1 1 2 3 4 5 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS OF THE 6 COMANCHE BUSINESS COMMITTEE 7 MONTHLY MEETING 8 NOVEMBER 6, 2010, 10:11 A.M. 9 COMANCHE NATION COMPLEX 10 LAWTON, OKLAHOMA 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 ________________________________________________ 22 REPORTED BY: KELLY STOABS, CSR DODSON COURT REPORTING & LEGAL VIDEO 23 435 NORTH WALKER AVENUE, SUITE 102 OKLAHOMA CITY, OK 73102 24 405/235-1828 OFFICE ~ 405/235-1266 FAX 877/681-2119 TOLL FREE 25 dcri@coxinet.net ~ www.dodsonreporting.net 2 1 A P P E A R A N C E S 2 3 COMANCHE NATION BUSINESS COMMITTEE MEMBERS: 4 Michael Burgess, Chairman Richard "Bunky" Henson, Vice-Chairman 5 Robert Tippeconnie, Secretary-Treasurer Ronald Red Elk, Committeeman #1 6 Mark Wauahdooah, Committeeman #2 Darrell Kosechequetah, Committeeman #3 7 Clyde R. Narcomey, Committeeman #4 8 9 LEGAL COUNSEL: 10 William Norman, James Burson Hobbs, Straus, Dean & Walker 11 12 13 * * * * * * 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 INDEX OF PROCEEDINGS 2 PAGE 3 Meeting called to order at 10:11 a.m. 5 4 Roll Call. 5 5 Invocation. 6 6 Motion passed to table minutes. 6 7 Motion passed to amend agenda. 7 8 Motion passed to table Resolution # 143-10 8 Connahvichnah Land Lease. 9 Motion passed to table Resolution # 144-10 8 10 Dorcas Powhoneat Allotment No. 841 Land Acquisition. 11 Motion passed to approve Resolution 10 12 # 154-10/Enrollment List No. 846/Eligible. 13 Motion passed to approve Resolution 12 # 155-10/Enrollment List No. 847/Ineligible. 14 Motion passed to approve Resolution 13 15 # 156-10/Enrollment List No. 848/Ineligible. 16 Motion passed to approve Resolution 14 # 157-10/Andy Werwickah or Pahahbo 17 Land Acquisition. 18 Motion passed to approve Resolution 17 # 158-10/Amend Comanche Nation 19 Dangerous Drug Act. 20 Motion passed to approve Resolution 30 # 159-10/Comanche Nation News Censorship. 21 Motion passed to table Resolution 35 22 # 160-10/Honenaker Land Acquisition Through Probate. 23 Motion passed to approve Resolution 57 24 # 161-10/Approve Levy of RAP FY 2011 Per Capita Payments Under Federal Court Writs of 25 Garnishment. 4 1 INDEX OF PROCEEDINGS (continued) 2 PAGE 3 Motion passed to table Resolution 73 # 162-10/Approve Levy of RAP FY 2010 Per Capita 4 Payments for Child Support Arrearages. 5 Motion passed to approve Resolution 75 # 163-10/Grant Application to US Department 6 of Health and Human Services AOA, Part C of Title VI Caregiver Support Program. 7 Motion passed to approve Resolution 79 8 # 164-10/Grant Application to US Dept. of Health and Human Services AOA, Part A of 9 Title VI, Nutrition Program. 10 Motion passed to table Resolution 81 # 165-10/TERO Ordinance 2010. 11 Motion passed to disapprove Bowen Property. 86 12 Motion passed to approve Kaniatobe Property. 92 13 Motion passed to amend agenda. 97 14 Tanisha Burgess/Childcare. 104 15 Motion failed to pass: Gladys 135 16 Narcomey/Cemetery. 17 Motion failed to rescind resolution 164 removing Debbie Hendrix and family 18 from Comanche roll. 19 Executive session commenced at 2:50 p.m. 201 20 Reporter's Certificate. 202 21 Secretary/Treasurer's Certificate. 203 22 23 24 25 5 1 (Meeting called to order at 2 10:11 a.m.) 3 MR. BURGESS: Good morning, ladies 4 and gentlemen. We'll go ahead and call to order 5 here. We have a draft agenda. The completed one 6 is coming to us. Somebody asked why it's a 7 draft. It's because late last night we had two 8 resolutions for funding that had to be completed 9 after 5 o'clock, so they're making the changes 10 this morning. So, Bob, would you do Roll Call, 11 please? 12 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Michael Burgess? 13 MR. BURGESS: Here. 14 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Richard Henson? 15 MR. HENSON: Here. 16 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Robert Tippeconnie, 17 here. Ronald RedElk? 18 MR. REDELK: Here. 19 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Mark Wauahdooah? 20 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Here. 21 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Darrell 22 Kosechequetah? 23 MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: Here. 24 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Clyde Narcomey? 25 MR. NARCOMEY: Here. 6 1 MR. TIPPECONNIE: All present, 2 Mr. Chairman. 3 MR. BURGESS: Okay. Bob, why don't 4 you go ahead and do the invocation. 5 MR. TIPPECONNIE: (Invocation.) 6 MR. BURGESS: So with that, 7 gentlemen, if you want to go to last month's 8 minutes. 9 MR. NARCOMEY: Motion to table the 10 minutes until later. 11 MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: Second. 12 MR. BURGESS: Mr. Narcomey made the 13 motion, seconded by Darrell. Table the minutes 14 until a little later. 15 MR. NARCOMEY: Mr. Chairman, under 16 new and old business, I need to add on one. I 17 called in Wednesday, maybe Thursday, to add a 18 person's name on there, and it's not listed 19 there. I'd like to go ahead and add that on. 20 Debbie Hendrix. I'm Number 1, but move me down to 21 3 or 4. It don't matter. 22 MR. BURGESS: Also under new and old 23 business, we have Camp 7. All of you know who 24 Camp 7 is. They have requested to use the 25 building on Monday. Is that right, Mr. Owens? 7 1 Yeah, and I told, I believe it was Dale, Dale 2 Warner. He's supposed to be here to represent. 3 They're looking for a little assistance. 4 So Mr. Narcomey has a motion to amend 5 the agenda to add Mrs. Hendrix under new and old 6 business. Is that where you want it, Clyde? 7 MR. NARCOMEY: Yes, sir. 8 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: I second that, 9 Mr. Chairman. 10 MR. BURGESS: Motion has been made by 11 Clyde for these amendments, seconded by 12 Mr. Wauahdooah. All those in favor signify by 13 saying "aye". 14 (Aye.) 15 MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same 16 sign. All those abstain, same sign. Motion 17 passes. 18 MR. TIPPECONNIE: This Resolution 19 143-10 was something that we tabled previously. 20 This was a request to lease those lots that we 21 have on the main street in Apache. So the motion 22 was to authorize that lease, and the lessee wanted 23 to pay 250 a month for a three-year lease. 24 MR. BURGESS: Is that party here? 25 MR. HENSON: I'll make a motion to 8 1 table. 2 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Okay. 3 MR. BURGESS: Motion to table. 4 Second? 5 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: I second the motion. 6 MR. BURGESS: Second by 7 Mr. Wauahdooah. All those in favor signify by 8 saying "aye". 9 (Aye.) 10 MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same 11 sign. All those abstain, same sign. The ayes 12 have it. 13 The next resolution is Number 144-10, 14 Dorcas Powhoneat Allotment Number 841. It was 15 tabled as well. 16 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yes, it was the one 17 that Mr. Wendell Goody. That's the one south of 18 that cemetery west of Apache. 19 MR. BURGESS: That was tabled? 20 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yes, it was tabled 21 previously. 22 MR. BURGESS: I think you made the 23 motion, Mr. Henson, to table. 24 MR. HENSON: Yes. I make a motion to 25 continue. 9 1 MR. TIPPECONNIE: You want to 2 continue? 3 MR. HENSON: We still haven't 4 discussed that, either. 5 MR. TIPPECONNIE: You're making a 6 motion? 7 MR. HENSON: Yes. 8 MR. BURGESS: Motion made by 9 Mr. Henson. Second? Second? 10 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: I second that 11 motion. 12 MR. BURGESS: Mr. Wauahdooah 13 seconds. This goes to enrollment. This is a list 14 of elders. The resolution reads that therefore be 15 it resolved, this list of eligible applicants have 16 been verified as eligible pursuant to Article III, 17 Section 1(c) of the constitution of the Comanche 18 Nation. It states all descendants of allottees 19 eligible for membership under the provision of 20 Section 1(a) of this article having 1/8th or more 21 degree of Comanche Indian blood. Therefore be it 22 resolved that the Comanche Business Committee 23 accept the verification of eligibility for the 24 applicants as shown on List 846 by the Comanche 25 Nation enrollment office. 