drain. Our college students are going elsewhere when they graduate. They're getting recruited, highly recruited. Our problem is, we are not competitive with salaries. Something you just spoke about, Bev. So we have to upgrade our own internal pay scale which acquires or help us to encourage people to return home for better salaries, and that's what happened. An example is a young man that worked for us in our land management area. I don't know what we were paying him, but apparently the BIA liked his work. College degree, highly motivated. Worked one year with us, then went to the BIA for a salary almost twice of what we paid, because they saw his work, and we ended up training him. So from now on, if we're going to do something like that, these people are going to come here, we're going to put them in a contract, they can't leave us for X number of years, because we've helped them through, we've trained them, and we need to keep them here. MS. ISAAC: We talked about this like a long time ago. When they're trained, like in Donna's program, and they move up and move up, then they're obligated to the tribe for so long. But nobody's ever stuck to that -- MR. BURGESS: We're trying to. And speaking of Donna, you mean Donna Victorian? That's a different avenue. It's similar to first work experience on the job sometimes. Other times it's to help a person who's unemployed to get into a position through employment assistance, not necessarily to train them and keep them on the job. Personally, I agree with Mr. Henson. On the other hand, I agree with the guys that maybe we need to flesh this out, because it's going to affect everything that we have from the police department over here to Comanche Nation Enterprises. As we've seen it's affected our gaming hall in the way it's interpreted and then applied. So we need one policy, no different interpretations for all of it. And that means once we pass this law, we probably need to set up a workshop for everybody to understand how we expect it to be implemented. One last question and then over here to Tommy. MS. CRAIG: You're talking about a contract. The person that's in charge of something doesn't do their job and you fire them, are you obligated to give them compensation for firing them, like we have been doing in the past, or are you going to have them live up to that contract and do a better job? Because we have people here that pass the buck. When something goes wrong, they blame you, they blame Mr. Henson, they blame Mr. Tippeconnie, but it all boils down to that one particular area. And I'm not going to name any names, because you men know who I'm talking about and what I'm talking about. And it's ridiculous that these people can get by with these things. You slap their hands and say, "Oh, well, we're going to straighten it out," and it hasn't been straightened out. A lot of people complain about it. So what's going to happen? Mr. Tribal Administrator over there, he knows all about it. What's he doing about it? Nothing. He says, "Well, you know, give them a chance." Okay. You give them 10 chances and they're still going to make a big mistake, so something's got to be done. It's ridiculous. MR. BURGESS: Correct. And that's where these HR policies, if they're followed to the letter of the law, they will handle that, and that's what has to happen. And we all know that I -- Wait, Roderick, I have a gentleman. Tommy? Gabby, you have your hand? MR. POAHWAY: Well, my question is, you have a policy in place. Okay. Now, the procedure of advertising for the job for Indian Preference, I mean you put it in the paper -- I mean, I've never seen any -- I've seen a lot of people hired out here at the Comanche Tribe, and I've never seen a notice in the paper advertising the job that's been given. That's undermining -- to me, that's undermining the policies of the General Council, also undermining the CBC members when they hire somebody and they don't go through the process of -- now, is this new policy going to have that process in there? Will they have to advertise for that job? MR. BURGESS: Yes, that's -- go ahead, Bunky. MR. HENSON: The new policies and procedures for the tribe that we already passed is this one. It's in effect right now and it gives you all advertising and everything. Every vacant position must be advertised now. MR. POAHWAY: How long has that been in -- MR. TIPPECONNIE: We approved it in October. MR. HENSON: October. MR. POAHWAY: Since October, then, there have been quite a few people hired out here that there were no advertisements in the paper about, none, absolutely none. MR. BURGESS: Mr. TA, we've advertised over six jobs both on the Website and designate that they be advertised in the paper as well because of the time stipulation. MR. POAHWAY: There's never been anything in the paper. The position that Mr. Norman Nauni was appointed to and some of the other people that were appointed to -- MR. BURGESS: Prior to October. The only ones that wouldn't be advertised are the WIA workers that are brought in on a training status. But since this policies have been passed since October, all jobs have been advertised. MR. HENSON: This says they must appear in the paper. And the paper tells you to go to the Website to see the particulars. MR. POAHWAY: I've checked that out. I've checked both of them out. MR. HENSON: The reason that the full advertisement is not going into the paper is because of the cost. There's a tremendous amount of cost in advertising for a position. So what we decided was to put in the paper maybe two or three lines, which is minimal cost. MR. BURGESS: Three. MR. HENSON: Three lines, which is minimal cost, to tell you where to go to find all the information, and that's on our Website. That will give you all the particulars of every job we have, all the openings that we have. It's ComancheNation.com, isn't it? MR. BURGESS: Yes. One last statement, then we'll move on our agenda. MR. WHITEWOLF: Mike, I've always had a different thought on tribal employment. I've always considered tribal employment as a first line of people getting experience so they can go out. Mr. Tippeconnie's talking about the action of retention. But to retain somebody means that that person, if he's got good sense, he's going to -- he's going to want retirement, and I don't know about the tribe. Do they have a retirement plan? MR. NELSON: Yes, sir. MR. BURGESS: Yes, we do. We have a 401(k). Well, it's up to the individual. MR. WHITEWOLF: It's better than nothing. MR. BURGESS: It's better than nothing. And prior to 2001, there was no retirement plan. MR. WHITEWOLF: But I would think that you would hone somebody's skills so they could apply -- you know, you talk about this young man that y'all -- sure you'd like to keep top of the line people, but what are they going to do when they get old and they need some extra -- some good bucks? MR. BURGESS: Roderick, I'm facing that, so I need to go out in the real word. MR. WHITEWOLF: You're getting big bucks for your retirement. MR. BURGESS: I understand what you're saying. And I've seen it this way in some of the more progressive tribes, I'm using that very broadly, and that a lot of tribes pay dearly, pay highly to bring in qualified, highly-qualified managers who not only sit there and supervise, but who have intuition about projects, grants, implementation of these programs and these areas, and setting up an in-house training program or mentoring their people. We haven't approached that yet. And I agree with you, Roderick. There are some areas that people can come in here and get some highly qualified training and then move on. But training doesn't happen in eight weeks. You can't train someone real well to compete in the open world within eight weeks. MR. WHITEWOLF: I don't imagine anybody gets trained in eight weeks. I'm talking a couple of years. MR. BURGESS: I agree with you. We should have these programs that are at least six months to a year long to take them through several areas. MR. WHITEWOLF: Why would you feel like you're being slighted if they go get a better job? You know, and whether their welfare -- MR. BURGESS: Well, if I have a person working for me who can make a perfect widget time after time, I'm going to lose money if I bring somebody in who's going to have to go through a million widgets to make the perfect one time after time. Continuity and experience means that you want to rely on that experience and go forward. And then you hope that they will and should train someone to become as well as they are, so if they decide to move, there's somebody behind them. MR. WHITEWOLF: I understand that. But I'm talking about what do you offer? What is he getting in return, talking about longevity, you know. Money after, after they work. MR. BURGESS: One of the things, personal experience has been to accept training wherever and whenever I could get it. I gave up salary increases to go on training. You can encourage an individual to accept training more so than just the cash if they're at a young age and build their skills so that down the line that income comes with that training. MR. HENSON: One of the things that the casinos had offered, has offered, and it is a good thing, they call it a mentoring program. They'll take whoever they want to, before, they'll take whoever they want to, throw them in a mentoring program and train them until they get a certain area, and then they give them a good job. I don't know for sure, but I suspect that the casinos has overlooked Indian Preference in these mentoring programs. Now, this in here says that Indian Preference will apply to all mentoring programs. That's with the -- all, every program in the Comanche Nation. If we apply those, those people will get their skills where they want to go, they'll -- we're going to make the Comanche Nation a better educated and more experienced tribe, and that's what this is for. MR. WHITEWOLF: That's why I don't see the hesitation in passing this. MR. HENSON: Well, that's why I'd like to bring it for discussion among everybody, so we can all discuss it. And if the CBC -- MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: Well, there's still gray area. MR. WHITEWOLF: There's always going to be gray area. MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: Well, yeah, but there's enough that it's a concern. MR. WHITEWOLF: But when you find it -- MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: One of the things we're trying to do is we want to get the highest qualified people working for us, especially in our money-making entities. That's extremely important. Now, my heart says hire 100 percent Comanche, but my business mind says maybe that's not the best idea. Okay? What the Chairman's talking about and what we're trying to impress upon our entities and other people in our tribal programs is get a highly-qualified person, you know, and if we need to, bring a Comanche right underneath them. That way here they train up, they train up, and now they're in that position, and we fill the slot that way, as opposed to throwing somebody into something and they're not fully prepared for that or they may not be the best qualified person for that job. That's the gray area that we're talking about here. It also takes away some of the ability of the management to distinguish who is the best qualified. We don't sit in their interview process. I don't know what took place with this Comanche man. I can't attest to that, I wasn't there. They sit across from those people, they review their resums, they review their work history, and they sit across from them and they look them eye to eye and they determine who is the best for that position, and they're in place to do that. And we oversee the board that oversees them that oversees that. See, by stepping in here, then we're cutting off that process, also. MR. WHITEWOLF: Yeah, but aside from brain surgery, anybody can learn most jobs. MR. HENSON: Well, what he's explaining is the same thing I'm talking about. It's a way to get by Indian Preference. Now, understand that this Indian Preference policy means that they have to be qualified for the job. Not minimally qualified or not qualified, they have to be qualified for the job to be on the cert to be forwarded over to the selecting individual. So we're not passing Indian Preference and we're not putting people in a job that's not qualified. MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: What if somebody's highly qualified? What if there's two highly qualified and they're not Comanche, and then there's two Comanches that are just qualified? MR. WHITEWOLF: Good enough. MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: What's the process there? MR. HENSON: There's no problem with that. BIA and IHS has been doing that for years. And those people that -- there's a way, if they're not qualified and can't do the job, to get rid of them, because they're on probation. MR. MAHSEET: Mr. Chairman, can we move on? MR. BURGESS: We've got to move on. I'm sorry. We've spent about 40 minutes on this subject and we've got another few items to go here. There's a motion made, there's a second made to table. MR. NARCOMEY: Mr. Chairman, that's the reason I was saying we need to table it, because there's a lot of questions, as you just seen. I said before we even started there's a lot of questions. But I'd like to make one comment before we move on, and I think we ought to move on, but one comment. 2003, 2004, and 2005, we had a highly-qualified CFO. You guys know that he cost the tribe, over $700,000, because he didn't file the proper income tax files. Now he's highly qualified. Now, will we hire him back? That's just my question right there. That's all I want to say. MR. BURGESS: Thank you. Call for the question. All those in favor signify by saying "aye." (Aye.) MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same sign. MR. HENSON: Nay. MR. BURGESS: The ayes have it. One nay, one abstention. Tabled. Item Number 2, these are enrollment lists. Resolution Number 178-09 is a resolution for those who have not met qualifications for the Comanche Nation. They made application but did not posses the required Comanche degree of blood, according to Article III, Section I of the Comanche Constitution. Only one person on there. MR. NARCOMEY: I make a motion to approve, Mr. Chairman. MR. BURGESS: Motion made by Mr. Narcomey over here to approve. Second? Is there a second? MR. TIPPECONNIE: I second. MR. BURGESS: Second by Mr. Tippeconnie. Okay. Call for the question. All those in favor signify by saying "aye." (Aye.) MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same sign. All those abstain, same sign. The ayes have it. Resolution 179-09, this is the third item under resolutions. It's another list of ineligibles. MR. NARCOMEY: I make a motion to approve that resolution, Mr. Chairman. MR. BURGESS: Mr. Narcomey also makes a motion to approve this list of ineligibles. Is there a second? Do I have a second on this? MR. HENSON: I'll second it. MR. BURGESS: Mr. Henson seconds. All those in favor signify by saying "aye." (Aye.) MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same sign. All those abstain, same sign. The ayes have it. All right. Item Number 4, Resolution 180-09. This is a list of eligibles. MR. NARCOMEY: I make a motion to approve, Mr. Chairman. MR. BURGESS: They meet all qualifications. Motion made by Mr. Narcomey to approve Resolution 180-09. MS. ISAAC: I have a question on the enrollment. Are y'all going through all the enrollment applications to make sure things don't happen like they did in the past? MR. BURGESS: Personally you mean? Us sit down? MS. ISAAC: How are y'all going to make sure that it's all correct without a typographical error, or, you know, things like that? Because we've got a lot of people on our committee -- our tribe that don't belong here. And, you know, how are we going to correct that, if ever? MR. BURGESS: That are already enrolled? MS. ISAAC: Yes, that are already enrolled that don't belong here, and then we have some that do belong here that are not getting enrolled. MS. AITSON: He's going to sit there and laugh about it, that's what he's going to do. MR. BURGESS: There is a big concern, because how far -- MS. ISAAC: We need to have a General Council with just this issue only, nothing else, enrollment. Everybody