1 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS OF THE 8 COMANCHE NATION TAX COMMISSION MEETING 9 TAKEN APRIL 16, 2009, 9:10 A.M. 10 COMANCHE NATION BUSINESS CENTER 11 LAWTON, OKLAHOMA 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 __________________________________________________ REPORTED BY: KELLY STOABS, CSR 23 DODSON REPORTING & ASSOCIATES 435 NORTH WALKER, SUITE 102 24 OKLAHOMA CITY, OKLAHOMA 73102 (405) 235-1828 ~ (405) 235-1266 (FAX) 25 dcri@coxinet.net 2 1 APPEARANCES 2 TAX COMMISSIONERS: 3 Jim Patterson, Chairman Present 4 Edmond Mahseet, Vice-Chairman Present 5 LaNora Parker, Secretary/Treasurer Present 6 Wallace Coffey, Ex Officio Present 7 Lanny G. Asepermy, Member Present 8 Clyde Narcomey, Member Present 9 Robert Tippeconnie, Member Present 10 Darrell Kosechequetah, Member Present 11 Ron RedElk, Member Present 12 13 TAX OFFICE STAFF: 14 Raymond Nauni, Jr., Tax Administrator Present 15 Michael Mithlo, Oil & Gas Representative Present 16 17 LEGAL COUNSEL: 18 William Norman, James Burson Present Hobbs, Straus, Dean & Walker 19 20 21 * * * * * * 22 23 24 25 3 1 I N D E X O F P R O C E E D I N G S 2 PAGE 3 Meeting called to order at 9:10 a.m. 4 4 Roll call. 4 5 Invocation. 4 6 Mr. Asepermy reports Frankie Wadooah 5 passed away. 7 Mr. Nauni reports Phyllis Attocknie has been 6 8 hospitalized. 9 Motion passed to approve the minutes 9 of March 26, 2009. 10 Mr. Nauni summarizes March 2009 9 11 monthly report. 12 Norman Nauni/Geneva Navarro situation 16 discussed. 13 Mr. Norman gives update on other tribes' 38 14 tobacco compacts with the state. 9:00 15 Next meeting scheduled for May 28, 2009, 39 a.m. 16 Mr. Asepermy announces CIVA is sponsoring 40 17 Armed Forces Day banquet at Apache Community Center on Memorial Day, May 25, 2009, noon. 18 Mr. Asepermy announces CIVA having Memorial 40 11:00 19 Day ceremony at Court of Honor at complex, a.m. 20 Mr. Asepermy announces Tradition of the 40 21 Warriors will be available in one week. 22 Motion passed to adjourn. 41 23 Meeting adjourned at 9:52 a.m. 42 24 Reporter's Certificate. 43 25 Secretary/Treasurer's Certificate. 44 4 1 (Meeting called to order at 2 9:10 a.m.) 3 MR. PATTERSON: Please call the 4 meeting to order at 10 minutes after 9:00. I'll 5 call the roll. 6 Jim? Here. Eddie? 7 MR. MAHSEET: Here. 8 MR. PATTERSON: LaNora? 9 MS. PARKER: Here. 10 MR. PATTERSON: Wallace? Lanny? 11 MR. ASEPERMY: Here. 12 MR. PATTERSON: Clyde? 13 MR. NARCOMEY: Here. 14 MR. PATTERSON: Robert? 15 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Here. 16 MR. PATTERSON: Darrell? 17 MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: Here. 18 MR. PATTERSON: Ron? 19 MR. REDELK: Here. 20 MR. PATTERSON: We're all present. 21 We have a quorum. 22 La Nora, would you please lead us in 23 prayer? 24 MS. PARKER: (Invocation.) 25 MR. NAUNI: I just got a call a while 5 1 ago and they said that Frankie Wadooah passed 2 away, I guess this morning or something. He's in 3 Supply. And I didn't -- she's going to call me 4 back and tell me more about it later, but they 5 just heard that he passed away, so -- 6 MR. ASEPERMY: I got a call waiting 7 at the railroad that they'd taken him in this 8 morning, but I didn't know he passed. 9 MR. NAUNI: Yeah, just about a month 10 ago, I think, he went to the hospital, and they 11 said he had -- he was a diabetic and then they had 12 to put him on dialysis. I guess he didn't know he 13 was diabetic. 14 MR. ASEPERMY: His dialysis wasn't 15 working. 16 MR. REDELK: What I heard, his 17 kidneys and liver both failed. 18 MR. NAUNI: Is that what it was? 19 About two months ago he came to visit me and he 20 was talking and he just wasn't himself. I said, 21 "Are you okay, Frankie?" He was always laughing 22 and joking. He just didn't seem himself. 23 He said, "I haven't been feeling real 24 well." Man, I was surprised, because I think 25 he's, what, early 60s or something? 6 1 MR. NARCOMEY: Probably 61 or 62. I 2 noticed in the past year he hasn't -- he kind of 3 lost some weight. 4 MR. NAUNI: Yeah, he did. 5 MR. NARCOMEY: I didn't know he was 6 sick, though. 7 MR. NAUNI: I always remember what 8 Thomas Chibitty told me. He said, "You tell all 9 the guys to go get a checkup every six months." 10 He said, "That's what happened to me. If I would 11 have got a checkup every six months, the doctors 12 could have done something for me." It's important 13 to get that checkup, I tell you. Let's keep him 14 in prayers. 15 MR. ASEPERMY: You might want to tell 16 them about Phyllis, too. 17 MR. NAUNI: Oh, yeah, Phyllis 18 Attocknie called me up last week when the lights 19 went out. She was asking what was happening. I 20 said, "I don't know, it's this whole grid." I 21 said -- you know, hospital, Lawton High, 22 everything, we was all done. 23 And she said, "It's just dark in this 24 room I'm in." 25 I said, "Where are you at?" 7 1 She said, "I'm at the hospital." 2 I said, "What hospital?" 3 "Indian Hospital." 4 I said, "What are you doing there?" 5 She said, "I've been here for about 6 two weeks." 7 She got bit by a spider on her 8 stomach. And they kept telling her, "You better 9 go in. You better go." 10 She'd say, "No, no I'm okay, I'm 11 okay." 12 So they finally looked at it and they 13 made her go in. It was a fiddleback and all that 14 -- it just turned black, and it was just eating 15 the flesh and everything. So she went in and they 16 had to dig out, she said it was like a wash pan 17 full of flesh and blood and all of that other 18 stuff. She was being hospitalized. I don't know 19 if she's gotten out or not. 20 MR. MITHLO: She's home. 21 MR. NAUNI: Is she? 22 MR. MITHLO: Yeah. 23 MR. NAUNI: Man, I tell you. The 24 doctor told her she could have died if she 25 wouldn't have come in like she did. He said, "You 8 1 would have died," because it got into her blood. 