10 1 MR. NARCOMEY: Mr. Chairman, I make a 2 motion to approve this Resolution 154-10. Also, 3 I'd like to go ahead, especially this one here 4 today, can y'all sign that today because of a 5 legal deal on a young kid, a baby, born back in 6 June. 7 MR. TIPPECONNIE: If we pass it, 8 we'll sign it today. 9 MR. NARCOMEY: I'd like to have it 10 signed today, that motion. 11 MR. BURGESS: We have a motion by 12 Mr. Narcomey. Second? 13 MR. HENSON: I'll second it. 14 MR. BURGESS: Second by Mr. Henson. 15 All those in favor signify by saying "aye". 16 (Aye.) 17 MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same 18 sign. All those abstain, same sign. Time out 19 while I sign it. 20 MR. WHITEWOLF: What's the total now, 21 Mike? 22 MR. BURGESS: That's what I was going 23 to do, count. 21. That would bring us to, I 24 believe it was 15,010 -- no, and 12 last time off 25 the top of my head. So we're now at approximately 11 1 15,030. 2 MR. TIPPECONNIE: 32 or something 3 like that. 4 MR. BURGESS: 32 or something like 5 that. 6 We've had a few phone calls from 7 tribal members -- I'm going to digress a little 8 bit here -- who are upset with the per cap 9 amounts. Up until September of this year we had 10 added 600 members to the tribal rolls. And sadly, 11 we lost approximately 100 members. So our numbers 12 are fastly growing, particularly because of the 13 1/8th blood quantum that's been asked for. 14 So people want to be upset with the 15 leadership, but all per cap is contingent upon 16 income from the gaming, net income after all bills 17 are paid. We keep adding now 20, and we were 18 averaging 40 new members a year. That dilutes the 19 income. We've added on approximately another 25 20 or 35 elders age 62 and above. And so with the 21 elder payment at $1,000, and we keep adding more 22 elders because we're living longer, and then we're 23 adding more members every month, per cap is never 24 going to be around the $1,000 range all the time. 25 Some elders have stopped me and asked 12 1 me what to do. I said well, that's up to you 2 all. One elder had mentioned in times past that 3 they close the rolls. I said well, we'll run into 4 a constitutional question. Somebody's going to 5 say we're illegal or out of order, but y'all as 6 families need to discuss this among yourself. 7 When we start getting to 20,000 members, is it 8 even worth it to spend, give out per cap when it 9 might be $100, $200? And our elders are going to 10 be increasing in number because we're living 11 longer. So ladies and gentlemen, that's something 12 for y'all to consider among yourselves, discuss it 13 among your families. 14 The next item is Resolution 155-10. 15 This is a list of ineligible members, applicants I 16 should say, and they do not descend from a 17 Comanche allottee, an original allottee as 18 specified in the constitution by Article III, 19 Section 1(b). 20 MR. NARCOMEY: Mr. Chairman, I make a 21 motion to pass Resolution 155-10. 22 MR. HENSON: Second. 23 MR. BURGESS: Second by Mr. Henson. 24 All those in favor signify by saying "aye". 25 (Aye.) 13 1 MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same 2 sign. All those abstain, same sign. 3 We also have Resolution 156-10, which 4 is a list of the ineligibles. 5 MR. HENSON: I make a motion to 6 approve. 7 MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: Second. 8 MR. BURGESS: Motion made by 9 Mr. Henson, second by Mr. Kosechequetah. They do 10 not meet the provisions of Article III, Section 11 3(b) of the constitution. The person is at the 12 time of the adoption of this constitution an 13 enrolled member of another tribe or has in the 14 past received and accepted or, if a minor, whose 15 parents or legal guardian have received and 16 accepted for said minor, material or monetary 17 benefits as a member of another tribe. 18 Motion's been made by Mr. Henson to 19 approve and seconded by Mr. Darrell 20 Kosechequetah. All those in favor signify by 21 saying "aye". 22 (Aye.) 23 MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same 24 sign. All those abstain, same sign. 25 MR. NARCOMEY: Mr. Chairman, I hate 14 1 to interrupt just a little bit. I just saw Carl 2 Tahkopfer back here. We were supposed to have 3 discussed this deal today and I just now noticed 4 it's not on the agenda. 5 MR. BURGESS: That's right. 6 MR. NARCOMEY: We were supposed to 7 discuss the Cyril water deal, so we need to add 8 him. 9 MR. BURGESS: Carl, is Mike -- what 10 was his last name? Is he going to be here with us 11 today? 12 MR. TAHKOPFER: Yeah, he'll be here. 13 He's coming. 14 MR. BURGESS: We can add him when we 15 take a break from resolutions. We'll add him at 16 that time. 17 MR. HENSON: Under new and old 18 business? 19 MR. BURGESS: Yes, after we finish 20 the resolutions. 21 Okay. Resolution 157-10, the Andy 22 Werwickah or Pahahbo Land Acquisition. 23 MR. TIPPECONNIE: We discussed that 24 before, but never acted on it. 25 MR. BURGESS: Oh, Bill Yackeyonny? 15 1 He's here. 2 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Okay. I didn't see 3 him. 4 MR. BURGESS: This is a resolution 5 authorizing to enter into negotiations. Bill, are 6 you the sole inheritor? 7 MR. YACKEYONNY: I own half of it. 8 Some of the others were supposed to have been 9 here, but they didn't make it. 10 MR. BURGESS: Just generally, do they 11 agree? 12 MR. YACKEYONNY: Uh-huh. They put me 13 kind of in charge of it. I've been after this for 14 three years. 15 MR. BURGESS: Gentlemen, we have a 16 resolution before us to enter into negotiations 17 with Mr. Yackeyonny and other family owners. 18 There's a map here. 19 MR. TIPPECONNIE: This goes along 20 Little Beaver Creek, doesn't it? 21 MR. YACKEYONNY: Yes. 22 MR. BURGESS: Tract Number 490. 23 MR. HENSON: Is that the only one, 24 152 acres? 25 MR. BURGESS: That's the only one, 16 1 Bill? 2 MR. YACKEYONNY: Yeah. 3 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Is there mineral 4 rights associated with this? 5 MR. HENSON: We asked for mineral 6 rights and surface rights. 7 MR. BURGESS: Bill, you're aware that 8 the nation would like to include the mineral 9 rights in this? 10 MR. YACKEYONNY: Yeah. 11 MR. BURGESS: Okay. 12 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Very good. 13 MR. BURGESS: So gentlemen, the 14 resolution is referring to this land. 15 MR. HENSON: This is just to go into 16 negotiations, right? 17 MR. BURGESS: Correct. 18 MR. HENSON: I make that motion to 19 approve. 20 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: I second that 21 motion. 22 MR. BURGESS: Motion to approve 23 negotiations by Mr. Henson, second by 24 Mr. Wauahdooah. All those in favor signify by 25 saying "aye". 17 1 (Aye.) 2 MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same 3 sign. All those abstain, same sign. 4 MR. NARCOMEY: Nay. 5 MR. BURGESS: One nay. 6 We have Resolution 158-10. This is 7 to amend the Comanche Nation Dangerous Drug Act. 8 Will you come forward, Vern? 9 MR. GRIFFIN: What this does is adds 10 to Dangerous Drug Act the synthetic marijuana 11 products we are finding increasingly. Since 12 they're not identified currently in our act, and 13 the State of Oklahoma has also done similar action 14 to identify the synthetic marijuana into the act. 15 It came to our attention probably about four 16 months ago when Fort Sill was getting and 17 increasingly having a lot of problems with this 18 product and soldiers using it. When they were 19 questioned, they said they were finding it through 20 our smoke shops. I know the tax commission has 21 acted upon the distribution. Now I'm asking that 22 we also identify it on our criminal side so we can 23 act upon it criminally. 24 MR. HENSON: I'll make the motion to 25 approve. 18 1 MR. NARCOMEY: Second. 2 MR. WHITEWOLF: Vern, what is 3 synthetic marijuana? 4 MR. GRIFFIN: Chemically they spray 5 tobacco products to get the same effect as if you 6 would smoke marijuana. 