0001 1 2 3 4 5 6 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS OF THE 7 COMANCHE BUSINESS COMMITTEE 8 MONTHLY MEETING 9 AUGUST 7, 2010, 10:18 A.M. 10 COMANCHE NATION COMPLEX 11 LAWTON, OKLAHOMA 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 __________________________________________________ REPORTED BY: KELLY STOABS, CSR 23 DODSON REPORTING & ASSOCIATES 435 NORTH WALKER, SUITE 102 24 OKLAHOMA CITY, OKLAHOMA 73102 (405) 235-1828 ~ (405) 235-1266 (FAX) 25 dcri@coxinet.net 0002 1 A P P E A R A N C E S 2 3 COMANCHE NATION BUSINESS COMMITTEE MEMBERS: 4 Michael Burgess, Chairman Robert Tippeconnie, Secretary-Treasurer 5 Ronald Red Elk, Committeeman #1 Mark Wauahdooah, Committeeman #2 6 Clyde R. Narcomey, Committeeman #4 7 LEGAL COUNSEL: 8 William Norman, James Burson Hobbs, Straus, Dean & Walker 9 10 11 * * * * * * 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0003 1 INDEX OF PROCEEDINGS 2 PAGE 3 Meeting called to order at 5 10:18 a.m. 4 Roll call. 5 5 Invocation. 5 6 Motion passed to approve minutes of 5 7 July 2010, with the reconvened portion being added in the future. 8 Motion passed to amend agenda, 9 9 adding law enforcement to new and old business, revolving loan to 10 executive session, and deleting Number 16. 11 Motion passed to approve Resolution 13 12 #83/Enrollment List No. 837. 13 Motion passed to approve Resolution 13 #84/Enrollment List No. 838. 14 Motion passed to approve Resolution 14 15 #85/Enrollment List No. 839. 16 Motion passed to approve Resolution 15 #86-10/TIP. 17 Motion passed to approve Resolution 21 18 #87-10/WIA. 19 Motion passed to approve Resolution 23 #88-10/BIA Form 4432. 20 Motion passed to approve Resolution 26 21 # 89-10/USDI Fish & Wildlife Service. 22 Motion passed to approve Resolution 33 23 #90-10/U.S. Department of Health & Human Services Administration on 24 Aging. 25 0004 1 INDEX OF PROCEEDINGS (continued) 2 PAGE 3 Motion did not pass on Resolution 35 #91-10/Establish date and time of 4 special election. 5 Motion passed to approve Resolution 97 #92-10/Approving form document for 6 RAP. 7 Motion passed to approve Resolution 99 #93-10/TSC Warehouse. 8 Oklahoma Water Resources Board 115 9 litigation. 10 Motion passed to reappoint Billie 128 Kreger and Clorandia Tsatoke to 11 Comanche Nation Housing Authority Board of Commissioners. 12 Discussion of Law Enforcement 134 13 funding. 14 Comanche Nation Fair water being 149 sold in Cyril. 15 Wall exhibit. 151 16 Executive session commenced at 155 17 1:47 p.m. 18 Reporter's Certificate. 156 19 Secretary/Treasurer's Certificate. 157 20 21 22 * * * * * * 23 24 25 0005 1 (Meeting called to order at 2 10:18 a.m.) 3 MR. BURGESS: We'll come to order 4 here, Mr. Secretary. Mr. Tippeconnie, if you'll 5 kindly do roll call for us, please. 6 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Michael Burgess? 7 MR. BURGESS: Here. 8 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Richard Henson? 9 Robert Tippeconnie? Here. Ronald RedElk 10 MR. REDELK: Here. 11 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Mark Wauahdooah? 12 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Here. 13 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Darrell 14 Kosechequetah? Clyde Narcomey? 15 MR. NARCOMEY: Here. 16 MR. BURGESS: Mark, why don't you 17 give us the invocation? 18 MR. WAHADOOAH: (Invocation.) 19 MR. BURGESS: Thank you. Fellas, do 20 y'all want to take a few more minutes to review 21 last month's minutes, or do you want to go right 22 into the meeting? 23 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Mr. Chairman, I ask 24 Mr. Secretary/Treasurer that the minutes of the 25 reconvened meetings be added to these minutes at 0006 1 some point and be distributed to the public at 2 some point. 3 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Okay. 4 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: I might add that we 5 might try to, in the future, try not to have 6 reconvened meetings as much as possible. We might 7 be stretching the constitution a little bit here. 8 So that's it. 9 MR. BURGESS: I don't want to go into 10 a discussion on that, but if we could keep our 11 meetings short, that would help. But our public 12 wants to be heard. So since 2002, that I can 13 recall, I've seen meetings have 50 people in here 14 from the first time I attended my three or four 15 first meetings when we had four people. After 16 they made their statement, they got up and left. 17 So I'm old enough to have seen a difference in how 18 this government has been more open than it ever 19 was when I first came on in 2001. We have a 20 resolution going here, coming up. 21 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Minutes, minutes. 22 MR. BURGESS: Is anybody going to 23 make the motion or are we going to continue the 24 review? 25 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: I make the motion 0007 1 that we accept the minutes with the addition of 2 the reconvened meeting minutes. 3 MR. BURGESS: With the addition? We 4 don't have -- 5 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Subsequently. 6 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Subsequently. 7 MR. BURGESS: All right. Ladies and 8 gentlemen, many of the items that are discussed in 9 reconvened meetings are either executive session 10 or charitable contributions. So that's why we try 11 to come to the resolutions and new and old 12 business first, then if we have to reconvene to 13 the executive session, that's because that's at 14 the request of those individuals or it's going to 15 involve personnel issues or financial matters that 16 are -- should be kept confidential until we can 17 tell you what it's going to be. That's why 18 they're reconvened. We try to come through all 19 the resolutions. 20 I've sat here a few times and the CBC 21 wanted to keep on going so we could finish the 22 agenda. That's the nights we've been here past 23 five o'clock. One night we were here until 7:45 24 after arriving at 9:00 a.m. or something like 25 that. For those of you who don't think we put in 0008 1 long hours, we do. 2 Minutes: I have a motion to approve 3 or do you still want to review? 4 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Chairman, when 5 do we get to ask questions that pertain to old an 6 new business if it's not on the agenda? 7 MR. BURGESS: Generally, you would 8 not, but I've been pretty lenient. 9 I'm looking at these minutes here and 10 I see a lot of unidentified speakers. So hence- 11 forth, we're going to ask you to identify yourself 12 and try to stick to the topic at hand, you know, 13 so we can move along. Did you notice that, Mark? 14 Quite a few unidentified speakers here, and it 15 helps us to know who's asking the question and 16 why. 17 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: I'd like to say 18 since we have some dead time here, it's incredible 19 what the stenographer has been able to put into 20 the minutes that we had on July 7th. It's 21 incredible. I thought she would have missed most 22 of the dialogue, but she put about 95 percent of 23 it in. 24 MR. NARCOMEY: I make a motion to 25 approve, Mr. Chairman, the minutes. 0009 1 MR. BURGESS: We have a motion to 2 approve minutes from July 10th, 2010. 3 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: I second the motion. 4 MR. BURGESS: All right. Second by 5 Mr. Wauahdooah. All those in favor signify by 6 saying "aye." 7 (Aye.) 8 MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same 9 sign. All those abstain, same sign. The ayes 10 have it. 11 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Mr. Chairman, I'd 12 like to amend the agenda. We need to add in 13 executive session revolving loan. And we need to 14 delete Number 16. 15 MR. BURGESS: All right. 16 MR. TIPPECONNIE: The person asked 17 that we delete it. 18 MR. BURGESS: Okay. Motion made to 19 amend the agenda adding those items to executive 20 session. Is there a second? 21 MR. NARCOMEY: Second. 22 MR. BURGESS: Second by Mr. Clyde 23 Narcomey. 24 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: I have a question, 25 Mr. Chairman. 0010 1 MR. BURGESS: Go ahead. 2 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Mr. Tippeconnie, why 3 did we put this revolving loan into executive 4 session? 5 MR. TIPPECONNIE: They requested that 6 we have it there. 7 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Who are "they"? 8 MR. TIPPECONNIE: The revolving loan 9 group. 10 MR. BURGESS: The chairman of the 11 revolving loan. 12 MR. TIPPECONNIE: The chairman of the 13 revolving loan, Mr. Orme. 14 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Is it a personnel 15 matter? 16 MR. TIPPECONNIE: I don't know what 17 it is. Financial matter. 18 MR. BURGESS: All right. Motion 19 made. Second? 20 MR. REDELK: I'd like to add 21 something on new and old business. 22 MR. BURGESS: Oh yeah, Comanche 23 Housing Authority. Go ahead, Ron. 24 MR. REDELK: We need to continue the 25 discussion on law enforcement. 0011 1 MR. BURGESS: If that discussion gets 2 over-lengthy and we don't come to a conclusion -- 3 because I believe, Mr. RedElk, we're not going to 4 discuss it very long. I'll let you put it on 5 here, but there's some pending -- there's some 6 other pending items that are checked in our 7 executive session so we'll move along. 8 MR. REDELK: It won't take me long. 9 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Do you want me to 10 amend my motion to include these two? I just have 11 one motion. Would that be okay? 12 MR. NARCOMEY: Yes. 13 MR. TIPPECONNIE: We make the 14 amendment to include revolving loan in executive 15 session, delete Number 16 in executive session, we 16 add Number 5 as law enforcement -- 17 MR. BURGESS: No, Number 5 is 18 Comanche Housing Authority. 19 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Okay. Number 5 is 20 housing reappointment, Comanche Nation Housing 21 reappointment. Number 6 is law enforcement 22 continued. That's the most -- 23 MR. BURGESS: Second? 24 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: I've got a question 25 for you, Mr. Tippeconnie. You said Number 5. Are 0012 1 you saying Elders' Center Advisory Board is 2 deleted on executive session? 3 MR. TIPPECONNIE: No, Number 16. 4 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: You said Number 5 5 earlier. 6 MR. TIPPECONNIE: No, I said Number 7 16. 8 MR. BURGESS: Number 16 in executive 9 session deleted; adding a new 19 will be the 10 revolving loan fund; move back up to new and old 11 business; Number 5 is Comanche Nation Housing 12 Authority reappointments; Number 6, Mr. RedElk 13 wants to continue discussion on law enforcement. 14 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Very good. 15 MR. TIPPECONNIE: You have a motion 16 and a second. 17 MR. NARCOMEY: Wait, wait, 18 Mr. Chairman. I thought we was going to -- this 19 month, we was going to do the elders' council. 20 You said it's on there? 21 MR. BURGESS: Yes, Number 5 in 22 executive session. 23 MR. NARCOMEY: Have you got the 24 changes down? 25 MR. BURGESS: Anymore discussion? 0013 1 All right. Call for the question. All those in 2 favor signify by saying "aye." 3 (Aye.) 4 MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same 5 sign. All those abstain, same sign. Agenda 6 amended. 7 Now, Resolution Number 83, which is 8 Enrollment List Number 837. It speaks to the 9 enrollment of an individual applying for 10 membership, but they're currently enrolled in 11 another tribe. This one is under -- both are 12 under the age of 18 and can reapply at that time. 13 MR. NARCOMEY: I make the motion to 14 approve, Mr. Chairman. 15 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: I second that 16 motion. 17 MR. BURGESS: Second by Mark 18 Wauahdooah. All those in favor signify by saying 19 "aye." 20 (Aye.) 21 MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same 22 sign. All those abstain, same sign. The ayes 23 have it. 24 Resolution Number 84-10, this is 25 Enrollment List Number 838. Three individuals 0014 1 have applied for membership, but they are 2 ineligible because they do not meet the 3 requirements of membership. Motion to approve? 4 MR. NARCOMEY: I make the motion, 5 Mr. Chairman. 6 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: I second that 7 motion. 8 MR. BURGESS: All those in favor 9 signify by saying "aye." 10 (Aye.) 11 MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same 12 sign. All those abstain, same sign. The ayes 13 have it. 14 Next resolution is Number 85-10, 15 Enrollment List Number 839. This is a resolution 16 to accept those applicants attached hereto. They 17 meet all requirements to become a member of the 18 nation, therefore, we need a motion to accept. 19 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: I make a motion to 20 accept the new members. 21 MR. REDELK: I second. 22 MR. BURGESS: Second by Ron RedElk. 23 All those in favor signify by saying "aye." 24 (Aye.) 25 MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same 0015 1 sign. All those abstain, same sign. I think we 2 have 14,864 and this list of 18. 3 MS. WAHNEE: 14,891. 4 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Total now? 5 MS. WAHNEE: Not including. 6 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Previous, previous. 7 MR. BURGESS: Eighteen here plus -- 8 14,899. Is that what you're saying? 14,899. 9 Resolution 86-10 deals with our 10 transportation department, the roads. It's going 11 to add eight routes to the 2010 Transportation 12 Improvement Plan. Two of these are in Comanche 13 County, four are in Cotton County, and two more in 14 Comanche County. I don't know the route numbers, 15 but have they got names? Will, do we know where 16 these roads are at? 17 MR. OWENS: Yes, sir. 18 MR. BURGESS: Do you have a name on 19 them or are they just county roads? 20 MR. OWENS: Well, they're rural, 21 especially in Cotton County. There are no names 22 on them. The Route 7174 is the actual Highway 36 23 located near our casino, Red River Casino. 7150 24 is the L off the 7175 that we're already doing. 25 The old substation, police substation, I guess. 0016 1 MR. BURGESS: Oh, okay. 2 MR. OWENS: That is the north/south. 3 MR. BURGESS: The old smoke shop down 4 there? 5 MR. OWENS: Yes. 6763 is off of Post 6 Oak -- in between Post Oak and Bigbow Road, it's 7 Lee. All that we're doing there is replacing a 8 low-water crossing, or going to build a new bridge 9 over that waterway. 10 MR. BURGESS: Okay. That will help 11 us. These funds will come down when? 12 MR. OWENS: The funds are there. 13 What this is doing is applying so we can put a 14 design and we can actually apply the money to 15 these particular projects. There is another 16 list. I apologize, there should be the original 17 TIP with this, but it's not with it. That 18 consisted of, I believe, about 15 routes. 19 MR. BURGESS: All right. 20 MR. OWENS: So we're basically adding 21 more, so it makes 23. What you do with TIP is it 22 allows you to do design, possible construction, 23 allocate some money to that. 24 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Mr. Owens, is this a 25 high-volume ridership or just once a day? 0017 1 MR. OWENS: We do traffic counts. We 2 haven't had one, a traffic count, in a while. 3 Ours got vandalized. They're rather expensive. 4 So we go by the county or the state traffic or we 5 take the default, which is 50 a day. In this 6 particular low-water crossing located on Lee, the 7 Tahah family lives out there and Ray Niedo's old 8 place. It's not used quite a bit, but when it 9 rains, the drainage is horrible and there's a lot 10 of washout in that area. They have to go 11 around -- 12 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Is this going to be 13 five days a week or is this a special appointment? 14 MR. BURGESS: What he means is usage. 15 It's not just one time. These are county roads 16 that we can claim -- 17 MR. OWENS: We don't own them. 18 MR. BURGESS: We don't own them, but 19 we can claim them or repair and renew them. 20 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: This is not a 21 regular bus route then? 22 MR. OWENS: Yes, it is. 23 MR. WAHADOOAH: With or without a 24 ridership, you'll go though there how many times a 25 day? 0018 1 MR. BURGESS: No, it's not like 2 that. It's on call. 3 MR. OWENS: The count is so rural 4 that you'd rather go by the default of 50 a day. 5 MR. BURGESS: I think he asked if we 6 have a regular route that everyday we're going 7 through this at a set time. Is that what you're 8 asking? 9 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Yeah. 10 MR. BURGESS: Okay. You might 11 explain to him that we do have a route, but it's 12 based on ridership, which he said is 50 a day. 13 And at the same time, our funding is saying we 14 have to have X number, so that's why we keep the 15 roads up for our buses. 16 MR. REDELK: Will? 17 MR. OWENS: Yes, sir. 18 MR. REDELK: I think you have a 19 mistake on 7016. 20 MR. OWENS: Yes. 21 MR. REDELK: My recollection of the 22 township -- 23 MR. OWENS: It should be Comanche 24 County, I'm sorry. They put the wrong -- that's 25 wrong. It should be Comanche County. 0019 1 MR. BURGESS: Cyril Road in Comanche 2 County. 3 MR. REDELK: I'm familiar with Cotton 4 County and I know our township starts one at the 5 top and four at the bottom. 6 MR. OWENS: I missed that, I 7 apologize. It should be labeled Comanche County. 8 MR. REDELK: Comanche County. 9 MR. OWENS: Yes. That road is kind 10 of like a back road from Sterling to Highway 7, 11 heavily used. 12 MR. TIPPECONNIE: When we pass this 13 now and sign it, does it go to the Bureau? 14 MR. OWENS: It goes to the Bureau, 15 yes. 16 MR. TIPPECONNIE: So we'll need to 17 correct that? 18 MR. OWENS: Yes, I'll make sure of 19 that. 20 MR. BURGESS: Pass it with 21 corrections? 22 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: I make a motion we 23 accept this transportation routing. 24 MR. WHITEWOLF: When you say you have 25 a route, does that mean a certain amount of people 0020 1 use it every day? I mean riders, I mean? 2 MR. OWENS: Yes, we assess it with 3 the need of our people. 4 But basically, you know, we don't own 5 the roads. We have to ask the county for 6 permission to improve these roads. And once we do 7 that, then they maintain them. And part of the 8 formula is ridership, bus route, mail routes and 9 everything else. Basically how we label it is 10 mostly bus routes or mail routes. We have to look 11 at the inhabitants on it and just look at the 12 overall -- what kind of condition it's in. 13 Basically the county comes to us and they identify 14 and we work together with them. 15 MR. BURGESS: Mark, you were going to 16 make a motion? 17 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: I'll make the 18 motion. 19 MR. TIPPECONNIE: With the 20 correction. 21 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: With Cotton -- 22 Comanche County, I guess. 23 MR. BURGESS: Okay. Second? 24 MR. TIPPECONNIE: I'll second. 25 MR. BURGESS: Robert Tippeconnie 0021 1 seconds. 2 All those in favor signify by saying 3 "aye." 4 (Aye.) 5 MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same 6 sign. All those abstain, same sign. 7 We have another resolution before us, 8 Number 87-10. This is involving our Workforce 9 Improvement Act, the WIA program. They're asking 10 us to approve a set list of expenses they can 11 give. It's called supportive services for people 12 on the program. This sets a limit to the type of 13 assistance, such as vehicle repairs, 14 transportation, classroom support, work clothing 15 attire, tools, sometimes licensing reinstatement 16 based on the job requirements. Do you gentlemen 17 want to review those? 18 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Just for information 19 purposes for the audience: Vehicle repair could 20 be up to 250; transportation cost when searching 21 for jobs, $50 for two weeks; transportation for 22 job search, $50 for a bus ticket; support for 23 classroom training could be up to $500 at the 24 Caddo/Kiowa Vo-tech, one time for tuition and 25 books; clothing, work attire, tools could be as 0022 1 high as 150. The last thing is license 2 reinstatement. I guess that's car license. One 3 time assistance not to exceed $175. 4 MR. TIPPECONNIE: That's car or 5 professional license. 6 MR. BURGESS: CDL. 7 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: This is something 8 they hadn't done before? 9 MR. BURGESS. No. It's allowable in 10 the law. You can do this, but we need to set 11 limits because we have just a finite dollar we can 12 give out and try to share equally amongst our 13 participants. In the past, we've had one or two 14 individuals who came in and got the whole amount 15 and no one else was assisted. So setting these 16 limits and these parameters will hopefully allow 17 us to help other individuals on part, not just one 18 or two individuals. 