2 Those fiddlebacks, man, they're bad. 3 I got bit by one on my arm that same 4 way it was. And I scratched it and it felt wet. 5 I looked and it was blood, and my wife said, "Look 6 at that." And it was just turning black, the skin 7 just turned black and it crusted. I went to the 8 hospital and they cut out a plug about that big 9 and about that wide and sent it off. Same thing, 10 yeah, it was a fiddleback. 11 Yeah, those are dangerous, very 12 dangerous. We got them here in this building, 13 too. 14 (Mr. Coffey enters meeting at 15 9:14 a.m.) 16 MR. NAUNI: So don't stick your hand 17 in no dark places or anything. That's where they 18 like to be. 19 MR. PATTERSON: Good morning, 20 Chairman. 21 MR. COFFEY: Good morning. 22 MR. ASEPERMY: I don't know if 23 Wallace knows about Frankie. 24 MR. COFFEY: Yeah. 25 MR. PATTERSON: First item on the 9 1 agenda is reading and approval of minutes of the 2 previous meeting, if you'd like to take a minute 3 to look at those. 4 MR. NAUNI: What time did you call 5 the meeting to order? 6 MR. PATTERSON: 9:10. 7 MR. NAUNI: 9:10. 8 MR. TIPPECONNIE: I make a motion to 9 approve the minutes. 10 MR. PATTERSON: We have a motion by 11 Mr. Tippeconnie to approve the minutes from the 12 previous meeting. 13 MR. ASEPERMY: Second. 14 MR. PATTERSON: Motion by Lanny to 15 second. Any further discussion on the minutes? 16 If not, all those in favor of approval of those 17 minutes signify by saying "aye." 18 (Aye.) 19 MR. PATTERSON: Any oppose? Any 20 abstentions? 21 MR. ASEPERMY: Off the record. 22 (Off-the-record discussion.) 23 MR. PATTERSON: Okay. Mr. Raymond? 24 MR. NAUNI: On our first page, the 25 summation page for March 2009, our expenditures 10 1 through March the 31st was $336,021.50, with our 2 monthly average expenditures of $56,004. The tax 3 and revenue collected for the same time period was 4 $1,667,328.21, giving us a monthly average of 5 $277,888. 6 Our tobacco collections were up about 7 152 percent with a total of $870,699.21. So that 8 was as of the last of March. And so it looks like 9 we're going to basically double what we did last 10 year of what our April collections and everything 11 are. So it did kind of level out, but it's not 12 really drastic. We're still above what we were 13 last year on that. 14 Smoke shops are -- you know, sales 15 are down and, you know, people are saying they 16 quit and so on. But they said there's -- they're 17 having a real run on this -- I can't remember what 18 he called it. It's the nicotine in a little pack 19 that you put in your mouth and it dissolves and 20 everything. They said that really does the trick 21 for wanting a cigarette, that nicotine. So he 22 said that in Anadarko, they've been having a lot 23 of people buying that. So apparently they're 24 trying to quit and -- but we'll still do well 25 above what we did last year. 11 1 We were hopefully going to be like 2 three times, but I think if we just double it, 3 we'll be doing well this year. 4 MR. TIPPECONNIE: So what was the 5 percent again up on tobacco? 6 MR. NAUNI: It was 52 percent now, 7 and I think the last one I looked at, it was 8 almost double, like 90 percent or something with 9 all the collections to date. 10 Okay. And then the oil and gas 11 collections is up like 11 percent. That's gone 12 down drastically. It's $267,093 from what we did 13 last year, but it's still holding real well, 14 comparatively. So we're still continuing on to 15 get some collections in. 16 And, basically, that's about it. Do 17 we have any questions or anything? 18 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Well, I don't know 19 what tobacco in the price sense means. 20 MR. NAUNI: They're just saying that 21 they're down. See, what happened last time was -- 22 whenever we had the tax increase, they were down 23 again. People were saying the same thing. But he 24 said about two or three months later, that they 25 start coming back, you know so it's that same old 12 1 thing. But it's not going to be really drastic, I 2 don't think. I haven't talked to everybody, but 3 that's -- you know, that's one that was told me. 4 J.J.'s in Anadarko was telling me about that. 5 But it's pretty hard for people to 6 quit that's been smoking a long time, and I think 7 that's what's happening now. Of course, they 8 already -- when I was in the schools, when I was 9 teaching, you know, before, when I was going to 10 school, man, practically all the kids smoked, you 11 know, especially the guys. But there's not that 12 much smoking going on at the school system, 13 because, well, it's against the law in the first 14 place. It's contraband on the campus. 15 But they keep saying they're trying 16 to stop the children smoking, and I don't think 17 that that's a problem. I think they're just 18 wanting to make it everybody, because of the 19 medical costs involved in it. 20 MR. ASEPERMY: I think I'm the only 21 one that smokes in this whole group here. 22 MR. NAUNI: Keep on smoking. 