needs to understand what's been happening within enrollment. And, you know, there's a lot of questions out there. And when I ask a question or come to somebody they say, well, just write it down. And I found out writing it down doesn't do a bit of good. You take the time to write a letter or a list of concerns and nobody even listens to it when it's just one person. You need to do it in front of the whole General Council or a body of people that are really concerned about these issues. MR. BURGESS: You want to have a hearing and let everybody voice their concern, come to some kind of a committee for -- MS. ISAAC: Why not? Because there's a lot of issues that need to be addressed. And, you know, this body here is just leaving it up to the enrollment office, as I understand. My concerns with the enrollment office is they are not professional people there. MR. BURGESS: One of the things that we had talked about since this last -- most recent events, is sitting down and the CBC have a subcommittee that reviews this after they go through their process. We'd sit down with them. We have that family tree. You know, and this new, the new statements that we have presented to us, I talked with Donna earlier and that's where she puts down the families. You can go to the office or look at this page from Donna's office. It starts to list the name of the Indian family that this person comes from. So, for instance, we have a young lady here, she's out of Peahbyshy and Totite families. Another one we have here is Kosechequetah and Chockpoyah families. That's going to help you for those of you who want to see. We're getting so large now, we're descendants out of two or three bands and leaders. MS. ISAAC: We understand. A lot of us understand that. But we also understand that there's people that have been put on the roll that don't belong there, but it continues and continues and continues because they claim descendency from a well-known name and they're not descended from that name. But maybe they have four people that say, well, yes. You know, this was a long time ago. How are we going to -- we need to correct it, if it's going to be DNA or whatever, you know. We need to correct it. Too many people are on our roll. And I could name names. And I'm sure one person here could name somebody. MR. BURGESS: Well, I don't have all the answers. MS. ISAAC: I mean, that's how come we need to have a big -- just a meeting with just this -- it's too -- it hurts too many people. MR. BURGESS: Wilbur? MR. SAPCUT: What she's talking about, a few months ago, I got a letter in the mail from enrollment from the tribe wanting to know my father's correct address, mailing address, if it was all correct, and he passed away years and years ago. MS. ISAAC: It continues. MR. SAPCUT: I come up here the other day because of all the problems with the per cap business. I wanted to make sure all my records were straight, so I come here and checked on it. And I brought that up, that subject I just mentioned, to them, and she looked in there and everything. Now, something in that enrollment has to be done to get those people that don't do their job -- MR. BURGESS: That letter to you probably sparked it. The reason for that letter is, they were aware there was no filing of a death certificate. But, you know, that should have been done. If it's not in the file, then we have to go back and confirm that. MS. ISAAC: I found out -- MR. SAPCUT: Who is supposed to take care of that? MR. BURGESS: Well, the family is supposed to notify us in the event of a death. Now social services receives all of that. MR. WHITEWOLF: BIA's got all of that. MR. BURGESS: Then as I understand it, then they would notify enrollment. MS. ISAAC: BIA used to do that, but now we have our own supposedly database. I mean, there's no -- my file she pulled out one day, it just had two pieces of paper in here. And I know I've been up here to the enrollment to update my paperwork. And she said, "Well, it's all on computer." But, you know, she could take what she wants to. MR. BURGESS: If we input it wrong, it's wrong when it's inputted. Yes, Deborah? MRS. HENDRIX: I have an issue, too, with the enrollment, because I brought in my granddaughters paperwork, and faxed it, or Civa faxed it directly to Shirley. But on the application I put Comanche and it asked for another tribe. Well, she's Hawaiian, so I put Hawaiian down. Well, just looking at the application, which Donna shouldn't have done, she said, well, I have to contact the Caddo Tribe, and I didn't say Caddo Tribe on there, I said Hawaiian. But, anyway, I said -- well, I called Shirley and I sent the information to her so that she would have it, and Donna was supposed to get ahold of her. Donna did not get ahold of her. Donna did not even fax her any information or a letter, faxing a letter asking if she was on there. She didn't do any of that. And that's what -- Willie was in there with me, and he can tell you that that's what we discussed and that's what we did, and she did not follow through on any of it. MR. SAPCUT: Get rid of Donna. MRS. HENDRIX: She is incompetent. She is very incompetent. MR. BURGESS: We have a motion on the floor. Do you want to talk about that audit, enrollment audit, Bob? MRS. HENDRIX: And Mike, Bunky had mentioned, too, about a -- somebody coming in and auditing. That is -- the Bureau, like I said, has come in and audited. My file, they didn't have a file on me the first time. The second time they asked, they had a file on me, but they couldn't see it. The Bureau was told they couldn't see my file. So that told me right there then what have they got to hide. So somebody is going to have to go -- you can't have an audit done when there's already false information in a file, because you're going to come out with the same findings. And we all know that there is paperwork that slips into folders that aren't supposed to be there. So you're going to have to overcome that objective first. If there's false information in there, then an auditor is going to say, well, by the information here, they come out with the same conclusion. So it's going to have to be done another way to where that's not the process, unless everybody comes up here and is able to see their own file and tell you what's correct in it and approve it, because I never seen mine. MR. BURGESS: Last statement. Tommy? MR. TOM NARCOMEY: Maybe not a BIA audit, but maybe some kind of federal forensic audit. Some kind of investigative audit to clear it up, somebody that will look at the document and tell you whether it's false or not. A real thorough forensic federal investigative audit from day one. That way you clear up the whole enrollment department. It might work. MR. BURGESS: One of the things that we're faced here, to go back to day one, when was it, 1963? Who was here when the KCA split up? I mean, were y'all in attendance in the meeting? Were y'all there when they started talking about the rolls and bringing this up, and who was on the roll then or not? I mean, how far are we going to take this, ladies and gentlemen? We can't spend a lot of time and money on it. While we all think that so and so might be say "illegal" on the rolls, you know, we can't say that. We've lived and accepted with a lot of them on the roll. And I -- how much money are we going to -- how much money and time are we going to spend on it? MR. NARCOMEY: I would say go back the past seven to eight years, maybe 10 at the most. MS. ISAAC: And not nitpick at one person's family. There's got to be a way -- you know, I don't know how our enrollment office begins to even get their information. Do they need my birth certificate, my Social Security number? They need all of that, but they don't have it in my folder. It was all nothing. MR. BURGESS: If I can recall, and I'm not saying I'm right, once we got the contract from the BIA, we picked up their policies and procedures. MS. ISAAC: Exactly, because I talked to Emahoola up there. He said they have nothing to do with our database. Once they took it over -- because Donna was blaming them, Donna was blaming the bank, Donna was blaming everybody but her five little girls in her office. MR. BURGESS: What I'm saying is if it's a 638 contract, we agreed to abide by the federal rules and guidelines that were in place at that time. And if we modify something, we have to make sure we follow the federal guidelines. If we're going to do that, that's the first thing we have to do. MS. AITSON: They're just covering up for Donna. MR. BURGESS: Again, it's the interpretation of the constitution, if we follow that. That's the point for now what was done in the past, sometimes some laws we've got to live with. MS. ISAAC: What was done in the last two weeks, two-and-a-half weeks, you know, should be corrected. There's too many things that's been done -- MR. BURGESS: To that point, we've talked about --you don't update the whole enrollment list, you only send in those that need to be updated, new corrections and changes. And I think that's what has happened here. They sent in a whole updated list of everybody when you should have just sent in the changes. And the computer can merge those easier then getting a whole list and starting from scratch every year. So we're working on that with her. We've already sat down with her to establish another meeting here. But, yes, Carol, and then we'll need a second on this motion. MS. HALL: What I was going to say, why does this girl that's in charge of enrollment send you a letter a week before to tell you that you can't get an attorney or you can't do anything? That you got to come up here and only two people, the one person that's going to -- that they're going to disenroll can come up here? I know when I came up here, we got a letter. Just a day before she got the certified letter. And I think that's wrong, because my daughter is half Comanche, and she was disenrolled and that was wrong. And you know, because you're the one that with the stroke of a pen let her go on the roll. She has been a Comanche all these years. You've sent her to school three times, you've sent her every place. And then when it came time, they took her off the roll, and the girl is half Comanche. MR. BURGESS: Was that during the open enrollment period that she changed rolls or what? MS. HALL: Yes. No, we didn't have a complex in 1980, and she was put on the roll by the Kiowa Tribe -- I mean on the Kiowa Tribe when she was born because her and I were in the hospital for six months. And they took it upon themselves to put her on the Kiowa roll. We didn't even know she was on the Kiowa roll. And she was on the Comanche as a Comanche, had a card, everything, and then decided at 18. MR. BURGESS: And got service from us. MS. HALL: You were the one that put her on there. Wallace was the one that took her off, after sending her to school and everything else and her being Comanche all these years. It really doesn't make her any difference now, but it hurt her awful bad after all that time. MR. BURGESS: There's a lot of that that's going on. MRS. HENDRIX: Well, the constitution says it's supposed to be available for inspection at all reasonable times, so I would believe that anybody could come in and request their file. MS. HALL: She was not -- she was taken off that roll and then -- MS. ISAAC: We need to have an open meeting with all six of those girls from the enrollment sitting up there so we can ask them questions. MS. HALL: Yeah, instead of just that one, we need all of them. MR. BURGESS: Gentlemen, do I have a second on this enrollment? MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: Second. MR. BURGESS: Mr. Narcomey did enrollment. I'm sorry, we're going to move -- MRS. NARCOMEY: After listening to everybody, one place you can find who is the Comanches is the original enrollment. I don't know what year it is, but 1901, I guess, is when the allotments. And believe it or not, I have something here that may apply to this. It's a woman named Sanawas. She's Comanche. You might have heard of her. She went -- when we were prisoners at Fort Sill, her and her husband left with another couple. And when the enrollment was started, Mam-sook-a-wat and I think Yellow Fish went. They knew where she was. How they could tell being so far, but they knew where she was. So she came back to apply for allotment. She wasn't even given any land, but she was enrolled. The woman that came to be her daughter, her name was Pascheta. She had two children and they both died. This woman wasn't her daughter. But there was a court. And Mam-sook-a-wat, Monroe Attacapap, Perconnic, Henry Pohocsucut, Quoyah, Quoyah's sister, Hermabitty; Pascheta, husband of Pas-che-ti, they were all witnesses. Some other witnesses was Ca-va-yo Pahdahpony, I can't pronounce this other name (Parri-a-quit-tap), Komah, Arrushe, Jack Per-mum-so. And Komah saw Sanawas across Medicine Bluff Creek. And this is real interesting. And how I got ahold of it, since it was a court hearing, Joe Attocknie knew I was kin to some of these people. I think that's why he gave me the court. And so this would be really interesting. And I brought it because I thought we might -- I don't know why I brought it, but I brought it today. MR. BURGESS: Okay. MRS. NARCOMEY: I was reading it because I knew that Quoyuah's sister was Hermabitty. That'd be my mother's relative. And Henry Pohocsucut, the original Pohocsucut was named Pehakah (phonetic), but the Pohocsucuts -- anyway, I could tell you all day. MR. BURGESS: All right. Thank you, Mrs. Narcomey. Delores, Ms. Aitson? You stood up. MS. AITSON: Yes. I hate to interrupt you. I know you're always saying you have a big agenda and you need to get through, but my heater has gone out in my house and I need to get back home and see if I can get someone to fix it. But what I was here for was I want this body of people to hear what exactly is going on. My son was put on executive -- I mean administrative leave. For how long, I don't know. And for what reason, nobody knows. But this man here knows everything. And I just want you people to know, all those of you that have been through children's court, if there's any of you here, you need to be well aware that Joseph Aitson has done his job. And that's what he does, is he's a court clerk. He does it diligently. He has never, ever been reprimanded in the eight years that he gave this tribe. And he's never given anyone any thought, trouble or anything to call him down for any reason or to be questioned like you people have done. You, Michael Burgess. And I'm going to tell you why. This man sitting right here, his sister said that he wouldn't come to the meeting because you said these men were crooks. And if you were going to come down for a meeting, it better be for good business. That's bad, because we're Comanches. You got in here to work for us, remember that. I'm very, very upset with you people for doing him the way he does -- did, because of those people, those two judges that are asking for more money. They started out -- when he Tosee was a judge, Buster Parker, they got $100 for being judges. Now these judges are getting $500. And they're hollering and saying Joe has authority over this and blah, blah, blah, and going to you guys and running to Mike, running to the TA. He doesn't have authority over that. He has no authority but to take the minutes of everything that goes on in children's court. And yet you, Mike, are listening to Rita, you're listening to Cornelia. They want $1000 a meeting. Can you imagine? That's like being paid a lawyer. That's ridiculous. Y'all better think, because I'm on the warpath. When you step on my children's toes, you're stepping on me. Most of all you, you remember that. How you got in here, you were appointed. I wished you weren't, because I would have a petition going strong on you. MR. BURGESS: We have a second on this motion here, gentlemen, to approve this list, Resolution 180-09. All those in favor signify by saying "aye." (Aye.) MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same sign. All those abstain, same sign. Motion passed. Bob, you want to tell us about this next resolution, Joseph Eve? MR. TIPPECONNIE: Resolution 181-09 has to do with the party that does the audit of the nation. Joseph Eve is the one to do it for this past fiscal year, which we