19 MR. TIPPECONNIE: I make a motion to 20 approve. 21 MR. BURGESS: Motion to approve 22 Resolution 87-10 by Mr. Tippeconnie. Second? 23 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: I second that 24 motion. 25 MR. BURGESS: Second by Mark 0023 1 Wauahdooah. All those in favor signify by saying 2 "aye." 3 (Aye.) 4 MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same 5 sign. All those abstain, same sign. The ayes 6 have it. 7 All right. Resolution 88-10 is a 8 resolution that establishes those signatories to 9 the form, BIA Form 4432, which are elected 10 officials. This designates the CBC members can 11 sign these forms at any time requested if they're 12 here. Generally it's myself, the vice-chairman 13 and Mr. Tippeconnie have been here all the time. 14 This is adding Mr. RedElk, Mr. Wauahdooah, 15 Mr. Kosechequetah, Mr. Narcomey and removing the 16 names of the other members that are no longer on 17 the board. 18 MR. NARCOMEY: I make a motion to 19 approve, Mr. Chairman. 20 MR. BURGESS: Motion to approve by 21 Mr. Narcomey. Second? 22 MR. TIPPECONNIE: I'll second it. 23 MR. BURGESS: Second by Bob. 24 All those in favor signify by saying 25 "aye". 0024 1 (Aye.) 2 MR. REDELK: Discussion? William 3 Willie Nelson, we're deleting him as the TA? What 4 is -- 5 MR. BURGESS: It says duly elected 6 official body. These are elected officials that 7 go on the ballot, CBC. Even I, as the TA, was not 8 added at one time. That was a precedent. 9 MR. REDELK: So he's a hire? 10 MR. BURGESS: He's what? 11 MR. REDELK: He's a hire? 12 MR. BURGESS: His name is taken off 13 of here because he's not elected on the ballot. 14 MR. WHITEWOLF: But he's elected, 15 right? 16 MS. WAHNEE: If I may, I was advised 17 from the Bureau, because of the documents I have 18 to turn in, as long as he is not sitting in the 19 official capacity of work duty right now, his name 20 needs to be removed until he returns back to work. 21 Then if he does return back to work, then we'll 22 have to pass another one to add his name back on 23 that list. But this is just removing his name 24 until that situation is resolved. 25 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Is this a recent 0025 1 request from the Bureau? 2 MR. BURGESS: That was the same thing 3 that happened to me in 2004. 4 MS. WAHNEE: Anytime there's a change 5 in tribal officials, we have to have this on file 6 with the Bureau. It's an Indian Preference form. 7 So anybody that applies for a job with the 8 government or anything where they're claiming 9 Indian Preference, elected officials are the ones 10 that are allowed to sign that documentation. 11 MR. BURGESS: It was the same way in 12 2004. When I was supposedly fired, they took my 13 name off until I came back. 14 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Explain why 15 you were taken off. 16 MR. BURGESS: BIA had the same 17 ruling. If you're not here acting in the 18 capacity, then your name can't be on there to 19 sign. Back at that time they were using stamped 20 signatures. We're not using those anymore. 21 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: But why were 22 you released in the first place? 23 MR. BURGESS: False accusations. I 24 went to court and proved them false. 25 We call for the question. All those 0026 1 in favor signify by saying "aye." 2 (Aye.) 3 MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, say 4 "nay." All those abstain? 5 MR. REDELK: I abstain. 6 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Abstain. 7 MR. BURGESS: Motion passes. The 8 ayes have it. Two ayes, zero no and two 9 abstentions. Those two abstained over there. 10 Resolution 89-10 is approving a 11 submission of a grant of approximately $200,000 to 12 the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service of the Interior 13 Department. 14 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Make a motion to 15 approve 89-10. 16 MR. BURGESS: Motion to approve by 17 Mr. Tippeconnie. 18 MR. WHITEWOLF: What does that 19 entail? 20 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Yeah, I got a 21 question. What is this all about? 22 MR. BURGESS: The grant will involve 23 developing the Dodd property with funding to do 24 educational wildlife habitat support and 25 programming. What I mean by programming is to 0027 1 have activities out there. We're discussing what 2 kind of camping site can be established. It has a 3 waterway that runs through it. And we're trying 4 to get a grant to develop all that for our 5 educational youth programs but yet keeping it in 6 as much of a natural habitat as possible. Maybe 7 reintroducing some other plants out there that our 8 people can use. But also to do educational -- 9 take youth and kids out there for educational 10 purposes. 11 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Environmental 12 education. 13 MR. BURGESS: Thank you, 14 environmental education. 15 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Where is the 16 property located? I just remember a little bit. 17 Where is this property -- 18 MR. TIPPECONNIE: North of Indiahoma 19 up against the refuge. 20 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Who is going to be 21 supervising this? 22 MR. TIPPECONNIE: That hasn't been 23 determined. 24 MR. BURGESS: That hasn't been 25 determined. We've got to write the grant and get 0028 1 funding. There's going to be somebody -- we're 2 looking at possibly doing it under the EPA's 3 office. 4 Yes, Mrs. Gallegos? 5 MRS. GALLEGOS: How much did you say 6 the grant was for? 7 MR. BURGESS: Maximum $200,000. 8 MRS. GALLEGOS: Who wrote that 9 proposal? 10 MR. BURGESS: It's not written yet. 11 We've engaged Vanessa Vance to go ahead and write 12 for us. She's taking a survey of the property and 13 coming back with some ideas. We have until 14 September 15th to submit the grant. 15 Yes, Roland? 16 MR. MASON: Where did you say the 17 property was located? 18 MR. TIPPECONNIE: North of Indiahoma 19 up against the wildlife refuge. 20 MR. MASON: Does an individual own it 21 or the tribe? 22 MR. TIPPECONNIE: No, it's in 23 Comanche Nation name. 24 MR. MASON: How big a property is 25 it? 0029 1 MR. TIPPECONNIE: 320 acres. 2 MR. MASON: 320 acres? 3 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yes. It's a nice 4 property and it has features, you know, like the 5 refuge, rocks and little streams. 6 MR. MASON: Does it have existing 7 lakes? 8 MR. TIPPECONNIE: No lake. 9 MR. MASON: Just has a creek running 10 through it? 11 MR. TIPPECONNIE: An intermittent. 12 It depends on rain and all that. It's just got 13 features that would be nice to educate and keep it 14 in a natural state. We have had an informal group 15 looking it. They haven't been truly designated, 16 but there was an informal group that was put 17 together and they're sizing up what we can do 18 tentatively. But then if we get this grant, we 19 get into more detail and we have the opportunity 20 to do something. 21 MR. WHITEWOLF: When you say 22 education, what are you talking about? 23 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Well, where you 24 learn to have an experience in the outdoors and 25 what plants are and what animals are and how you 0030 1 can take care of an area. Those kind of things 2 we'd like to -- as well as to incorporate cultural 3 activities. Perhaps individuals who know 4 something about plants for medicinal reasons or 5 those kind of things. So that kind of education 6 and use of the area, we think it would be very 7 sharp for our young people to learn how to take 8 care of the land and respect the land and have an 9 experience on the land. 10 MR. WHITEWOLF: Turn back the clock, 11 so to speak. 12 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Well, I don't know 13 about turning back the clock, because a lot of 14 things are occurring on other lands. And maybe 15 they'll get appreciation to say I have this land, 16 this is something I can think about in the caring 17 of that land. 18 MR. MASON: This is just a question, 19 you know, if in fact a resolution is going to be 20 developed to express all those points you made. 21 But, now, I just wonder if that would clash with, 22 say, some cultural events. Like if at some point 23 in time in the future we decided that, hey, this 24 would be a real nice place to have a Comanche 25 powwow, and groups might use it. The resolution 0031 1 wouldn't clash and eliminate that cultural thing? 2 Because I think quite possibly in the future for 3 some oncoming thing, that may be a great thing. 4 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yes, I think you're 5 speaking well. Because when they get into the 6 grant, they have to look at all those. 7 MR. MASON: I understand this is just 8 the beginning, but somebody ought to make note in 9 there that cultural never be eliminated from that 10 property in acceptance of the grant, if in fact 11 that becomes a reality. 12 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yes, I think it's 13 an expressed component. 14 MR. MASON: Yes, I think it needs to 15 be written in there somehow that the cultural 16 won't cause the elimination of the grant. 17 MR. BURGESS: Thomas Narcomey and 18 then we'll come back to Roderick. 19 MR. TOM NARCOMEY: Since we don't 20 have any proposal writers to do the grant 21 application -- and I think it's about 30 percent. 22 The best proposal writers, they have 30 percent 23 they get funded. So when we get a consultant to 24 write it, we should put a provision in the 25 contract to revise a proposal and resubmit it. If 0032 1 it's ongoing, get another go-round at a certain 2 cost. At least try to tie it down, that way we 3 make sure we get it, or a better chance of getting 4 it. That's all I'm saying. I don't know that 5 it's been done right now. Like the people who 6 have been doing proposal writings who we contract 7 with, if there's a provision in there to revise 8 them, I don't know. Or if you pay 20,000, how 9 much is a revision going to cost, 5, 10, 15, I 10 don't know. I'm just bringing it up just in case. 11 MR. TIPPECONNIE: For continuance of 12 a future grant? 13 MR. TOM NARCOMEY: Like I said, we 14 got no planners or proposal writers for 25 years. 15 Maybe we'll get someone of those days. 16 MR. BURGESS: Thank you, Tom. You're 17 right. 18 MR. NARCOMEY: Mr. Chairman, did I 19 hear someone say matching funds, also? 20 MR. BURGESS: Not on this one, Clyde. 21 It's not required here. 22 MR. REDELK: Mr. Chairman, I make 23 that motion to approve this. 24 MR. TIPPECONNIE: You second it. I 25 made the motion. 0033 1 MR. REDELK: Okay, I'll second it. 2 MR. BURGESS: Second by Mr. RedElk. 3 Call for the question. All those in favor signify 4 by saying "aye". 5 (Aye.) 6 MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same 7 sign. All those abstain, same sign. Four ayes, 8 it passed. Thank you. 9 Resolution 90-10. This is going for 10 a grant with the U.S. Department of Health & Human 11 Services. This is a disaster assistance tribal 12 program grant going to HHS Office of 13 Administration on Aging, assisting us with 14 developing some plans. I believe it's elderly and 15 our program over there, the elder nutrition 16 center, in the amount of $100,000. 17 Again, we've never applied for either 18 one of those two grants, so we're stretching our 19 wings here trying to go for this extra funding to 20 help our programs. 21 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Now, this is for 22 disaster use? 23 MR. BURGESS: Yes, to plan for 24 disasters instead of funding for -- basically to 25 start planning and being prepared for any other 0034 1 disasters. 2 MR. TIPPECONNIE: It's becoming a 3 requirement even more and more that we have 4 disaster plans, that we have something to react to 5 if there's ever a disaster, over here, over there, 6 wherever. 7 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: So this is actually 8 planting seed monies rather than actual operations 9 type? 10 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yeah, yeah, for 11 assistance in case of disasters. 12 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: So if there's a 13 tornado that hits some house, we can't get $10,000 14 to -- this is just for planting seed monies? 15 MR. BURGESS: She's not here, but as 16 I understand it, it works through our AOA program 17 to help educate, inform, and plan for assisting 18 those members of our nutrition and those that we 19 consider the elders' category. Again, we've never 20 applied for this. It's been out there, but we 21 have to start doing it. 22 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: I make a motion we 23 accept this. 24 MR. BURGESS: Motion made by 25 Mr. Wauahdooah to accept. Second? 0035 1 MR. TIPPECONNIE: I'll second. 2 MR. BURGESS: Call for the question. 3 All those in favor signify by saying "aye." 4 (Aye.) 5 MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same 6 sign. All those abstain, same sign. The ayes 7 have it. 8 Okay. Now we have before us 9 Resolution 91-10. This is the resolution to 10 establish the voting date for approving the 11 development at the Red River Casino/Hotel, seeking 12 authorization to waive the limit of $3 million 13 capability to borrow to $40 million to construct 14 the Red River Casino and hotel. 15 MR. WHITEWOLF: Aren't you jumping 16 the gun? You haven't brought it to the general 17 council yet. 18 MR. BURGESS: It's a one-item thing. 19 A tribal council is everybody 18 and over. 20 MRS. GALLEGOS: That's what this is, 21 to have a general council on this issue. 22 MR. BURGESS: Well, we're going 23 around to the community informing everybody. So 24 you want to have a tribal council to have a vote 25 to put this to a ballot, is that what you're 0036 1 saying? It's a one-item thing. 2 MRS. GALLEGOS: Is this setting the 3 time and date regarding the -- 4 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Referendum. 5 MR. BURGESS: Referendum vote. 6 MRS. GALLEGOS: Referendum? 7 MR. BURGESS: Yeah. And it's only 8 one item, so it's not like we're going to have a 9 multiple five, 10 items that has to be discussed. 10 I don't see any need for a tribal council approval 11 one-item ballot. We've already gone through and 12 discussed it. We're going to be discussing it 13 some more. 14 MR. TIPPECONNIE: What we will likely 15 do -- or what we have done, I should say, in the 16 past, and we're open to this, is that this 17 resolution says, you know, that we'll set a 18 referendum date, a date when all 18 and above vote 19 on this. But accompanying -- or on that 20 resolution will be the details of what we're 21 doing. You know, what we're asking the tribal 22 members to vote upon, which is this addition or 23 expansion or new construction at Red River in the 24 amount of the 40 million. So that will go to vote 25 by referendum, and then they can say yes or no. 0037 1 MR. WHITEWOLF: You need a 2 constitutional amendment for that. 3 MR. TIPPECONNIE: What do you mean? 4 MR. WHITEWOLF: You need a 5 constitutional amendment for that. 6 MR. TIPPECONNIE: To go out on a 7 ballot? 8 MR. WHITEWOLF: Yeah, on this special 9 deal. 10 MR. TIPPECONNIE: We can do this now 11 if we go to the voters, all voters 18 and above. 12 It's constitutional. 13 MR. WHITEWOLF: The general council 14 would authorize y'all to go for that permission, 15 because y'all are an arm of the general council. 16 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yes, and the 17 general council -- 18 MR. WHITEWOLF: We give y'all the 19 authority to do whatever you're going to do. 20 MR. BURGESS: Tribal council. 21 MR. TIPPECONNIE: I agree. But it's 22 the tribal council, not general. The tribal 23 council is 18 and above. 24 MR. WHITEWOLF: No, there's no such 25 thing as that type of council. There's only one, 0038 1 and it's the general council, which is the people 2 that meet at a set date. 3 MR. TIPPECONNIE: If you go to the 4 constitution, it calls it the tribal council. 5 MR. WHITEWOLF: No, you're talking 6 about Chappabitty's constitution. 7 MR. TIPPECONNIE: No, our current 8 constitution. Can you read that, Mr. Burgess? 9 MR. BURGESS: Pull that quote up. 10 Mr. Mason, Roland, you had your hand up and then 11 Mr. Thomas Narcomey had his hand up. 12 MR. MASON: My question was, you 13 know, the one meeting that we held on this 14 particular issue just recently. 15 MR. BURGESS: Informational meeting. 16 MR. MASON: Yes. It was my 17 understanding that, just exactly what you said, 18 that the leadership, the elected officials, would 19 go out and inform the membership just exactly the 20 who, when, and why as to how this come to being. 21 Because you heard me argue the point out there 22 that the last the membership knew about any 23 expansion was we acquired that land out by the 24 river down there where we say we got 160 acres of 25 trust. 0039 1 Well, that was the last thing that 2 was mandated by the elected body. Now suddenly we 3 come up and somebody has decided we're going to 4 change from that issue that came off the floor of 5 the general council for you to be at fault. 6 Somebody changed that somewhere. Now they want to 7 expand the Red River. General council, at that 8 point in time, turned that down. So I can see 9 where there is going to be a constitutional 10 question, I think just like Mr. Whitewolf said. 11 But, again, we'll hear counsel's expression of 12 that. 13 But now here's what I wanted to say. 14 If in fact the leadership here, CBC, will go out 15 into the community -- not one, not two, not 16 three. The elected body goes out and -- if in 17 fact you support it. We don't really know if 18 Mr. RedElk supports it, Mr. Wauahdooah, yourself. 19 We don't know the positions of each individual up 20 there. That's part of the information that we, as 21 a member, need to know. Because if you don't 22 support it, how can you ask the membership to 23 support it? 24 So is it the gaming board that 25 brought this forward, is it the CEO that brought 0040 1 it forward? We need to know so -- and it's not to 2 be -- trying to aggravate you, please understand. 3 It's not -- 4 MR. TIPPECONNIE: It's just good 5 questions. 6 MR. MASON: It's to inform the 7 membership so we, in turn, can make a right 8 decision. So we can go together in a bunch. Hey, 9 we're Comanches. Let's go up together or down 10 together. Let's don't have suspicions of somebody 11 right in the beginning. That's all I'm trying to 12 say. 13 And so if there was some way in this 14 resolution that you would write into there that, 15 yes, the elected body will be on site when these 16 community meetings take place. And if I 17 understood you right, they would be all in the 18 voting places, you know. And rather than assign 19 one guy over here and another guy over there, you 20 know, when you come together in a group as 21 leaders, I think that has more showing -- 22 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Expression. 23 MR. MASON: United. And you can get 24 there and you can voice your opinion whether you 25 support it, not support it, or whatever. But I 0041 1 mean, the people really need to know that. So I 2 would say if that resolution hasn't already been 3 written -- in fact, it may. We may have to redo 4 everything you've already done if we hear the 5 opinion of the council at the moment. I think -- 6 MR. BURGESS: Mr. Burgess, Ron 7 Burgess, you had your hand up. 8 MR. RON BURGESS: What you're 9 proposing is to have all the people vote on it. 10 That's what they're talking about here. I mean, 11 to me, it's the same thing. If you don't agree 12 with it after it's explained to you on the ballot, 13 then vote no, period. It doesn't require a 14 constitutional change or anything. This is how we 15 operate. You let everybody have their say-so and 16 they vote yes or no, period. If you don't explain 17 it well on the ballot, they're going to be 18 confused and they'll vote no. The people have 19 always done that. They go through this, they 20 participate in it. And this is the way to get 21 everybody involved, not just a handful of people 22 over here at the gym over here raising hell. You 23 get the same people over there. Put it out to all 24 the people like you're talking about. That's what 25 we need to do, that's how we need to go about 0042 1 this. And if it's denied, it's denied. 2 MR. BURGESS: It's just a one-item 3 thing. It's the whole tribal council. To count 4 the ballots to vote yes or no to put it on the 5 ballot runs a minimum of 10, $15,000. You want to 6 go ahead? 7 MR. NORMAN: Article 5, Section 1 of 8 the current constitution says that the tribal 9 council shall consist of all members of the 10 Comanche Nation who are 18 years of age or older. 