23 MR. ASEPERMY: Cigarettes are $37 a 24 carton at Fort Sill. I told Shelly to quit. 25 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Not you, but her? 13 1 MR. NAUNI: Maybe we ought to come up 2 with a Comanche brand of cigarettes and go down to 3 the creek and get grapevine and sell it. You and 4 me was the only ones that smoked grapevine. 5 MR. PATTERSON: No, I smoked 6 grapevine. 7 You get, I'm sure, a breakdown 8 anymore of taxes, revenues from our smoke shops as 9 opposed to tribally. Do you get that? 10 MR. NAUNI: Yeah, they give us the 11 gross amount that tobacco, and then the other 12 tobacco products from the Oklahoma -- State of 13 Oklahoma, they report it to us. And so we get 14 invoices from them, and then we match them up and 15 make sure that they're giving us the proper amount 16 and everything. 17 MR. PATTERSON: So you could still 18 tell us what our smoke shops are doing at each 19 casino? 20 MR. NAUNI: Right, right. That's 21 what I'm working on now, to try to get a 22 percentage in there. And I'm working on how much 23 tobacco -- overall the gross sales that we've 24 bought within the Comanche Nation and each 25 individual smoke shop. So we're working on that, 14 1 trying to get some statistics. And when I get 2 that, then I'll give you, you know, a breakdown on 3 since it started to where we're at and the 4 percentages and so on. 5 MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: It will be 6 interesting to see, because we know after that 7 compact, the money kind of shifted, our profit- 8 ability over here kind of goes down, but our tax 9 collection goes up. But to see -- I guess we're a 10 little early now, but to see later on where we're 11 at, you know. Are we still where we were before, 12 are we behind, are we up? 13 MR. NAUNI: It's down a little bit, 14 but not that much, as far as the sales go, and I 15 think it's too premature to really see. Because 16 like they're a month behind, so all the reports we 17 get is like a month behind. So we haven't really 18 seen the effect in April. We won't get that until 19 probably May or June to see what the orders were. 20 But on the profitability now, see, we 21 need to emphasize to the smoke shop that this is a 22 consumer tax, so they shouldn't be taking it out 23 of their profit, and I know they do it. Every 24 dollar, they should add five cents to it and so 25 on. But I don't know if they're doing that, 15 1 because it shouldn't have anything to do with 2 profitability, because all of our taxes are 3 consumer taxes. 4 MR. TIPPECONNIE: How do you review 5 that to see that? 6 MR. NAUNI: I ask Sharrod and them to 7 give me a report, and then on the smoke shops and 8 so on, and then I look at the amount of money and 9 purchases and everything and try to diagnose 10 what's happening there. 11 But from what I see people doing -- 12 every once in a while, we have someone go in and 13 buy cigarettes from one of our places to make sure 14 they're -- you know, everything's on the up and 15 up. And then we go check and make sure that they 16 have the proper stamps and so on. 17 But like I said, I don't see them 18 doing that. Maybe that new system they have, the 19 point of sale system, will give you reports on 20 that. See, like we have -- that's what we have 21 over there now. We're still adjusting everything 22 on it, but that's what should happen. Five 23 dollars in sales and just add that percentage onto 24 it and it won't cut into our profitability. But 25 that's -- 16 1 MR. TIPPECONNIE: But it's something 2 kind of to watch, isn't it? 3 MR. PATTERSON: I think we're losing 4 some business over at CNC Smoke Shop to Bowen out 5 here on the highway. I think Chas will tell you 6 that sales are dropping some over there, and I 7 think you can almost trace it back to when Bowen 8 reopened the shop. It's so much more convenient. 9 If the price is about the same, the average buyer 10 is going to pull in there. Because sometimes that 11 traffic over there going into the casino, we all 12 know what it is. It's really incumbent on us to 13 get a ramp down there off Lee Boulevard coming in 14 there. 15 MR. TIPPECONNIE: It really is, or 16 access. 17 MR. PATTERSON: Yeah. And I went 18 down there and stopped and looked and walked 19 around that other day. And I could take a 20 bulldozer and in a day's time have a road built, 21 but that's not how the state operates. 22 MR. NARCOMEY: Does Norman Nauni 23 still owe us money? 24 MR. NAUNI: Right. 25 MR. NARCOMEY: He does? How much 17 1 about, do you know? 2 MR. NAUNI: Well, what happened was 3 he owed us about $5000, and so we -- you know, we 4 sent him notices and everything, and he was 5 supposed to pay us and all. And then, you know, 6 he's just never responded. 7 From what we understood that he -- 8 the vendors, some of the ones that he owes, they 9 said that he went bankrupt. So we tried to see if 10 that was true, but we couldn't find anything that 11 he went bankrupt. So, yeah, he still owes that to 12 us, so we're just trying to get him to pay up, you 13 know. But it's still on the books that he owes us 14 about $5000 from the smoke shop. 15 We had a problem with the one over in 16 Apache that -- they were saying the kids were 17 going over there and partying and so on, then they 18 were trying to break into that trailer. They said 19 cigarettes were in there. 