7 MR. HENSON: It's something you can 8 buy over the shelves. It's not legal to do that. 9 We're making it illegal. 10 MR. BURGESS: Attorneys, do y'all 11 want to make a statement on this or anything? 12 Because we feel that we're not infringing on 13 anybody's civil rights when it's purchased 14 elsewhere. We just don't want it being sold. It 15 wouldn't be a criminal act if we distributed this 16 on any of our trust properties. Are we going to 17 infringe on anybody's civil rights? 18 MR. NORMAN: No, sir. And as of 19 November 1st, it became illegal to partake in 20 those substances in the state of Oklahoma. There 21 was a gap in the law where a new substance that's 22 been designed, it's a synthetic product, and all 23 of the states are having to go back and amend 24 their laws in order to address this particular 25 concern, and the tribes as well. So this just 19 1 closes that gap so that you don't have a product 2 that has marijuana-like effects on individuals 3 available for sale over the counter within your 4 jurisdiction. 5 MR. WAHADOOAH: Mr. Chairman, I'd 6 just like to announce to the audience some of the 7 names this product is. 8 (Discussion held off the record.) 9 MR. BURGESS: Just to remind all of 10 our folks that if somebody has that nickname, tell 11 them to change their nickname. I see a lot of 12 nicknames in here. 13 Motion made by Mr. Henson. Second? 14 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Clyde. 15 MR. BURGESS: Clyde seconded it. All 16 those in favor signify by saying "aye". 17 (Aye.) 18 MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same 19 sign. All those abstain, same sign. The ayes 20 have it. 21 We have a resolution before us, 22 ladies and gentlemen, that involves our Comanche 23 Nation News. We have it titled Comanche Nation 24 News censorship, but the resolution is actually a 25 non-censorship policy on our news. Several 20 1 nations have passed such a resolution on their 2 newspapers before. Those newspapers that have 3 passed this resolution did so because they ran 4 into some kind of I'll say political interference 5 from their leadership, but we don't have that 6 here. It's just a good measure for us because we 7 need to look at the potential of our newspaper 8 earning income on its own via subscriptions and 9 sales. 10 Currently we're passing the 11 newsletter out to over 9,000 individuals who I'll 12 say subscribe to it, and we mail it out to them. 13 And that can become a moneymaker in itself. The 14 reason we're looking at doing this is to support 15 our membership in the Native American Journalists 16 Association and to downplay some of the cost that 17 the Internet has given to our nation that we 18 censor the news. Specifically, that I've been 19 accused of censoring the newsletter, and I am not 20 censoring the newsletter. I don't even get to 21 edit my own articles sometimes. They come in late 22 and they don't bother with it, they just run it. 23 So we don't want that negativity out 24 there. Other people have a personal opinion, 25 that's fine. They spread it via the Internet, and 21 1 the non-Indian world kind of believes it, and half 2 the Indian world believes it, too, until the news 3 is different. So this resolution says that the 4 Comanche Nation Newsletter is not censored by any 5 arm of the government. And in fact, the hope and 6 desire here is to have our newsletter earning 7 income both on the Web and in the print, but in 8 the future the newspaper could be spun off into 9 private business, it could be self-supporting and 10 truly have the journalistic ethic of being without 11 the control of any governing body. 12 It may not happen real soon, but the 13 Navajo Nation News, they did that to their 14 newspaper. It's profitable, it makes a go of it. 15 Fort Peck, it had some difficulties. The 16 community demanded the newspaper have no intrusion 17 by the government. They passed a resolution and, 18 sadly to say, the newspaper was folded down once 19 they spun it off independently. I think it's 20 still that way. I don't know if Paula would know 21 that. 22 But several tribes believe in their 23 freedom of the press, as does this tribe. We 24 believe in it so much so we take it to heart 25 here. When someone says you can't, we get up and 22 1 shout them down. You do have that right to speak, 2 but you cannot be libelous, slanderous or 3 defamatory in your speech either. That's general 4 law. So this resolution states we support freedom 5 of the press issues here in Indian Country. I 6 should say Comanche Country. 7 They're also quoting the code of 8 ethics established by the Society of Professional 9 Journalists. We have guidelines established, we 10 have letters of support from our editor, Joleene 11 Schonchin, a letter of support from Rhonda 12 LaBaldo, president of the Native American Journal 13 Association, a letter of support from Mr. Tim 14 Arviso of Navajo Times, and a letter of support 15 from the Society of Professional Journalism, their 16 executive director, Joseph D. Skeel. 17 So the resolution will read: 18 "Whereas, the Comanche Nation Constitution's 19 Article X, Section 1, Bill of Rights, states all 20 members of the Comanche Nation shall enjoy without 21 hindrance freedom of worship, conscience, speech, 22 press, assembly and association and 23 "Whereas, the Comanche Nation News 24 newspaper is the official communication of the 25 Comanche Nation to the tribal members, and has an 23 1 established Code of Ethics of the Society of 2 Professional Journalists, and newspaper guidelines 3 which is followed within the Comanche Nation 4 Public Information Office. 5 "Therefore be it resolved that the 6 Comanche Business Committee hereby allows The 7 Comanche Nation News newspaper be free of all 8 censorship and influence from any tribal official, 9 elected or appointed, from members of the Comanche 10 Nation, or nontribal individuals and entities." 11 MR. HENSON: Question. I know at one 12 time the newspaper printed an article from one of 13 our Comanche members that ran down other members. 14 That was a big concern of mine at the time it 15 happened. I don't see anywhere in here that this 16 will say that they won't do that. That's not very 17 good taste for the newspaper to print such things 18 like that. 19 MR. BURGESS: Well, under that area, 20 that code of ethics, it says be accountable, and 21 that's where the journalist association and their 22 requirement at the bottom of that page. 23 MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: Who is the final 24 editor, or who has the final say-so? The editor, 25 I'm guessing, is J.J. 24 1 MR. BURGESS: She will be following 2 these guidelines. If it becomes defamatory, 3 slanderous, injurious remarks and all that, the 4 editor has the responsibility to trim those out or 5 tell the individual to rewrite it. That's her 6 decision. 7 MR. NARCOMEY: What prompted this 8 resolution? 9 MR. BURGESS: I think it's all the 10 rumors out there. 11 MS. AITSON: Y'all didn't do this 12 with Lanny Asepermy's letter was going out. There 13 was a lot of slander in there to the Comanche 14 Tribe indirectly and y'all just let it go through. 15 MR. BURGESS: Thank you. 16 MR. NELSON: I'd like to make a 17 statement, if I could. My name is William 18 Nelson. You guys said this was going to be 19 enforced by the editor. Is that the only 20 enforcement of it? 21 MR. BURGESS: Basically by law. If 22 there are slanderous, libelous remarks, things 23 like that that she allows to slide through, it 24 will be her responsibility to see that it doesn't 25 go through. 25 1 MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: But as our 2 employee, we would still be liable. This type of 3 thing takes place in a newspaper that's separated, 4 that's owned by owners and they're there, they 5 make money, and they report the news. It's 6 controversial this way or that, but they're liable 7 for what they print. This is a government 8 newsletter basically what we have. It's not a. -- 9 MR. NELSON: Darrell, do you see it 10 like I do? If it goes to that point, it should go 11 to this body maybe to vote on it to see if it goes 12 through? 