11 In 2006, that membership passed a resolution 12 limiting the business committee's authority to 13 enter into contracts for more than $3 million that 14 included a waiver of sovereign immunity. And in 15 that referendum vote, they required to come back 16 to a referendum if there was a proposal to 17 increase the amount of the waiver. So by virtue 18 of prior action of the tribal council through a 19 referendum, this body is asking that same body to 20 authorize an increase in the waiver of immunity 21 for this particular project. 22 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: I think there has to 23 be great communication. I think this is falling 24 short, in the example of the meeting last 25 Saturday. I'm for economic development, but I 0043 1 believe also in the tradition of the Numunu, which 2 is coming together in tribal council. We go to a 3 new western theology of a Greek democracy and 4 we're going away from tradition. I believe that 5 we've got to have, first, this special tribal 6 council meeting in person here, and then it would 7 go to a referendum vote. So I would be against 8 this resolution right here. 9 MR. BURGESS: Mr. Nauni had his hand 10 up. 11 MR. NAUNI: I will address my 12 comments to the committee. I'm having real 13 difficulty, because right now, as a tribal member, 14 I'm concerned about the future next year. You 15 gentlemen have been elected, you're in your 16 positions. Okay. What has happened this year is 17 we've approved a budget in a new fashion. All 18 these years in the past, the constitution -- and 19 our attorneys can check this out -- says the 20 general council has to approve the budget that we 21 operate every year. That has not been done yet. 22 And until that's done, we can't proceed with any 23 kind of financial commitments. I don't see -- you 24 know, I don't even know how much money we have. 25 You know, and, you know, I think back 0044 1 to a company called Camp IT. When we -- we had a 2 body that went ahead and borrowed $2 million, you 3 know, there's nothing in existence today that says 4 Comanche Camp IT on it. It was all a fluke. Then 5 I remember a company called Circo. You know, the 6 body up there developed Circo. Well, I don't see 7 no Comanche Circo to this day. We put a lot of 8 money out there. Just recently we got a casino, 9 you know. Supposedly the business committee 10 allowed a $3 million loan. You ended up paying 11 $12 million back on that, you know. 12 And I'm personally a tribal member 13 that's concerned about when we learn about our 14 past experiences. When are we going to learn that 15 we got to make sure that we're doing -- we know 16 what we're doing here? And, you know, not for 17 just right now. I mean, I'd love to see our tribe 18 advance. But if we let this situation go now, 19 then next year comes along, what are we going to 20 do? Are we going have to have a general council 21 or are we going to have a referendum vote to 22 approve our budget? Well, there's things on our 23 budget now that I don't particularly agree with. 24 Well, if we go to a referendum vote, I don't have 25 a chance to speak to that, nobody did. That's not 0045 1 right. 2 The general council, the 3 constitution -- our attorneys can check this 4 out -- it says you have to have an established 5 quorum. You can't establish a quorum when you do 6 a referendum vote. But it speaks about 7 establishing a quorum first and then you have to 8 have your general council. We have to have that, 9 gentlemen. If we don't, then you violate that 10 constitution. 11 Right now you're going in a direction 12 that you don't even know where you're going. I 13 don't know, I guess you guys know how much money 14 we have. We don't and we're the general council. 15 We should know because it's our money. We elected 16 you people to take care of our money. We need to 17 know. That's all I'm saying. 18 MR. BURGESS: Are you researching 19 that, there, Norman? 20 MR. NORMAN: Yes, I've got it. The 21 provisions of the constitution referring to the 22 budget are Article VI, Section 7(d). It's to -- 23 this is the responsibility of the business 24 committee to develop annual budgets for financing 25 the Comanche tribal operations and to present such 0046 1 budgets to the tribal council for final 2 consideration as to adoption or rejection. The 3 proposed annual tribal operating budget shall be 4 disseminated to tribal members 45 days prior to 5 the annual meeting. That's Section 1. 6 Section 2: The budget shall be 7 printed on a ballot in such manner that each line 8 item may be approved or disapproved by the tribal 9 members. 10 And Item 3 is, the line items of the 11 budget shall be approved or disapproved in the 12 election of officers conducted subsequent to the 13 annual meeting pursuant to Article VII, Section 2 14 in which the tribal officers are elected. 15 So the responsibility of the business 16 committee is to develop a budget, present the 17 budget 45 days prior to the annual meeting. But 18 it is the tribal council who votes in a referendum 19 line item on the budget. 20 MR. BURGESS: Tribal council is? 21 MR. NORMAN: All members 18 and 22 older. 23 MR. BURGESS: Mr. Tahkopfer? 24 MR. TAHKOPFER: Yes, I just wanted to 25 say, I'm like Mr. Wauahdooah. I think this issue 0047 1 is important enough to have a general council -- 2 MR. BURGESS: Tribal council, special 3 tribal council you're asking for? 4 MR. TAHKOPFER: Special tribal 5 council, yes, because this is a very important 6 question. It goes back to the old saying that we 7 don't know out here how much money the casinos 8 generate because they do their own accounting. 9 We're not able to see how much is spent on 10 salaries, meetings, and stuff. We have no record 11 of what this is. And until we know who all 12 formulated this plan to go ahead with this, you 13 know, who all's behind this. 14 And what's the reason our profits 15 supposedly are going down? Is it the economy? Is 16 it how the people are treated down there? Are 17 there other variables down there? Have they made 18 a study of that to see why? Maybe they're not 19 paying enough winnings down there. All these 20 things need to be studied before we can make an 21 intelligent decision. 22 But mainly, people need to know what 23 the heck is going on. We don't know. We have no 24 accounting of daily or weekly revenues that flow 25 through that casino, because they have their own 0048 1 system of accounting that we're not supposed to 2 see. So I think it's a big question. Until 3 that's answered, you're going to have a lot of 4 people who will probably say until I know more, 5 you know, I won't vote on this. I'm not against 6 it, but I'm just like anybody else, I'd like to 7 know and I'd like to see it in black and white. 8 MR. BURGESS: I'll give you an 9 updated governmental funds report, Comanche 10 Nation, ending June 30th, 2010. 11 MR. WHITEWOLF: Why don't you just 12 give us a printout so we can read it? 13 MR. BURGESS: I'll give you an 14 updated right now. If you want it, it will be 15 recorded. Total governmental funds is $12,028,835 16 as the end of June 30th. That's what we're 17 operating on. Now, total budget of our general 18 funds is -- total budget, what was budgeted is 19 $28,613,353. That's what was approved in the 20 prior year to operate 2010. 21 MR. TIPPECONNIE: This fiscal year? 22 MR. BURGESS: This fiscal year. 23 That's what we're operating on. And we have a 24 balance to spend -- we're 60 percent under budget 25 total. So we have a balance last of $17,081,000. 0049 1 That's federal funds. Now, that's going to be 2 recorded. But that's -- we have a monthly sheet 3 that's given to us. 4 Now, here's the thing. I brought it 5 up last month. We're all going to be happy that 6 we're making money. We're all happy that we're 7 providing programs. The current budget, because 8 we expect the economy -- how many of you work in 9 housing? How many do construction, buy homes, 10 real estate? Unemployment is still at 9.5 11 percent. New home purchases is down. Used homes 12 or secondary market homes is down. That's two 13 indicators right there that the economy has not 14 improved. And our casinos, since 2004 or 2003 15 that I know of, have been doing monthly draw- 16 downs. 17 Prior to 2003, the casinos received 18 an annual transfer of cash from the casinos to the 19 tribes, whatever that money was that was earned 20 and according to the RAP. In 2003 -- somewhere 21 between 2003, 2004, the tribe has been doing 22 monthly drawdowns. Those monthly drawdowns are 23 affected by the play at the casino, and the 24 economy affects the players. Overall, the nation 25 has improved its gaming at the casinos since the 0050 1 renovation. 2 MR. TIPPECONNIE: At Lawton. 3 MR. BURGESS: At Lawton. Play was up 4 by 15 percent over last year at this time when the 5 economy was in the tank, at the bottom of the 6 tank. We don't expect it to get any better. If 7 you pay attention to the unemployment rate, 8 joblessness rate, the loss of income nationwide, 9 it's not going to improve. 10 We are struggling hard to keep 11 everybody employed here that is willing to work. 12 We are looking to create other jobs, but it's not 13 going to happen if we divulge all of our monies, 14 divulge all of our income to the general public 15 like publishing our budget out there. As soon as 16 we publish our budget, do you believe that prices 17 won't increase 3 to 5 percent at the stores we 18 shop at? I believe they will and they do. In 19 this three-county area, prices go up for the 20 months of October through November when we get per 21 cap and elders' payments. That affects -- what we 22 say we got affects these proprietors out there. 23 They're not above gouging us. And a lot of our 24 people live on credit; those who can't work and 25 those who are living on limited income. They get 0051 1 gouged. 2 So to divulge our total income and 3 everything on a regular basis is to tell our 4 competitors how good we're doing. And what does 5 that do? That helps them become more competitive, 6 reduce their prices, and take our people to go 7 gamble at Fort Sill. That doesn't help us in the 8 long run. I mean, if you're not trusting, there's 9 nothing I can tell you different than this. 10 And you want me to print this out and 11 hand it all out, and then it goes everywhere else 12 but just to Comanches. I have a right to say 13 this. Because as a leader and as one who's 14 concerned about our future and protecting our 15 income, we can't tell our competition what we're 16 doing and how we're doing it. That's not good 17 business. We may as well not be in business. 18 Just fold it up and go home. 19 MR. WHITEWOLF: I wasn't talking 20 about disburse that in the paper, I was wanting it 21 right here so we could absorb it. Now you're 22 talking about changing what the constitution 23 says. If you feel that strong, get an amendment 24 and change it. 25 MR. BURGESS: Wait a minute. I'm 0052 1 referring to the comments about what are we 2 making, we don't know, what's the cost, we don't 3 know this, why don't we -- if we divulge all that 4 -- we've lost four employees who were key 5 employees at the nation because they went for more 6 money elsewhere who were helping us. When they 7 left us, what did they take? The knowledge and 8 background of what we plan to do in the future, 9 and then they go to the new employer and can 10 compete better against us because they know our 11 plans. That's not good business either. 12 MR. WHITEWOLF: If we're losing 13 money -- 14 MR. BURGESS: We're not losing money. 15 MR. WHITEWOLF: If we're not losing 16 money -- 17 MR. BURGESS: I'm telling you that 18 the renovation at Lawton is doing great. The 19 marketing there is better than what it was 20 previously. Now, when you see that parking lot 21 full on Friday night, that's about 240 cars, twice 22 as many parking spaces as Fort Sill, and people 23 think it's half empty. I was in there last 24 Friday. Again, I couldn't find a machine that I 25 liked to play, but that place was busy. If I go 0053 1 to Fort Sill, I don't want to stand in line to 2 wait on a machine. You know, I don't want to do 3 that. So I play at our place or I'll go to Red 4 River to look at it. 5 And it's -- this renovation attracted 6 more players and older players who came back to 7 us. And the marketing club, the C Club, that has 8 brought more gaming to us because they market to 9 the people who game the most. Us people like me 10 who might bet $40 once a week and go home, they're 11 not going to market to me. But somebody who comes 12 in here three times a week and spends $100 a 13 night, they market to them. That's real 14 marketing. I had a hand over here and then Karl. 15 I'm sorry, Pat, go ahead. Blue and 16 then Karl. 17 MRS. WHITEWOLF: Mike, I just wonder 18 why every time y'all are asked a question -- now, 19 you're our leader. We ask you a question, you 20 have to look over here at these taiboos for the 21 answer. Now, I know you guys know the answer. I 22 don't know why y'all don't speak up and answer the 23 question yourself. You know, they're here for 24 legal help for the tribe, yeah, but we don't need 25 them all the time. 0054 1 MR. BURGESS: There's two things they 2 did, which some of you didn't hear. They 3 responded to who tribal council is, and they 4 responded that there's no terminology in our 5 constitution about general council. There's no 6 terminology. 7 MRS. WHITEWOLF: I know. But Mark 8 knew that, didn't you? And I know Ron did. 9 MR. BURGESS: I know it. I've said 10 it before time and time again. 11 MRS. WHITEWOLF: But you didn't speak 12 up and answer us. Instead we have to let this 13 taiboo interpret for us. 14 MR. BURGESS: And I don't have the 15 constitution in front of me -- excuse me, Pat. 16 I'm not trying to argue. I don't have it in front 17 of me, but when I did have it and read from it, 18 people called me a liar. 19 MRS. WHITEWOLF: No, but when you're 20 running for your seats, you know, don't y'all know 21 the constitution before you get behind that 22 table? That's all I'm saying. We don't want to 23 look over here and let these taiboos interpret the 24 constitution for us, or anything really. This is 25 our government, this is our business. But every 0055 1 time we meet, you have to pull them in. And it's 2 really none of their business. We're always 3 having to have a taiboo tell us what to do, when 4 we can go out that door, when we can come in. 5 Can't we do that ourselves without being told? 6 We're born, we go to school, we meet the taiboos 7 there. They start in on us. I mean, y'all can 8 call me prejudiced or whatever you want to call 9 it, but this is ours. And I just don't think you 10 need to have those two taiboos sitting over there 11 every time we're going to meet, every time we're 12 going to talk. 13 And you guys answer questions, jump 14 in. Don't just wait for Mike. You know, when we 15 see -- when we voted for you, dadgummit, we 16 believed in you. He's a leader. Yeah, we'll vote 17 for him, him, whatever. And now when we come, we 18 ask the question, and Mike looks at the lawyer 19 over here and all of y'all turn over there and 20 listen, too. I just don't understand why you have 21 to let these taiboos interpret everything for 22 y'all. 23 MR. BURGESS: Pat, they don't 24 interpret everything for us. And I think they'll 25 tell you that I've had to interpret for them 0056 1 sometimes. I look at Will Owens who was sitting 2 there. Hang on. You had a hand up over here, 3 Blue? 4 MR. PAHDOCODNY: I have a comment and 5 it's kind of a question, too. I've been listening 6 to what everybody's been saying about this 7 particular resolution. I guess, you know, because 8 myself, I'm not too informed myself. So, you 9 know, for me as a Comanche member to make a 10 decision as to which way I go on, I'd like to feel 11 more comfortable about what is in that 12 resolution. So, you know, I think basically we're 13 all saying let us make a formal -- you know, make 14 a sound decision on this by informing us. 15 Now, I understand where you're coming 16 from, about the business aspect of it. There's 17 got to be somewhere in the middle there because, 18 you know, a lot of times I'll vote for something 19 or I'll go to the voting thing, and we don't -- 20 you know, most of the people I ask questions about 21 it don't know. Because usually the information 22 that is about that particular item, whatever it 23 may be, hasn't been available until the day of 24 voting. And then you can't really make a sound 25 decision as to the vote. And this seems to me 0057 1 like a very important thing to talk about, whether 2 it's 40 million, 3 million or whatever. Something 3 like that, it needs to go to the people or 4 something. That's where I'm at. 5 The question is: How do we go about 6 doing that? And I don't know, I'm -- 7 MR. BURGESS: Well, one of those was 8 that meeting last Saturday that we had 9 approximately 50 people at that was announced and 10 called out. 11 MR. PAHDOCODNY: So I'm saying 12 there's got to be a way that maybe we need to -- 13 MR. BURGESS: At the same time, 14 there's going to be a mailer coming out to 15 everybody. With that mailer will be an address -- 16 for those who are computer savvy, there'll be an 17 address that you can go to on the computer where 18 you can read more or send questions to. 19 MR. PAHDOCODNY: Okay. Will there be 20 a resolution so we can read that and see what it 21 is? 22 MR. BURGESS: Well, we can probably 23 make that available later, but we can also put it 24 on the Website. Again, we can tell our 25 competitors what we're doing. 0058 1 MR. PAHDOCODNY: That might be a 2 good thing to do. That way, you know, as a 3 Comanche member I can get on there and look it 4 over and see exactly what's in there. 5 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Blue, I was under 6 the impression -- well, first of all, being on the 7 gaming board commission automatically is the CBC. 8 Last Saturday started a promo, promotional thing 9 for this here. I think they were expecting 300. 10 30, 50 people showed up. Half of those -- a third 11 of them were casino people. Now we're going to go 12 supposedly to Oklahoma City this -- Norman this 13 Thursday, followed by the 14th in Dallas, followed 14 by a trip later on to Sacramento, followed by a 15 trip to Albuquerque on the 21st of August. 16 But it's a promotional, informational 17 dialogue that's supposed to be going out. 18 Afterwards, I thought we were going to come back 19 to a special tribal council and have a vote about 20 this in order to see if we were going to 21 referendum vote or not. But I want the people to 22 be fully informed. There's pros and cons about 23 this thing marketing-wise, time-wise. And as the 24 chairman has announced, our budgeting crisis is 25 going to be increased with a 60/40 split if it's 0059 1 approved by the Bureau. There's going to be 2 halving of all the tribal budgets in the future if 3 that comes about, but you need to be informed. 4 MR. PAHDOCODNY: Exactly, that's my 5 point, you know. 6 MR. BURGESS: Mr. Tahkopfer had his 7 hand up. 8 MR. TAHKOPFER: What I was saying a 9 while ago, what you said when you gave a report on 10 the revenues and stuff, that's good enough. That 11 will suffice without giving the farm away, so to 12 speak. But what I'm getting at is I think what 13 the people don't know, and I don't know, is what 14 is really causing these profits to drop? Is it 15 the economy? Is it other variables in there that 16 are not being accounted for? And if they could 17 make an in-depth study of that on a graph -- 18 profitability or odds that are paid against total 19 number of people playing, total revenue coming in 20 per day, per week or whatever, and then compare 21 those graphs and lay them down over each other, 22 they'll cross somewhere and it will give you an 23 idea of where the problem lies. And that's where 24 you attack it. Rather than just saying, well, 25 it's because of the economy, and we really don't 0060 1 know what's causing this drop. There's something 2 causing it. 3 MR. BURGESS: Well, there is 4 something -- if I can come to that and then we'll 5 come back to you, Benal. There is one thing that 6 is causing it at the Red River Casino, which was 7 the largest income producer. It's our competition 8 down the road. Kiowa Casino has received Class II 9 machines. Mr. Codopony may know something about 10 this. Oscar, later on if you want to -- the play 11 down at Red River Casino. Our competition is up 12 at Kiowa Casino because they've increased their 13 Class II machines. The majority of our players 14 love the Class II machines. They're older, they 15 know them, and they have an idea of when payout 16 will happen. You can read the bingo screen, and 17 if you know -- you're good at it, Karl. You know 18 probabilities. 