20 And we took a visit out there and 21 there wasn't hardly anything. I think it was like 22 empty cartons basically there, and so she wanted 23 to move the trailer off of the site. So I had the 24 lawyers to look into it, and I think they -- what 25 was it that -- I believe the contract had expired, 18 1 but that trailer still belongs to Norman. And so 2 we thought, well, if we go in and confiscate that, 3 maybe we'd have to get some money, but it's not 4 really worth anything. It's just an old beat up 5 trailer there. 6 So we're trying to recoup our money. 7 And we looked to see how many cigarettes were in 8 there, and they were, you know, probably all out 9 of date and so on, so there's no way of us getting 10 any revenue through that. But we still haven't -- 11 Navarro, she's the one, she's the owner, Geneva. 12 MR. PATTERSON: And she wants that 13 trailer gone, too. 14 MR. ASEPERMY: Who owns that trailer? 15 MR. PATTERSON: Geneva Navarro. 16 MR. ASEPERMY: She owns the trailer? 17 MR. PATTERSON: Oh, no, the trailer? 18 Norman owns the trailer. 19 MR. NAUNI: Do you want to kind of 20 give them a scenario on that thing? 21 MR. NORMAN: Yeah. Jim and I, we had 22 some conversation, I guess over the course of a 23 couple of different months, I guess, it came up. 24 Norman had a lease with Geneva. And it was not 25 clear to us whether the Nation would have a direct 19 1 claim to the trailer in terms of trying to get it 2 forfeited to pay the back taxes; although it does 3 seem that the landowner would have some recourse 4 for him breaching the lease. 5 And we don't really have a very clean 6 direct way, unless we go directly at him 7 individually with respect to whatever individual 8 assets he has, to try to recoup the payments. We 9 originally -- I think when the question came up, 10 it was see if there was some low-hanging fruit 11 there that we can grab ahold of and force him to 12 pay the taxes, or use the assets to recoup the 13 taxes, but it's a little more complicated by the 14 fact of the relationship that he had with the 15 landowner. And then the issue about the trailer 16 not really being of any value, as well. 17 So at this point, the only real 18 option would be if -- you know, somebody suggested 19 that we go directly after him for any assets he 20 has. It was then reported that he had filed 21 bankruptcy. I guess it was maybe about three or 22 four weeks ago we did some searching and could not 23 find any bankruptcy filings for him, so that issue 24 is a little unclear too. 25 It's just a question of, you know, 20 1 how much time and effort do you want to put into 2 trying to figure out whether he has anything to go 3 after and get it, or is it not worth the effort to 4 do that? 5 MR. NAUNI: And I think as far as the 6 procedure, we probably need some type of procedure 7 for how Ms. Navarro would be able to move the 8 trailer, whatever, because they've called me. 9 What is her sister's name? 10 MR. PATTERSON: Well, is Trivet a 11 sister? 12 MR. NAUNI: I think her sister or 13 aunt or something, a niece. 14 MR. PATTERSON: I'm not sure. But 15 Trivet is who we -- 16 MR. NAUNI: She wants the trailer. 17 She wants to pull it down and put it at her house 18 and so on. So I've had a number of calls from 19 her, you know. So I think if we could get some 20 type of letter giving them direction on what the 21 possibility was for them to remove the trailer, I 22 think that would, you know, solve some of that 23 problem there. 24 MR. TIPPECONNIE: But wouldn't it be 25 between Geneva and Norman on the trailer? 21 1 MR. NAUNI: Yeah, that's what I told 2 them. But, you know, they're trying to look to 3 us. And I said, "Well, that's really not our 4 responsibility. But being a tribal member in the 5 situation, we can try to help you, but we can't go 6 in and do everything for you." 7 And I had told her to go to CFR Court 8 and go through the court and try to get that 9 money. So that was why she said she was going to 10 go ahead and go up there and remove that trailer 11 and everything. 12 I said, "Well, hold up until we make 13 sure this is going to happen." Because we weren't 14 sure whether we were going to take the trailer or 15 not, you know, so -- 16 MR. NORMAN: And the issue, if there 17 continue to be kids hanging around out there, and 18 it becomes a problem of a nuisance, even though 19 she had a lease with Norman and was his trailer 20 that he was using to conduct business with, the 21 fact that it's a nuisance or it becomes a problem 22 with the landowners that she has the address. 23 Now, if she wants to make a request 24 to the Comanche Nation government or environmental 25 programs or somebody to help her remove the 22 1 trailer, she can do that. But in terms of some 2 sort of a tax enforcement, because of that 3 relationship and that circumstance, there's really 4 not a direct way to assist her with the trailer 5 from a Tax Commission standpoint. 6 MR. TIPPECONNIE: It seems like it's 7 her, but it seems like at some point if there was 8 some -- I don't know what the terms were, if there 9 was a lease with money due and all that, after a 10 point it's in a trespass. I mean, it's there 11 illegally because there's no -- but that's her 12 thing. 13 MR. PATTERSON: She just needs to 14 pursue it. I've talked with her and she 15 understands that the lease expired, Norman owes 16 her money, that trailer is sitting there, she 17 would have some rights to it. She just needs to 18 assert those rights. 19 MR. TIPPECONNIE: I have a question 20 on these. When you look at -- I'm thinking like 21 in those areas, you know, there's two checks that 22 were returned. 