13 MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: Are you talking 14 about editing? 15 MR. NELSON: The editor just doesn't 16 know: Man, I don't know if I should run this. 17 MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: That's what I'm 18 concerned about. 19 MR. NELSON: The constitution is 20 clear. You guys can't take no action unless 21 there's five of you. So when it comes to 22 something like that, let's say it's something 23 about our per capita. Let's say it says you're 24 going to get a bunch of money for our per capita 25 and it's not true, but she has to come to you guys 26 1 some way. There's got to be some type of 2 professionalism. 3 MR. BURGESS: That's what this is. 4 MR. NELSON: Actually, it's not. 5 MR. BURGESS: Her professional 6 training and experience would dictate to her to be 7 accountable and that she does act independently. 8 She would have to assume responsibility that hey, 9 this is going to be libelous and slanderous. I'm 10 going to let you, the author, know that, and if 11 you don't want to remove this, then I won't print 12 the article. Because if you don't let me edit it 13 out to remove the libel, slander or defamatory 14 remarks because our code of ethics won't allow 15 that, then I can't print it. But if you're going 16 to allow me to edit it and remove those remarks, 17 then I can print your article. 18 MR. HENSON: Basically what you're 19 saying is the only say-so the CBC would have would 20 be over the editor herself as an employee. 21 MR. BURGESS: Yeah, as an employee. 22 If she feels that something's so hard or it's news 23 that has to be printed but it's not written by 24 her, you know, she has the option to accept it or 25 not or rewrite the story if it's a new story. But 27 1 when it comes to editorial comments -- and 2 Ms. Aitson, your statement is very correct. When 3 I tried to talk to Mr. Asepermy about the need to 4 make it two parts, the accusation was I was 5 censoring. I'm just trying to make room for other 6 articles. It took up an enormous amount of space 7 and it ran for three months. And I'm accused of 8 censoring? 9 He had his say-so, he got to speak, 10 everybody read it. That's not censorship, but it 11 was detrimental to us running ads or running items 12 that could have brought funding to the newspaper. 13 And it was on the Web page for four months, the 14 world got to read it. That's what he wanted, 15 uncensorship, unfettered access to the free 16 press. Regardless if someone else's opinion was 17 different, he got it. 18 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Mr. Chairman, I'd be 19 in favor of endorsing this code of ethics. I see 20 the support letters from other editors and other 21 tribal groups. I see no real harm in this. 22 MR. BURGESS: Yes, Carl? 23 MR. TAHKOPFER: I've got a question 24 here and it's just a question, I don't know, but 25 is it wise to put whenever we get the per cap 28 1 payment and the elder payment in the tribal 2 newspaper? Because at that time, if the gangs and 3 the crooks and the pickpockets, you know, that 4 beat older people up or younger people, they know, 5 and is it wise that they know that type of stuff? 6 That's my question. 7 MR. BURGESS: That's why this year we 8 did not put anything in the paper other than our 9 elders' honoring day and then the prayer breakfast 10 day. That's all we put in the paper. We didn't 11 put any potential release date of the per cap. 12 The general public and our own people know that at 13 Elders' Day, one elder told us yesterday all five 14 kids wait at the four doors or the one window to 15 be the one to escort them to Elders' Day. So this 16 year we're having our elders' banquet here at 17 Woogie Hall. We want people to know bring your 18 one caretaker with you. If there's two of you, if 19 there's one of you, bring one caretaker so we can 20 accommodate you to the meal. 21 And you're right, Carl. Those are 22 the very things we worried about because we didn't 23 publish per cap amount, per cap release date, and 24 the article that we released stated only that the 25 elders' assistance is the same as last year. You 29 1 know, that's all we released so that our elders 2 and that amount, everyone who received it last 3 year know what they got and they're going to get 4 it this year. That's why it's set by the Revenue 5 Allocation Plan, and that's why we didn't want to 6 release it, because some elders said they got 7 robbed at the store, someone stole their purse and 8 they wanted us to replace it all. We just 9 couldn't do that. 10 MRS. HENDRIX: What about the Web? 11 Anybody that listened to you, you gave out the 12 amount of the elders' payment and when it was 13 going to be. You also gave out the per cap and 14 when it was going to be sent out. 15 MR. BURGESS: A lot of our absentee 16 members got there, so they know. 17 MRS. HENDRIX: So does everybody 18 else. What would be the difference in the 19 newspaper that some people don't get when they can 20 get it on the Web? 21 MR. BURGESS: I hope most non-Indians 22 in town don't listen to our Web page. Not our Web 23 page, but the site that's here. 24 MRS. HENDRIX: If they're a gang or 25 something and they want to rob you, they're going 30 1 to look at it. 2 MR. BURGESS: They're going to do it 3 anyway. They know. We can't get around that, but 4 I hope our elders aren't getting robbed by their 5 own family. Yes, Dolores? 6 MS. AITSON: I wanted to say with 7 this per capita payment, you know, elders -- I 8 mean, people would call up here to ask questions 9 and get no answers. But Mr. Asepermy's going and 10 making announcements to different ones that it's 11 going to be this amount, because I talked to a 12 finance officer and he told me this, and I called 13 this one and they told me that. You know, but the 14 members can't get anything. Why is he so up 15 there? Is he a priority to you people? I 16 wouldn't think so, but -- 17 MR. BURGESS: No. We've told the 18 bank and we told enrollment when people call to 19 tell them what the amount is and when we expect it 20 to be mailed. 21 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Mr. Chairman, I make 22 a motion to accept this resolution for the 23 newspaper, that it be free of all censorship and 24 influence, Resolution Number 159-10. 25 MR. BURGESS: Motion made by Mr. Mark 31 1 Wauahdooah to accept. Discussion? 2 MR. HENSON: I'll second that. 3 MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: I'll just state 4 again that it concerns me that this is our 5 newsletter that kind of sends out a positive spin 6 on the nation, informs the people about what's 7 went on, what's coming up, what's taken place. 8 And it just concerns me that it's going to kind of 9 turn into something that it shouldn't be. You 10 know, if you get into these controversial type 11 things, and then the opportunity for J.J. to get 12 in trouble or have something brought against her, 13 or have this, you know, body look at her in a 14 different way. 15 It just concerns me. This seems like 16 something that's separate from the tribal 17 government and funding. Something like Camp 18 Crier. They do this type of business. They'll 19 report, but they can report on whatever they 20 want. They have no ties. 21 MR. HENSON: I've got a question for 22 you. What legality would this have in them having 23 no censorship to the tribe? Could we be sued for 24 something she puts in there? 25 MR. NORMAN: Yeah, it is a 32 1 government-owned and operated newspaper, so if 2 there were mistakes or a problem and a resulting 3 lawsuit, the nation most likely would be named. 4 You would bear the responsibility for it because 5 it's a government-funded and operated newspaper. 6 So the concern, the legal concern is valid. 