19 MR. TAHKOPFER: I'm not against 20 this. I'm not against it, you know. I'm for it 21 to help the tribe. 22 MR. BURGESS: So our Red River Casino 23 has not been updated. New carpet was the year 24 afterwards, after it opened in about 2003. That's 25 the best we've done. Play is down. It's big on 0061 1 weekends, maybe Friday through Sunday afternoons, 2 but it gets overcrowded, smells like smoke, 3 machines are wearing out. Our facilities are 4 wearing down. 5 So upgrading it, making it 6 attractive, making it more atmosphere-wise 7 enjoyable. Like the Comanche Nation Casino here. 8 People are coming back and they like the 9 atmosphere. And, yes, some people will complain 10 about the service, but, you know, others are 11 saying, well, they don't treat me any differently, 12 it's just as friendly, if I know them or 13 whatever. And people don't walk in there to make 14 friends, that I know of, unless you're going to 15 meet a friend. They're there to play. 16 At the same time, it's down at Red 17 River because we're looking dilapidated, we're 18 looking old. We've got to uplift that interior 19 and redesign the floor, which they're going 20 through now. The person who helped guide the 21 growth over here, Phillip Glass, he's now the 22 general manager down there at Red River. 23 Did you want to speak, Oscar? 24 MR. CODOPONY: Just to kind of 25 expound on the point that you've made about the 0062 1 Class II and Class III games. Originally when the 2 Kiowa opened, they were under -- because of their 3 previous transgressions, so to speak, when they 4 had the casino and bingo hall up in Carnegie, they 5 opened under special order. They had to go 6 through a certain proofing period before they were 7 able to expand their floors and change up to the 8 Class II games, which most of -- like the chairman 9 was saying, most of our current players like to 10 play. 11 So when they expanded that -- when 12 they got out from that original vendor and they 13 got under -- they were able to expand their 14 selection of machines, they started eating into 15 our customer base. And, again, as a gaming 16 commission, we're the regulatory body. We watch 17 what goes on within the facility, but we don't do 18 the hiring, we don't do the firing, we don't talk 19 about how marketing goes. We just make sure that 20 once the money's made, it gets to the nation like 21 it's supposed to get to the nation. 22 But one of the things that we 23 observed -- and we just had a meeting about this. 24 And we pass information along to management all 25 the time. That facility, we went in there the 0063 1 other day and we were looking at some machines 2 because the handle on the front wasn't secure. 3 There's a double lock on each one of these 4 machines. There's a lock to get into the gut of 5 the machine where you see all of the hardware that 6 operates it, and then with this vendor there's a 7 lock for the money bin. So you've got to have two 8 separate keys to get into it. 9 Well, what came to the attention of 10 surveillance was that on one of the machines, the 11 outside door that just lets you open and look 12 inside was just held together by duct tape. So we 13 got down there, we talked to management and said 14 you guys need to get that fixed. Well, in that 15 same observation, we noticed a lot of the floor 16 carpeting was duct taped, which is not our 17 responsibility, it's the management side. They 18 were talking about needing to repair that. 19 There's a lot of cosmetic things that 20 make it enjoyable for a customer to come down. Do 21 you want to go to a new facility that has brand 22 new accoutrements, brand new restaurant, or do you 23 want to go to a place where we're making due 24 because we're putting duct tape on the floor so we 25 can keep the carpet down so you don't trip? 0064 1 I mean, a lot of these questions that 2 you're talking about, even though we, as 3 regulators, don't have direct control over it, we 4 pass that information along to management all the 5 time. You want to keep plowing money back into 6 the same facility to change that, or provide 7 something that you're going to attract more 8 customers that are going to spend more money that 9 are going to generate more revenue for the 10 nation. 11 Sorry for that last part, but to kind 12 of go over the Class II, Class III games. 13 MR. BURGESS: Benal? 14 MRS. WHITEWOLF: My question is who 15 is paying for these trips to Sacramento and Dallas 16 and everywhere? 17 MR. BURGESS: Well, after discussion 18 with Mr. Chappabitty and asking how he had 19 actually had numbers come to Sacramento back when 20 we had the constitutional meeting, come to find 21 out half of those people were in Sacramento from 22 Southern California to attend the National 23 Congress of American Indians. They didn't come 24 specifically for that, they capitalized on that 25 trip. So we decided to cancel any trips to 0065 1 Sacramento. 2 What we would like to do is do a 3 broadcast to those members who want to plug in one 4 day to open discussion on the Internet. You send 5 them where the doorway is, they lock into it, and 6 then they tune in at their computer and sit and 7 ask questions or hear the discussion. And we'll 8 put the display that we had on PowerPoint, put 9 that on the screen, too, so they can see all the 10 numbers and hear all of this. So we're looking at 11 setting that up instead of going to Sacramento. 12 So possibly the only two trips will be to Dallas. 13 We're looking at a different date than we wanted. 14 Hopefully the 28th. And then Albuquerque, they'll 15 let us know if the 21st is going to work. 16 MRS. MASON: And then is the tribe 17 paying for it? 18 MR. BURGESS: We'll have to. It will 19 be two or three of us going. 20 MRS. WHITEWOLF: You're not willing 21 to give those of us here a sheet of paper telling 22 us what's what, but you're willing to go out there 23 and voice what you're going to tell them. Why 24 can't you do that with us? 25 MR. BURGESS: Well, we planned that 0066 1 here last Saturday. People asked us to go to the 2 local meeting, so we got it set up, the community 3 center, and have a meeting there in the evening. 4 That's what was asked on the floor there, and so 5 that's why we're going to look at doing that. 6 MR. MASON: I think a little bit -- 7 if you set priority as to where the meetings, the 8 dates and times, since most of your Comanches are 9 local. You know, when I say local, I want to 10 include the Walters folk, Anadarko, Cache, 11 Lawton. The great numbers are here. So before 12 you consider going over to Dallas -- and we always 13 hear about the group in Albuquerque. And I got 14 nothing against them, but it seems that they 15 somehow have some kind of real power that makes us 16 react to them. And I'm sure there's numbers out 17 there, don't get me wrong. I'm sure there's 18 numbers in Oklahoma City. 19 But what I'm saying is your great 20 body of Comanches are local. And I think priority 21 on the information list that the elected body is 22 going to go out and dispense information, like 23 just some of these questions that are being asked 24 today, those thing are going to resurface. And 25 until you satisfy that local group of Indians -- 0067 1 and if you can't satisfy them, there's no need to 2 go off into the wilderness. 3 Now, that being said, I can see that 4 already we've mingled several issues all behind 5 this resolution here. Part of that being, you 6 know, there was even a challenge to our lawyers 7 over here. They work for us, they're hired by us, 8 and they have every right to be at all these 9 meetings. Because when we look to them, it's not 10 looking to them to ask them where should we build 11 our roads, how about -- unless it's a legal 12 question that we directed to them, that's the only 13 time they interject their selves. And there was a 14 great need for that. Because our constitution, as 15 written, has a lot of gray areas. There's a lot 16 of need for improvement. 17 But anytime -- what's so scary about 18 it is if we don't have input. Let me just bring 19 you back to a situation that just finalized. If 20 we knew the dollar amount that was already spent 21 to produce this product of a brand new 22 constitution, and then it was prepared to be 23 brought to the general council for a yes or no 24 vote without very much local participation, you 25 know, it was a dead duck. Any time we go to 0068 1 tamper with the constitution, although there's a 2 great need, you've got to have input from folks 3 like this. You can't do it with the educated 4 people. There's a need for it, don't get me 5 wrong. Just like there's a great need for these 6 gentlemen sitting over here. They're a part of 7 us. They're our lawyers. And when we ask them 8 something, it's in a legal sense. 9 And let me just clarify one thing 10 that maybe some of the folks didn't understand. 11 And council, you can correct me if I'm wrong. 12 What has happened and what gives these gentlemen 13 here the right to put out a referendum vote is the 14 fact that back in the past, we did allow a 15 procedural step by step to get this to where we're 16 at right now with this issue. Not just with this 17 one issue, but what makes this so legal is all the 18 things are defined and everything. That cap that 19 we put on them so we couldn't allow them to run 20 wild out there and just make contracts on their 21 own ability, we capped them. So now they have to 22 come back and ask us to remove that cap, because 23 this is a $40 million expansion. And my -- I'm 24 like Karl, Mr. Tahkopfer back here. There's 25 probably a lot of us going to be in support of 0069 1 this thing if we can get all those -- they may 2 call them mundane questions, but to us, the 3 uninformed, they're great questions, and that's 4 all we're asking for. 5 But I can see that -- from what I 6 see, council, am I right on that procedural step? 7 This is a step just to complete -- and they 8 already have the right. But now this referendum 9 vote will allow them to remove that cap that we 10 put on them to go to the 40 million. Prior to 11 that was we had the 3 million. They could do 12 anything in the $3 million range there. Once you 13 go beyond that, it's something else. So that's 14 where they're at now. And they're trying to 15 develop that resolution to allow that to happen. 16 But what you hear out here from the membership is 17 why don't you give us more information before they 18 ask us to make a big decision? 19 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: This is a dangerous 20 proposal. It will radically change the decision 21 making of the Comanche Tribe this day forward if 22 it passes. 23 Sir, you have a question? 24 MR. BURGESS: Hang on a second. 25 James, I know you. 0070 1 You're right, Roland, in that we have 2 to come back to tribal council in order to lift 3 this $3 million cap. There were a lot of us who 4 didn't get our voice in about why 3 million. Why 5 was it so low? Were you looking at the future or 6 just now? Because that was four or five years 7 ago. Today, we barely buy $3 million of toilet 8 paper -- I use that as a euphemism -- because all 9 the paper we have to buy Comanche-government 10 wide. The money we put into supplies and the cost 11 of all that. And why weren't they thinking 12 future? Why weren't they planning that there was 13 a plan to develop these casinos and expand? They 14 didn't plan because they didn't think of planning 15 it. Why do we give 40 percent and now we're 16 asking for 60 percent per cap? Where's the plan 17 to let these casinos have 2 percent or 3 percent 18 of net profits set aside for future development? 19 See, we're sitting here talking about 20 that, but we're not talking the future either. To 21 me, $3 million at that time in 2006 was not 22 enough. If our people had been prudent and had 23 these meetings as you mentioned, and some of us 24 wanted it, but the body that sat here at that time 25 just wanted to make that decision and go forward. 0071 1 They made it internally, they come out and told us 2 what they're going to do and didn't ask for it. 3 There was no Comanche meetings. Because I was one 4 asking them how come you're not planning a 5 percentage for repair, maintenance, and future 6 development. That's what we got to plan here, 7 maintenance and development. 8 Before we even ask for 60 percent, 9 why aren't we saying people, let us put 5 percent 10 in here out of net to go back to the casino for 11 future development? This is what we had to do. 12 They had to go and pay off the lawsuits that were 13 caused by the past and then look at developing 14 somehow for the future. They had to do it 15 internally. Now, this ability for us to use RAP 16 to use 10 percent between programs, that's after 17 the fact. Then we have to turn around and give it 18 right back to the casino for development, and 19 that's not right. 20 So everybody wants to cut economic 21 development down. You're not thinking of the 22 future. If you don't let us plan a better 23 economic development base, you're not thinking of 24 the future when you go for 60 percent per cap. 25 That's may response, Roland. I agree with you. 0072 1 We need to inform the local community. They 2 should be -- 3 MR. MASON: So you, yourself, can 4 understand just how uninformed we are. Because 5 the last thing prior to me coming to the meeting 6 that we held here recently on this issue, I was 7 still under the impression that we were still in a 8 development situation on I-40, that land 9 acquisition down there. And I'm sure most people 10 still -- they built us a wonderful dream out 11 there. Goodness, I could have went and walked out 12 of there knocking buttons off my shirt because my 13 chest was out so high. I just seen all our dreams 14 come true, that the Comanche Nation would in fact 15 become a gaming force in Southwest Oklahoma, which 16 I believe we should be. Hey, we were here before 17 anybody, you know. 18 That being said, you can see one of 19 the things that are on the membership's mind. 20 Somebody, somewhere, somehow, at sometime decided 21 they were smarter than the general council, or 22 they eliminated the big player. There's three 23 bodies here when it comes to gaming, three. You 24 people, elected body, which has a lot of 25 authority; gaming board, which has -- we don't 0073 1 know the limits of their authority. That can be 2 looked at and questioned. And the group, the 3 membership itself. You can't eliminate any one of 4 those three horses there. They're all in the same 5 pot. 6 MR. BURGESS: Mr. Nelson, James, you 7 had your hand up quite some time. 8 MR. NELSON: Yes, sir. What the 9 lawyer read about Article V, Section 5 is not 10 what's in our constitution. This is something you 11 violated at the last tribal meeting. What he 12 wrote about Article VI, Section 7, he was 13 correct. So both of these are unconstitutional. 14 MR. BURGESS: So it's in the 15 constitution, so we're following an 16 unconstitutional constitution? 17 MR. NELSON: No, you are. 18 MR. BURGESS: I am? Well, if it's in 19 the constitution -- 20 MR. NELSON: You said standing -- 21 Article V, Section 5 has to do with your 22 discretion of a standing vote count, a ballot 23 count. You had a voice count. That's against the 24 constitution. Article VII, Section 6(d), you had 25 it right, and I think general council showed that 0074 1 we are indeed informed, because everybody in the 2 seven-county area voted down 90 percent of the 3 budget. Absentees carried everything else. 4 So to me, these are people who do not 5 know what's going on. What he read about Article 6 V, Section 5 just now before we got into all these 7 other conversations, I do not understand. If you 8 need a constitution, I have one for you right 9 here. So we're looking to them for help. He 10 sounded good when he read it, but it was wrong, 11 according to our own constitution. 12 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Very good point. 13 I'm curious -- going back to the main subject on 14 this Comanche Business Committee, I'm curious to 15 find out what other members think about this. 16 MR. NELSON: I don't think there's a 17 gray area at all with our constitution. 18 MR. WHITEWOLF: I don't either. 19 MR. NELSON: There's gray areas for 20 the people who interpret it the way they want it 21 to be interpreted. 22 MR. MASON: Therein lies the gray 23 areas. 24 MR. BURGESS: Mr. Narcomey? 25 MR. TOM NARCOMEY: What attorney 0075 1 William Norman read, the reason for a referendum 2 vote is during an election of CBC officers. So I 3 guess if we want to have a referendum vote at any 4 other time, we have to amend our constitution. 5 That's according to what he just said. So it's 6 right there if you want to read it. So we're 7 going to have to wait until next whenever, June or 8 July, to have the referendum vote, then we can 9 vote on that just like we done, what was it, 10 FlintCo, or what was it? That one we voted down 11 one time? That cheat, Wilmorite. I don't 12 remember that name. 13 MR. NELSON: Wilmorite. 14 MR. TOM NARCOMEY: Yeah, Wilmorite. 15 We voted that down. So we have to wait until next 16 whenever, June, to that referendum vote, according 17 to the constitution what Norman has brought up. 18 MR. BURGESS: All right. Roderick, 19 and Sandra, did you have a question? 20 MR. WHITEWOLF: No, I want to say 21 something. You know, you're kind of making digs 22 at us for having a $3 million cap, which I'm going 23 to tell you why we got that $3 million cap. 24 Because we go by experience. We experienced 25 Wauqua, we experienced Wallace, and now we're 0076 1 experiencing you. So I think we should drop that 2 cap maybe even lower. That's the truth. 3 MRS. GALLEGOS: Do you know who wrote 4 the resolution for that cap? Does anybody know? 5 MR. BURGESS: I don't. 6 MR. WHITEWOLF: I'll shake his hand. 7 MRS. GALLEGOS: Does anybody know? 8 MR. BURGESS: Who knows? 9 MRS. GALLEGOS: I know, because I 10 printed it up. I know who wrote that, that cap. 11 Keith did it. Keith and about six of us all got 12 together in a meeting trying to figure out how are 13 we going to hold these people back? What are we 14 going to do? How can we gain control? And so 15 that was the resolution that we came up with. 16 There's a lot of other restraints that we passed. 17 What about all those amendments that don't pass on 18 the ballot? Those line items that don't pass, 19 where is that money going to go to? Before, it 20 always went to a black hole. We came up with a 21 resolution to answer that. Right, Michael? 22 MR. BURGESS: Right, that was my 23 resolution. 24 MRS. GALLEGOS: And that resolution 25 was any line item that doesn't pass, that money 0077 1 goes to where we need it the most at that time, 2 capital improvement. Then what did they do? They 3 used it as a black hole anyway. Anything they 4 wanted, they got out of it. 5 MR. BURGESS: Now you got a line item 6 on the budget that wasn't supposed to be there. 7 MRS. GALLEGOS: So every time you put 8 stops in there trying to control whoever is in 9 power at the time, and if they want to, they can 10 circumvent it somehow. We don't have that here. 11 We have a lot of problems, but, you know, 12 everybody here doesn't have all the details. I 13 don't have all the details. My brother doesn't 14 tell me every detail. Everything that I find out, 15 I have to go around and talk to other people and 16 find out about. There's a lot of misdoing, 17 there's a lot of things that are going on that 18 aren't right. And when I look at this -- and you 19 may say I'm biased, but those gentlemen up there 20 are trying to do their best. That's how I look at 21 it. 22 I look at the overall picture. 23 There's people who have been put on suspension, 24 people who have been laid off. Some of those 25 people, they deserved what they got after you look 0078 1 at the whole situation. And I come here, people 2 say things, all right here, saying things about 3 him, saying things -- and I could sit here and I 4 could try to defend them, every one of them. They 5 can talk anything from his personal life to, you 6 know, he's living in sin. Well, how many of y'all 7 are out there living in sin? 8 MR. BURGESS: Okay, Sister. 9 MRS. GALLEGOS: All I'm saying is put 10 your personal feelings aside. Look at what's best 11 for the tribe. That's what we have to be here 12 for, what's best for the tribe. I don't always 13 agree with these people up here, but majority 14 rules. That's right? It's in the bottom line of 15 our constitution, majority rules. 16 MR. BURGESS: Mr. Nauni and then 17 Mrs. Goodin. 