just completed October -- excuse me, end of September and it's pretty nice to see that we'll finally have an audit on the year we just completed. We worked very hard to get that going. So now Joseph Eve is employed to do the audit. And so this resolution authorizes that they be the auditing firm to conduct that audit. MR. BURGESS: Any questions, gentlemen? This is what, the third or fourth year for them? MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yes. MR. BURGESS: Just to let you guys know, this is good policy not to use the same auditing firm more than four years in a row. MR. TIPPECONNIE: It will be the last year for them. MR. BURGESS: Do they have a time line? Have they been given a time line? MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yes. Our constitution, we run into problems with the constitution, which requires that we have an audit in place, you know, prior. When we finish the fiscal year's, we have to get all these records in order, and that's our financial firm, Finley & Cook. So we've been trying to get it in a very aggressive time frame. They're already underway, I have to say that. They're already working so that we can try to get it in January, but I don't know if we -- what likely will happen in advance of the General Council or the Council in April, we may have an unaudited audit. At least we may have some information to present. Because I think we're trying to get the time line so we can get the audit done, but it takes a while to do the audit. MR. BURGESS: Right, as large as we are now. So do I hear a -- have a motion? MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: Motion. MR. BURGESS: Motion made by Mr. Kosechequetah. MR. NARCOMEY: I second. MR. BURGESS: And second by Mr. Narcomey. All those in favor signify by saying "aye." (Aye.) MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same sign. All those abstain, same sign. Motion passes. One item for housekeeping, ladies and gentlemen, we did not get an approved resolution for our KCA Programs, so this resolution is authorizing KCA to go ahead and spend down the money that's been authorized by the Kiowas, the Apaches and now us Comanches. Gentlemen, have y'all read the resolution? Are there any questions? MR. TIPPECONNIE: I make a motion to approve. MR. NARCOMEY: Mr. Chairman, before I vote on this, what do we do with this 250,000? MR. BURGESS: That money comes from a trust set aside for KCA land use. MR. NARCOMEY: Right, I understand that, but once it gets here? MR. BURGESS: We send our motion over to KCA, then they have the authority to withdraw down those funds from the Bureau. So, Bob, did you make this? MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yes, I made the motion. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Yes, I'd like to know how this money is spent. Can the tribe get an audit of those funds to see where they go and how they are spent? They've set out there and the tribe has put up a lot of money for the operation of that. We see no progress or anything. Well, where does all the money go? We were never provided a balance sheet to see where the money's going. MR. BURGESS: They have their operating budget, and it's only 250,000. But you can see that by going down and requesting a copy, but we'll send her a letter, to Pewo, requesting them to furnish an audit of the past -- we can ask for the last three years. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yes, we can. MR. BURGESS: And bring it up here. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: An audit of all three tribes. MR. BURGESS: Of the KCA's expenditures? It's only 250,000. We all have to vote on that and approve 250,000. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I realize that. But what I'm saying is I'd like to see the breakdown, the balance sheet. MR. BURGESS: You want to see the profit and loss statement and income and all that? UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Yes. MR. BURGESS: We're writing a letter to her now asking her to furnish us that information for the last three years at least. But you can write a letter to Ms. Pewo at KCA requesting to see that, and she's going to show you that it's 250,000 per year. I thought you were asking for us to get an audit of the Kiowas and Apaches. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: No, just the whole KCA. MR. BURGESS: That's Ms. Pewo. MS. ISAAC: Is that part of what's happening at the Southwestern Hospital? Is that -- nothing? MR. BURGESS: No, they got, what was that Darrell, Brownsfield? MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: Yeah, there was a large loan through ASCOG, and that's fully -- MR. WHITEWOLF: How was KCA authorized to borrow that money if they're obligated to keep that hospital up? MR. BURGESS: They're an independent body. As long as they're in good standing with a financial institution. Now, they're also supposed to be a nonprofit. But they're able to do that if they do their financing correctly. MR. WHITEWOLF: Yeah, but their organization parasites off the three tribes. MR. BURGESS: Well, we're getting tired of that. But that was authorized by congress. Congress said that. MR. WHITEWOLF: Yeah, but why did that entity that's supposed to get permission from their respective tribes, why were they able to obligate themselves for that much money? MR. BURGESS: Darrell or Ed? MR. MAHSEET: We came upon that as three tribes to get that because we were under obligation. The city started putting pressure on the three tribes to get that cleaned up, because it was hazardous and it had hazardous material in there. We searched around, we looked around, and ASCOG came up with the solution that we could go to Brownsfield, but ASCOG was the one who, I guess, kind of initiated the project. And they -- we approved a loan through there and obligated what we had kind of as a leverage. And it was approved and they were able to go in and clean it up. So now KCA, if they want, they have the obligation to go in there, and they can either lease it out, sell it, or I believe the last discussion we had is they were actually looking to sell it, to go ahead and get out of it. MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: Or the city might be interested in it. It just now got to a place where we can go in there, we can tour people in and bring in prospects, see what we can use. MR. BURGESS: For purchase? MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: Yeah. MR. BURGESS: The purchase of that is to repay any loan that we made for ASCOG. MR. MAHSEET: Yes. Everything would be paid off before it was actually turned over. MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: It's been a headache and bad deal for many years, and just to get it taken care of is what the tribes really want to do. MR. BURGESS: I know that one of the problems they had was when it was turned over to KCA, the people who had owned it thought they got rid of their problem, but they are still liable for some of the cost and expense of cleanup because it should have been done before they gave it to anybody. So Ms. Pewo and the body are going to be looking at that avenue with the attorneys. MR. MAHSEET: We're realizing that, too, with Fort Sill Indian school. MR. BURGESS: With the Indian School coming up, it's going to be a big problem. MR. MAHSEET: When they gave it to us, we are liable for anything in there. So all that remediation that is in there, we're liable for it on our part as KCA. MR. BURGESS: And there should have been some disclosure. At that time, like it was given in the '70s -- when was it given, do you remember, Roderick? I think it was in late '70s. MR. WHITEWOLF: Twelve years ago. MR. MAHSEET: I think about the mid '70s. MR. BURGESS: Because I was there when Uncle Gillis was in the hospital, and about four or five years later it was given over to the KCA. MR. TOM NARCOMEY: It's a good ideal to have a different accounting firm to do the audit, because, you know, that way we have no conflict with Finley & Cook auditing their own books. MR. TIPPECONNIE: They don't audit their own books. MR. BURGESS: No, they don't. MR. TOM NARCOMEY: Oh, they never did? Okay. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yeah. No, they can't. They're certified. They can't do that. MR. TOM NARCOMEY: On the annual budget, we probably need to put a budget to start establishing our own accounting department. I don't know what they were -- what -- we got no accounting department. But I don't know if we've got hired people to, you know, take over bits and pieces, or wean us off of the Finley & Cook or however you say it. MR. BURGESS: Well, we are in that discussion, and we'll start with the chief financial officer, highly experienced. MR. TOM NARCOMEY: I don't know. We're still at risk, and people are tired of me saying that. I guess we're still at risk status, and we're still looking for our 3 million, missing 3 million. It's gone somewhere, but I hope we find it some day. I mean, I don't know. MR. NARCOMEY: Drawing interest. MR. TOM NARCOMEY: I just thought I'd bring those up because it's from the past. That's all from the past administrations. MR. BURGESS: All right. I hear you. We're getting this straight. MR. TIPPECONNIE: We need a second. MR. MAHSEET: I second. MR. BURGESS: Second made by Mr. Mahseet here on this resolution approving Joseph Eve. All those in favor signify by saying "aye." (Aye.) MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same sign. All those abstain, same sign. Ladies and gentlemen, we have before us a resolution from Comanche Nation College whereby they're changing their charter. But we're going to make a motion to -- we're going to make a motion to table it, because we have some concerns and some input on it. And it will come back on the table in January. We'll notify the college about it. MR. WHITEWOLF: Have they ever been accredited? Six months ago Gene Pekah said they were two weeks away from getting accredited. MR. BURGESS: They went to the higher learning commission, which is part of -- I forgot their title, the big company, but that's the one that commissions the colleges and universities. And they had a response, I think it was just in mid November. They've got about five points on his questionnaire of about 48 questions that they have to respond to. One of them had to do with the council's resolution, it's charter, documentation. Another had to do with finances and completing their audit. So it's very close now. They go back in March, I believe. So it won't be accreditation, but once they get through this process of initial accreditation, then they can start proceeding with other grants and funding from congress on their status. And they will be given preliminary approval of accreditation and then they go forward. It will take another two years to get complete accreditation once they get past this next step. That's how I understand it. I'm no expert, but that's how I understand it. MS. NOWELL: Correction, Mr. Chairman. They were told that right now they are ineligible. So the direction for accreditation they gave changed to go to what used to be called ACCSCT, which is an accreditation for career and technical colleges. However, in order to do that, you have to show that a majority of your programs have vocational-technical learning objectives. MR. BURGESS: Well, I wasn't aware of that, Mrs. Nowells. They just had their meeting here about three weeks ago and they hadn't informed me of that. MS. NOWELL: They're changing their direction and going as a technical career college. However, speaking on the charter, we're still not following the charter, right? Quarterly the president is supposed to be bringing in reports to this body on the status of the college and its finances. That has never happened. The college council is also responsible for bringing any agreements that they are entering in for this body to approve. That has not happened. As such, there are problems. There is still -- nine months later, there is still no agreement with Cameron or any other educational entity for transfer of credits. So right now the only program, and it's tenuous, is the agreement that the college has with the Oklahoma Board of Nursing. That was just a clarification. MR. BURGESS: Thank you. A motion to table by Mr. Tippeconnie. MR. NARCOMEY: Second. MR. HENSON: I'll second. MR. BURGESS: Second by Mr. Henson and Mr. Narcomey. MR. NARCOMEY: Third. MR. BURGESS: All those in favor signify by saying "aye." (Aye.) MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same sign. All those abstain, same sign. Number 8, Resolution 184-09. MR. TIPPECONNIE: This is an application for a grant, repatriation grant. So we have to have a resolution that supports, endorses that we're okay with it. MR. HENSON: I'll make the motion we accept it. MR. BURGESS: Motion to accept Resolution 184-09. MR. NARCOMEY: I make that motion to approve, Mr. Chairman. MR. TIPPECONNIE: We need a second. MR. NARCOMEY: Oh, I second it. MR. BURGESS: Excuse me. Hang on a second, Bob. Motion to approve Resolution 184-09 made by Mr. Narcomey. Second, please? MR. TIPPECONNIE: Mr. Henson made the motion. Mr. Narcomey seconded. MR. BURGESS: Oh, that's what it was. Okay. Mr. Henson made the motion, seconded by Mr. Narcomey. All those in favor signify by saying "aye." (Aye.) MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same sign. All those abstain, same sign. MS. ISAAC: Is that a grant from the Comanche Tribe or are they putting in for a grant? MR. TIPPECONNIE: Putting in for a grant. MR. BURGESS: They're submitting for a grant, yes. MR. VOELKER: Could we have the resolution read? MR. BURGESS: The entire thing? I'll give you the last whereas. "The Comanche Business Committee has appointed the Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act (NAGPRA) Program Director with the responsibility of ensuring compliance with the NAGPRA; and "Now therefore be it resolved, that the Comanche Business Committee hereby supports the NAGPRA Program Director's initiative to apply for a FY '10 NAGPRA Repatriation Grant for the retrieval and reburial of ancestral Comanche remains, pursuant to Federal Register." MR. TIPPECONNIE: That was the notice in the federal register to apply. MR. VOELKER: So the director is listed as director, not by name? MR. BURGESS: Not by name, as director, by position. MR. WHITEWOLF: Mike, you know when Fort Sill was going to build that warehouse there, and we had -- the tribe sent -- we sent somebody out there to check the ground or whatever? They didn't get anybody from NAGPRA, they got somebody from the museum, Phyllis Wahahrockah. They got her to go out there and, I guess, witness the excavation and stuff like that. Why didn't NAGPRA go out there? MR. BURGESS: I'm not aware. Bill, do you have a response? MR. VOELKER: At the time, Phyllis was the only one within the tribe with a sound background in archaeology to step in quickly, because things were moving very quickly. Actually at the point that she was on site, Mr. Tippeconnie was there, the Army actually lied to us. They gave us a schedule where they were not going to start disturbing the ground until a certain day. They jumped it by over a week, and so Mr. Tippeconnie had to go into action. Ms. Wahahrockah had to go into action. And they were able to oversee things. In the meantime we were able to go to a personal friend that we have in Texas who got the Secretary of Defense and Secretary of the Army and stop the bulldozers. They had the bulldozers and everything in place. They were going to start digging. But that's why we had to move quickly, and she was the only qualified person. So we thank her for that role. MR. BURGESS: Okay. Motion passed. Let's move onto Resolution 185-09. This is resolution on the CBC and signature authority on payment requests. Discussion, please? I think we, in our discussions -- MR. TIPPECONNIE: Do you want the -- I think it would be wise to read to the whereas under the 83-08. MR. BURGESS: "Whereas, Resolution 83-08 previously designated signature authority." This resolution would rescind that authority and present this: "By this Resolution to designate the following: Payment requests below $5000 will bear the signatures of the Tribal Administrator and the Secretary/Treasurer. If the Secretary/ Treasurer is absent for an extended period the Vice-Chairman or another Business Committee member will sign for the Secretary/Treasurer; payment requests over $5000 will be signed by two Business Committee members, the Secretary/Treasurer and the Vice-Chairman, or other Business Committee members if these two positions are not available." My discussion about it is $2500 or less, I'd prefer to see that. MS. ISAAC: When there's a stack of papers and people sign it, is there a red letter or something to let you know that it's more than $5000? MR. BURGESS: On the payment request there's a specific amount that's being requested for this project, this payment, or this activity, and that's the kicker. That tells you the authority signatures, the authority line to sign and approve anything over $2500 and those underneath $2500. MS. ISAAC: I know what you're saying, but in the past I heard that the chairman did his signature, signature, signature, you know, without really looking at the amounts of anything. So is there like a stamp to alert you that there is more than that amount there? MR. TIPPECONNIE: You should be looking at the amounts. MS. ISAAC: You should. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yeah, you shouldn't be signing it except to look what it's to do, who's authorizing it, from what director, and the amount, and whether they have the money in their budget. So they have to show their budget, deduct it from their budget and show a balance. They can't be spending in the red. MS. ISAAC: All that should be done, but like I said, in the past, that's what's happened. He signed, he signed, he signed. He trusted the -- he trusted the person that brought it to him. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Well, I think what we're trying to do, then, to further, you know, make sure we're doing the smart thing, is we're changing the amounts here. You know, the Chairman is saying 2500. We have in this 5000. So it's going to be -- at a certain amount here, it's going to be two CBC looking at that, so two eyes plus the TA. So there's a number of persons, you know, that will be looking at it. MR. BURGESS: Gentlemen, I'm asking y'all to approve 2500, not 5000. My desire to see this is that it gives a better input over items that come at you at 800 or $1000 or 1200. And if you see a project that should be coming in at $5000, anything over that, it gives us the responsibility to see that we are meeting the requirements and it's in the budget. Now, I'm bringing this up in light of some events where we've gone into a project and we had different payment requests coming in and the costs to do that were accumulated. Added on 800, added on $1000, but you saw only that one pay request. You didn't see the entire project and the expense that it was going to incur. It was beyond an acceptable amount. Because anything at $5000 has to be audited. We've gotten in trouble. And you review our recent audit, we weren't paying attention to the entire project. We looked at one single paper. But with 10 papers adding up to $1000, you've spent $10,000 on a project, and you're not realizing it until it all comes due at the end of the month and you see the cost incurred for a simple project. When we start doing that, we've lost sight of the big picture. And that's why I'm discussing with the CBC that we, the CBC, are going to be responsible. Because at $5000, that's your federal limit, your federal line for calling equipment or capitalization. If we go beyond that, then we get questioned about why did we do it. And sometimes we're going to sit here and say, well, we didn't know we did it, because you didn't pay attention to the cumulative cost, you just saw the paper that said 800, and a week later you get something else added onto it that says another 700. Well, that was a week ago. How are you going to remember all of that? So any projects that we get, whether it's construction or equipment, we need to be aware of it. Because we got dinged in our audits for the last 10 or 12 years. We didn't have a current inventory. Now we're getting dinged that we don't have inventory of our lands. We don't have all of our estimates of the land we bought and brought in. Now we're working on those, bringing those in. So our audits next year should be a lot better, closer to the A plus, not just the area. And this is just the tribal government. It's not everything else out there. All the other entities have their own audits. And those come into play because they reported to us. Hang on, Norman. And then we get dinged if those other entities, their audits aren't complete and done to us on time. Yes, Norman? MR. NAUNI: So this $2500 -- I want to understand, because I'm the property director. I need to understand this. Now if it's less than 2500, you don't have to worry about the bid process and all this? MR. BURGESS: No, that doesn't -- MR. TIPPECONNIE: No, that's separate. MR. BURGESS: This is just an approval process on expenditures. MR. TIPPECONNIE: This is approving pay requests. MR. BURGESS: Mr. Asepermy's not here, but in our discussions going on here, he was very vehement that we -- MR. NAUNI: Does this refer to salaries? MR. BURGESS: Can I read it for to you again? This resolution is to designate the following: Payment requests below $2500 will bear the signatures of the Tribal Administrator and the Secretary/Treasurer. If the Secretary/Treasurer is absent for an extended period, the Vice- Chairman or another business committee member will sign for the Secretary/Treasurer. Payment requests over $2500 will be signed by two business committee members, the Secretary/Treasurer and the Vice-Chairman, or other business committee member if these two positions are not available. Now I know that as politician I can be called a crook at any time, I can be labeled a thief, I can be accused of various crimes or inhumane acts. I have never stolen money from this organization or any other. I'd prefer to tell you that I have not treated anybody inhumanely, even a dog, but I see that my committee doesn't want to approve the Chairman as a CEO or a member of the executive committee to be a signatory to this. And Mr. Asepermy himself, Mr. Mahseet, we had these discussions, and it's the positions, those who are here on a daily basis. The ones who are going to be held to the highest responsibility will be your executive committee. Mr. Tippeconnie is here on a daily basis. I work hard to be here on a daily basis with all the committee meetings or community events I have to go to. The vice-chairman has been here a whole lot of times, you know. I just want to see, you know, things done better. We've come across some areas where we expended too much money, or we didn't do enough investigation as to the true costs before we started it. And it's a little like going in to repair a home. You don't know what it's going to look like until you take the walls out and the floor out, and all of a sudden your costs go up because the plumbing is bad, wiring is bad. You have to add onto that. What we need to have is a CFO who understands tribal government and its accounting systems to help bring in this situation. We should not have to even sit here and question the authenticity, the costs, the structural management structure that's going on here. A good CFO is going to point that out to us and tell us, look, you're exceeding a guideline here. You're going to put yourself into another situation for an audit or a question on your audit. I would recommend you do this. And that's precisely what happened to me in other positions. If I didn't pay attention to the big picture and the bottom line, I had a financial officer walk over to my office: Mike, I know what you want to do here, but you're going to have to do it differently, and you're going to have to follow these guidelines. And that's what a CFO is going to tell us. Currently we're using Finley & Cook, but they're not here on a daily basis. So we're discussing bringing in a CFO. We'll do this after January. One who understands our business. But, gentlemen, I prefer to see -- if you're not going to give me signature authority as the chairman, I want to see $2500 in here, not 5000. MR. WHITEWOLF: Well, why haven't we, why haven't y'all created a good accounting department? What's so hard about that? MR. BURGESS: I've only been here six months. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Well, anything like that takes skill. You know, you have to have skilled people in place. We can't say that we can't do it, we can do it, but we would have to move into it. We've had discussions saying how can we stage, if we want to take it over, how can we stage the move into this? So we've had those discussions, and we're still discussing them. So we haven't said that Finley & Cook's going to be here forever. But we have to equip ourselves, you know. We have to have proper people in place. And once we do that, yes, we can do it. MR. WHITEWOLF: But are y'all working on it? MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yes, we've had discussions on it. MS. ISAAC: Mike, when they took the authority away from the chairman, that was toward Wallace's end of his -- and he put his buffalos in a row before he left. So, you know, he did what he wanted to, and he's still doing it, so y'all are just going to have to figure out a way to undo a lot of this mess that happened when he was still there. I love Wallace like a brother, but, you know, there's a lot of things that he did that was wrong, and we sat out here and watched it. MR. NARCOMEY: Mr. Chairman, for the record, 2005, in June, when I got first got on board, the main thing I really wanted and I still want it is accountability, because this tribe never did have any accountability at all. Jeep Wahnee, I was elected with him. I tried to get him to push to get a CPA, or comptroller, CFO, one of the two. And then when Edward, you can ask him back there, I tried to get him to do it, but we never did have the vote to get it. And you can ask Tippeconnie here. He knows as soon as he got on board, I hit him up with the same thing, to get a CFO so we could have accountability for the tribe. Now we're finally realizing that that's what we need. But I've been in what, four years now? Ever since '05. '09 now, four years. It just takes time for us to do things, like Mr. Whitewolf said. But it looks like we're going to finally get one. MR. TIPPECONNIE: I have to say this, though, too: You know, we haven't been just sitting here not doing things. You know, you can look at a lot of these audits and how we've progressed. You know, we did all these back-to- back audits in a short time just since I've been in office. We've put them in order. We were way behind and we've gotten on top of a lot of things. You just can't do it all at once. And we knew if they are back to back, you're going to have a repeat of some of the same things, but we know what they are. The chairman mentioned on these lands, that's one of the last things. We're working on that. So when we get the land, we do that property with Norman here, we got all our property accountable now. We've got our buildings with the values set. We've done a lot of good things. One thing I might say about this, too, it's not just the CBC when they look at a payment request. The Tribal Administrator has to work in a good budget planning mode with his directors. They have to prepare good budgets. And when they have a budget, if it says they're going to build, like construction or whatever it is, we're going to spend over 5000, it should be approved in a budget. The budget approves that. So then when we come forward with pay requests, it ought to be giving us that accounting code on the pay request which said this is the amount we have. You know, we can put that line out there. This is the total amount for that budget. This is what the balance is. So it's not just with the pay request. There's a whole listing, budget and planning process. It's very, very -- it has to be all the way through with the TA, the directors, all their programs, and then we get to the pay requests. MR. WHITEWOLF: Well, you talk about the budget process, you talk about using some problem creating a budget, but yet I understand that y'all gave gaming over $6 million and they're not even budgeted. We didn't vote on that on that budget. Where did y'all get the money for that? MR. TIPPECONNIE: The gaming has a responsibility to operate. MR. WHITEWOLF: I understand that. But why didn't they be competitive like the rest of the people that requested budgets? Why didn't They submit their budget? MR. TIPPECONNIE: They submit it to the CBC. Now, we may say -- MR. WHITEWOLF: But that's not to the people. That's not what our constitution says. We're supposed to have a budget that we all vote on. Why were they allowed to be so scared to submit their budget to the people? MR. TIPPECONNIE: I don't think they're afraid to do that. You know, one thing is, sometimes -- MR. WHITEWOLF: Well, why didn't they? MR. TIPPECONNIE: Well, maybe we should do that, see. But right now, it wasn't done, that's correct. But the CBC did approve it. MR. WHITEWOLF: Y'all couldn't approve anything over $3 million. There's a resolution saying that y'all can't mess with anything over $3 million. You know, y'all misappropriated is what y'all did. I know where it came from, it came from gaming. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yeah, it comes from gaming. To operate casinos, they have to have a budget. So I think the question you're raising is it should be on the budget when we vote on it? MR. WHITEWOLF: Most certainly. MR. TIPPECONNIE: It's a different accounting principal, you know, and I know -- MR. BURGESS: You're talking about that resolution to incur debt, was it not, or to go into a loan? MR. WHITEWOLF: What is the expenses for payroll and stuff like that? That's incurred debt. MR. BURGESS: No, that was about a loan, taking on a loan or doing investments that were in excess of $3 million. That's what that resolution was for. MR. WHITEWOLF: It says expenditure of $3 million, is what the resolution says. MR. BURGESS: Expenditure of tribal funds, but that is not tribal funds until it's earned. MR. WHITEWOLF: Gaming is tribal funds. If they didn't have a tribe, you couldn't have gaming. MS. CRAIG: I have a question, and this is to the CBC members. You're talking about a CFO. I'm sitting here licensing, and I just wonder why or who -- I have an idea who, but I'm wondering why you don't want to have Mike on there as a CFO. Is there animosity between, amongst you men that you can't get along? You want to go out and hire somebody else and give them money? MR. TIPPECONNIE: That's a separate position. MR. BURGESS: She meant CEO. MR. TIPPECONNIE: The CFO is different from the CEO. MR. BURGESS: We had this discussion in meetings, our open meetings here, or talked about it. It should be the three executive officers, because one of us three is always here. MS. CRAIG: My question is, there's been so much on the outside that I hear that I'm bringing to you men that you were elected by the people to do a good job. And he was elected at the General Council by getting nominated to do a job for the people. And yet sitting there at the table, you men don't seem to agree with him, and there's backbiting and -- don't shake your head, Mr. Tippeconnie. Right now I'm saying that some things come out that's not true. And maybe Mike's only been in there six months. But you know what? I could have been married 10 years and still not done anything right. You got to be doing something a long time to learn. Now, he's inherited a lot of problems from the past, and they can't be taken -- you can't undo that overnight. The previous administration, they inherited something instead of -- maybe they did something good, maybe they didn't, but what I'm saying is they did a lot of wrong, and he is correcting that wrong and he's trying to straighten it out. And you men are going to have to back him up instead of backbiting him. And I can point to each one of you, and I know exactly what I'm saying, and I can prove it. And especially Mr. TA. I really did vote for you. I really got out and campaigned for you, and I'm getting disappointed in the things that you're doing to Mike. So you're going to have to straighten up if you want people to back you up. And that's coming from me. MR. NELSON: Well, ma'am, in the second attack on myself -- (Applause.) MR. NELSON: Mike is my boss. You know, that's who I -- MS. ISAAC: Well, that's what you say here, but when you get in your office, you talk different. MRS. HENDRIX: And y'all tied the chairman's hands and he should have this authority. MR. BURGESS: We have a motion to be made here by Mr. Henson. He's come to an amenable solution to this. Mr. Henson? MR. HENSON: I want to make a motion to amend this to include the chairman and then move to pass it. MR. TIPPECONNIE: But do you want it changed to 2500? MR. HENSON: 2500, yeah. MR. BURGESS: So this resolution will read: By this resolution to designate the following: Payment requests below $2500 will bear the signatures of the Tribal Administrator and the Secretary/Treasurer. If the Secretary/Treasurer is absent for an extended period, the Vice- Chairman or Chairman or another business committee member will sign for the Secretary/Treasurer. Payment requests over $2500 will be signed by two business committee members, the Secretary/ Treasurer, the Vice-Chairman and/or Chairman or other business committee members if these two positions are not available, meaning if the other personnel, the executive committee are not there. "Be it further resolved, the Comanche Business Committee directs the Tribal Administrator to provide Finley & Cook the names of the directors of each Comanche Nation program and the names of the person responsible for approving expenditures from accounts without directors." That means like the fair account, church donations. A few of those where there's no staff but we do things for them. So that's the motion made by Mr. Henson. Do I have a second? MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: Second. MR. BURGESS: Second by Darrell Kosechequetah. MR. NARCOMEY: Call for the question. MR. BURGESS: Question's been called for. All those in favor signify by saying "aye." (Aye.) MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same sign. MR. MAHSEET: Nay. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Was yours nay? MR. MAHSEET: Nay. MR. BURGESS: Three ayes, one nay. Are you abstaining? MR. TIPPECONNIE: No. MR. BURGESS: Are you voting? MR. TIPPECONNIE: I'm voting. MR. BURGESS: Aye? Four ayes, one nay. Motion passes. MR. NAUNI: Mr. Chairman, I would like to just -- this committee, I know you already passed and approved it, but just to consider staff, because we already have a waiting period that's seemingly too long for the process that we have now. So it sounds like there's an added signature to the process, and it's madness before. So if y'all would, you know, work some kind of solution where it would be more smooth, that would be great. MR. BURGESS: This is a solution for our responsibilities, Mr. Nauni, in that anytime we're going to exceed $2500 on a simple project for purchase orders or something -- because most generally those orders under 2500 or more numerous than something over $2500. Those will be segregated out and processed quickly. MR. NAUNI: On the experience that I've had with Finley & Cook for six months now, when something is not documented, they will kick it back. They refuse to write a check. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yes. MR. NAUNI: For your information. MR. BURGESS: Correct. MR. HENSON: What this does, Norman. There was two people on there before on the signature, that was the TA and the Secretary/Treasurer. What this does, it extends that signature authority to anybody that is there. So if they're gone, or he's gone, it's going to get signed. What it did before, if either one of these two was gone, that held up the business. So that's why this resolution is out there. MR. TIPPECONNIE: It wasn't held up. MR. BURGESS: Well, actually, Bob, I'm not trying to argue, but -- we want to move on. But if there was a hold up, there was a snafu in some areas we thought, Norman, that you didn't see either, but experience brought those out, and that's why this is coming forward. That experience, I had the talk with my cohorts here, that experience brought it out. So we're going to move forward. We're going to amend the agenda here because Mrs. Tonips from Housing has brought us a document to swear in the new Housing board member. So ladies and gentlemen, we're going to have a swearing in right here for Mr. Tommy Johnson, who was nominated by the Board of Commissioners. MR. NELSON: Could I please ask this question? I know it's been passed. What I got here is payment requests below $5000? MR. BURGESS: 2500. That's amended to read 2500. MR. TIPPECONNIE: 2500. MS. ISAAC: Is that only for like capital improvement? MR. TIPPECONNIE: Just everything. MR. BURGESS: It's everything. MS. ISAAC: That's for like -- like I know on this grandmother's program, and I was expecting a check because my per cap was messed up. So now it's been a hole week since I've been asking the program, "Am I getting paid today." So now it's one of y'all that can sign those checks? How long does it -- is it these programs around here? MR. BURGESS: That's a service program, right, grandmothers, grandparents being -- MS. ISAAC: Right. So I applied for that and I'm on it right now, but it's been over a week now since I took my paperwork in. And the lady said, "Well, we haven't got your papers back yet." So now you'll have one extra person to sign that? And if it's -- if Willie doesn't like me, he's not going to sign my check? MR. BURGESS: As long as the documentation is behind that and it's under $2500, it goes to the TA, Secretary/Treasurer, someone else if the Secretary/Treasurer is not here, so we can keep those processed. MS. ISAAC: This is diddlywinks compared to what y'all get, but, you know, I do need my money. MR. BURGESS: No, no, it's everybody in your situation. It's like if we have someone going on training, and it's a conflict of interest for that signature authority for two people to be assigned to another person only, and there's only one person signing for me and signing for him. It's a little like only the president can sign for congress, and then the president says he can sign for all the congressmen, and it's not fair because you get in trouble that way. It's not a checks and balance. So things can go on that when he's out of the office, he didn't realize he signed off on something. MS. ISAAC: How long does it usually take, you know, for a program like that program to do? MR. BURGESS: Norman, do you have an idea on these payment requests, a week, two weeks? MR. NAUNI: Well, I always tell our vendors that we deal with three to 10 days just because that's enough, so we have enough cushion and it won't, you know, reflect our -- MR. BURGESS: Early on in our discussions here with our finance office, Mr. TA, I don't know if you remember, I was sitting with Finley & Cook at one of our meetings and we talked about the tribe should be better than the vendors. That anybody who does business with us, they don't expect a payment until the 15th if it's in by the 1st. If it's in after the 10th, they don't get the payment paper until the following month. Because you're telling me right now our vendors want to pay net 10/30, something like that. They want us to pay it all in three days or 10 days after the invoices. Right? MR. NAUNI: No, I didn't say that. I said I tell the vendors so they'll know that they're not going to have a check tomorrow. I say three to 10 days, the accounts that we have. This way they know that they're not going to expect that check, you know, four or five days. It's going to be at least 10 days max. MR. BURGESS: Okay. MR. NAUNI: But as to how long the process is, that would be my answer, three to 10 days. MR. NELSON: Mr. Chairman, on serviceables, like Ms. Isaacs is speaking of serviceables, it's usually five days, workdays. MS. ISAAC: Okay. When I called the lady and asked her, you know, she said, "Oh, it's not up to me, you know. It's gone," you know. So she couldn't even tell me how long it would take. MR. BURGESS: See, I had a reimbursable coming in and I asked them to put it on a rush. It was submitted on Monday and it came in on Friday, so that's a rush. All right. Yes, Gabby? MR. TOM NARCOMEY: I hate to bring this up. MR. BURGESS: Okay, don't bring it up then. MR. TOM NARCOMEY: With the tribe, we've got an inflow, our gaming, then we have the outflow, the cash. And the reason for our 30 percent cut in our budget, plus travel, and whatever that percent that was, may have been 40 percent overall. But our cash outflow for this past administration and some of this is that our $3 million loss, that was outflow. And let's see. What else? Wauqua Number 1 and Wauqua Number 2. I think one was 5.8 million, the other was 7 million. And now we got Wauqua Number 3. We're having cost overruns on our legal budget, so that's more an outflow, so there's more unforeseen costs. MR. BURGESS: Tommy, hold on. Right now, the attorney costs for the first quarter are less than a third of the full budget that was approved. We've worked with them, and because we do a lot of consulting before we do something, it saved a lot of time, and we plan on it saving any dang lawsuits. So they're less than one-third of what our total budget for the year would be, and here we are the end of December. We're doing real good on the tribe's side of it, what we budgeted for their legal costs on the tribal government. MR. TOM NARCOMEY: Then we got the 638 nonreimbursement. I don't know if we're going to expect some loss from that, some of that nonreimbursement. I don't know. We got about 20 boards or something. And like the college has -- everybody on that board's out of state, and there's a big old expense and travel -- MR. BURGESS: We've discussed that in a resolution and that's coming under control. We're working on those, Tommy. MR. TOM NARCOMEY: Then the capital improvement outflow. You know, all those buildings, that's a lot of bucks out of there, but we need them. That's a good one. There's a lot -- and then our economic losses. We got seven businesses that our Economic Development created and that overall is a net loss. So we're going to have to shut down some of those businesses, maybe three or four, so we cut our losses. So we've got a lot of -- so I just thought I'd bring that up, our need for -- MR. BURGESS: I'm going over to my office and retrieve that Bible so we can do a swearing in. So if y'all need a coffee break -- (Break held.) (Tommy Johnson sworn in as Housing Board Commissioner.) MR. BURGESS: Back to the order of business. We're moving on to Resolution 186-09, Number 10, which establishes a quarterly drawdown of payments for the Comanche National Museum and Cultural Center. Motion being made by Mr. Tippeconnie. Question over here? MR. HENSON: Hang on just a minute, I lost it. There's a part in here -- MR. WHITEWOLF: Will they have to have their own accounting system? MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yes, they have to have all that. MR. HENSON: This says the museum will operate separately from tribal government, establishing their own administrative responsibility, including accounting and banking. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Just like all our entities do. MR. BURGESS: How is their payroll done? MR. TIPPECONNIE: It's done with their accounting. They have to have administrative matters inhouse. MR. BURGESS: The museum has their own payroll going? MR. TIPPECONNIE: No, they're going to get into it. MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: That's why these need to be authorized. They have the vendors and the people lined up, they have the accountant, they're looking into that, but you can't move forward with that until the drawdowns start taking place and you can pay people in that fashion. It will be just like our economic development, our enterprise, and our college, same type situation. They're going to take on those responsibilities. MR. BURGESS: They're not there currently. MR. TIPPECONNIE: But they have to be equipped before they're fully affected. MR. HENSON: Does that establish all kinds of banking accounts or just an account for the museum? MR. TIPPECONNIE: They'll likely do two things. They'll probably have a 501(c)(3) for the foundation, which will have a separate account, and then they'll have an account with all accounting codes with budget for the museum expenditures. MR. HENSON: I was just questioning that, because some of our entities established bank accounts where they shouldn't have. MR. TIPPECONNIE: They all have accounts. They do. Well, all our enterprises -- and the museum, if you look at the early prephases in here in this, we've already agreed to move them away from the TA. And then when we had the reorganization, it further approved their movement away, so they stand out there. Remember the reorganization chart, they stand out there like other entities. So they'll provide their own administrative responsibilities, like pay roll, accounting, and their bank account. But we still have the responsibility to oversee that as a CBC, because the board reports to the CBC. MR. BURGESS: Because of the budget process. MR. TIPPECONNIE: And the budget comes online. Yes, because the project, it will be online when we bring it to the voters to vote. MR. BURGESS: But with the advent of the museum going into a 501(c)(3), how soon would then come forward, Mr. Bigbee? MR. BIGBEE: We've looked into that. And, of course, the process itself is dictated by the IRS. We start the process, enlist the help of our legal staff and the board. There's some knowledge, or we've learned recently that there's been some attempts to start this process earlier. So we need to go back and research and find the records and see where we stand in the overall process. I understand this process can go as quickly as six months, sometimes it can take up to two years. We anticipate moving as rapidly as possible. Passing this resolution gives us the authority to move forward with the 501(c)(3). MR. BURGESS: Any other questions? MR. BURSON: Mike, does the museum board intend for the museum employees to have separate benefits from the tribe and not participate in the tribe's health benefits, vacation, 401(k)? MR. BIGBEE: It's our outstanding that we set up what's known as a pay portal that stays within the umbrella that covers the entire tribe. This separate pay portal sets us up as a separate entity and we manage, or our staff manages those functions. MR. BURGESS: That's an internal accounting function. Finley & Cook, are they going to be doing your accounting? MR. BIGBEE: They're under consideration. We've contacted, our staff has already put together a list of accountants that should be capable of handling the financial services. It's kind of a chicken/egg thing. We need this resolution to proceed to talk seriously with people so they know that we can actually strike a contract for those services. MR. TIPPECONNIE: I think one thing that was asked by Mr. Burson here was, you know, the matters like your insurance, or the 401(k.) You know, when we have the at-large kind of opportunity to work with these circumstances, we get a better price for the individual. And that's the way we operate with other entities now, you know. They're under -- like economic development, you want to speak to that? MS. NELSON: Under the health insurance, we're listed under the Comanche Nation, and we make the payments through Economic Development. Each entity that signs up makes that payment to the big fund for the health insurance. MR. BURGESS: 401(k)? MS. NELSON: 401(k) is through -- the funeral home's is through the nation. MR. BURGESS: Just the funeral home? MS. NELSON: Just the funeral home. The others -- because 401(k) participation depends on the profitability of the business. When they get to that point, they do participate. MR. BURGESS: But aren't the employees allowed to put it in anyway? MS. NELSON: Yeah. MR. BURGESS: They can elect to, with or without the match? MS. NELSON: Yeah, with the match. MR. BURGESS: With the match or without the match? They can start their own. MS. NELSON: Individuals, they can do it. If there's profit enough from that business, then it's maxed. It's not a blanket thing, 401(k). The health insurance is offered to all full-time employees. MR. BURGESS: Now, with