23 MR. NAUNI: Where are you at? 24 MR. TIPPECONNIE: On the revenue 25 journal. 23 1 MR. NAUNI: Okay. 2 MR. TIPPECONNIE: It shows under 3 administration, two checks returned. How do you 4 -- you settle that at some point, right? 5 MR. NAUNI: Oh, okay. I know we had 6 -- okay, yeah, that's -- I think that's 7 individuals. And what they do, you know, they 8 come in, they send us a letter from the bank 9 that's saying that these have bounced. So I make 10 copies of them and put them in the file for the 11 bank, and then I turned it over next door to the 12 tags, and then Ann is the one that takes care of 13 the checks. 14 She writes them a letter, tells them, 15 you know, they have so many days to do this, plus 16 it's $25, and then they go through that process. 17 And then so they can come in and give us cash or a 18 money order, or a cashier's check, but then they 19 take care of that, you know, but that's how we do 20 that. 21 MR. TIPPECONNIE: So these are -- 22 looking down on the bottom, are they taken care 23 of? I know there's a minus 417. 24 MR. NAUNI: How much is it for? 25 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Well, there's one 24 1 for 15 and one for 20. I know they're not big 2 checks, but I'm just curious because I just want 3 to see how you handle it. 4 MR. NAUNI: Yeah, the $330.83? 5 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yeah. 6 MR. NAUNI: That right there, I think 7 that -- it could be a return check, but also it 8 could be a -- I didn't have a place to put the 9 sales tax and then the beer tax and so on, so I 10 may have put that over there. I'll have to look 11 at my computer and see what the transaction was 12 for that. 13 MR. MITHLO: Those aren't all 14 returned checks. 15 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Oh, they're not? 16 MR. MITHLO: No, those aren't all 17 returned checks. 18 MR. TIPPECONNIE: What are they? 19 MR. MITHLO: He didn't have a line 20 item. 21 MR. TIPPECONNIE: So he just put 22 something in there? 23 MR. NAUNI: Yeah, just to show it. 24 MR. MITHLO: We have very few of 25 those anyway. 25 1 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Okay. Now, on the 2 one I'm curious, too, on the L Column. Fuel 3 apportionment, I think it meant, the 9182. What 4 is that? 5 MR. NAUNI: That's the amount of 6 people that we have. 7 MR. TIPPECONNIE: That's number of 8 people? 9 MR. NAUNI: Of tribal members living 10 in the State of Oklahoma where we get our per 11 capita payment. It's a per capita, so that's why 12 I put it up there, to show how many we have with 13 Enrollment that's living in the State of Oklahoma 14 that we can draw. 15 But, yeah, this M Column is kind 16 of -- it's like administrative or returned 17 checks. 18 MR. TIPPECONNIE: You put whatever in 19 there? 20 MR. NAUNI: If it doesn't fit right 21 in this category, kind of put it over there so we 22 can separate it. Because if you put it right in 23 the cells of these other things, it kind of losses 24 its identity, you know, so -- but that's what it 25 is. 26 1 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Not necessarily 2 returned checks, but there's -- 3 MR. NAUNI: Yeah, it could either be 4 that -- it could be a returned check, or it could 5 be, like I said, beer sales or something like 6 that, you know, that we didn't put in the sales 7 tax. 8 But we did have a -- some checks that 9 came in. Lance called me up one day and said, "We 10 got some checks for you here." 11 I said, "Checks?" 12 He said, "Yeah, we found them." 13 So I went out and got them. It was 14 for '07, I think. They were three checks from the 15 Comanche Nation Casino, and they were laying 16 around out there. So, anyway, we just went ahead 17 and deposited them, and then they bounced because 18 they had closed the bank account, you know. So 19 that next -- next month you're going to see a 20 bounced -- bounced checks on there. It was like 21 $8000. So I haven't got to talk to them and, you 22 know, find out why they were laying out there and 23 so on. We're still reviewing that, because we do 24 check on whenever the payments come in and make 25 sure it's timely and so on, you know, so we're 27 1 looking into that. Because the person that was 2 doing that, they should have caught that, you 3 know. 4 MR. PATTERSON: The return checks 5 reflect on the bank statement, and we rarely have 6 one. I only have two with me. I have February 7 and March, and there's just none on either one of 8 them. 9 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Very good. 10 MR. COFFEY: William, how would we go 11 about a collection process if we don't have a 12 court in place? 13 MR. NORMAN: Well, there are actually 14 some things that you can do through the CFR Court, 15 which serves as your tribal court at this point. 16 We could pursuit a direct action to get somebody 17 that owes the Tax Commission or the Nation money. 18 I think that the primary motivation here, we're 19 trying to determine whether there was a simple way 20 to get an asset that's out there now as opposed to 21 just spending the money to go get a judgment 22 against somebody that doesn't have the ability to 23 pay the judgment. 24 MR. COFFEY: So it'd be better if we 25 had our own court then, right? 