18 MR. NAUNI: Yeah, just to make my 19 point, I had to go get my constitution. Now, if 20 we refer to tribal council, Mr. Norman, like 21 you're talking about, Section 8, it says all 22 minutes of the tribal council meeting shall be 23 published in a manner to be determined by the 24 tribal council. So if you're talking about the 25 tribal council being every Comanche in the world, 0079 1 then we have to have every tribal member approve 2 these minutes. But it don't mean tribal council 3 at large, it means general council. So clearly 4 it's by interpretation. 5 MRS. GALLEGOS: It's a gray area. 6 MR. NAUNI: No, it's not a gray 7 area. 8 MRS. GALLEGOS: It's interpretation. 9 MR. NAUNI: Tribal council means 10 general council. It's been understood all these 11 years previously until this year. That's what I'm 12 saying. We're going to really mess up if we 13 continue to operate now a different direction. 14 Because this constitution doesn't mean every 15 Comanche in the world. It means talking about a 16 body, general council here. So if you want to 17 change it, change the constitution and then 18 proceed. But everybody's got to vote to want to 19 change it first. 20 MR. BURGESS: What section are you 21 reading, Section VIII, Article 8? 22 MS. WAHNEE: Article V, Section 8. 23 MRS. GALLEGOS: Are we all working 24 off the same constitution? Because for a while 25 there, there was about three or four copies 0080 1 floating around. 2 MS. WAHNEE: Section 8. 3 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: We need to take a 4 vote or not take a vote on this thing, guys. 5 MR. BURGESS: Well, hang on. We're 6 hearing a lot of comments here. Mrs. Goodin? 7 MRS. GOODIN: Okay. I wanted to make 8 two different statements. Mr. Codopony mentioned 9 about the casinos, and he said that was out of his 10 realm, that they had masking tape or whatever on 11 the floors. He said which would you rather go to, 12 a new place or one with the masking tape on 13 there. Well, I'd rather go to a new place, but -- 14 and he said this was out of his realm of 15 responsibility. If I let my house go that I had 16 to have masking tape taping up things, then heck, 17 yes, I'd like to move to a new house, but I can't 18 afford for a new house. So what we do, we repair 19 our house as it needs to be repaired. So I put 20 that back on the managers and maybe even the board 21 should have overseen that and not let our casinos 22 get into that condition. 23 The second thing is, this Resolution 24 91 is getting ready to come up to this board. And 25 until I hear each one of them vote, it may or may 0081 1 not even get out of this room today. So that's 2 what I'm waiting for. Because we voted for these 3 people and voted for them to do the right thing. 4 And by this vote, we're going to see how it's 5 going to come out today. 6 MR. NARCOMEY: Mr. Chairman, I also 7 need to make a statement before Barbara says 8 something. This is my feel about everything here 9 on this resolution, plus the Red River expansion. 10 I'm not for it. I'm not for this board to borrow 11 40 million. There's got to be another plan. 12 There's got to be another plan. The Comanches are 13 good at keeping a board on. This board could be 14 going along and the profits will be going down and 15 down. What do we do? Reelect them. Why? Hell, 16 I don't know. Me, I wouldn't. 17 Las Vegas, if you go 90 days when 18 you're going down, they get rid of you, bring in 19 some new people that can make the correct change, 20 the right changes. Here, we're keeping the old 21 ones on. It won't cost nothing to change the 22 boards, but here if you change this, it's going to 23 cost 40 million. There's got to be a better 24 plan. I would say -- I don't know exactly what 25 that plan is going to be, but there's other 0082 1 vendors out there that want to get in with the 2 tribe to pay -- just like Wilmorite. They was 3 going to buy the land, buy the machines, whatever, 4 even though we have to give them 20 percent. 5 That's what we're doing with these vendors right 6 now. What did they do? They didn't build 7 nothing. We had to build it. We already had the 8 land. 9 So there's got to be another plan. 10 You're giving up your -- it's got here partial 11 sovereignty. You're giving up tribal 12 sovereignty. What's partial sovereignty? You 13 know, people giving up their sovereignty. I don't 14 think there's any difference, you're still giving 15 it up. What's going to happen if we borrow 40 16 million -- let's just say we borrow 40 million, 17 but we still got to pay back 50, 55 million. We 18 pass this thing here. Next year they legalize 19 gambling in Texas. There we go, we borrow that 40 20 million, .there they are, they got gambling in 21 Texas now. Our lawyers -- I remember our lawyers 22 said, well, that's more reason to build a new 23 casino, because it will be more attractive. I'm 24 not saying they're always wrong, but I'm saying I 25 don't agree with them. 0083 1 Then what's going to happen if we 2 don't pay back this 40 million? Somewhere, I 3 can't remember, last month or so someone said, 4 well, the bank, if we can't make our payments to 5 the bank, well, what are they going to do? They 6 can't operate a casino. So what they'll do is 7 they'll -- this is what the board told us. 8 They'll probably let the Comanches go ahead and 9 extend it out and get some money back, but not 10 that full payment. The bank ain't going to do 11 that. Hell, when you get out a loan or borrow 12 money on a home or whatever, automobile, what do 13 they do if you don't make your payments? They 14 come get your vehicle and foreclose on your 15 house. That's what they're going to do with this 16 casino here. And, see, you're putting up all four 17 casinos as collateral, the two smallest ones and 18 two big ones. That's 40 million. And the bank 19 will foreclose on it and sell it. Then where's 20 everybody going to be? 21 He just got through saying you can't 22 sell it. You're giving up your sovereignty, 23 that's what you're doing. 24 MR. TIPPECONNIE: They can't sell it. 25 He's raising some good questions here. 0084 1 MR. NARCOMEY: See, these guys don't 2 agree -- well, I don't know if they agree or not. 3 MR. TIPPECONNIE: I'm not saying I 4 agree or disagree. 5 MR. NARCOMEY: But I don't go along 6 with this and I think we ought to table it. I 7 make a motion to table it. 8 MR. TIPPECONNIE: I just want to 9 qualify something he said. You know, the banks 10 can't take the casinos, they can't do that. It's 11 on trust land. All those properties they put on 12 trust land will belong to the tribe. But what 13 they'll try to do is get their return if they give 14 us a loan. I can only speculate this, because I'm 15 not the bank that's going to be the lender. But 16 the lender wants to be sure to get their money. 17 So what they'll try to do, look at some of these 18 situations in Indian Country across the country. 19 They sit down with a respective tribe and attempt 20 to negotiate something to keep it operational so 21 they can get debt service or get paid off. So 22 they do do that. 23 Now, I think it's a big question that 24 all olf us have to really think about. They all 25 know here -- I have to say this: I'm very proud 0085 1 of the fact that the nation has no debt. I'm very 2 proud of that, and I promote that. I don't like 3 debt. And if you look at your personal life, if 4 you're in debt, wow, it's a problem. As quick as 5 you can, get out of it. Don't live in debt. 6 That's the worse thing you can do right now, 7 because the economy is scary. 8 Okay. The point about debt then, I 9 don't like debt. And I promoted that fact to each 10 of us. Is there another option, other than going 11 into debt? Now, anyway -- 12 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: I've got a question 13 for Clyde. Clyde, I would prefer to have a 14 straight out vote for this resolution today, 15 rather than table it. 16 MR. NARCOMEY: You mean straight out 17 vote of the CBC? 18 MR. WAHADOOAH: Because there's 19 really two questions here. One is for the project 20 itself, but this one is actually the procedure to 21 get the vote. 22 MR. TIPPECONNIE: It's a procedure. 23 MR. WAHADOOAH: I'm against the 24 procedure. 25 MR. TIPPECONNIE: It's a procedure. 0086 1 MR. BURGESS: Hang on. Mr. RedElk, 2 you have a question or a statement? 3 MR. REDELK: I have a statement. 4 People out here want to know what we feel about 5 it. Clyde had his day in court and now it's my 6 time. I have serious reservations, for many 7 reasons, on this project. One of the -- can you 8 hear me? 9 One of the reasons I have this 10 reservation is I have some reservations as to the 11 decisions that the gaming board have made in the 12 past that I didn't agree with. It was a business 13 decision that had me wondering. 14 Red River Casino, prior to the 15 renovation of Comanche Nation Casino, was 60 16 percent of our gaming revenue, 60 percent. And 17 the gaming board, for some reason, decided that 18 Comanche Nation Casino, which was less than 35 19 percent of our gaming dollars, needed to be first 20 on this renovation. Now, I'm amazed at that, that 21 we have 60 percent of our gaming dollar that's 22 sitting down there on Red River and we're not 23 going to renovate that first. Why wouldn't we? 24 Why didn't we, is my question. 25 As a small business man years back, 0087 1 if a wheat market was bad, I ran my cattle out on 2 my wheat and grazed it out because the money was 3 better in cattle. That, to me, is a bad business 4 decision on the gaming board's part. 5 Now, the economy, that's part of our 6 excuse for our gaming dollar going down. Yes, 7 it's affected everybody. I don't think that's 8 all. Karl touched on a lot of different things 9 that could impact our gaming dollar and our gaming 10 -- our casinos, our gaming board. So I guess, in 11 fact, what I'm saying is I really don't have 12 confidence in our gaming board. And like Clyde 13 said, in the real world, if our board of directors 14 are not producing, they would be gone. In the 15 Comanche world, we just keep them going. Does 16 that make good business sense? I don't think. 17 MR. BURGESS: Mr. Owens? 18 MR. OWENS: I agree with Clyde to 19 some sort. We have to look at -- I think the 20 board or the committee here has to look at the 21 vendors, approach the vendors on this money, not 22 have to borrow it. Is there a way for the vendors 23 to fund this renovation? 24 MR. NORMAN: Yes, the proposal right 25 now does not designate where the money comes 0088 1 from. It doesn't identify that it's going to be 2 lenders, you know, banks, or it's going to be from 3 bonds, or it's going to be from a vendor. It 4 could be one or a combination of those who are 5 going to be competing to participate with the 6 nation in that. But what you need to understand 7 is whether it is a vendor or a bank, they are 8 going to ask for a waiver of sovereign immunity, 9 and the waiver they're going to ask for is going 10 to exceed $3 million. So for there to be any 11 discussion about that moving forward, the business 12 committee and the gaming board needs the authority 13 of the people to do that. And so that's what this 14 is about. 15 With respect to -- a little bit of 16 historical information about the renovation at 17 Lawton: There was essentially a recommendation 18 from the business committee to the gaming board to 19 pursue the Lawton project first. It being the 20 flagship and in town and the most relevant to 21 Comanche tribal members, it was thought that that 22 was the one that should be pursued first. In 23 addition to that, because the amount of money in 24 order to undertake the renovation was much less 25 than what would be required for Red River, it 0089 1 could be done without a referendum. There would 2 not be the requirement to go and ask for waivers 3 of immunity above $3 million. So those were two 4 things that influenced that ahead of Red River. 5 MR. BURGESS: Mr. Tahkopfer, and then 6 we'll go for a motion. 7 MR. TAHKOPFER: This is a question 8 for Mr. Codopony over here. You're on the gaming 9 commission, Mr. Codopony, right? 10 MR. CODOPONY: Yes. 11 MR. TAHKOPFER: Have you ever -- has 12 the comission ever thought of raising the odds of 13 winning at any of these casinos where we could 14 lose the money there by bringing in more 15 customers? I realize you can't specify what you 16 pay, I realize that. But if they make a study of 17 that, they would probably see a close correlation 18 between what's paid out and what's taken in. That 19 way a decision could be made whether we could go 20 for this thing or not. Study that and see what 21 you could do. 22 MR. CODOPONY: Let me address this 23 from two ways: First of all, one of the -- and 24 I'm assuming something on your part, 25 Mr. Tahkopfer. From what I'm hearing, you're 0090 1 confusing the management responsibility of the 2 gaming board with the regulatory responsibility of 3 the commission, which I'm part of. 4 Now, the commission -- when the board 5 comes in, the board and the management say payouts 6 are going to be 80 percent, 20 percent, 90 7 percent, whatever that amount is. They set that. 8 All we do as a commission is we go in and we 9 verify that the software of the machine is 10 actually paying out what they said that's going to 11 be. So we don't actually set those amounts. 12 So when we look at that, how that 13 money is generated, we just make sure that the 14 board -- and I say the board, the management of 15 the facilities say this is what the machine's 16 going to pay, this is what we bought from the 17 vendor, the vendor said it's going to be 90 18 percent payout. The commission staff goes in, 19 they plug in their test equipment and they verify 20 that that computer chip is actually going to pay 21 out that amount. And then through the play, they 22 monitor that. But they actually set that amount. 23 And to make those financial 24 decisions, what you're talking about, actually 25 turning a profit, is actually a function of the 0091 1 management, which the management is under the 2 board. The commission just makes sure that it's a 3 fair game and that it complies with what they're 4 telling everybody. So we're sort of the traffic 5 cop on the whole thing. We just make sure that if 6 they say we're driving 55, we're driving 55. If 7 they say we're driving 75, we're driving 75. 8 MR. CODOPONY: One last piece of 9 opinion here. This is a way to finances without 10 going into debt. Mr. Whitewolf mentioned it 11 several times when he talks about it, and that's 12 to forego the per cap payment for about a three- 13 year period and you won't have any debt and can 14 finance it internally. 15 MR. BURGESS: Point of correction on 16 that. That came from the body, not the CBC. 17 Thomas, this is the last statement 18 and then I'm going to call for a vote here. 19 MR. TOM NARCOMEY: Since there's no 20 confidence or credibility that -- gaming board and 21 staff, they don't have no credibility, according 22 to most of the people, I think. That we need to 23 get that gaming ordinance and revise it. And if 24 we have to remove them or whatever, get qualified 25 people, people that know business as legal and 0092 1 background in there, people that will help make 2 changes. So we need to put that gaming board 3 that's on the next agenda item and then start 4 revising that thing and get good people in there. 5 You know, and changing the staff, if we need to do 6 that, too. But we really need that quick, if we 7 want to do something. 8 MR. BURGESS: Okay. All right, 9 Thomas. Thank you. 10 We're going to go with Mr. Narcomey 11 here, he's get a motion on the floor. We went 12 into a lot of discussion. Mr. RedElk had his 13 expression. 14 Mr. Narcomey, would you read your 15 motion again or restate it? 16 MR. NARCOMEY: We need to vote on 17 this Resolution Number 91-10 that we've been 18 talking about the last 45 minutes. 19 MR. BURGESS: Well, you made a motion 20 to table. 21 MR. NARCOMEY: I'll recall that. 22 MR. BURGESS: You want to amend it? 23 MR. TIPPECONNIE: You want to table 24 it? 25 MR. NARCOMEY: No, I don't want to 0093 1 table it. I want to call for the question and 2 vote on this resolution. 3 MR. BURGESS: So we have a motion by 4 Mr. Narcomey to call for a vote. And then 5 Mr. Narcomey's made his motion to -- he's calling 6 for a vote, yes or no, on Resolution Number 7 91-10. Second? 8 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Second. 9 MR. BURGESS: Second by Mr. Mark 10 Wauahdooah. 11 MR. TIPPECONNIE: I call for the 12 question. 13 MR. BURGESS: Call for the question 14 by Mr. Tippeconnie here. All those in favor 15 signify by saying "aye." 16 (Aye.) 17 MR. BURGESS: This is the vote to not 18 approve it. 19 MR. TIPPECONNIE: This is the vote to 20 not approve it? That's your motion? 21 MR. BURGESS: Not to approve or are 22 you voting to -- 23 MR. TIPPECONNIE: How are you voting? 24 MR. NARCOMEY: I vote no on this 25 resolution. 0094 1 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Then you want to 2 say no, not aye. 3 MR. NARCOMEY: Excuse me. 4 MR. BURGESS: All those who wish to 5 approve Resolution Number 91-10, vote "aye." 6 (Aye.) 7 MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, say 8 "nay." 9 MR. REDELK: Nay. 10 MR. WAHADOOAH: Nay. 11 MR. NARCOMEY: Nay. 12 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Let me just make a 13 comment. I'm not necessarily against the project, 14 I just don't like the procedure. 15 MR. BURGESS: Sir, you already 16 voted. No qualifiers. Ehhh. Thank you. 17 Well, that means we'll go back to the 18 drawing board. I think we heard a lot of good 19 discussion on options. Let me say that this body, 20 the CBC again, has never said anything about 21 withholding per cap to do the redevelopment, but 22 I'll give you history on the Delaware Nation. 23 How many of you have gone to Gold 24 River in the last three years, Gold River Casino? 25 The people there, while they're a smaller body, 0095 1 voted not to accept the per cap, and that allowed 2 them to build their new facility. Now, granted 3 it's a lot smaller than ours, smaller numbers of 4 people, smaller per cap. But they voted not to 5 take per cap for two years so they could pay for 6 that renovation. Now that's up to the body. 7 Y'all talk about this however you want to. It 8 doesn't matter to me. 9 MR. WHITEWOLF: Mr. Chairman, I think 10 that's a good idea. I say those people that want 11 to give up their per cap, you ought to let them. 12 Let them put their money where their mouth is. 13 Make everyone get up and ask them if they want to 14 give up their per cap for 10 years and then we'll 15 just see - 16 MR. BURGESS: Mr. Whitewolf, I would 17 like to appoint you to head that committee. 18 MR. WHITEWOLF: I would, I'd like 19 that. 20 MR. BURGESS: It doesn't come from 21 this body. If you would like to write an article 22 and put it in our paper and make the suggestion -- 23 Now, I will say this. We have some tribal members 24 who do not live here who send their per cap check 25 back. There's a few, maybe six -- Roderick, I'm 0096 1 giving you the heads up here. There's four, five, 2 six people that don't accept their per cap check 3 at all. 4 MR. WHITEWOLF: You know what, I 5 commend them. 6 MR. BURGESS: And it stays in there, 7 and they wanted us to take it and use it for 8 something else for the people. So we asked those 9 people to turn around and we established a 10 501(c)3. They can donate it to the 501(c)3, and 11 they get a tax write-off. 12 MR. WHITEWOLF: I appreciate those 13 people, but I'm not one of them. 14 MR. BURGESS: He's on record saying 15 he's not approving this per cap for the 16 development. Thank you for being honest, sir. 17 MS. ATTOCKNIE: Short of making this 18 committee headed by Mr. Whitewolf, but if it came 19 to a decision by our tribal people, then there 20 would have to be a general council called. And 21 then at that general council is whatever the vote 22 taken there would be. And it could be to put that 23 on a ballot for the general public. 24 MR. TIPPECONNIE: It'd have to go to 25 referendum. 0097 1 MR. WHITEWOLF: It doesn't have to 2 be. It's just a letter of agreement. 3 MR. BURGESS: Well, I don't know 4 now. We have to have a legal document at the bank 5 that tribal council approved it. 6 MR. ATTOCKNIE: That's what would 7 have to be done. If Roderick wants to head up a 8 committee to get opinions or to get a horse moving 9 to people to give up their per cap for two or 10 three years or whatever, then you know, vote. 11 MR. WHITEWOLF: But I don't work for 12 free. 13 MR. ATTOCKNIE: You don't work for 14 free? 15 MR. WHITEWOLF: I don't work for 16 free. 17 MR. ATTOCKNIE: Then somebody else 18 needs to volunteer their time. 19 MR. BURGESS: All right. We're 20 moving onto Resolution 92-10. This is what we 21 needed from the banks, is it, Bob? 22 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yes. 23 MR. BURGESS: We have to approve -- 24 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Comanche Nation 25 beneficiaries. 