that, Mr. TA, does that include disability, short and long term, with our coverage, or do we buy that separately? MS. NELSON: It's BlueCross BlueShield. It's the same thing under the nation right now. MR. BURGESS: No, I'm asking does the nation provide with our coverage short or long- term disability at our option? We can purchase? MR. NELSON: Yes. MS. NELSON: They have access to all of that. Those are supplemental insurances. They do have access to all that. MR. NELSON: I would hope they endeavor to become where they can get an endowment, you know, and donations. That, you know -- we look at them as, you know, reaching that status of being on their own and, you know, we're more than willing to -- you know, we've been doing it all along anyway. MR. BURGESS: I think the museum is going to pursue a 501(c)(3) status, which is more understandable. It's for corporations and foundations for donations and development. That's what they're going to be pursuing. I mean, that's allowable under IRS Resolution 76-71, but a lot of foundations don't recognize it or question it. They have to go through -- it's easier for them to do a 501(c)(3). MR. HENSON: Have you already established HR policies and procedures for your hiring and firing, what have you, as the museum? MR. BIGBEE: What we've done is adopt the policies that the CBC's already entailed. We've adopted them as interim documents because we feel like we'll have to make some adjustments for the way a museum operates versus the way a government service would operate. MR. HENSON: I was just wondering if y'all had thought about that since you're going out on your own. MR. BIGBEE: We've adopted these policies and also the procurement policies. And, again, the idea is that -- MR. HENSON: So your policies are basically like the tribe's policies? MR. BIGBEE: They are the tribe's policies. MR. BURGESS: We were both out there in the world. But at one point in time, the Buy Indian Act is something we're going to be considering here, too, and what that means to our people. Because Mr. Whitewolf and a few others mentioned buying the services of our people, so -- MR. BIGBEE: Well, I feel very strongly about that. For those of you who don't know, I served as the president of the American Indian Chamber of Commerce for several years, and that was one of our big pushes. We wanted to see more tribes put more teeth in that Buy Indian Act. And so that's something, from a personal standpoint, we're going to Buy Indian, if I have anything to say about it. MR. BURGESS: Well, you will. MR. BIGBEE: And also to add, Bunky, Comanche Preference is something that we already have in practice. MR. BURGESS: How many staff are you going to have? MR. BIGBEE: Right now, what do we have now? I think we have five full time. And really it just depends on what kind of programs we're going to operate and the kind of people we need to operate those programs. So it's going to vary and it's going to -- it's going to change. MS. ISAAC: Is it Comanche only? MR. BIGBEE: And it also really comes down to what kind of budget we have. MR. BURGESS: You'll have a limited budget from us. MR. BIGBEE: This is true. We understand. You know, we go in front of the General Council like everyone else. We go with our proposal and our request, and if the people see fit, then they'll vote it in. And if they don't, we'll live with what transpires. MS. ISAAC: These five people are all Comanche? MR. BIGBEE: No. MS. ISAAC: Comanche Preference? You know, when the museum first started, they used the people, some people from Elaine Noyebad, used some ladies from the 55 and Older Program at the employment office. And the museum, for some reason, decided that they didn't want these people, even though it was free labor. They were there, and the older people have a lot of input, just like Gladys. Do y'all have a historian that really, really, you know, knows the background and knows the people, knows the names, and can take you from here to wherever, the 1800s? And that's what we need. I mean, the museum is beautiful. I haven't been there in a long time because I was very disgusted with a lot of things, and I won't go until things change. But, you know, this is what I'm -- that's how come I was worried about it, because you need to hire Comanche people. You need to let the Elders have an input, and, you know, that's what -- the ground roots people. That's where it should have began, but it did not. And the chamber of commerce, I could say something about that. There's a lot of things that needs to be corrected. It looks pretty and you talk pretty, but, you know, where are the Indians? MR. BURGESS: Okay. We have a motion. MR. HENSON: I'll make a motion. MR. BIGBEE: As things progress, one of the things I envision how it working is that we have a board, there's seven members of the board, and -- MS. ISAAC: Appointed by who? MR. BIGBEE: -- their job is to take the community input, bring that to the board meetings, and through the board, we establish programs and things to address these needs. That's how it's supposed to work. So as ideas come up and other things that are important to the communities at large, then it's the responsibility of our board members to bring those to the board meetings so that we can address those issues. MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: I believe all the employees are Comanche except for one, and all the board members are Comanche. MS. ISAAC: That's important that all the board members, especially, are Comanche. You don't need anybody that's not a Comanche on that board. However, these board members need to reach out into the community, bring their input into everybody that's interested. I haven't seen that. MR. BURGESS: I'd like to make a comment, and we're going to move on. One thing that really helps us, Bev, is that there are a lot of people who are friends to our museum. And so sometimes foundations and corporations, you invite them to come in and sit on your body. They don't have to be a board member to vote. But if somebody's going to donate us hundreds of thousands of dollars, even millions of dollars for some activity, we want to recognize them. When you go into hospitals, you see a foundation tree or foundation walk with names on there, and donations made to this entity, and this corporation or this family or these individuals. So in the future, when they get the 501(c)(3) status, I'm sure they're going to do that. Because at some point in time you want to give recognition to those people who support our effort culturally, historically. You know, maybe books, and a lot of things can be given to the museum non-Indians have and they get a tax write off for them because they put a value on it. And because they're a 501(c)(3,) they put a value on it, they get X dollars deducted from their taxes, we get a benefit of their materials to our museum, and a whole story can be given out about that by Elders and children who come through there. So we will probably create, I don't know, a founders body, founders board, maybe non-Comanche, maybe non-Indian who are giving things to us with their money, so we show our appreciation. So we'll have to come up with that mechanism, and there's ways to do it. MS. ISAAC: That's what I'm saying. The Comanches, when it first started, all of them were excited about it, but most of them were left in the background. You know, this trust from the past where we tried to start something here and everything disappeared, and -- you know, everybody wants to be able to trust this place and to donate some things. But, you know, there's -- the trust is not there yet. MR. BURGESS: That's why from the very beginning when we discussed this, there was the 12 of us that sat on that body at the Shoshone reunion and we talked about this museum back in '01 and '02, and that's what we wanted. So that it would be strong enough to stand alone financially, have the trust in it because it has a repository, place to put things, and everyone that brings it there knows that it will be there and will stay there. And these are things that a lot of families held and were afraid to bring to the tribe because we weren't secure. And that's what we want this museum to be. MR. BIGBEE: Let me add that that sort of trust and that sort of relationship with the community takes time to develop. And we just opened our doors, what, two years ago? And so it takes time to do things like just the simple things, like getting that building into shape so that the roof doesn't leak on whatever might be donated. Those things take time, and building that trust is going to take time, too. MS. ISAAC: But the Comanches, we're not that big of a people here. We're here and we're interested. And when it first opened, all I saw was Lanny Asepermy's uniform here, Lanny Asepermy's uniform at the tribe, at the visitor's center, at the airport, and Lanny Asepermys' displays. You know, I honor the veteran, but -- MR. BURGESS: One of the things I've always wanted to see was our Voices of History where We're talking to all our elders who know this history, because we know a lot of families that have personal stories on their Elders. And over here soon, next month, we're going to make a resolution to name this hall, our gymnasium. Our resolution, we've been talking about Woogie Watchetaker, because we have so much culture that goes on in our hall there, about giving that building that name. George Woogie Watchetaker Hall. Some might say his name is Smith, but we all knew him as Woogie, or Uncle Woogie, or just Watchetaker. That's how we knew him in the community. He was a dancer, he was a ball player, he was on this body. You know, he was highly respected in our community. And so in the future, and when we do things like that, we want to bring that culture and that history back. MS. ISAAC: The best funeral, if you can say there's a good funeral, was when they had Woogie's funeral at the gym. That was wonderful. MR. BURGESS: Okay. But we want to move on. And I understand your concern and take it to their body -- MR. BIGBEE: Let me make one more comment. I think, Mike, you were involved way back in the early days when we first started talking about this, and my Uncle Reaves was involved in all this. And we took pains and efforts to do the planning with museum professionals, and we listened to a lot of input from the community. And we realized from the very start that the most important thing to our tribal members was that repository and that trust relationship and being able to collect the stories and preserve our culture. And that's really what it's all about. And at this stage of the game, we're at a point where there are board vacancies. We need people to be appointed to that board that understand that, buy into that vision, and then we press forward. That's where we're at. MR. BURGESS: Pat? UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I'm secretary/treasurer for the museum board, and I would like to add that the trust is there. We -- when Phyllis, our director, calls out for items, you know, artifacts to be on display, she gets calls all the time. And when we started that 50 Years of Powwow, at one time there we had five buckskin dresses on display. And, you know, those things are so valuable, not every one will just say, here, put my dress, you know, there. But we had five. And there are people calling with different things that they want to be exhibited, so it's there. And people look forward to coming to -- we have, like, receptions for whatever exhibits we have. We get a large number, 300 and 400, to come in and see what's there. And it's always a reminder that this museum belongs to everybody. And it's with the numbers of the Comanches, all the tribal members have, we got the museum. And I spoke to what Beverly was talking about. We had a board meeting the other night. And I, too, I'm for the Comanche people. I want them on our board. You know, and right now, it seems like you have to qualify to be on the board, but I say you qualify when you're a Comanche. That qualifies you to be on that board. So I know you have to have qualifications for the administrative part. And our director has mentioned her courses. She'll have two master's degrees, all her papers in order, and she is a go-getter. The Comanche Tribe should really be proud of Phyllis, because she's brought us from not anything, I guess you might say, they had a board then, to what we have now. She still has great ideas coming along the way. Those doors are just wide open to anybody who's interested, and hopefully be proud of our museum that we have there. So it's shaping up and I can just only say good things about it. MR. BURGESS: Good to hear that. That was a good show the other night. Mr. Tippeconnie's made a motion to approve this resolution. Do I hear a second? MR. MAHSEET: Second. MR. BURGESS: Second over here. Mr. Mahseet had a second. All those in favor signify by saying "aye." (Aye.) MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same sign. All those abstain, same sign. The ayes have it. MR. NELSON: Mr. Chairman, do you mind if I make this recommendation? As far as time accounting goes, they are budgeted for a certain amount that the people voted for, not to exceed that three-month projection before you start your drawdown. MR. BURGESS: Wait a minute. MR. NELSON: Since they're underneath the tribal care as it is now. MR. BURGESS: Not to exceed three months? Oh, you mean in their request, to request more than one quarter at a time? I think that's what's understood. MR. NELSON: And it remains a work in progress until we get their first drawdown? MR. BURGESS: The quarter ends December 31st. Right? Is that what you're looking for? MR. BIGBEE: So the first quarter ends December 31st? Between now and then we have to get our accountant hired and get it in order. MR. BURGESS: So you'll be ready. Because you guys can always do emergency contracts or whatever, but make sure your documentation or whatever. Just to set you up. Moving on to Item Number 11, Resolution 187-09. MR. TIPPECONNIE: This is an adjustment of the bereavement fund, and it's an adjustment downward. And the reason it's an adjustment downward, the bereavement fund is eating up -- I shouldn't say it that way, but it's causing a lot of expenditure from the Social Service Program. There's no separate line item for bereavement, so it takes away from Social Services. So this is an adjustment to make it so we can make it through the year. MR. HENSON: I make a motion we accept it. MR. BURGESS: Motion made to accept this adjustment to bereavement funds due to constraints, financial nature. And it shall read, CBC directs the Social Service Program to establish bereavement payments to enrolled Comanche family members upon the death of their father, mother, husband, wife, son, daughter, legally adopted children, brother or sister in the following amounts: $100 for those living in Comanche Country, $200 to those living outside of Comanche Country but within the State of Oklahoma; and a cap of $400 to those living outside of Oklahoma. No other expenses will be paid to family members, and family members must be present at the deceased's services to apply for the benefit. Okay. Motion's been made by Mr. Henson. Discussion? MR. TIPPECONNIE: We need a second. MR. BURGESS: Second? MR. NARCOMEY: I second. MR. BURGESS: Mr. Narcomey, a second. Okay. All those in favor signify by saying "aye." (Aye.) MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same sign. All those abstain, same sign. The ayes have it. MS. ISAAC: I have a question that may not be the same as bereavement. When somebody passes away before they get their per cap, how long before you stop their payment to the family, or do you just automatically stop it? MR. BURGESS: Do you recall that? There's a legal statement in that per cap. MR. BURSON: Well, their per cap is supposed to be figured up to the day they die within the year that day, and then they get that much, and then it's not supposed to be anymore after that. But I don't know functionally how that's working. MR. BURGESS: And, remember, we need to have legal notice. Social Services, you bring all this documentation; Certificate of Death to the Social Services, and their job is to report it over to enrollment to take that name off. MS. ISAAC: So it goes to