7 MS. ATTOCKNIE: But then, that, in 8 turn, to answer Darrell, in my opinion -- 9 MS. MCDANIEL: I've got my hand up. 10 MS. ATTOCKNIE: I'm sorry. Is that 11 even J.J., under the guidelines that are provided 12 through this resolution, has that opportunity 13 before it gets printed to contact whoever sent in 14 the article to let them know that there are 15 statements in your letter or article that can be 16 considered libel, libelous, defamatory, et cetera, 17 and then give that writer the opportunity to 18 change it. 19 MR. BURGESS: Correct. 20 MS. ATTOCKNIE: And if they don't 21 change it because of the guidelines that have to 22 be abided by, she doesn't have to print it. But 23 when and if she should do that, print this letter, 24 and it is libelous, and any individual that it is 25 detrimental to, then they can sue the tribe. But 33 1 that, again, goes back to her own work ethic. And 2 that I believe I'm confident in Ms. Schonchin's 3 ability, as long as she has been working with the 4 newsletter, as well as her relationship and 5 activities with that organization. 6 MR. BURGESS: NAJA? 7 MS. ATTOCKNIE: Yes, journalism. I 8 don't think that she would allow that to happen. 9 MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: I don't think 10 she's had to deal with this type of thing 11 necessarily up to this point. She would have to 12 go out and substantiate those facts that are given 13 in a -- that's what reporters have to do. They're 14 libel in that frame. I don't think she's really 15 had to go and do that yet. I'm not saying she 16 can't do it, it just concerns me. 17 MR. BURGESS: Identify yourself, 18 please, Eleanor. 19 MS. MCDANIEL: She knows me. Anyway, 20 there's such a thing as a disclaimer. Even Lawton 21 Constitution provides a disclaimer when they print 22 an editorial. And I feel just like Phyllis, that 23 Mrs. Schonchin has professional, you know, 24 credibility. She knows what she's doing. So if 25 in event there is an inflammatory article, you 34 1 know, I know she's not going to print it as the 2 tribe's word, but, you know, say, for example, I 3 wanted to write an editorial. I'm not going to be 4 nice to you or anybody else if I'm going to write 5 an editorial. I'm going to tell the truth. 6 So if she prints it, if she's going 7 to print my editorial and I feel that's a part of 8 freedom of speech, that she can do just like 9 Lawton does. They provide a disclaimer, and so 10 does Camp Crier. They printed some of my 11 editorials that we weren't very nice, and they 12 provided a disclaimer. So, you know, you guys are 13 creating a lot of problems before they even exist, 14 and you're afraid of your own damn shadow. 15 MR. BURGESS: Watch your language. 16 We don't need to go that route. 17 MS. MCDANIEL: Freedom of speech. 18 MR. BURGESS: Thank you. Motion's 19 been made by Mr. Wauahdooah. Did you have a 20 statement, Mark? You were going to say 21 something? 22 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: No, not at all. 23 MR. BURGESS: Did you still want to 24 second that? 25 MR. HENSON: Yeah. 35 1 MR. BURGESS: You can vote it down. 2 Motion made by Mr. Wauahdooah, second by 3 Mr. Henson. All those in favor signify by saying 4 "aye". 5 (Aye.) 6 MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same 7 sign. All those abstain, same sign. 8 MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: Nay. 9 MR. BURGESS: Three ayes, one nay. 10 All those abstain? 11 MR. NARCOMEY: I abstain. 12 MR. BURGESS: Three to one. Motion 13 passes. 14 There needs to be a correction on 15 Resolution 160-10. The name is Honenaker. It 16 needs to have the correct name. 17 MR. PARKER: Mr. Chairman, can I make 18 a comment? Towards that newspaper, I was going to 19 write an article about a real estate company in 20 town doing kind of shady business. And when I 21 brought it up to J.J., she had the foresight 22 already to mention, yes, that's good, people need 23 to be aware of what these people are doing, but, 24 you know, write it in a way that it's not 25 slanderous or libel or anything like that. So 36 1 she's already aware in her position, you know, 2 looking out for the tribe and looking out for 3 individuals. You know, hey, you know, write it, 4 get your point across, but don't be, you know, 5 ugly or slanderous or anything like that. 6 So that's before even this came up. 7 So Mr. Kosechequetah, she's already in her 8 professionalism, she's been doing it a long time. 9 She told me and she's right. 10 MR. HENSON: Could you identify 11 yourself? 12 MR. BURGESS: Jerry, would you state 13 your name? 14 MR. PARKER: Jerry Parker. 15 MR. BURGESS: Thanks, Jerry. 16 MR. NARCOMEY: I think we've got a 17 mistake on our agenda here, Mr. Chairman. We got 18 two resolutions 160-10. The one in our book, 19 161-10, has something to do with our per cap. 20 MR. TIPPECONNIE: 161-10 has to do 21 with Revenue Allocation Plan. M 22 MR. NARCOMEY: Okay. But here -- 23 MR. TIPPECONNIE: 160 has to do with 24 land acquisition. We have to read this. 25 Let me explain, first of all, a 37 1 little bit about this one. The resolutions coming 2 up is something unique to the Comanche Nation and 3 something very unique to the Southern Plains 4 Agency and regional office, what can happen in a 5 probate. When there's a probate hearing, if an 6 individual in advance of that hearing knows 7 they're an heir in that probate hearing, they can 8 come to the nation and say I would like to sell my 9 land or negotiate with the Comanche Nation to sell 10 my land. So it can be done within the probate 11 hearing. 12 So this is a first for the Comanche 13 Nation, it's a first for the Southern Plains. 14 They've never done it before, neither has the 15 region. So we went to the hearing in this case, 16 Gloria Marie Haumpy was the probate, and the heirs 17 wanted to sell that to the nation. So we went up 18 there, which is very good. It's a quick 19 expeditious way to complete a purchase. You go 20 into the probate and then the judge renders a 21 decision acknowledging that we are the potential 22 purchaser. But given that, we have to go through 23 two ways of doing it, an actual purchase 24 arrangement and a settlement agreement. 25 So we're going through a settlement 38 1 action on this one. So this will be conducted in 2 a shorter term than a negotiated sale. And it's 3 very unique, and it's something to think about for 4 all tribal members. If they feel that something 5 that's being willed to them and they would like it 6 to be conveyed or sold at some point and they 7 would like it to go to the nation, they can 8 consider that in a probate hearing. And it's 9 something very trustfully, hopefully, more 10 expeditious. 11 MR. WHITEWOLF: What's the reason for 12 so much haste? 13 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Well, negotiated 14 sales take quite a while. Negotiated sales 15 require appraisals for one thing, and we have to 16 go through the office of the special trustee to 17 request an appraisal. Right now, as an example, 18 the office of the special trustee, who does the 19 appraisals now, not the BIA, they do the 20 appraisals. Right now they have a big 21 circumstance at hand because what they're 22 evaluating or appraising right now are farming and 23 grazing leases. So they're spending all their 24 time right now on farming and grazing leases. 25 If the nation is interested in a 39 1 property, there should be a reason that we have an 2 interest, so that's why we would like to consider 3 purchase. Okay, in some cases the land may be 4 very worthy for some quick actions or development 5 or use by the nation. So that's a time that we 6 would think it's very quick to do it. But, again, 7 I go back to the fact that if the nation has an 8 interest in the property and it looks like it has 9 some advantage economically or such to the nation, 10 then this is one way it can be expedited, it could 11 be done quicker. 12 MR. WHITEWOLF: What's the purpose 13 for this land? 14 MR. TIPPECONNIE: This land is -- do 15 you want to comment? 16 MR. BURGESS: Go ahead and comment. 