28 1 MR. NORMAN: You could probably have 2 a more streamlined process if you had your own 3 court. I think later today we're going to give 4 you all an initial draft of a Tribal Court Code 5 that we're working on. You know, it's in the 6 beginning stage, but it's something that we would 7 like for y'all begin to cull over and explore, and 8 get a sense of what you like, what you don't like, 9 and the direction that we recommend that you be 10 going. 11 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Wasn't that done, 12 also, in the past, or is my memory crazy? I 13 thought there was some kind of code that was being 14 developed, court code. 15 MR. COFFEY: Children's code. 16 MR. TIPPECONNIE: No, not the 17 children's. I thought there was another code. I 18 remember hearing -- I guess it was just that you 19 were working on something, I guess. 20 MR. COFFEY: Well, then, in the -- 21 like Geneva, if she has a claim, she'd have to go 22 to CFR Court, too? 23 MR. BURSON: Yes. 24 MR. COFFEY: I mean, what would be 25 like the expense to file something? 29 1 MR. BURSON: I think it's $60. 2 MR. COFFEY: Is that court capable 3 now that it's made a restructuring? 4 MR. NORMAN: Well, I mean, I suppose 5 people can debate what you mean by capable. Is 6 the infrastructure there, and is that a place that 7 you can go, and are the codes in place to do 8 that? Yes. How quickly it will move along, how 9 much it would cost to bird dog it in order to make 10 it move along is a different issue. And so -- 11 MR. COFFEY: But you could get a 12 judgment through that court? 13 MR. NORMAN: Absolutely. And the 14 judgment there, you could get full faith and 15 credit from the state courts on that judgment as 16 well. So there is a mechanism there to pursue. 17 MR. TIPPECONNIE: I think you're 18 making a good point, too, when you say bird dog. 19 I think if someone takes something to the court, 20 what I find, the person that's filed that has to 21 keep pushing, too. It can't be -- you know, you 22 have to be assertive as an individual on your 23 docket item or whatever; otherwise, it sits. But 24 you be insistent. 25 MR. COFFEY: I think at some point in 30 1 time, if you got one check for $330, one for $335, 2 and more down the line, I think you're going to 3 have to file a series of these probably at one 4 time. Because otherwise they're going to say, 5 well, they're not going to do anything. 6 MR. NAUNI: Yeah, we what we normally 7 do is, she notifies me if, you know, some checks 8 that don't get paid and everything. And so what 9 the procedure in the past was, is that we would 10 turn that over to the CFR investigator or 11 whatever, and they would come in, then they can go 12 through the process and take it, you know, from 13 there. So -- 14 MR. NORMAN: Yeah, there's kind of 15 two different mechanisms. If you're talking about 16 a dispute under a lease, he or she with counsel 17 would go and file a civil action against the 18 person that owes her the money. If you're talking 19 about a bounced check, it basically becomes an 20 issue of Law Enforcement and CFR prosecutor to 21 pursue. 22 MR. PATTERSON: We just have very, 23 very few problems with collection in taxes. 24 Rarely do I see a returned check on here. It's 25 just a rare -- 31 1 MR. COFFEY: Times are getting hard. 2 MR. PATTERSON: Yes, and maybe there 3 may be more. 4 MR. MITHLO: If worse comes to worse, 5 somebody comes in with a returned check, we don't 6 renew their vehicle, or we don't let them register 7 another vehicle. And then they usually come in 8 and do the -- I don't know if y'all want to do it 9 with Norman or not. 10 MR. NAUNI: But we don't -- we just 11 give them one chance on a bounced check. If they 12 bounce a check, then they don't ever write a check 13 again. You know, so we got it in the computer 14 that they have a bounced check, and so they have 15 to pay cash. We don't take any more bounced 16 checks from them. 17 MR. COFFEY: So if you don't renew 18 Norman's license, then he has to go to the state, 19 right? 20 MR. NAUNI: Yeah. One thing that I 21 don't think we really have any action, though, 22 that we may want to consider for people that do 23 owe us money, significant money, and so if they 24 want to come in -- because the problem -- I think 25 this guy was a Quoetone, I believe. It was about 32 1 six months ago, or five months ago. He came in 2 and wanted to get a tobacco license and a general 3 business license. So I said, "Are you a tribal 4 member?" 5 He said, "No." 6 And I said, "What do you want to 7 do?" 8 He said, "Well, I want to put up a 9 tobacco place," you know, over here where Norman 10 had this deal, and he had the people and 11 everything. 12 I said, "Well, it has to be a tribal 13 member to do this." 14 And he said, "Well," he said, "maybe 15 we could get" -- he said, "I have a silent 16 partner." 17 I said, "Silent partner?" 18 He said, "Yeah, Norman Nauni is the 19 silent partner." 20 I said, "Well, you know, it's got to 21 be on the up and up. You've got to have a 22 contract, you know, it's a partnership. You need 23 to bring the legal documents in here." And I 24 said, "So if that happens, there's some 25 liabilities that's going to have to be taken care 33 1 of before you do anything," you know. 2 And so that's the thing that I looked 3 into. And we really don't have anything to say, 4 okay, if you owe so much money here, then you 5 won't get a tobacco license, or you went get, you 6 know, a general business license, or you won't be 7 able to, you know, even to register a vehicle or 8 whatever. We don't have anything in there because 9 we never really had that problem, I guess. 