0098 1 MR. BURGESS: This is for the 2 administration of the per cap for those 3 individuals who need a beneficiary statement left 4 over. We need to have this document approved and 5 signed so those beneficiaries to someone who's 6 deceased can receive those per caps in their 7 name. 8 Does this involve just per cap or 9 others. 10 MS. WAHNEE: Per cap and elder 11 payment. 12 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Under the Revenue 13 Allocation Plan. 14 MS. WAHNEE: It's a beneficiary 15 designation form that's going to be sent out with 16 the pre-mailing and the regular mailing that you 17 can designate upon your death who your residual 18 funds will go to in the event of your death. 19 MR. TIPPECONNIE: So it will be a 20 pre-action form? 21 MS. WAHNEE: Yes. 22 MR. BURGESS: Okay. CBC, everybody 23 understand that? Okay. We need a motion to 24 approve. 25 MR. TIPPECONNIE: I make a motion. 0099 1 MR. NARCOMEY: I second it. 2 MR. BURGESS: Motion by 3 Mr. Tippeconnie and a second by Mr. Clyde 4 Narcomey. Call for the question on this 5 Resolution 92-10. 6 All those in favor signify by saying 7 "aye." 8 (Aye.) 9 MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, say 10 "nay." All those abstain? 11 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Abstain. 12 MR. BURGESS: One abstentions, two 13 abstentions here. 14 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: What was the vote? 15 MR. BURGESS: 3, 0, 2. 16 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Now it's the next 17 one, the one I just gave you. 18 MR. BURGESS: We're moving onto Item 19 Number 11, Resolution Number 93-10. In 20 discussions with both sides of the forces, and the 21 force be with us, we're dealing with United States 22 Army, Fort Sill, basically. This is to -- I'm 23 going to go to the attorneys this time, because 24 they have the legal language to explain this in a 25 simple manner, I think, better than I. 0100 1 MR. NORMAN: This resolution would 2 authorize the dismissal of the litigation against 3 the United States with regard to Medicine Bluff. 4 In exchange for dismissal of the litigation, the 5 nation would receive $150,000 in attorneys fees 6 and receive their $25,000 bond back, which was 7 posted when the case was filed. 8 And separate from that, as part of 9 the dismissal, the Army -- and I understand that 10 they have delivered it today -- agreed to sign a 11 Memorandum of Agreement with the Comanche Nation 12 signed by the garrison commander, I believe, which 13 essentially says that they recognize the 14 importance of the site where the warehouse was 15 going to be built that we kept them from building, 16 and that they will make a note of that in their 17 planning documents for future planning purposes. 18 They also agree where funds are 19 available -- and they made an expression that they 20 believe the funds are available currently -- to 21 provide some sort of monument at the site 22 reflecting the importance of the site to the 23 Comanche Nation and other tribal members in the 24 community. And so we have a deadline on settling 25 for Monday. The Army has agreed and has executed 0101 1 the documents, so they would be awaiting 2 authorization from the CBC for you to execute 3 them. After that, we would dismiss the case. And 4 within two to six weeks, we would receive the 5 check from the Department of Treasury in the name 6 of the Comanche Nation. The litigation would be 7 dismissed, you'd receive your bond back, and you 8 would have this agreement moving forward with the 9 Army. 10 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Would it be 11 appropriate -- reading this, would it be 12 appropriate to cite that pending memo? 13 MR. BURGESS: You want to attach it 14 to this, you mean? 15 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yes, I think it's 16 important, because that gives some future 17 direction to the military as to what they're 18 thinking when they plan. 19 MR. NORMAN: It's actually in the 20 second to the last whereas clause. 21 MR. BURGESS: Yeah. "Whereas, the 22 Comanche Business Committee concurs with U.S. Army 23 officials that the agreement between the Comanche 24 Nation and the United States Army-Garrison, Fort 25 Sill, Oklahoma, regarding the Randolph Road site 0102 1 represents a fair and equitable resolution to the 2 dispute for all parties whereby the U.S. Army 3 agrees to refrain from further development of the 4 site and commits to direction of a marker on the 5 site, and, 6 "Whereas, a provision of the 7 agreement calls for Comanche Nation to dismiss its 8 suit against the United States. 9 "Now, therefore, be it resolved that 10 the Comanche Business Committee hereby approves of 11 the agreement and authorizes the chairman to 12 execute said agreement." 13 "Be it further resolved that the 14 Comanche Business Committee authorizes its 15 attorneys, Hobbs, Straus, Dean & Walker, LLP, to 16 dismiss litigation styled as Comanche Nation, et 17 al, versus United States, et al, Docket Number 18 CIV08..." "And obtain a refund of Comanche 19 Nation's bond in said case and/or otherwise 20 resolve said litigation." 21 MR. WHITEWOLF: How much was the 22 bond? 23 MR. BURGESS: 25,000. 24 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Would 150 25 cover their legal fees? 0103 1 MR. BURGESS: Basically, yes. 2 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Because, again, the 3 way you see this agreement states -- I don't fully 4 see it that way, but -- 5 MR. WHITEWOLF: What happens if we 6 don't? 7 MR. BURGESS: Don't what? 8 MR. WHITEWOLF: If y'all don't pass 9 that resolution? 10 MR. TIPPECONNIE: It has to continue 11 within the courts, saying that we're not maybe 12 willing to make, you know, this agreement on the 13 case. It dismisses the case. 14 MR. WHITEWOLF: Why do we want to 15 dismiss it? I thought we wanted to set the Army 16 straight to begin with? 17 MR. TIPPECONNIE: They're agreeing to 18 not do things on the site. I'm just asking these 19 questions about it. I want to see it very 20 formal -- which you're going to execute, you're 21 going to sign -- that they refrain from any future 22 actions there. 23 MR. BURGESS: That's in their 24 planning documents. They have agreed to do that 25 within their planning documents that they have for 0104 1 the next 10 or 15 years. 2 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: I'm endorsing this, 3 Mr. Chairman. It's not the perfect plan, but we 4 have blackened the eye of the Army by erecting 5 that marker out there that says we won a victory 6 in the year 2010. If you know the mind set 7 culture of the West Point mind set, once they get 8 a black eye, they don't want a second black eye. 9 But I will endorse this. 10 MR. BURGESS: Yes, Roland? 11 MR. MASON: I'd like to hear, you 12 know, Mr. Tippeconnie, you said you wouldn't 13 support this -- 14 MR. TIPPECONNIE: No, I support it, 15 it's just that I want this agreement which follows 16 this or accompanies this, this MOA that he signs, 17 where they say -- I want it stated in a document 18 clearly here that they will refrain in that 19 docket. That's what you're saying it says. 20 MR. NORMAN: I'm following what your 21 concern is. 22 MR. TIPPECONNIE: See, they're going 23 to have a subsequent MOA. That's going to 24 accompany this, it's attached to this? That's the 25 point I'm making. I don't have that. 0105 1 MR. BURSON: I handed it to you in a 2 folder today. 3 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Oh, in a folder? 4 Excuse me, excuse me. 5 MR. NARCOMEY: So here it's got 6 comments to register a marker on site. When they 7 put that marker there, does that mean from now 8 until here on they can't remove that marker and 9 build on that site? How does that work? 10 MR. NORMAN: It's not a guarantee 11 that they will never build anything there, but 12 what it does is place requirements in their path 13 to building there in the future and requires them 14 to come to you. 15 What happened the first time around 16 was they didn't follow federal law, which required 17 you to be involved with them in the planning for 18 anything that would take place at the site that is 19 sensitive to you. So what they've essentially 20 agreed at this point, is for the future they will 21 adhere to that, and they will make clear in their 22 documents the sensitive nature of the site to 23 Comanche Nation. They will highlight that with 24 respect to a marker and perhaps turn out. All 25 things from this point forward, you all are going 0106 1 to have to sit down and talk to the Army and work 2 out the details of. 3 MR. NARCOMEY: So if they try to 4 build there again, will they have to come through 5 the Comanche Tribe? 6 MR. NORMAN: That's correct. 7 MR. TIPPECONNIE: And they have to 8 follow federal law. You know, federal law stands, 9 too, that they have to comply with it. So there's 10 more than just this, there's law that they have to 11 live up to. They can't violate the law. And in 12 some cases, we have said to them -- we have done 13 that. That's why we took them to court. 14 So I think -- I just -- I know it 15 cites in here that the agreement -- we authorize 16 the chair to execute the agreement, but I just 17 want to be sure that it's clear that the agreement 18 is executed or that we conform to that in the 19 resolution. That's all I'm saying. 20 MR. WHITEWOLF: Well, if you pass 21 this resolution, then nothing's been done. I 22 mean, they don't have to, the Army. 23 MR. TIPPECONNIE: The garrison 24 commander has already signed the agreement. 25 MR. WHITEWOLF: Yeah, but he's going 0107 1 to be gone in three months. 2 MR. TIPPECONNIE: He's going to be 3 gone, but the agreement is between the nation and 4 the garrison, not the persons. They just sign for 5 the entities. 6 MR. WHITEWOLF: Did we pay the 7 lawyers any money during this time for this work? 8 If we did, then we need to be reimbursed for that, 9 because that would be double dipping. 10 MR. BURGESS: That's the agreement. 11 They would reimburse us the $150,000. 12 MR. NORMAN: The check for this would 13 be made out to the Comanche Nation. We're not 14 receiving any of these funds. 15 MR. BURGESS: Yes, Thomas? 16 MR. TOM NARCOMEY: What's the 17 difference between a permanent injunction and an 18 Army memorandum? 19 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Probably several 20 years. 21 MR. BURGESS: We are in the process 22 of an MOU with them for a 10-year period for a 23 consultation period under the law. So when we 24 sign that MOU with them, we have 10 years that 25 they have to continuously follow the law, all 0108 1 federal law, and then the MOU can negotiate or 2 inform us of what they would plan to do if they 3 plan to do anything. 4 MR. TOM NARCOMEY: So after 10 years, 5 we can file an injunction if they don't do 6 whatever? 7 MR. BURGESS: No, if they don't 8 follow the law, we can go back and file an 9 injunction on activity. 10 MR. NORMAN: Let me clarify. When I 11 say dismissal of the case, it's not a permanent 12 dismissal. It's called a dismissal without 13 prejudice, meaning a dismissal without prejudice 14 to us refiling the case if they do something 15 contrary to what we've agreed to. So we've agreed 16 at this point that we've gotten to a point where 17 they understand the importance of the site and 18 they're not planning on building anything there. 19 And if that changes, then we can go back and 20 refile. 21 MR. MASON: So there's really no 22 guarantee that somewhere in the future if they 23 decide to build on that site, then this whole 24 process regenerates? In other words, it makes us 25 aware, where the first time we weren't even asked 0109 1 to come to the table? Is that what you're saying? 2 MR. NORMAN: It definitely makes us a 3 player. We can't and are not going to guarantee 4 that the Army will follow the rules. But if they 5 don't follow the rules -- 6 MR. MASON: Here's what I started to 7 say: Following that language, we might have to go 8 back to our forefathers and say as long as the 9 grass grows green and the rivers flow. Of course, 10 that don't mean too much, because they broke that, 11 too. 12 MR. BURGESS: Yes, Thomas? 13 MR. TOM NARCOMEY: On that 14 embodiment, we need to write what's on there, our 15 history, not the Army's. We need to write what we 16 want on there. 17 MR. BURGESS: That's in the 18 agreement, that they would sit down and we would 19 discuss the marker, even the size of the parking 20 lot. 21 MR. TOM NARCOMEY: Because if we 22 don't decide, they will say whatever. 23 MR. BURGESS: That's in here that 24 they sit down with us and together we work that 25 out. 0110 1 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Mr. Chairman, I make 2 a motion that we accept this resolution as -- if 3 Mr. Tippeconnie wants to add something to it, but 4 I make a motion that we accept this resolution. 5 MR. NARCOMEY: Second. 6 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Do you know what I 7 was adding, or do you have a comment? 8 MR. BURGESS: That's what you wanted 9 to add, was this? 10 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yes, I want to be 11 sure this -- 12 MR. BURGESS: And Clyde made a 13 second. 14 MR. NORMAN: I'm not sure I follow 15 what your concern is. 16 MR. TIPPECONNIE: I know we cite the 17 agreement and we're giving the chair approval of 18 this agreement. I just want to be sure -- see, we 19 say it agrees to refrain from further development 20 of the site and commits to the execution of the 21 marker on the site in the terms of the agreement. 22 Something like that, understanding of the 23 agreement. Follow me? 24 MR. NORMAN: You're concerned about 25 our characterization of the agreement? 0111 1 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yeah, yeah. 2 MR. NORMAN: You could take that 3 language out if you want to, because the agreement 4 speaks for itself. It's the agreement, you can 5 execute -- you can take that language out and have 6 it attached to the resolution. 7 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Or I could leave it 8 here. 9 MR. NORMAN: Either way. 10 MR. TIPPECONNIE: As attached as a 11 formal agreement. 12 MR. BURGESS: I was going to say, you 13 could add to the resolution as attached. Could we 14 do that? That way the whole agreement is right 15 behind the resolution when we file it. 16 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Are you okay with 17 the amendment to that? 18 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Yes. 19 MR. BURGESS: Yes, Mr. Tahkopfer? 20 MR. ATTOCKNIE: Why can't something 21 like a permanent injunction be added into there as 22 an interjection? Because you know at some time in 23 the future they're going to come back and try to 24 do something again as the Army expands. And you 25 know good and well that the Caucasian race has 0112 1 made promises to our people that they've never 2 kept. Except the fact that we'll make you one 3 promise, we'll take your lands, and they did. And 4 it will happen out here again if there's some type 5 of resolution. 6 MR. TIPPECONNIE: One thing, Karl, 7 that it says in the agreement, which is not in the 8 resolution, so we're adding that form. Anyway, in 9 the agreement it says there will be consultation. 10 Anytime they have any thoughts, they have to come 11 to the Comanche Nation. They can't proceed with 12 anything without coming to us. 13 MR. TAHKOPFER: Well, that doesn't 14 give you any injunction relief at all. 15 MR. TIPPECONNIE: It does. 16 MR. TAHKOPFER: If the government 17 wants to do it, they're going to do it. 18 MR. BURGESS: No, no, no. No, 19 they -- 20 MR. TAHKOPFER: They've done it in 21 the past. 22 MR. TIPPECONNIE: They have to 23 conform to some other -- they have to conform to 24 federal law, which this is a cultural site. This 25 is a site of significance to the people. You 0113 1 can't tamper with that. And there's federal law 2 that supports that. 3 MR. TAHKOPFER: Cite one treaty that 4 they didn't break. 5 MR. TIPPECONNIE: I know. 6 MR. BURGESS: Only those that they 7 didn't approve they didn't break. 8 MR. TIPPECONNIE: I know. We live 9 with that history, which is pretty bad. 10 MR. BURGESS: We have a motion and a 11 second. Gentlemen, we'll call for the vote. All 12 those in favor signify by saying "aye." 13 (Aye.) 14 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Who seconded it? 15 MR. BURGESS: Clyde seconded it. 16 Mark, you made the motion and Clyde seconded. 17 Three ayes. 18 All those opposed, say "nay." All 19 those abstain? Four ayes. 20 MR. TIPPECONNIE: There's four ayes. 21 MR. BURGESS: Motion passes. Y'all 22 need a cigarette break. 23 MS. ATTOCKNIE: Sir, there was 24 somebody something brought -- somebody asked me a 25 question. What is that, or can that, or what's 0114 1 going to happen to that area where those homes 2 were built out at Fort Sill where there's that 3 burial ground or that we have family? Is that 4 going to be another issue entirely? 5 MR. BURGESS: Separate issue. 6 MS. ATTOCKNIE: Are we doing anything 7 about that? 8 MR. BURGESS: We haven't filed a 9 lawsuit or anything. I wasn't aware of the 10 findings. I wasn't here, so somebody's got to 11 bring that forward. 12 MS. ATTOCKNIE: Does anybody have 13 those findings? 14 MR. BURGESS: EPA conducted the 15 review on that. EPA at the time, the NAGPRA 16 office at that time. That report and all that, I 17 haven't seen it. I wasn't here. 18 MR. TIPPECONNIE: I feel also, you 19 know, we've had two things underway. We've had 20 the matter on the cemetery adjacent to where we're 21 talking about. That matter we wanted to see 22 concluded. And I think we've come to a place of 23 conclusion on that. And we didn't want to get 24 some jeopardy to that activity, because it could 25 have been extended forever and ever in a boundary 0115 1 sense. Excuse me -- 2 MR. WAHNEE: Exactly. 3 MR. TIPPECONNIE: So given that 4 that's settled, I think it's a point of time where 5 Mr. Arterberry and others might bring some thought 6 to us on that. 7 MR. NARCOMEY: Mr. Chairman, are we 8 fixing to take a break? 9 MR. BURGESS: There's two statements 10 coming here. 11 MR. NARCOMEY: I've got one thing to 12 add. 13 MR. BURGESS: Mr. Wahnee, Wahnee 14 Clark? 15 MR. WAHNEE: No, I'm just agreeing 16 with Bob. 17 MR. BURGESS: Mr. Tahkopfer? 18 MR. TAHKOPFER: I have a quick 19 question on Mr. Roach here. On his property out 20 there, there was litigation there between the 21 Oklahoma Water Resources Board and the tribe 22 here. He'd like to know what has come of that, 23 because out at his place they've got a pipe 24 sticking out of the ground. They've already 25 drilled the well, so they're probably getting 0116 1 ready to take that water. So we'd like to know 2 what's the answer to that going to be? 3 MR. BURGESS: We're not aware of 4 that. OWRB has told us until future, there's no 5 more meetings with them until they tell us when 6 they want to meet. But in the meantime, we sent a 7 letter onto the solicitor's office, the Department 8 of Interior, asked them to intervene, but they did 9 not attend that meeting yet and we have not heard 10 back from OWRB on a new date. 11 But in the meantime, our attorneys 12 can tell us if we have legal authority to take 13 that man to court. 14 MR. TAHKOPFER: Well, the thing is, 15 with the pipe being above ground like that, they 16 can put a pump on it at any time and pump at night 17 and disappear during the day and he would ever 18 know. 19 MR. BURGESS: Are they -- do they cap 20 it off? The pipe goes up like that? Is there 21 water flowing or is there pump heads or well heads 22 not on there or what? 23 MR. TAHKOPFER: Well, the pumper is 24 not on there at the top, but it can be put there 25 at any time. 0117 1 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Is it the new 2 well? See, he made application for a new well. 3 MR. TAHKOPFER: Well, it's not an old 4 well. 5 MR. TIPPECONNIE: There was a well in 6 place, but then he was asking for -- 7 MR. TAHKOPFER: This was the one that 8 was drilled that he put that application in to 9 sell the water for domestic use, agricultural use, 10 and irrigation. 11 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Well, the way I 12 understand it, you know, the nation made 13 statements to the governor to the Oklahoma Water 14 Resource Board on that situation on behalf of the 15 land owners. But in going to the solicitor who 16 represents the federal government in the roll of 17 trust responsibility, protection of these lands, 18 he did not want to intervene because he doesn't 19 want the Oklahoma Water Board to think they have 20 any authority when it comes to Indian water. 