17 MR. TIPPECONNIE: This land is to the 18 west of -- south of Mountain Park, it's north of 19 Snyder, and it's above 62. So we feel, the nation 20 feels now that we need to be looking at economic 21 opportunities to the west as close as we can to 22 our reservation boundary and as close as we can to 23 places like Altus so we can reach that prospective 24 market to do things such as our smoke shops, such 25 as our convenience stores we're thinking about, 40 1 such as gaming. So those are the kind of things 2 that give us an advantage economically. 3 So we're thinking of moving that way, 4 moving to the west, because we have that market 5 out there, Altus. And, of course, you can even go 6 to Vernon, Texas through Frederick and all of 7 that. So we feel if we have property out there 8 and we can get on top of that and acquire it 9 quickly, it helps us move on that potential 10 development. 11 MS. ATTOCKNIE: Also, TERO can reach 12 even further. 13 MR. NELSON: I had a question. Judge 14 Ray and Judge Ware, they approved this? Is it 15 unprecedented? 16 MR. TIPPECONNIE: It's a first. 17 Under law you can do it. When they had the Indian 18 Reform Act, it authorized such an action. So we 19 can go into court if those persons are willing, 20 you know, prospective heirs, to do that. The 21 judge acknowledges that, he asks those principals 22 if that's okay, and then when he comes forward 23 with a decision, then yes. Judge Ray in the case, 24 Administrative Judge Ray was there, he convened 25 this, and it was his hearing. 41 1 His decision is forthcoming, we 2 haven't received it yet, but he's already 3 acknowledged, yes, we're the party. We have to 4 have this resolution endorsing the fact that we 5 want to pursue that through the probate hearing. 6 He has to have it in his hand. That's why we're 7 acting on this today. 8 MR. NELSON: Robert, if this all goes 9 through, would you be able to put it in our 10 Comanche Nation Newsletter that this happened? 11 Because there's a lot of people -- you know, 12 Anadarko, you deal with Ms. Roundface up there in 13 the realty department. I've got a case right now 14 where a relative, he had a will, everything was 15 ready to go, but for some reason or another, if 16 any of us die it will say KCA. It just doesn't 17 say Comanche allotment. 18 And the problem with this is it seems 19 like -- I hate to say this, and I guess I will say 20 it. It seems like the Kiowas get preference over 21 the Apaches and Comanches when it comes to probate 22 hearings. It's been 14 long months, and when you 23 do a probate, if you have a will it should all be 24 automatic. It should be two or three months, but 25 for some reason we have to deal with this KCA 42 1 effect on our probates. I would hope that the CBC 2 is open-minded and brings a realty division down 3 here, you know, so we can deal with the 93-638 4 contract. A lot of tribes do it, little tribes do 5 it, and our probates would be faster. But this is 6 good. And if it does go through, Robert, I would 7 hope you would tell the membership about it, 8 because I have never heard of such a thing. 9 MR. TIPPECONNIE: It's really a neat 10 thing for us. Excuse me just a minute. I'll make 11 one other comment. On some occasions, there are 12 those individuals who have no descendants or 13 heirs. When those probate hearings are pending, 14 it's smart of the nation to be sensitive to that. 15 Like you say, in a realty sense. So we're looking 16 at those critically, because in some cases we can 17 come up and be asked to considered as, you know, 18 the party of interest there. Because if there's 19 no heirs, no one appears. 20 And sometimes, in some cases in the 21 past with other tribal lands, not ours, but out of 22 this Southern Plains, it's gone to non-Indians. 23 When it goes to non-Indians, it can't remain in 24 trust. It causes a predicament. So with a 25 certain tribe, they can go up and say we want to 43 1 be considered as recipients of this land, 2 especially when there's no heirs or no one, and 3 occasionally that occurs. 4 MR. WHITEWOLF: You know, Mr. Nelson 5 touched on the very thing that I was thinking 6 about. You know, our constitution is federally 7 recognized, but the KCA has recognition with the 8 treaty. You know, we don't -- the Comanches or 9 Kiowas or Apaches don't have a treaty with the 10 government, it's the KCA. So what he's talking 11 about, it probably needs a little more 12 understanding. 13 MR. TIPPECONNIE: I agree with you 14 when it comes to matters of the reservation at 15 large. Take, for example, water. When we look at 16 water, which we're looking at it more critically 17 now because it's getting precious to everyone. 18 Texas wants it. We have to look at it with the 19 other tribes. It's KCA, Kiowa, Comanche, Apache 20 reservation, it's KCA water. So we have to look 21 at it that way. But, then, of course, an allottee 22 will be Comanche, Kiowa or Apache. The allottees 23 have water rights on their own, you know, on their 24 own trust properties. But there's other lands 25 that are jointly the ownership of the three 44 1 nations. And, also, I say there's water rights in 2 the whole area of the original reservation. And 3 those haven't been quantified, they haven't been 4 qualified, so that's something in the future. 5 MS. MCDANIEL: You're getting off the 6 subject. But anyway, probate, the law already 7 provides the tribe to receive lands when there are 8 no heirs. The law already provides for that. But 9 that law does not give you, as the CBC, the right 10 to spend our tribal money arbitrarily buying 11 land. So that's what you're trying to do. You're 12 trying to buy this land through probate. But we 13 -- you know, the tribal government or the tribal 14 council is the only body that authorizes you to 15 spend money, and we don't want you to arbitrarily 16 spend our money buying land on -- that comes 17 available just when you decide to. You know, so 18 how are you going to get an approval from the 19 tribal council to purchase land? That's going to 20 be millions of dollars there, I'm sure. 21 MR. TIPPECONNIE: No, I don't think 22 this one will be that. But the point you're 23 talking about, the tribal membership, the voting 24 membership, that is the council, all the voting 25 members. They're presented a budget, and part of 45 1 the budget is land acquisition, to purchase land. 2 And, yes, under that land acquisition dollar, we 3 should -- we have a strategy, so to speak. What's 4 the priority? Priorities are these kind of lands 5 with high potential. So that has been approved by 6 the membership. So we work under the 7 authorization of that approved budget, and all 8 budgets are like that. You can take -- whatever 9 they are. They develop a plan once it's approved 10 or they may have them concurrent to the approval. 11 MS. MCDANIEL: But you're not 12 authorized to spend anything over and above that, 13 and you have. 14 MR. BURGESS: That's in the past. 15 The authorization we have by resolution was to 16 only offer appraisal price with minerals. That's 17 why we asked Mr. Yackeyonny earlier today, do you 18 understand that includes minerals, and he said 19 yes. And we asked him again, all your relatives 20 are in agreement, and he said yes, they're in 21 agreement to sell this land at appraisal price, 22 which would include minerals. So we're trying not 23 to go to those exorbitant prices that were paid in 24 the past. We're sticking to the appraisal price 25 and that's fair market price and that's in the 46 1 budget. 2 MS. MCDANIEL: You have to stay in 3 the budget. 4 MR. TIPPECONNIE: You're correct, we 5 have to stay in the budget. 6 MR. REDELK: Robert, I have a 7 question. The last time we discussed this 8 particular property, there was an issue of 9 location on the acreage that was going to be 10 purchased. Has that been cleared up? 11 MR. TIPPECONNIE: The acreage is in 12 the will. It's 40 acres. Now, we have to work on 13 some things there because other -- it's a 160-acre 14 tract. So what we're hearing, and it hasn't been 15 qualified, is that some of the others are willing 16 to sell their part of it, too. But the only part 17 we're working on now in the probate hearing is 18 that of this one person. 19 MR. REDELK: That 40 acres? 20 MR. BURGESS: That 40 acres. 21 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yes, 40 acres. 