10 MR. NORMAN: Right now the way the 11 things are written, the application for the 12 licenses and everything, it is sort of left to the 13 discretion of the Administrator and the Tax 14 Commission moving forward as to whether or not in 15 those circumstances you want to do it. If you 16 want to adopt some, you know, black letter law 17 that says in this circumstance you will not be 18 allowed to have one, we could probably do that 19 through regulation. 20 And then you could just say, look, 21 this is -- you are prohibited from applying for a 22 license in this circumstance with the Tax 23 Commission. 24 MR. TIPPECONNIE: It seems to me 25 that'd be smart, because an applicant knows up 34 1 front, you know, the circumstances. So if they 2 have an arrears or something, you know, in debt, 3 or have this predicament, then they would know, 4 rather than say it's the discretion of us to 5 decide. 6 MR. NAUNI: I think that'd be the 7 prudent thing to do, then we'd have it, so then I 8 could point it out to them. But just like you 9 were saying, it's my authority that I don't let 10 them renew until they have this obligation with 11 us, you know. 12 So push comes to shove, they're going 13 to say, "Well, where does it say that in the 14 codes?" I'd feel more comfortable about having 15 something in there that we may use if we have to. 16 Not every incident, you know, because they're all 17 different. 18 But I think that might be something 19 we could pursue in some way of doing that. But 20 right now, if they come in -- like a smoke shop 21 comes in, he wants to renew his license, you know, 22 then I don't renew it until he pays up, catches up 23 everything if he's behind. 24 MS. PARKER: Also, too, I don't know 25 if you'd want to make it part of the Code, but 35 1 would you ever consider reporting that to the 2 credit bureau? 3 MR. NAUNI: I went through that and 4 found out that you have to be a member of the 5 Chamber of Commerce to use the mechanism, their 6 check writing place or whatever. And so we just 7 never did pursue it, because like we said on the 8 checks, we really didn't have that much of a 9 problem. 10 MR. PATTERSON: It's just not a 11 problem. 12 MR. NAUNI: I looked into that, you 13 know, and trying to do that. Then I looked into 14 on our point of sale system, whether we want to 15 have them to verify some organization to verify 16 that they -- that is a good check and so on. But 17 I think it was like five percent or something like 18 that. 19 MR. PATTERSON: It's pretty 20 expensive. We do it at the casinos and it's 21 pretty expensive. 22 MR. NAUNI: I couldn't see spending 23 that money for a few instances. I said, well, no, 24 we're just wasting our money on doing that, 25 because we don't have that problem. Rarely do we 36 1 have a check that would bounce like that. 2 MR. TIPPECONNIE: I brought it up on 3 the monthly journal. But when you look at the -- 4 I brought it up on the daily journal, excuse me. 5 But when you look at the monthly journal, you 6 know, that same column, what you're saying is a 7 lot of things in it, but the dollar goes up there, 8 you know. It's above that amount. 9 MR. NAUNI: Fiscal year? 10 MR. TIPPECONNIE: The other, the 11 March 2009 table. It says Monthly Revenue 12 Journal, 1,667,000. It's two pages from the 13 previous one. If this were numbered, I'd give you 14 the number. But see the other column? It's 15 got -- 16 MR. NAUNI: Oh, yeah, yeah. 17 MR. TIPPECONNIE: But you're saying 18 again it's not bounced checks, but it's something. 19 MR. NAUNI: Sometimes we have a 20 category there that we don't have anything to put 21 it under. It's like when we had the bond. 22 Remember at court we put the bond up, and then 23 they reimbursed us back, so there was really no 24 place that we could put it over here. So that's 25 why it's my kind of catch-all, this other. You 37 1 know, we put the moneys in there, and so that's 2 kind of what's happening. 3 On this one, I don't know what that 4 is. I could look at it. But, yeah -- 5 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yeah, I'd be 6 curious to know whether it's a debit or whether 7 it's an earning or what is it. 8 MR. NAUNI: Yeah, it's income. 9 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yeah, it's income, 10 I can see, but I don't know -- 11 MR. NAUNI: Because the reason that I 12 don't do that is because we would end up with a 13 sheet, you know, you'd have to fold it out like 14 this because -- 15 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Little piece of 16 this? 17 MR. NAUNI: Right. That's the reason 18 I've tried to stay on one page. But we've got so 19 many categories of all these things, you know, 20 that can happen. And it kind of becomes an 21 exercise in futility, because, you know, you're -- 22 MR. TIPPECONNIE: One's a penny, 23 one's a dollar? 24 MR. NAUNI: Right, so that's why we 25 don't do that. But I'll look those up and see 38 1 what they are and tell you next month on that. 2 MR. PATTERSON: Anymore comments on 3 the reports? If not, let's go to Item V, New 4 Business. Jim, William, any business? 5 MR. NORMAN: Nothing really going on 6 on the tobacco front or tax front otherwise at 7 this point. We're sort of holding right now, so 8 we don't have any particular item to report on. 9 MR. COFFEY: What's the situation 10 between the other tribes and the state regarding 11 their tobacco compacts, like the Osage? 