21 MR. TAHKOPFER: I understand that. 22 What I'm saying -- 23 MR. TIPPECONNIE: So they don't want 24 to come to that court and acknowledge that that 25 court has any standing. When we went to the 0118 1 hearing -- because I sat in there and listened -- 2 at that hearing, that's what the judge said, too, 3 preliminary. Mr. Burson was there. He said that 4 this court, there's no statute, Oklahoma statute, 5 that says Oklahoma Water Resource Board has any 6 authority when it comes to Indian water kind of 7 thing. So I think at some point, we may have to 8 go a different route. 9 MR. NORMAN: The last we understood 10 from the water resources board, we received 11 notification from them that a hearing that they 12 had scheduled had been put off, and that they 13 would notify the parties when it was rescheduled. 14 We have not received any notice that one has been 15 rescheduled. So to our knowledge, nothing new -- 16 there has been no grant of authority by the water 17 resources board. So we need to explore this with 18 them and find out what's going on. 19 MR. TIPPECONNIE: I think we need to 20 make some notice again. 21 MR. TAHKOPFER: Our concern is the 22 place is so remote, he could get out there and 23 pump some water at night and take the pump off 24 during the day and be gone and he'd never know 25 about it, because it's only 30 feet from his 0119 1 property line. 2 MR. TIPPECONNIE: One thing I feel we 3 should do -- this is my thinking. We can visit 4 here. I feel we should -- because the hearing is 5 pending, you know, they said they'd give us notice 6 when they have a complete hearing, that we should 7 give some notice that, you know, yet -- we can 8 word it somehow -- that we do not like what might 9 materialize. The application that Mr. White made 10 was to drill a well or use well water for 11 municipal and rural water district needs. Well, 12 when you talk that way, that's a lot of water. So 13 that's the objection we're making. And I think if 14 we can give some notice, follow up with a further 15 notice with the Oklahoma Water Resource Board, you 16 know, that they have no place here and they should 17 not jeopardize the interest or the water rights of 18 the adjacent land owners. We're going to have to 19 think about it. I think we're going to have to do 20 that. 21 MR. WHITEWOLF: I think it's 22 something to be put in federal court then. 23 MR. TIPPECONNIE: And we may have to 24 take it that way. 25 MR. BURGESS: Is there somebody who 0120 1 can be out there periodically to observe if 2 they're taking water? 3 MR. TAHKOPFER: Stay all night with 4 the mosquitos. 5 MR. BURGESS: Well, as a land owner 6 they should be watching. It's the land owner who 7 will initiate the action. We can't go and do 8 something, because you're asking us as a tribe to 9 watch out for wrongdoing, is what I'm saying. It 10 will take the land owners to initiate the action 11 and show proof of cause. 12 MR. TAHKOPFER: It's pretty remote 13 out there. 14 MR. BURGESS: Yes. 15 MR. TIPPECONNIE: We could give this 16 further notice. 17 MR. BURGESS: We can't keep someone 18 going out there checking on it. 19 MR. TIPPECONNIE: No, we can't. 20 That's their responsibility. 21 MR. BURGESS: That's the land 22 owner's. 23 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Okay, go on. 24 MR. NARCOMEY: I had one deal. 25 MR. BURGESS: Okay, real quick, 0121 1 Clyde. 2 MR. NARCOMEY: It seemed like three 3 months ago, April, that the people voted to up 4 their per cap so much more percent. Have we ever 5 sent any letters or anything up to the Bureau of 6 Indian Affairs to acknowledge we voted on it? 7 MR. BURGESS: No, remember we got 8 that budget? Everybody got a copy of the budget 9 changes, adjustments? 10 MR. NARCOMEY: So it's still out? 11 MR. BURGESS: Yeah, we can leave it 12 as is and send it to them. Everything was 13 reduced. I wanted to see if y'all wanted to agree 14 with that, send it forward. Because once we 15 present it, we'll be asking -- we're going to be 16 asked some questions already. I will talk with 17 the superintendent. 18 Yes, Ms. Attocknie? 19 MS. ATTOCKNIE: Can you make it a 20 part of the record that this year's per cap will 21 not be $5,000 a piece? Different places I've gone 22 to, there's been at least eight or 10 people that 23 said, well, we heard that the per cap this year's 24 going to be $5,000 a piece. And I keep telling 25 them, no way. But -- 0122 1 MR. BURGESS: The per cap will not be 2 $5,000. Projections, we'll be lucky that you can 3 take home, if you just look at it, what, 40 4 percent plus maybe a 20 percent increase, if that, 5 based on the economy? You're lucky if you take 6 home $1000, ladies and gentlemen, after taxes. 7 It's not that great of an increase, because you're 8 going to be paying taxes. 9 MS. ATTOCKNIE: I just want it to be 10 made a part of the record so that nobody else will 11 be thinking we're going to get $5,000. 12 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yes, 13 Mrs. Whitewolf? 14 MRS. WHITEWOLF: On the per cap part, 15 is it going to be like the gaming for the Red 16 Cross and all that -- not Red Cross. What do you 17 call that charity thing they're doing on the TV? 18 What is it? It's cancer or something? The casino 19 is promoting it, too. 20 MR. BURGESS: I'm not aware. What 21 are you asking? 22 MRS. WHITEWOLF: That charitable 23 thing that the casino and everybody else is 24 donating. 25 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Casino 0123 1 contributions? 2 MRS. WHITEWOLF: Yeah, yeah. 3 MR. BURGESS: Our charitable 4 contributions -- 5 MRS. WHITEWOLF: Our casino is doing 6 that, putting in. So why are we putting in stuff 7 like that, that we can't even put in ours? Why 8 are we taking money out of our casinos to help -- 9 am I saying that right? 10 MR. TIPPECONNIE: I understand what 11 you're saying. You're saying why does the casino 12 do it when we can't do it over here? 13 MRS. WHITEWOLF: Yeah, like we can't 14 do our own charitable -- we can't do our own 15 charitable thing. 16 MR. BURGESS: Actually, the casino is 17 not supposed to be doing charitable contributions 18 directly from the casino. That's why on our 19 budget, it's charitable contributions. And I 20 believe that -- if I can remember in the 12 months 21 I've been here, we have helped only, at the most, 22 five non-Indian, Non-Comanche activities. 23 MR. WHITEWOLF: Yes, but the City of 24 Lawton was very appreciative of that $100,000 the 25 tribe donated to them for the bike path. It was 0124 1 in the paper. 2 MR. TIPPECONNIE: That was quite a 3 few years ago, but it's true. 4 MRS. WHITEWOLF: Well, I'm just 5 asking why is that, you know. 6 MR. BURGESS: Well, it shouldn't be. 7 They're not supposed to be. It has to come to us 8 and then we give it out. 9 MRS. WHITEWOLF: What's his name is 10 doing it. What's his name? 11 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Sharrod has to 12 be the one to give the okay on that. 13 MR. NARCOMEY: I tell you why they're 14 doing that, because we gave them -- the CBC 15 approved their budget. We gave them too much 16 money. If you look at the records, I'm the only 17 one that voted against that gaming budget. That's 18 how came they're doing it, we got too much money. 19 MR. BURGESS: What donation are you 20 referring to? Because until recently, they 21 weren't making any donations. Are they doing a 22 match play, are they doing a promotional play? 23 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: March of 24 Dimes. Isn't it March of Dimes or something like 25 that? Because the casino and some other -- 0125 1 MR. BURGESS: We're not aware if they 2 are. That's gaming board. We're not aware they 3 made that donation. 4 MR. TIPPECONNIE: They do do 5 promotionals and marketing. 6 MR. BURGESS: There's promotionals. 7 I'm not aware what you're referring to. I don't 8 watch normal TV, I guess. I don't have time. 9 Mr. Codopony? 10 MR. CODOPONY: There's been the 11 discussion among the commission as to what's 12 charitable. The comission uses that 13 responsibility wisely with the CBC. But there are 14 advertisements issued. If it's on TV, that's 15 advertisement. Because, again, there's always 16 that discussion back towards the commission. 17 Because we always have that discussion with the 18 board, that you're not to be doing charitable 19 contributions but you can do advertisement. So if 20 she saw it on TV, it was probably an 21 advertisement. 22 MR. BURGESS: Yes? 23 MRS. MATA: I went out there and I 24 asked the casino at Walters if they would help 25 with Shelby's powwow, and they said, no, it's just 0126 1 one person. But if there was three or four of 2 them, we'll help you in a minute. 3 MR. BURGESS: What do you mean? What 4 did they say about three or four? 5 MRS. MATA: That's what Gene RedElk 6 told me. 7 MR. BURGESS: They can buy 8 advertisements, but they can't make donations. 9 MRS. MATA: He said, no, we can 10 donate the help like they want -- a team came in 11 and asked if they could help. They bought them 12 all these uniforms and equipment. But when I 13 asked for Shelby, Gene said, "I can't, Phyllis." 14 He said, "Because that's only for one person. If 15 there was three, four of them, we'd do it in a 16 minute." That's what he told me the other day. 17 MR. BURGESS: Again, it depends how 18 they're going to label that. Is it advertisement 19 for themselves, that when this team goes out, do 20 they have their name on there or are they saying 21 they're making a donation? I think the attorneys 22 need to refer that to the board, because we 23 haven't allowed them to make donations. 24 This is a good time to break, ladies 25 and gentlemen, then we'll come back to new and old 0127 1 business. 2 (Break held.) 3 MR. BURGESS: Ladies and gentlemen, 4 welcome back. We're reconvening on the WIA 5 program. Mrs. Owens, is there something here that 6 we need to know more about on the WIA program, or 7 is it just that resolution we passed? 8 MR. OWENS: That's all. 9 MR. BURGESS: That's it? We're 10 moving into Item Number 2 under new and old 11 business. Thomas Narcomey? 12 MR. TOM NARCOMEY: I wanted to be on 13 the executive session. I talked with her and she 14 told me that it was on executive session. I 15 didn't want to be in the minutes. 16 MR. BURGESS: Now, don't accuse us of 17 having a secret meeting. He's requested executive 18 session. 19 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Go to the next one. 20 MR. BURGESS: The next one is Aunt 21 Gladys. 22 MS. NARCOMEY: I thought I was in 23 executive session. 24 MR. BURGESS: She wants to be in 25 executive session as well. 0128 1 MR. CLARK: Mike, could I have 2 permission to come to executive session? 3 MR. BURGESS: That would be 4 Ms. Narcomey's calling for that meeting. He's 5 asking to be in executive session with you, 6 Mr. Wahnee Clark. 7 MRS. NARCOMEY: Yes, and I'd like for 8 Tahkopfer to be in there, too. 9 MR. BURGESS: Karl Tahkopfer? If we 10 get to it today, because that adds three other 11 items to our executive session. Then we'll go to 12 Item Number 4, Stacy Sovo. Stacy Sovo on the 13 comic strip? 14 Comanche Nation Housing Authority: 15 This is reappointment of two applicants. What we 16 have, ladies and gentlemen, is a letter from 17 Comanche Nation Housing Authority. They reviewed 18 all applicants and there were two that have been 19 nominated for reappointment, actually. That is 20 Ms. Billie Kreger and Mrs. Clorandia Tsatoke. So 21 we're going to need a motion to concur with the 22 recommendation of the Comanche Nation Housing 23 Board of commissioners to reappoint these two 24 commissioners. That's what we did last time, was 25 it not, a motion? 0129 1 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yes. 2 MR. BURGESS: Gentlemen, we need a 3 motion. 4 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Mr. Chairman, I just 5 want to say I don't know anything about the 6 records of these two individuals, but they're my 7 friends, possibly kin folks. I'll just wait for 8 the CBC to see what they find. 9 MR. BURGESS: Mr. RedElk, do you have 10 an opinion? 11 MR. REDELK: They sound good to me. 12 I move that we reappoint them. 13 MR. NARCOMEY: Second. 14 MR. BURGESS: Motion made by 15 Mr. Tippeconnie to approve -- 16 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Mr. RedElk made 17 that motion. Narcomey seconded. 18 MR. BURGESS: Motion made by 19 Mr. RedElk, excuse me, to approve nominees. A 20 second by Mr. Narcomey. All those in favor 21 signify by saying "aye." 22 (Aye.) 23 MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same 24 sign. All those abstain, same sign. The ayes 25 have it. 0130 1 MRS. GALLEGOS: So the resolution is 2 -- read the resolution. 3 MR. BURGESS: No, it's a motion to 4 reappoint them. 5 MRS. GALLEGOS: Oh, okay. 6 MR. BURGESS: Motion to reappoint 7 made by Ron and seconded by Clyde, and the vote 8 was affirmative. 9 MRS. HALL: Who's in the Cache area? 10 MR. BURGESS: That's Billie Kreger. 11 MS. HALL: Do they check on us? I've 12 never seen the lady. 13 MR. BURGESS: I don't know the job 14 description that they have over there. 15 MS. ATTOCKNIE: They're the housing 16 authority. 17 MR. BURGESS: They sit on the board, 18 so you have to take it over there. 19 MS. HALL: But how do they know who 20 lives in the community and what they need and what 21 their needs are? 22 MS. ATTOCKNIE: That's when you go to 23 the housing, the executive director. 24 MS. TONIPS: The commissioners' 25 responsibilities are to set policies and 0131 1 procedures. The executive director is to take 2 care of the business and to make sure those 3 policies are followed through, take care of the 4 day-to-day business. So if you have a complaint, 5 you know, you go see them. If, for some reason, 6 it doesn't get followed through, then you can 7 request it to be on the agenda or come see one of 8 us. And if you call to the housing authority, 9 they'll get a message to me or whoever you would 10 like to speak with. 11 MS. HALL: But do they make visits to 12 see the needs of the people? 13 MS. TONIPS: We just set policies and 14 procedures. 15 MR. WHITEWOLF: Didn't Mr. Wahnee pay 16 off 56 findings with over $900,000 plus? 17 MR. BURGESS: I couldn't say that for 18 assurance. That's what he's told us. But 56 19 findings going all the way back to 2001. And 20 Mr. Yellow Wolf here has finalized housing plans, 21 questions or findings, if you want to call them 22 that, from 2001 to 2007, within -- how many months 23 has he been here? 24 MS. TONIPS: Since December. 25 MR. BURGESS: Since December, he's 0132 1 finalized all those outstanding questions or 2 findings under the Indian Housing Plan. However, 3 they are now faced with some questions on audits, 4 outstanding questions that were never answered. 5 He's having to go back and, I'm going to say, 6 reconstruct the record on these audit questions 7 and now he's working on those. 8 MR. WHITEWOLF: There's a motion to 9 reappoint those people that didn't do their jobs? 10 MR. BURGESS: These people were not 11 there during 2001 to 2007, other than one or two. 12 And it wasn't their job to answer audits, it was 13 their job to make sure the people were following 14 policy so they wouldn't get audits, bad audits. 15 MR. WHITEWOLF: So it was just the 16 director's fault? 17 MR. BURGESS: It was the staff's 18 fault and a lot of that was the former directors', 19 I guess. I don't know. I haven't seen the 20 audits, I just know they've got questions. 21 MS. TONIPS: Also, the annual 22 performance review. Mr. Yellow Wolf has those 23 caught up from 2001 to 2007, also. And Ms. Kreger 24 and Clorandia, they have only served two years. 25 They were finishing up two unexpired terms. 0133 1 MR. WHITEWOLF: Because I was curious 2 about the housing authority. The budget had close 3 to $800,000. What was that for? 4 MR. BURGESS: Sir, that's in keeping 5 with -- the history of the tribe's been doing that 6 since about 2003 or 2004. They've been 7 transferring money to the housing. People have 8 been approving it for them to help with housing 9 needs. I didn't bring my report with me, but 10 currently we have a budget that's been presented 11 to assist housing elderlies and new home 12 development with about $500,000. 13 MR. WHITEWOLF: Don't we have a HIP 14 program? 15 MR. BURGESS: We have a HIP program 16 and those homes are not under the authority of the 17 housing. Only homes on the inventory of housing, 18 which are HUD funded, do they receive anything for 19 the homes that -- the money that we transferred 20 over has been going on since 2005 or '06, which is 21 to help them now. They were in dire straits 22 then. I have to assume they were in dire straits. 23 I wasn't here for a couple of years. But that 24 money is supposed to go towards helping now 25 elderlies who are not on the housing inventory, 0134 1 and they've been doing that, as well as other 2 Indians they can help, other Comanche members they 3 can help whose homes are not on the housing 4 inventory. And that's their plan currently, as 5 well as new home construction. 6 HIP program, while we give funding to 7 them, their guidance is for remodel, repair, 8 rehabs, and if necessary, a total rebuild. That's 9 BIA plus tribal funds. The motion has passed, 10 people are appointed. 11 Now, Mr. RedElk, you had a concern. 12 You wanted to discuss law enforcement again? 13 MR. REDELK: Yes. As we left it last 14 month, it was tabled, and the chairman gave 15 William and Vernon a request to do something, find 16 out if -- what other tribal groups were doing with 17 their supervision of their police department, law 18 enforcement department. 19 This is a rundown of the 638 Funds. 20 You look down to law enforcement, and there was a 21 request of an amount of $325,833. The 638 office 22 allowed only $24,161 to be paid. The 638 office 23 said that our police, our law enforcement 24 department is out of compliance, that they're out 25 of compliance on the time turned in. I'm reading 0135 1 from the corrected action plan for the fiscal year 2 2009 audit report findings. 3 Finding 09-1: "ADP time card 4 approval. The tribal administrator and the human 5 resource department will establish procedures to 6 document the approval of employee time cards by 7 their respective supervisors. Additional 8 procedures will be developed by -- for a third 9 party to review and approve employee time when the 10 supervisor modifies an employee's hours." 11 So currently, we are out of 12 compliance with our 638 law enforcement. 13 MR. BURGESS: He's referring to the 14 whole department. Is that what you're referring 15 to? 16 MR. REDELK: Right, the time cards 17 that's turned into the 638 office is out of 18 compliance. And I know, Robert, how hard you've 19 been working on getting us off high risk, and here 20 we've got a department that's continually -- 21 MR. BURGESS: Can I see -- you quoted 22 a corrective action plan? 23 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yes, that's the 24 recent one. 25 MR. REDELK: That's our audit from 0136 1 2009. 2 MS. EMAHOOLA: Mr. RedElk, I have a 3 question while they're looking at those papers. 4 What is a 638? What does it mean -- 5 MR. REDELK: It's a self- 6 determination act. The government gives the tribe 7 funds to operate different programs. 8 MS. ATTOCKNIE: It's Public Law 9 93-638. 10 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Which says that we 11 can contract programs that the Bureau of Indian 12 Affairs is doing in our interest. So the 638, 13 when we call it that, that's a contracted 14 program. We take it as a contract -- previously, 15 before the law, the Bureau did it, the BIA did 16 it. But under that law, 93638, we can contract 17 those things in our interest, which is this, law 18 enforcement. 19 And under that contract, then, there 20 are things that we must comply with, like reports, 21 different things. And we have to be very 22 accountable for every expenditure. And the 23 contract states how you spend those things. So 24 then we have to live within those terms. 25 MR. REDELK: And what we're doing is 0137 1 not only violating the terms of the 638, we're 2 also violating or human resource policies and 3 procedures that was passed in September '09 and 4 amended in October of '09. We're in violation of 5 that. 6 MS. ATTOCKNIE: Where did you get 7 this information? 8 MR. REDELK: Anadarko. 9 MR. TIPPECONNIE: This is our audit. 10 MS. ATTOCKNIE: Okay, but I'm just 11 asking -- 12 MR. BURGESS: He's referring to our 13 audit, which was the ending fiscal year of 2009 -- 14 '08 to '09. And in there there was ADP time card 15 approval. I'll read it again: 16 "The tribal administrator and the 17 human resource department will establish 18 procedures to document the approval of employee 19 time cards by their respective supervisors." 