22 MR. REDELK: Is it identified within 23 that quarter section? 24 MR. TIPPECONNIE: No. 25 MR. REDELK: It needs to be. 47 1 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yes. 2 MR. BURGESS: That's the survey part 3 that has to be done, and they understand what 4 corner section, we want the corner, and they 5 understand that. 6 MS. NELSON: It's called a 7 partition. When you go to that partition, Robert, 8 you know, if you guys are going to do this through 9 that probate, which is really unprecedented, that 10 that needs to be spelled out before you guys get 11 there. 12 MR. BURGESS: Well, the judge 13 accepted it, the judge is in agreement with it, 14 and that's possible. Because when they changed 15 the law, they made it possible to do it during 16 probate. 17 MS. AITSON: My name is Dolores 18 Aitson. I was wanting to know, this property, 19 where is it located, the home? 20 MR. BURGESS: About a quarter mile 21 south of Mountain Park and about a mile and a 22 quarter west. 23 MS. AITSON: What are the thoughts of 24 what you're going to do with it? 25 MR. BURGESS: One of the things was 48 1 we have a lot of membership in our casino that 2 come from that area. So putting in a small smoke 3 shop, convenience store. They're going to ask. 4 They want to know. It's out. 5 MR. PADDYAKER: Mr. Chairman, my name 6 is Joe Paddyaker, I have a question. This land, 7 I'm assuming, has to be, from what you're saying, 8 within the reservation? 9 MR. BURGESS: Correct. 10 MS. PADDYAKER: I'm from on the other 11 side of Duncan, and I have a lot of land there. 12 The mineral deal is out of the question for me, 13 you know. Anyway, that's all I wanted -- it has 14 to be in the reservation? 15 MR. BURGESS: We prefer that it is, 16 yes. It doesn't have to be, but we prefer it, 17 because then it can go back into trust more 18 easily. 19 MR. TIPPECONNIE: If it's not in 20 trust -- if it's within the reservation 21 boundaries, there's that opportunity to bring it 22 into trust. If it's outside the boundaries, no. 23 It has to remain as fee, but there's options, too, 24 that we could attempt. If it's in an aboriginal, 25 beyond the reservation, but aboriginal territory 49 1 where Comanches, like, all the way down to Mexico, 2 all the way to Wyoming. 3 MR. BURGESS: Would it be within the 4 Cross Timbers region, like I-35? That sits right 5 at the edge of Cross Timbers. 6 MR. PADDYAKER: It's just east of 7 Duncan. 8 MR. BURGESS: Is it east of I-35? 9 MS. PADDYAKER: Yes. 10 MR. BURGESS: It's outside of 11 aboriginal territory. We've always agreed that 12 the Cross Timbers was our eastern boundary. 13 MR. PADDYAKER: This is Gloria's 14 part, see. That's why it's that way. It has to 15 state within the resolution that we're -- it sites 16 the case number of the probate hearing in the 17 resolution, so it has to say the estate of Gloria 18 Marie Honenaker with the case number. It has to 19 do that. 20 MR. REDELK: What is the spelling on 21 that? 22 MR. TIPPECONNIE: H-O-N-E-N-A-K-E-R. 23 I don't know. It's probably something with the 24 ear. 25 MR. REDELK: Oh, I see. 50 1 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Something like 2 that. 3 MR. BURGESS: They only have it 4 spelled as Honenaker. 5 MR. REDELK: I still am hung up on 6 the idea -- this resolution states that we're 7 going to purchase it? 8 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Her interest. 9 MR. REDELK: That interest? 10 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yeah. 11 MR. REDELK: But I would like to see 12 that it's stipulated that before purchase is made, 13 that that petition is made, also. I don't want to 14 get into a situation where other members of that 15 family get into a fight on location, and that's a 16 real possibility without the location being 17 identified. 18 MR. BURGESS: No, it's been 19 identified, they agreed to it. The quicker we buy 20 it, the sooner the partition can take place 21 because we are now party to it. 22 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Well, what the 23 judge has to do, and Ron is raising -- 24 MR. WHITEWOLF: It's not divided 25 yet? 51 1 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Ron is raising a 2 good question. The interest is an undivided 3 interest. And what he says, if we're to buy an 4 undivided interest, he'd like to see that that was 5 identified with all the 160 landowners' okay to 6 say the 40 acres is right here. 7 MR. WHITEWOLF: You have to have it 8 in one person. 9 MR. TIPPECONNIE: You can have one 10 person. But that's a matter of partitioning, 11 too. 12 MS. AITSON: But usually the Bureau 13 just designates where they want. I mean, if 14 they're going to partition it, they will partition 15 where they want to. I mean, you don't have any 16 say-so. 17 MR. BURGESS: No, as the judge has 18 explained it, the partitioning will come quickly 19 because everybody's agreed to the corner that we 20 want. 21 MS. AITSON: You've already picked 22 it? 23 MR. BURGESS: We've already picked 24 it, they were here, they've heard from us and they 25 understand it and have agreed that that's the 52 1 corner they will sell to us of all the acres. 2 MS. AITSON: I hope it goes that way 3 for you. 4 MR. TIPPECONNIE: We have to be sure 5 that all those land owners certify that. They 6 have to sign to that effect. 7 MR. TAHAH: Do we have that in 8 writing? 9 MR. TIPPECONNIE: We're still working 10 on the whole process. 11 MR. TAHAH: How can we purchase 12 something if we don't have it in writing? 13 MR. BURGESS: Your question is, the 14 resolution has to be passed and forwarded to the 15 Bureau. That starts the writing process, and then 16 the judge is in the middle and understands the 40 17 acres we want, if the family's letter goes forward 18 to the judge that they all agreed to sell it, and 19 then the partition will take place. It starts 20 with our resolution. 21 MR. ESCHITI: You're voting on 22 something you don't know what you're buying. 23 MR. BURGESS: Yes, we do. 24 MR. ESCHITI: You do in your mind. 25 MR. BURGESS: I'm sorry, sir, we know 53 1 what we're buying. We're buying 40 acres of 160. 2 MR. ESCHITI: You're buying 40 acres, 3 but you don't know where. 4 MR. BURGESS: Yes, we do. We've 5 identified where we want. 6 MS. AITSON: How many heirs are on 7 there? 8 MR. BURGESS: Five or six. 9 MR. TIPPECONNIE: There's only three 10 on this area. On the 40 acres, three. 11 MS. MCDANIEL: Why can't you just let 12 them go through probate and then buy it when it's 13 all said and done? 14 MR. BURGESS: Because we want to do 15 something quickly, and this is a lot quicker than 16 waiting for probate to finish. 17 MS. MCDANIEL: Y'all are always 18 trying to do a rush job. 19 MR. BURGESS: Excuse me, we have a 20 motion. 21 MS. ATTOCKNIE: One of the things I 22 heard to begin with when you started approaching 23 on this subject, you said it was the family that 24 came to y'all first. 25 MR. BURGESS: Correct. 54 1 MS. ATTOCKNIE: It's not you guys 2 going out looking for land that we can jump on. 3 It's the family that came to y'all and asked you 4 if you would consider doing this. Then from there 5 is where you proceeded to where we are now. 6 MR. BURGESS: Yes. 7 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yeah, we wouldn't 8 have gone to the court except they wanted to sell 9 that. We wouldn't have. 10 MR. BURGESS: The family asked us to 11 do this in an expeditious manner. That's what 12 we've done. 13 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Time to move. 14 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Let's learn 15 from our mistakes from that Kerchee incident from 16 years ago. 17 MR. BURGESS: True. The family came 18 to us in August or September. This is now 19 November. We've gone through all of this and now 20 we see the process is quicker, it helps the 21 family, it helps us to developing our economic 22 base over there. So we have Resolution 160-10. 23 Motion? 24 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Mr. Chairman, I make 25 a motion we accept this. 55 1 MR. BURGESS: Motion made by 2 Mr. Wauahdooah. 