12 MR. NORMAN: I got an update from 13 Barbara Warner, it seems like it was last week. 14 She periodically sends us a list of all the 15 compacts in the state. I think there are now nine 16 other tribes that have followed our suit and 17 gotten involved in new tobacco compacts: 18 Cherokee, Osage, Kaw, Pawnee, I think Iowas are 19 in, Wichita Affiliated Tribes. 20 So I think, you know, as tribes begin 21 to examine it, they're seeing that it gives them 22 an opportunity. Tax is going to be there. Their 23 retailers are going to have to adjust to that in 24 terms of that pricing, but it's going to provide 25 an opportunity for the tribes to make more money 39 1 in tax revenue as opposed to having the state 2 collect it and then having to try to get it back 3 from the state. I think that's the feature that 4 they like. So I think we'll see more and more 5 tribes move in that direction. 6 Unfortunately, there's not going to 7 be a tax or a tobacco panel this year at the 8 Sovereignty Symposium, so we're not going to get a 9 chance to get a good sense and maybe educate some 10 of the other tribes on the new option they have, 11 but I suspect we'll see more and more tribes move 12 in that direction. 13 MR. PATTERSON: Anything else? The 14 next meeting date is scheduled for May 28th, the 15 fourth Thursday of May. Is that acceptable at 16 that time? 17 (Discussion held off the record.) 18 MR. PATTERSON: If there's no other 19 business, I know the Gaming Board would like to 20 meet with CBC for just a few minutes. I know 21 you've got a full schedule, but just a few 22 minutes. So if we could maybe -- 23 MR. COFFEY: When's Memorial Day? 24 MR. ASEPERMY: May 25th. 25 MR. COFFEY: Okay. So we won't have 40 1 no conflict on that day? 2 MR. PATTERSON: If there's nothing 3 else to come before the body, we can adjourn. 4 MR. ASEPERMY: Just a reminder: The 5 CIVA is sponsoring an Armed Forces Day banquet, a 6 sit-down dinner at the Community Center in 7 Apache. Didn't we honor you there, Raymond, in 8 Apache, or was that Memorial Day? We honored you 9 Veterans' Day. Anyway, we're having a sit-down 10 banquet at the Community Center in Apache starting 11 at noon. 12 MR. COFFEY: On the 25th? 13 MR. ASEPERMY: Yes. The veterans are 14 invited with their families. And on May the 25th 15 at 11 o'clock, we will have our Memorial Day 16 ceremony at the Court of Honor at the complex. So 17 you're invited if you want to attend. And Jim and 18 Norman and Eddie and LaNora and Robert and Raymond 19 and Jim, I hope y'all enjoyed the video. 20 MR. PATTERSON: Fantastic. 21 MR. ASEPERMY: And I think they're 22 going to show it to the employees today on the 23 Tradition of the Warriors. I talked to Mike Tosee 24 last night. We are going to be getting 1000 25 copies. I had a couple of changes on the cover to 41 1 make it more legible, and we had to change a 2 couple of Army guys to Marines and Air Force. So 3 we should be receiving them in about two weeks, 4 Wallace. 5 MR. COFFEY: That'd be good. 6 MR. ASEPERMY: And I will make sure 7 that the CBC, and whoever wants, will receive one, 8 and then we'll put some of them up for sale. I 9 guess that's what we're going to do. It's 10 property of the Comanche Nation now. And I will 11 confer with the CBC as far as how we distribute 12 them before I commit. 13 (Discussion held off the record.) 14 MR. PATTERSON: Next meeting, May 15 28th. Adjourn? 16 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Adjourn. 17 MR. MAHSEET: So moved, second. 18 MR. PATTERSON: I need a motion and a 19 second. 20 MR. TIPPECONNIE: I made the motion 21 and Eddie seconded it. 22 MR. PATTERSON: All in favor of 23 adjourning, "aye." 24 (Aye.) 25 MR. PATTERSON: Any oppose? Any 42 1 abstentions? We are adjourned. 2 (Meeting adjourned at 9:52 a.m.) 3 4 5 6 * * * * * * 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 43 1 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE 2 3 STATE OF OKLAHOMA ) 4 ) 5 COUNTY OF OKLAHOMA ) 6 7 I, Kelly Stoabs, Certified Shorthand 8 Reporter for the State of Oklahoma, certify that 9 the above and foregoing meeting transcribed by me 10 is a true and correct transcript of the meeting; 11 that the meeting was held on April 16, 2009, in 12 the State of Oklahoma; that I am not an attorney 13 for nor a relative of any said parties, or 14 otherwise interested in the event of said action. 15 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set 16 my hand and seal of office on this the 21st day of 17 April, 2009. 18 19 20 __________________________ Kelly Stoabs 21 Certified Shorthand Reporter for the State of Oklahoma 22 23 24 25 44 1 SECRETARY/TREASURER'S CERTIFICATE 2 3 I, LaNora Parker, Secretary/ 4 Treasurer of Comanche Nation Tax Commission, 5 certify that the above is a true and correct 6 transcript of a meeting of Comanche Nation Tax 7 Commission members held at 9:10 a.m. on April 16, 8 2009, and that the meeting was duly called and 9 held in all respects in accordance with the 10 charters and bylaws of the Comanche Nation and 11 that a quorum was present. 12 I further certify that the votes and 13 resolutions of the Tax Commission members of 14 Comanche Nation at the meeting are operative and 15 in full force and effect and have not been 16 annulled or modified by any vote or resolution 17 passed or adopted by the Comanche Nation Tax 18 Commission since that meeting. 19 20 21 Signed:_________________________ Date:_____________ 22 LaNora Parker Secretary/Treasurer 23 24 25