20 All right. Yes, I signed off on this 21 audit. Somebody had to acknowledge we received it 22 and had the meeting, of course. It says, 23 "Additional procedures will be developed for a 24 third party to review and approve an employee's 25 time when a supervisor modifies an employee's 0138 1 hours." So you're questioning that we're out of 2 compliance on $324,000? 3 MR. REDELK: No, I'm not questioning 4 that we're out of compliance, I'm telling you that 5 we are per 638 office personnel. This is what 6 they told me. This is -- the information sheet 7 that I gave you is what they gave me. 8 MR. BURGESS: Well, that's why I 9 think this contract with Finley & Cook, who have 10 been conducting and coordinating all the 11 corrective action plans -- you didn't refer to 12 those, did you? Did you read those? Did you grab 13 those and see how we're keeping up with them? 14 MR. REDELK: I can research that and 15 look at that. 16 MR. BURGESS: Would you do further 17 research with Mr. Tippeconnie as opposed to going 18 independently so we're all aware of this until you 19 bring it to a meeting? 20 MR. REDELK: What was the reason for 21 tabling law enforcement issue? 22 MR. BURGESS: Well, right now you're 23 talking about the financials. 24 MR. REDELK: It was for further 25 study. Now, did anybody else do any further study 0139 1 on this? 2 MR. BURGESS: Well, further study 3 says our corrective actions plans are moving 4 forward all the way up to '07. All right? And 5 this is just now finishing up the '08-'09 year. 6 MR. REDELK: And in 2010 we're out of 7 compliance. 8 MR. BURGESS: Are we? 9 MR. REDELK: Yes, I'm telling you -- 10 MR. BURGESS: Then why are we getting 11 the funding? 12 MS. ATTOCKNIE: We're getting the 13 funding -- 14 MR. REDELK: $24,000 is what we got 15 from that. 16 MR. BURGESS: I've signed off on 17 documents receiving '09-'10 funding. If we were 18 out of compliance, we wouldn't be getting them. 19 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Let's look into it, 20 Ron, you and I. Let's look into it. I think it's 21 worthy of the comments he's making to look into 22 it. I'll look into it for us. 23 The one thing I think he mentions, 24 too, when we tabled it, we asked the TA and law 25 enforcement to seek other tribes who are 0140 1 approving, or who -- 2 MR. BURGESS: That's another 3 subject. 4 MR. TIPPECONNIE: That's another 5 subject. But it's relative to signatories, who 6 signs for these payments. 7 MR. NORMAN: We have a memo coming to 8 you on that. It has to be formalized. We did 9 some research and have some information -- 10 MR. TIPPECONNIE: That was the other 11 subject. 12 MR. BURGESS: Again, the first 13 sentence is the responsibility to correct it and 14 do it. 15 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Well, it concerns 16 me, so I want to sit down and look at this, and I 17 want to sit down with Ron and others, definitely. 18 MS. ATTOCKNIE: It should be sitting 19 do with everyone, not just Ron. 20 MR. TIPPECONNIE: No, I mean 21 initially, we're going to look at it. We'll bring 22 it to the CBC, but I want to see -- because we're 23 pushing hard to get all things in compliance. The 24 last I looked at it, we have very few things that 25 are non-compliant. 0141 1 MR. BURGESS: My question, Ron, is 2 did you discuss this with Finley & Cook? They're 3 doing the corrective action plans and working with 4 staff. 5 MR. TIPPECONNIE: And working with 6 Phyllis and others. 7 MR. REDELK: I've talked with 8 Phyllis. 9 MS. ATTOCKNIE: And Phyllis has said 10 that we're out of compliance with 638 law 11 enforcement? She hasn't notified anybody else but 12 you. 13 MR. REDELK: She didn't notify me. I 14 did research. That was part of the tabling of 15 this law enforcement issue, is that we were going 16 to study it. 17 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yeah. It's worthy 18 -- well, he looked into some things. So the thing 19 is, let's hold on this. Let's get together. I 20 want to visit with Phyllis, too. 21 MR. BURGESS: Phyllis Pack should 22 have been showing the corrective action plans 23 you've been sending to them. We're getting out 24 responses and answers to them and they're behind 25 three months. 0142 1 MR. REDELK: I'm sure if Phyllis Pack 2 had it, she would have shown it. 3 Oh, by the way, on the 638 contract, 4 the TA is listed as the supervisor of law 5 enforcement. 6 MR. TIPPECONNIE: See, that's one 7 point we had in the resolution, if you remember. 8 To be in compliance, in the contract, you 9 designate who the supervisors are and you have to 10 follow that contract. A lot of the contracts in 11 the past have always said if you have tribal 12 administrators under this tribal administrator, 13 they're contracts. So we have to look at this 14 one. Because there's that question, it's a 638 15 contract. And the tribal administrator is listed. 16 MR. BURGESS: That is, excuse me, a 17 part of administration. And it states in there 18 the tribal administrator and HR. They're 19 responsible for coordinating, conducting, and 20 reviewing the time cards, not the CBC. That's 21 part of the responsibility of the TA. 22 Yes, Susan? 23 MRS. WHITEWOLF: Tina said don't say 24 nothing. 25 MR. BURGESS: Ask your question. 0143 1 MRS. WHITEWOLF: Nothing. 2 MS. EMAHOOLA: My question is this, 3 then: I didn't know what a 638 was, and now I 4 know and I understand that. That was a service 5 that was provided to us, and we have the 6 opportunity or the option to fill the need -- we 7 can take that contract. And then we have to be in 8 compliance with that contract. We have to follow 9 their rules to receive that money to perform that 10 duty. And then in your paper, your papers, you're 11 reading -- and I keep hearing the keyword in 12 there, tribal administrator, will help us to be in 13 compliance -- supervise to help us be in 14 compliance. So the TA didn't do his job? 15 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: How can he? 16 He's not here. 17 MS. ATTOCKNIE: The TA's here. 18 MS. EMAHOOLA: I'm talking about the 19 title. The title of -- the responsibility. 20 MR. BURGESS: There's two things 21 here. The whole corrective action plan is 22 responding to these audit findings. He's found an 23 audit finding in '09 that was in place and ongoing 24 before that. I say before that. All the way back 25 to '04, possibly. All the time cards have no 0144 1 verification, handwritten, changed over when you 2 went to keeping time by hand and corrections. So 3 they went to an automated process. The automated 4 process says that the supervisor is to input that 5 time. And the supervisor can designate one person 6 to conduct all that time keeping. 7 In my office, it's Civa Hill, and she 8 inputs all the hours that I put in. Even though 9 I'm not an employee, she puts in all the hours I'm 10 on the job. And then somebody over in HR picks it 11 up, coordinates it, and sees that it's verified, 12 however that's verified. I don't know how it's 13 verified. That's what the TA and HR was supposed 14 to have that handled. That's one of the 15 corrective action findings we've been pushing to 16 get done. 17 Now, the problem is, one or two 18 people who knew ADP can make a mistake on a 19 keystroke and upset the whole apple cart. That's 20 why you have to have a third set of eyes to review 21 what they've done. We haven't had that third set 22 of eyes. That is, again, a function of HR and the 23 TA to set that up. We've been told by Finley & 24 Cook it needs to get done, as well as those who 25 are getting paid by three grants, multiple grant 0145 1 funding. They have to do a separate time sheet 2 per day, per hour at least once every quarter to 3 show how much time they put -- how much time and 4 effort they put towards doing Grant A, Grant B, or 5 Grant C. That hasn't been done in umpteen years, 6 and it still has not been put in place. That and 7 the audit finding, tribal administrator and HR. 8 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Recently we had the 9 supervisor sign off on that, but that's been a 10 correction. They're doing that. So some things 11 are in the process of trying to get it all 12 together. But on this one, I want to look into it 13 further myself on the law enforcement, because we 14 do have to stay with those contracts. We have to 15 abide with the terms of the contract. 16 MR. BURGESS: And saying under the 17 supervision, the TA doesn't mean that he has daily 18 guidance, it means that he's overseeing that 19 they're doing their paperwork, getting their paper 20 reports filed on time within budget, and make sure 21 they are following that guidance. That doesn't 22 mean he directs them on a daily basis what paper 23 to pick up, what paper to push. 24 MRS. GALLEGOS: And so will you be 25 tabling this motion or this topic? 0146 1 MR. REDELK: It's been tabled for 2 further study. 3 MR. TIPPECONNIE: It's been tabled 4 for further studies. Now, the attorneys say here 5 that they've gathered some information, so we need 6 to see that. But in the interim, maybe the next 7 time we convene, I want to be working with 8 whomever to look at this, too. Because the thing 9 is, we want to get all these things in 10 compliance. It doesn't matter who's not, 11 whatever, let's do it. Let's do it right. We had 12 all kinds of things and we're down to very few. 13 That's tremendous. We have done a good job. And 14 people don't see that. It's a lot of hard work. 15 MRS. GALLEGOS: It's a joint effort 16 from all the CBC working with the TA and the 17 employees. 18 MR. TIPPECONNIE: All the program 19 directors. It's not just me. 20 MR. BURGESS: When I walked in here 21 last July, I was asked to come to a meeting of 22 directors and support this effort on the 23 corrective action plan. Those corrective action 24 plans dated back to 2004 all the way up to 2009, 25 and there was over 55 items. Now we're down to 0147 1 two items for the years '05 and '06. In 12 2 months, we pushed that through. And coming back 3 to the audit findings like this, there are times 4 when the corrective action plan cleaned up the 5 audit questions and the Bureau didn't apply that 6 to the audit question. 7 So now they have to go back and 8 reassess what we showed them. That, hey, we 9 answered that audit question because we did the 10 corrective action plan. Now they're behind the 11 gun in that they're late. They haven't responded 12 to a lot of our corrective action plans and are 13 asking us, give us more time to respond to what 14 you've done so we can verify what you've done. So 15 we have Finley & Cook working with them and not 16 informing him, or he didn't ask them about Finley 17 & Cook's corrective action plan, and should have 18 used all of that. So we're not aware. We haven't 19 been told that we're out of compliance. They sent 20 us a contract for '09-'10 on the law enforcement 21 program. 22 MR. WHITEWOLF: How much money were 23 you over? 24 MR. TIPPECONNIE: We're not over. 25 It's just that there's balances there that we can 0148 1 draw down. If we stay in compliance, we get the 2 full package, the full dollar. If we're out of 3 compliance, they reserve it. We're still in high 4 risk. We're trying to get off of it. 5 MR. WHITEWOLF: I thought you said we 6 were out of high risk. 7 MR. TIPPECONNIE: We're pretty much. 8 We want off totally. We feel we are, and I think 9 we're being recognized of that. Because grants 10 are going through. Grants wouldn't go through if 11 we were fully high risk. But when we were back 12 fully into high risk, we had to use our own money 13 up front, and then we got reimbursed by the 14 Bureau. So some of the things where we were out 15 of compliance, we had to spend our money and then 16 we were reimbursed. 17 One thing, I might say this -- and 18 I'm not going to make excuses. The last time I 19 was up to see Phyllis Pack, you know, one thing at 20 the Bureau, they don't have a lot of people. We 21 might think they have a lot of people, but they 22 don't. Phyllis has boxes and boxes of our data. 23 She hasn't had time to look at it. But she's not 24 just working with us. They work with 26 tribes. 25 And some other tribes are in bad shape, so they 0149 1 have to go through all their records. 2 MR. BURGESS: Cheyenne-Arapaho just 3 came off high risk status of 13 years. 4 MR. TIPPECONNIE: And the Kiowas just 5 came off. 6 MR. BURGESS: And we're coming off 7 high risk status four years after being on there 8 at least. In a little over 12 months, we're 9 coming off high-risk status. 10 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yeah, we're coming 11 off pretty quick. 12 MR. REDELK: I'm through. 13 MR. BURGESS: Any more discussion? 14 Well, ladies and gentlemen, we've 15 come to that hour of the time. 16 MR. BURGESS: Okay. Susan, what do 17 you have? 18 MRS. WHITEWOLF: I want to know if 19 Economic Development, she has a store in Cyril -- 20 MR. BURGESS: Yes, they have a 21 Quick -- 22 MRS. WHITEWOLF: Quick Stop. 23 MR. BURGESS: What's it called? 24 Cyril Quick Stop. 25 MS. ATTOCKNIE: Gasoline Alley. 0150 1 MRS. WHITEWOLF: Anyway, I was there 2 the other day, and did you -- I was going to buy 3 it, but I have my receipt. Did you know that 4 she's selling water from the fair at .79 cents a 5 bottle? 6 MRS. GALLEGOS: Tribal water? 7 MRS. WHITEWOLF: Tribal water. I 8 should have brought the water but I brought my 9 receipt. And I do have -- somebody does have a 10 picture of it, but I didn't bring it. Anyway, I 11 can't believe that, .79 cents a bottle. Comanche 12 Nation Fair is what it reads on there big as ever, 13 .79 cents. I bought two bottles, but I drank them 14 up. 15 But why is it that she's selling 16 water for economic development? She has 31 cases 17 in the cooler because I saw it with my eyes. So, 18 Norman, can we sell tribal water? 19 MR. NORMAN: Not supposed to. 20 MRS. WHITEWOLF: Yeah, I didn't think 21 you can. She ain't no non-profit. 22 MRS. GALLEGOS: Did you disburse 23 water to that Gasoline Alley? 24 MRS. WHITEWOLF: Somebody did. It's 25 31 cases. 0151 1 MRS. GALLEGOS: Well, if it was the 2 fair, that was probably Delphine Nelson. 3 MR. NORMAN: Are the proceeds going 4 to the fair? That's the question that needs to be 5 asked. Is all the money that she's getting, is it 6 going back to the fair? 7 MRS. GALLEGOS: So you need to go to 8 economic development meeting and ask them all 9 those questions. 10 MRS. WHITEWOLF: And the next one is 11 the wall, which is big headlines, television, the 12 newspaper. Will we get our money back that we put 13 up? Can you answer that, anybody? 14 MR. BURGESS: We made a donation to 15 the fair for the wall, yes. We have to request 16 them to return the money. 17 MRS. WHITEWOLF: The guy that made 18 the presentation, because I was here, him and two 19 other directors. 20 MR. BURGESS: Mr. Morgan, Tom 21 Morgan? 22 MRS. WHITEWOLF: Well, Lanny was 23 here. Did he or did he not say it was going to 24 cost $13,000 to bring the wall. If each tribe 25 donated so much -- which Lanny did the 0152 1 calculation. 2 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: It was $998 3 per tribe. 4 MRS. WHITEWOLF: And now it's on the 5 news that it only cost $4,500 to bring it. 6 There's a gap here somewhere. What happened? 7 MR. WHITEWOLF: Overhead. 8 MRS. WHITEWOLF: Something. I don't 9 want to say cheated, I don't want to use that 10 word. But the person that did the presentation 11 did not bring it all out. You know what I'm 12 saying? Because on the paper and the news is 13 saying it wasn't set up right, it didn't have 14 security, and all these excuses. Well, when he 15 came, he didn't tell us it was going to be all 16 this and that and everything. So it never even 17 made it to the thing. It made it, but it didn't 18 even get taken off. 19 MR. BURGESS: Is everybody aware 20 about the claim of the moving wall, why it wasn't 21 displayed? 22 MR. NAUNI: They didn't think the 23 base would hold it. 24 MRS. GALLEGOS: It depends on who you 25 talk to. If you listen to the TV news programs, 0153 1 it says one thing, and then the people at expo are 2 saying another thing. But I do remember, I was at 3 that meeting where the gentleman said it was going 4 to be $13,000 to bring it in. And so the news 5 media said it was $2500 that the expo people could 6 get their refund back. There was a refund 7 procedure to get their $4500 back. So I caught 8 that, too. I was thinking why are they telling us 9 it cost 13 and then the news media is saying 10 4500. 11 Now, they had two fund raisers at our 12 building in Apache. They used the building for 13 free. They raised -- they're claiming they had to 14 raise $13,000. How much do you have to go? They 15 only had $4000 to go. So if it's 4500, the actual 16 price, well, they only had $500 that they 17 collected, because they were trying to raise 18 4000. But they're telling everybody it's 13,000. 19 So there is some discrepancy there that somebody 20 needs to check into. 21 MR. BURGESS: Ms. Emahoola? 22 MS. EMAHOOLA: Just a couple things. 23 It's on Channel 4 out of Oklahoma City, Channel 7 24 here in Lawton. The people that have the wall 25 didn't like the way it was being presented. I 0154 1 have to say on their behalf -- I don't know him, 2 but I am the wife of a veteran, I'm a child of a 3 veteran. In American society, that wall, the 4 Korean monument, all of that, those things are 5 equivalent to them as an eagle feather is to us. 6 And their complaint on the news was they didn't 7 like how it was presented. So be it, that's the 8 expo's responsibility. That is the controversy. 9 The people left because they did not like the way 10 it was being displayed. 11 Like I said, that is of great 12 importance to American society the way the eagle 13 feather is to Indian society. We don't want them 14 throwing it on ground, we don't want them doing 15 things, we want it handled a certain way. But so 16 be it, that's the expo's responsibility. But they 17 did come here to a meeting and they asked for 18 donations from all the tribes, it was presented to 19 us, and also to you, CBC, that if each tribe gave 20 roughly almost $1,000, somewhere in the 21 neighborhood of $998, it would cover bringing that 22 wall. Well, low and behold, the wall gets taken 23 away, yada, yada, yada. It comes on the news, and 24 it's 4500 to bring that wall, not 13,000. So 25 there is a large gap there. 0155 1 I know that we, the Comanches, gave 2 them money to move that wall. And on Channel 4 3 News out of Oklahoma City, they were contacted and 4 they will be refunded that $4,500. What I 5 certainly don't appreciate, and I think most 6 people in this room as Comanche members don't 7 appreciate, is you come here and you ask our tribe 8 for help, something of that importance such as our 9 veterans. We graciously do it. Did you lie to us 10 or did you not lie to us? If you did lie to us 11 and you asked for more than what it was, then you 12 scammed us and you give that money back. That's 13 what I have to say on that. 14 MR. BURGESS: All right. Thank you. 15 If there's no further discussion on that issue, 16 we're going to be moving forward on our agenda to 17 executive session. 18 (Executive session commenced at 19 1:47 p.m.) 20 21 22 * * * * * * 23 24 25 0156 1 R E P O R T E R 'S C E R T I F I C A T E 2 3 STATE OF OKLAHOMA ) ) 4 COUNTY OF OKLAHOMA ) 5 I, Kelly Stoabs, Certified Shorthand 6 Reporter for the State of Oklahoma, certify that 7 the above and foregoing meeting transcribed by me 8 is a true and correct transcript of the meeting; 9 that the meeting was held on August 7, 2010, in 10 the State of Oklahoma; that I am not an attorney 11 for nor a relative of any said parties, or 12 otherwise interested in the event of said action. 13 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set 14 hereunto set my hand and seal of office on this 15 the 30th day of August, 2010. 16 17 18 __________________________ 19 Kelly Stoabs Certified Shorthand Reporter 20 for the State of Oklahoma 21 22 23 24 25 0157 1 S E C R E T A R Y ' S C E R T I F I C A T E 2 3 I, Robert Tippeconnie, Secretary- 4 Treasurer of Comanche Nation Business Committee, 5 certify that the above is a true and correct 6 transcript of a meeting of CBC Members held at 7 10:18 a.m. on August 7, 2010, and that the meeting 8 was duly called and held in all respects in 9 accordance with the charters and bylaws of the 10 Comanche Nation and that a quorum was present. 11 I further certify that the votes and 12 resolutions of the CBC Members of Comanche Nation 13 at the meeting are operative and in full force and 14 effect and have not been annulled or modified by 15 any vote or resolution passed or adopted by the 16 CBC since that meeting. 17 18 19 Signed:_________________________ Date:____________ Robert Tippeconnie 20 Secretary-Treasurer 21 22 23 24 25