Social Services, Enrollment, and then you cap it off? Like if they died three months ago, and if it's -- if the money's already *disbursed, they -- MR. BURGESS: What I understand is before the check is written, if they pass away before the check is written. We need to know. Because we've had instances where a check was written and someone's passed away two or three months because we didn't get notice from the family even to Social Services. MR. HENSON: If I'm not mistaken, it goes to the estate, right? MR. BURSON: It's supposed to be it becomes property of the estate of the deceased person by law. Whether or not that's the way -- MR. HENSON: I think the way it is, anybody that's eligible for it passes away before it's distributed, then it goes to the estate. MS. ISAAC: It should, but from what I heard from one family, it went to the wife that's not even Comanche. It should go to the estate so they can all -- MR. BURGESS: See, that's a hindrance if it happens right about the time of *disbursement. We don't know exactly when or how. My relative was like that. So the check came in after he was deceased. MS. ISAAC: No, this has been three or four months before we even got our per cap. And then when they become elders, they're going to be getting some more money. I mean, I can't even get my money corrected, and so that's why I'm wondering how come these dead people are getting some money. It's all funny, it really is. MR. BURGESS: We'll put a notice out that these Certificates of Death have to be submitted to us and that's how we're notified. MRS. HENDRIX: I think in the allocation plan it has stated like it does go into their estate. MR. BURGESS: At the time of death. If you make the check prior to the death, and that check is coming, then it goes to their estate. And that's what the family has to recognize. If it's sent in the mail and all of that, we have no control. MR. NARCOMEY: Shouldn't Social Services report to the bank the list of people that passed away, because they're the -- MR. TIPPECONNIE: Enrollment does. MS. ISAAC: The bank won't accept no information. It has to come from our database, which is enrollment, which keeps messing up their paperwork. This is what I keep fussing about. The enrollment is not doing their job. MR. BURGESS: Okay. That completes our resolutions. We have two motions to make. Mr. Orme, are you just visiting with us or is there a statement you wanted to make? MR. ORME: No, I'm just here. MR. BURGESS: Okay. Item Number 12 is a motion. This is timekeeping and payroll procedures. Reading this, I thought we did this last week. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Well, we didn't really pass it. I didn't have it down in the record. Did you have it down, Jim, that we actually passed it? I didn't have it down. MR. BURGESS: We'll move to the next motion, Number 13, our Comanche Indian Church donations. The community has approved $60,000. And based on the number of churches that we've been given, listed here, we have 23. They will divide $60,000, as approved by our budget. And we plan to have a breakfast on the 17th of this month and a check available for all of those church representatives to be there. So those of you who are church members in any one of the churches that receives this fund, the 17th of December we'll have breakfast, prayer breakfast that morning at the gymnasium. MR. NARCOMEY: What time, Mr. Chairman? MR. BURGESS: 8 o'clock. MR. NARCOMEY: I make a motion to approve this motion, Mr. Chairman. MR. TIPPECONNIE: We're handling that, too. That's going out in separate letters to them. They have to have receipts, they have to have all that. MR. BURGESS: Motion's been made by Mr. Narcomey. Call for a second. MR. MAHSEET: I second. MR. BURGESS: All those in favor signify by saying "aye." (Aye.) MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same sign. All those abstain, same sign. Motion passes. MR. NARCOMEY: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to ask Willie a question. Willie, could you check on Beverly Isaac's check that was supposed to be in sometime -- supposed to have been in yesterday? Check and make sure she gets it before Christmas? MR. NELSON: It's usually five day serviceable. On the serviceable, be it bereavement, be it caregivers, be it whatever, servicables are usually five days. Her process started -- MR. NARCOMEY: She should get it Monday or Tuesday? MR. NELSON: Check your answering machine when you get home. MS. ISAAC: I checked it when I got home. MR. NARCOMEY: One more thing for Willie. What about Linda Minthorn's annual leave? Did you find money for that yet? MR. BURGESS: Hang on. That's a personnel issue. We'll deal with that in executive session or with our subcommittee. We need some help, ladies and gentlemen. Several churches here, we don't have a contact name or number for, those of you who might know of them. Now, ladies and gentlemen, Item Number 12 was previously passed and approved. MR. WHITEWOLF: On the old business, I'd like to know how much land we hold, how much was put into trust, and what -- also, what's happened to the casino down here? MR. BURGESS: Okay, hang on, Roderick. I have to add in a Number 5. You say how much land? MR. WHITEWOLF: The land that we own, how much land was put into trust? MR. TIPPECONNIE: They have to be in trust or you can't have a casino. MR. WHITEWOLF: I know that, but that land that they bought at Red River for a long time wasn't in trust. MR. TIPPECONNIE: No, those lands aren't, but we're working on getting them into trust. MR. WHITEWOLF: You just said they were all in trust. MR. TIPPECONNIE: We had to complete environmental. They had all kinds of tires down there that they used for erosion control. We had to remove all those tires. There were just miles of tires. MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: Are you talking about the land that the casino sets on? MR. WHITEWOLF: I'm talking about the casino land and all the land that we bought. MR. TIPPECONNIE: The Red River casino is in trust. MR. WHITEWOLF: The Walters land is in trust? MR. TIPPECONNIE: Walters is in trust. MR. WHITEWOLF: The land down here? MR. TIPPECONNIE: Rowell is in trust. MR. WHITEWOLF: Has that difficulty been solved? MR. TIPPECONNIE: No, no. MR. BURGESS: In fact, he walked in here today, but then he left. They have to come back to us with the appraisal. They haven't shown us the appraisal yet, or start telling us the appraisal is complete. MR. WHITEWOLF: But that's to buy the land, right? MR. BURGESS: Yes. MR. WHITEWOLF: But how about the land that our casino is on? MR. BURGESS: It's not transferred to our name. We don't have title to it yet. MR. WHITEWOLF: Y'all haven't got clear title yet? MR. TIPPECONNIE: No. MR. WHITEWOLF: Is that contingent upon us buying that land? MR. TIPPECONNIE: So far, that's the way it appears. MR. BURGESS: We're just in negotiations with him, so we don't know what's on the table with him yet. We haven't heard from him yet. Item Number 2, Jarvis Poahway. This is in our old business. Jarvis, did you have something to present? MR. POAHWAY: Yes. Yeah, I do. As y'all know, I come up and presented two pieces of paper to the council, General Council, I mean to you guys, the CBC. And in one paper it was for $15,000, but then I talked to the tribal chairman, I mean the Tribal -- MR. BURGESS: TA. MR. POAHWAY: -- Administrator. And I have this paper here that I'm going to give each of you a copy of. And it's not a prepared legal document, but I want you to just -- just for informative purposes. At this time, that's all I'm presenting it as. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Information? MR. POAHWAY: Just as an informative piece of paper. And the reason I'm doing it this way is because the Tribal Administrator has called me a thief. He had Otis go up and recheck the equipment and all this stuff like that, and Otis is the one that told me that he called me a thief. I presented this equipment before. Everything I done, I went above the table. I presented it to the CBC, I went to Louis. And I'm going to read this affidavit to you. "In the matter of P. K. Surveying Inventory Sale and Proposed Sale, the attached item was submitted to the Comanche Business Committee in the amount of $15,000." Dated 10-15- 08. The date should read 10-15-09. "On a previous day, I, Louis McCarthy, talked with the Tribal Administrator at the back door by the TA's office while the TA smoked a cigarette. I suggested to Mr. Nelson I wanted to sell my surveying equipment to the Capital Improvement Program for $4700. And Louis and I came and talked to him about it. Mr. Nelson suggested that the price was not an adequate price, that I should submit a much higher price for the equipment. He said, 'The Comanches got lots of money.' He said, 'Submit it for a higher price.' "So I went home and I thought about it, and I brought back a price for $15,000. He said that was too high. When I brought back the next proposal to Louis and we took it over to talk to the -- after I resubmitted it, he said $12,000 would be a more adequate price, there wouldn't be no problem getting the money. I explained this to Louis and he told me to go ahead and make out the invoice for $12,000 and bring the equipment to his office. Louis told me he was going to Las Vegas at the time, and as soon as he returned he would cut me a check for the equipment. I received a check for the equipment. "During the October CBC meeting, the equipment sale was brought up, and the Chairman suggested I get with the Tribal Administrator who is in charge of procurement for the tribe. Mr. Nelson stood before the CBC and everybody that was here and said it was up to the CBC to make the decision for the sale, because Louis worked for the CBC and not the Tribal Administrator. The Tribal Administrator further stated Louis had his own money and it was up to him to purchase the equipment and not the TA. "At the November CBC meeting, the Tribal Administrator sent a cell phone text message to Louis inquiring who gave him authorization to purchase the equipment." I read that -- right there at the door, I read the text message on his telephone. "November 9th, 2009, I went to Civa's office to schedule a meeting with CBC member Darrell Kosechequetah. While in her office, I overheard the TA, Mr. Nelson, telling Louis" -- they were in his office and I was in Civa's office. I heard Mr. Nelson telling Louie not to have any further dealings with me or my services." "'I'm supposed to have a meeting with this committee on Parks and Recreation Tuesday,' this is what Louis stated. Mr. Nelson yelled at Louis and said that there was not a committee and not to have anything to do with me. "With the sale of the equipment to the Capital Improvement Program, Louis and I signed a contract for 100 hours of consultation for the purpose of instructing the employees on the fundamentals of surveying and how to use the equipment. With Mr. Nelson's standing order to Capital Improvement not to have anything to do with my services, our contract was breached and thus void, costing the tribe a loss of consulting fees at $100 an hour," which is professional consulting fees, and I think it adds up to $7000 total. But I'm tired of the TA calling me a thief, going behind my back, trying to cut of this committee that we started for the property, the Jack Dodd property out there. We were trying to form it into a parks and recreation. And there seems to be a lot of discouragement in there now, because -- I don't even know if Mr. -- what Mr. Darrell Kosechequetah's thoughts are on this. But do we still have a committee? That's the number one question. The other question is, this breach of the contract. He ordered them not to have anything to do with me. He hired another surveyor, which is Otis. MR. BURGESS: Part of your contract was to do the survey for us, or just buy the equipment from you and then 100 hours of training? MR. POAHWAY: I signed a contract with Louis for the sale of the equipment, and I offered 100 hours of training his employees. Well, he no longer has the equipment. It was taken over to Mr. Tippeconnie's office, and -- MR. TIPPECONNIE: Well, it's just stored there. MR. POAHWAY: Yeah. Well, I know it was taken there by Otis. Otis went and got it and brought it over to the office. MR. TIPPECONNIE: We didn't want to lose it. MR. POAHWAY: Yeah, and -- Well, you wouldn't have lost it over there. I mean, he's the one that, you know, that I was supposed to give the hours of -- But if you're going to -- I need a decision from you guys here about the 100 hours. Are we going to honor the 100 hours? Do I still have a committee going on the Jack Dodd property? You know, with all this stuff going on now, I don't know. MR. BURGESS: On the Jack Dodd property, we established, the CBC established that committee. Mr. Darrell Kosechequetah volunteered and we asked that Mr. McCarthy be a part of that, so that committee is there. Okay. That's been established. And then y'all called one meeting and then we told -- someone was told that that's not kosher. MR. POAHWAY: Well, they told me that the meeting was called. I think he said Mr. Darrell Kosechequetah. But then he said Willie wanted to talk to Mr. Kosechequetah before we had that meeting. MR. BURGESS: Okay. The committee still stands. We said that we want to have some kind of development going on, whatever that is, that's culturally related, that the committee's going to help decide that, what those activities are. MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: I had a little input. At this point, I was -- when they scheduled the meeting, they didn't tell me when they were scheduling that meeting. I was out of town that week. MR. BURGESS: We know that. But someone else is saying there's no committee. MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: When I got back, all this has taken place. MR. BURGESS: Mr. Kosechequetah and Mr. McCarthy are going to be part of that committee, and leadership if need be, but that committee stands. Now, these other accusations, I'd prefer we go into executive session, because we need a clear definition, some legal points here. MR. POAHWAY: On the breach of contract. MR. BURGESS: On that, and/or -- MR. BURSON: Be happy to in executive session. MR. BURGESS: Yes, executive session. MR. POAHWAY: So when will that be done? MR. BURGESS: We've completed everything but the other old business on here, Jarvis. The 22nd would be our executive session. We can move this one to that. We are going to do just two items in executive session today, or three, and that's it. That will be December 22nd, we'll reconvene at 9 o'clock at the business center. Michael Bradle or Bradle? He's on our agenda. Michael Bradle? MR. NARCOMEY: No show. MR. BURGESS: All right. Well, we're going to move onto our Shoshone Reunion Update. MR. TAHHAHWAH: That would be me. I didn't have a written report to give to y'all because we turned it in last month at last month's meeting. And we wanted to give this oral report last month, but we didn't get on the agenda. So I requested that we be on the agenda today, and Tippeconnie had us put on the agenda. I thank you for that. And I just want to thank you in the name of the committee. We have Rosemary here with us, and Vivian's gone out of town. Vivian Holder is another member of the committee. I'd like to thank y'all for appointing us. For some of you that are new to the board, to the CBC, last year, in September, I believe, we were appointed to a committee for carrying out the Shoshone Reunion that we had last September. And there was several that was appointed that didn't show any interest in taking part in the committee. And those that came to the meetings and carried out work to carry out the reunion, well, we just carried on with whoever showed up, whoever showed the interest. And that's how we became and worked as a committee to carry out this event we had in September. And we had a very successful reunion. And this is what I wanted to report on, and some of the things that have transpired since the reunion has been over, with our finances and things like that. But at the reunion, we held it a couple of days or a day before the Comanche Fair actually started, and that worked out good for some of the Shoshone people that came who wanted to stay over and take part in the Comanche Fair. And some of those people went to peyote meetings and things like that. The intent of this Shoshone Reunion in the beginning was that we -- all of the tribes can come together and share our different ideals, our different cultural activities and things that we do from the past up to now, and just sharing those things and sharing the language. And we continued with that initial ideal with some of the workshops that we had. And some of the similar words that we use as Comanches, the Shoshones use. And some things have changed, some things are still the same. And those types of things is what was kind of brought out in some of the workshops that we did. Some of the workshops related specifically to some of the things that Shoshones do there. Like some of their traditional ball games and things that was played by some of the participants down at the arena. And some of the bowl making skills was presented by some of our own tribal members, Mr. Willie Pekah. And then there was a bowl shooting contest. A lot of the men were -- had taken part in it, And the tepee making, it's been always the Fort Washakie group that always carried the title of, you know, the best constructed teepee. And this year, the Tosigh family won that title, and so it's like a traveling trophy that goes around. I think that is being carried on by the tribe right now. But on of the things that was real special, that I thought, happened the first day of the reunion when all of the representatives from different tribes got up there to welcome the participants in the reunion, the Fort Washakie folks presented our tribe with, what would you call it, a peace pipe or red stone pipe. It was wrapped in red cloth, had an eagle feather on it. That's a real important, I'd say, sacred item that was given to the tribe. And I think that's the kind of things that this Shoshone reunion was initially set up to do, for us to share our various cultural items like that and to be more involved in those types of things. And for those types of things, the overall event went well. It was a success. There was 1000 registered in our registration. But there was a lot more there, with the kids and people that didn't register that came out and participated in the discussion and stuff. The Shoshone Bannoks, when they did their presentation in the arena, I think it was Wednesday afternoon, there was an elder lady that got up there and spoke Shoshone to the crowd. I was sitting by my sister and she said, "Gah, that lady sounds like she's speaking Comanche." And I said, "Well, you know, that's where our languages came from. We're all -- basically spoke the same language." And so, you know, there was remarks like that from the other tribes that, you know, they enjoyed the reunion and they thought it was -- they -- the presentations were good and everything. And there was some criticisms on some of our tribal members' part because of -- maybe some of our volunteers, which we had over 200 volunteers come out and sign up and help serve the meals, help cook, and help set up. There were several programs here at the tribe that went over and beyond what we asked for, you know, for their assistance. The IT department, Procurement department, and I forget some of the -- there's two -- about two other departments that slip my mind right now who they -- but they came out and helped. Oh, yeah, Food Distribution up there and Elders Center. And we wanted to, you know, make sure that they got recognized. We held a dinner last month -- well, it was in October -- to kind of recognize our volunteers and show them how we appreciated them. That's really all we could do, was offer a meal, and we did that. And it was over 75 or close to 100 people that came and ate with us at that meal. But, you know, we just have this hosted by our tribe once every maybe three, maybe five years, and, you know, we tried to do the best we could here. And the way it happened at the end of the fiscal year, our budget was cut to 30,000 where it was budgeted for 50,000, and so that kind of hampered some of our efforts and some of the things we wanted to do but couldn't do. And so, you know, that was kind of a negative thing that happened with this reunion, just because of where it fell in our fiscal year funding. And we felt like the attendance was down from the other tribes because we held it during the school year rather than in the summer when their kids were out and they were more able to -- more of their people come down and take part. So the attendance by some of the other tribes was down. I don't think any of the Ute tribes were represented here. They were mostly the Shoshones and Eastern Shoshone Bannocks. And this is an important event, I feel, that it's not only important to us, but it's almost as if we're being copied by some of the other tribes. I believe the Northern Arapaho had a language conference sometime right after our Shoshone Reunion was held up there. And I heard that the Kiowas was trying to have some sort of a language conference, and there was a bunch of Kiowas here at our reunion. I guess maybe they were taking notes about what we were doing to try to have a reunion with the Crows or something. I'm not for sure. But I heard that they were trying to also have a type of reunion. But I just felt like those types of things that, you know, they're important, and we need to keep them going. And if any of you can come to the next one, you know, we would want to -- want you to come and be there. And that was another thing that we as a committee want to know from you guys, if we're going to remain the committee that works on, you know, taking the group up to where this next reunion's going to be, or if there's going to be another appointment of committee where, you know, where we won't be a part of that. You know, for me, I want to participate whether I'm on the committee or not, and I think some of our committee members feel the same way. But, you know, if that's what y'all choose to do, reappoint us or us as the committee, I think our committee that's on there now would be willing to take up that endeavor to work on the -- with the next hosting tribe to take a group up there. And so that's kind of what we're wanting to know from you guys, if we're going to remain the committee or not. MR. BURGESS: We'll come to that later, we'll make a decision. Because we're four years away, possibly four years out before we come into -- MR. TAHHAHWAH: No, I'm talking about this next reunion, which will be at Fort Deshain, or somewhere with the -- MR. BURGESS: Well, what I last heard was the three tribes in Utah, they're talking about an alternative site, something more accessible. They are discussing Salt Like City, somewhere else. And what I last heard was that they're questioning if they can do it. So they may be going to the next site, which was supposed to be Reno again. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: In the event that Fort Deshain could not host, then Elko was going to step in, so it would be at Elko. MR. BURGESS: So probably have what, 60 days to be telling us something. I heard they're going to have a meeting sometime, but I don't know when. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: That was one of the reasons why, too, that we had that question of whether we were going to remain on the committee or if you were going to reappoint another committee, was because the executive staff, or the executive committee holds at least four meetings, and those are usually in Reno. So we need to know, for the three of us that were appointed by you guys, we need to know are we going to continue, do we continue with the planning of the next meeting that's coming up, are we going to -- who will attend the meetings, what is our budget. I understand it was voted on at 70,000. Those are questions that we had, and that was what we would like answers to. MR. BURGESS: Well, currently there's no plan to change the budget. But I think that the last time that we had a committee, when I was on it the previous two times, we just put the committees together when we hosted, okay, to pare things down, and then when we knew we were hosting, that's when we brought the committees forward and started moving for everything for the event. If we're four years out, which is what I understand, wherever they go to, the Utes in Utah, if they decide to pick it back up, that's what I heard they wanted to do. Now this is in the discussion with Soyos a couple of weeks back when I last saw him. So they were going over and keeping in contact with these guys, more so than I know of, so I don't know that we need to keep the committee alive for everything if we're not going to be hosting for another three to four years. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Well, that's what we needed to know. MR. BURGESS: But the money that's voted in, now that's going to be pushed to an account. We're going to push that to the side and take it out of general funds so it's not utilized. Because that's been the history, that we never -- you voted it in and technically appropriated it, but it's never been sequestered where it's not used until the time comes to use it. MRS. WHITEWOLF: Excuse me. Do you pay their way down or help them out with money, or do they do that for you, or do y'all just extend an invitation? MR. TAHHAHWAH: Whenever we go to another tribe, take part in the reunion, well, they don't fund any of our expenses over there. But the tribe allocates so much amount of funds which we utilize to take our people out there and furnish rooms and, you know, a ride out there and back, or furnish gas to get out there and back. But the other tribes, they don't pay for us to get over there, or we don't pay for them to come to us. If they come over here when we host it, we don't pay for their expenses over here. We try to get them back and forth to the hotels and stuff, but that's about all the help that we provide when they get here. They provide their ride here and back home and pay for their rooms, and we just try to, you know, bus them back and forth to their hotels and back out here, or take them to our casinos or wherever and then take them back. MRS. WHITEWOLF: And then take their money? MR. TAHHAHWAH: That's what we're asking, is are we going to remain a committee to work on next year's event, you know, to organize that traveling out there and back, or, you know, are we just going to leave it to the community members to get together? MR. BURGESS: Let's leave it on hold. I mean, by hold -- because I was told they were going to have a meeting and then it was cancelled, and another meeting and they're changing their minds. Until we know what it is, their executive committee over there, their local groups are going to come up with. Because we're hearing some politics are going on over there, so that's why the Elko thing came up. Already this is what? Got five months to go. We have no hard date, no hard information. So just put you on standby, hold on a while until we see what they're going to do. Because if they're holding meetings at the last minute, we can't be doing that either. But there's nothing wrong with y'all having a plan of involvement, and, you know, activities, what it is we want to do, not knowing what they're going to ask of us, as well. MS. ISAAC: When this first came about, it's just the people that were interested that went to the meetings. And at that meeting, the most people -- they voted on their committee at that meeting. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Voted on the officers, yes. MS. ISAAC: They weren't appointed. But last year Wallace took it upon himself to appoint the committee, which is fine. But I would like to see the committee, whichever y'all do, have fundraisers. I mean, that was -- I was all for that. I think we had two fundraisers last time, and then it got to be too much work for some people. But I like to see fundraisers. We need to prove to our own Comanche people that we can help ourselves. Just sitting waiting for some money is not good. We need to, you know -- MR. BURGESS: Well, I remember, that's what we did the first couple of times, and we wrote grants and all that. That's why I was saying we start a 501(c)(3) for this reunion effort, for our fair, and for other -- the charitable contributions, it takes that weight off of this body, and they do the fundraising and matching and we give them the seed money to go forward. The 501(c)(3) can do that all year round. But is that it, Ed? MR. TAHHAHWAH: Yeah. MR. BURGESS: Thank you. We're going to go into executive session. MR. WHITEWOLF: Did y'all know that optometry and diabetes, they don't file on Medicare? MR. BURGESS: You mean third-party reimbursement? That was something that we're looking at getting started. We're going to have our first meeting, I belive -- I forget what date it was, to start reviewing all that and how we're going to incorporate third party charging or third-party billing. MRS. WHITEWOLF: Because when I go down to the Indian Hospital, you have to sign quarterly, you know, forms for them to be reimbursed by Medicare. And they don't mess around. And when I came in Tuesday, I stopped up there to go by to get my -- for my glasses. And I asked this lady, "Do you need a copy of my Medicare card?" And she said, "What?" "So you can file on it." I said, "You file on it, don't you?" And she said, "Well, no, they started that, but we got a new director and they just" -- they don't know. And I went home -- this is what I was to do. I went home and I was going to get on the computer and learn all I could about Medicare. Because when I did work at the Indian Hospital in registration at one point, I had to collect a copy of that Medicare card for every Medicare patient. I mean, that was a must. So over here, they're missing out money. MR. BURGESS: That's what we have been approached about, and looking at some training, some consultation to get our people trained up to do all of that, particularly in optometry and prescription assistance, so that we can start claiming and billing for third-party reimbursements on all of that. MRS. WHITEWOLF: She said yesterday or the day before, when I stopped over there, Vickie did say something that they're going to probably start that learning. MR. BURGESS: Yeah, we're going to -- we're looking at that, and we want to get somebody coming in after January here to help us start doing that. We're going to recess at this time. We're going to move over to the old conference room for the two items on our executive session only. After that, everything else will be -- we've already notified the two parties on executive session, three parties. So ladies and gentlemen, we're concluding now, and then on the 22nd we'll reconvene at the business center at 1915 East Gore Boulevard. (Open session concluded at 1:55 p.m.) * * * * * * R E P O R T E R 'S C E R T I F I C A T E STATE OF OKLAHOMA ) ) COUNTY OF OKLAHOMA ) I, Kelly Stoabs, Certified Shorthand Reporter for the State of Oklahoma, certify that the above and foregoing meeting transcribed by me is a true and correct transcript of the meeting; that the meeting was held on December 5, 2009, in the State of Oklahoma; that I am not an attorney for nor a relative of any said parties, or otherwise interested in the event of said action. IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set hereunto set my hand and seal of office on this the 5th day of January, 2010. __________________________ Kelly Stoabs Certified Shorthand Reporter for the State of Oklahoma S E C R E T A R Y ' S C E R T I F I C A T E I, Robert Tippeconnie, Secretary- Treasurer of Comanche Nation Business Committee, certify that the above is a true and correct transcript of a meeting of CBC Members held at 10:08 a.m. on December 5, 2009, and that the meeting was duly called and held in all respects in accordance with the charters and bylaws of the Comanche Nation and that a quorum was present. I further certify that the votes and resolutions of the CBC Members of Comanche Nation at the meeting are operative and in full force and effect and have not been annulled or modified by any vote or resolution passed or adopted by the CBC since that meeting. Signed:_________________________ Date:____________ Robert Tippeconnie Secretary-Treasurer 81