3 MR. HENSON: I'll second. 4 MR. BURGESS: Second by Mr. Henson. 5 MR. HENSON: Let me get this right. 6 This is the land we're going to put a smoke shop 7 on? 8 MR. BURGESS: Uh-huh. 9 MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: It's for our 10 smoke shop. 11 MR. TIPPECONNIE: We passed a 12 resolution before on this. 13 MR. HENSON: This land, just for your 14 information, is being approved to be purchased to 15 build economic base for the Comanche Nation. 16 MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: Right. 17 MR. HENSON: That's the purpose for 18 purchasing this land. 19 MS. AITSON: Would you use the mike, 20 please? I can't hear you, I'm sorry. 21 MR. HENSON: The land is being 22 purchased for the building of an economic base of 23 the Comanche Nation. We've done a lot of 24 consideration. We're trying to build an economic 25 base for the Comanche Nation and you know what 56 1 that means. It means a little bit more per cap. 2 Our economic base right now is gaming board. 3 And as everyone knows, the whole 4 United States right now is in what you'd call a 5 recession. They're saying that it's not, but 6 every casino in the United States is down, every 7 one. We're holding our own right now, and we're 8 not all the way down to the bottom. So what we're 9 trying to do, what the CBC is trying to do, is 10 look into building the economic base in which we 11 don't have to depend just strictly on the 12 casinos. This is part of that plan. 13 MS. MCDANIEL: We know what economic 14 development has done for our tribe, that's why 15 we're getting -- that's why we're receiving only 16 800 this year. So we know what economic 17 development has done for our nation, and we're 18 tired of it. So I don't understand how you guys 19 can spend all this money on buying land and we're 20 only getting $800 in per cap. That's not economic 21 development. 22 MR. BURGESS: We have a motion on the 23 floor and a second. All those in favor signify by 24 saying "aye". 25 (Aye.) 57 1 MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same 2 sign. All those abstain, same sign. 3 MR. NARCOMEY: Nay, no. 4 MR. BURGESS: One no. 5 MR. ESCHITI: Mr. Chairman, how much 6 is this property going to cost us? 7 MR. HENSON: Don't know. 8 MR. BURGESS: The average is $1,200 9 an acre. That's including mineral rights. 10 MS. PADDYAKER: That is cheap. That 11 is a very good price for land. 12 MR. ESCHITI: Has it already been 13 negotiated for the 40 acres? 14 MR. BURGESS: It comes back at the 15 appraisal price, and we already know what the 16 appraisal is for that area. We've done our 17 research on that. Thank you. 18 Next item, 161-10, Resolution 19 161-10. This is approving a levy of garnishment 20 against per cap, per capita payment plans. Under 21 federal court writ, meaning the federal court is 22 telling us to hold back the garnishment of a per 23 cap payment from an individual basically for child 24 support for other federal or state court 25 infractions. Is that right? 58 1 MR. BURSON: This particular one is 2 just for restitution for federal criminal 3 defendants that have been convicted of some 4 property crime and they have to pay restitution to 5 the victim. 6 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yes. 7 MR. BURSON: Now, the next one is for 8 child support. 9 MR. TIPPECONNIE: 62, that's the next 10 one. This is 161. 11 MR. HENSON: I'll make a motion to 12 approve. 13 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Those have been 14 ordered by the court to return moneys. 15 MR. BURGESS: Okay. 16 MR. HENSON: I made the motion. 17 MR. BURGESS: Motion made by 18 Mr. Henson to approve. Second? 19 MR. NELSON: Mr. Chairman, I got a 20 question on this. It seems like -- don't we lose 21 our sovereignty whenever we're always going after 22 our own people, be it resolving a loan, be it all 23 these other garnishments? I mean, aren't we 24 defeating the purpose in a sense? 25 MR. BURGESS: Actually, no. In fact, 59 1 I recall getting a phone call last year from a 2 company in Texas trying to repossess a car from an 3 individual who told them they couldn't take the 4 car because it resides on trust land, and those 5 individuals did not even live on trust land or 6 here in Oklahoma. So people who make commitments 7 or commit crimes have a responsibility to fulfill 8 their responsibility of law infraction or child 9 support. We're not giving up our sovereignty. 10 This is an individual, his responsibility or her 11 responsibility to make restitution. That's their 12 responsibility. This is not an act of us giving 13 up our sovereignty over anything. Attorneys, do 14 y'all want to explain things maybe any further? 15 MR. NORMAN: We agree with you. It's 16 the individual's responsibility. If they've been 17 adjudged to require to pay something back, and if 18 part of their wages or salaries or income comes 19 from per cap, that per cap has got to be used to 20 pay back the justice system. There are some 21 instances where individuals are prosecuted for 22 property crimes against Comanche Nation and they 23 entered into plea agreements which they would 24 provide restitution to the nation. So this is 25 taking the individual per cap that they would 60 1 otherwise be entitled to and making sure that it 2 is returned to the nation. 3 In addition to that, with respect to 4 the sovereignty issue, tribes are not able to 5 raise sovereign immunity against the federal 6 government. They are considered under the Supreme 7 Court precedent to be domestic dependant 8 sovereigns, so they can't raise -- they can raise 9 that issue against states and individuals, but 10 they can't raise it against the federal 11 government. This will smooth things out so that 12 the nation is not in the position of being held in 13 contempt of court by a federal judge for not 14 adhering to the garnishment order of that court. 15 MR. NELSON: Okay, Mr. Norman, is 16 that language in our RAP that we have adopted? 17 MR. NORMAN: There's not anything 18 that prohibits it within the Revenue Allocation 19 Plan. 20 MR. NELSON: Should it be written in 21 there? 22 MR. NORMAN: I don't think it would 23 hurt anything if that were added, if something 24 specific were added. 25 MR. NELSON: Because it's coming to 61 1 this body of seven to pass a resolution to adhere 2 to it. 3 MR. NORMAN: Well, what happens, for 4 instance in the scenario I gave you, if the nation 5 does not make those moneys available, then the 6 U.S. Attorney's office will bring contempt charges 7 on the nation. 8 MR. NELSON: So don't you think it 9 should be in the wording of the RAP? Specifically 10 the new one that's supposed to be being written or 11 if it is written already? 12 MR. NORMAN: It wouldn't hurt it, but 13 it's not necessary, because the federal law which 14 authorizes them to come after the nation in a 15 contempt proceeding supercedes the Revenue 16 Allocation Plan. 17 MS. MCDANIEL: But has anyone come 18 after the tribe with contempt because one tribal 19 member couldn't pay their bills? That's why I'm 20 saying y'all create these laws and you're going to 21 have our people suffer the consequences because 22 this body up here is deciding for our people. Let 23 the people take care of their own responsi- 24 bilities. Don't tax or commit their per cap for 25 them. Let them do it. You know, we're creating 62 1 problems when it's never happened before. How 2 many times has the tribe been sued for contempt 3 because a tribal member has not paid their bill? 4 That's what I want to know. Mr. William? 5 MR. NORMAN: The nation, to our 6 knowledge, and I don't believe that we receive 7 every notice that comes through, but we've 8 received copies of notices through the nation 9 multiple times that are going to be contempt 10 proceedings. 11 MS. MCDANIEL: But how many times 12 have they been sued because a tribal member has 13 not paid their bills? 14 MR. NORMAN: They've not been sued 15 because the nation responded to their warning that 16 they were going to be held in contempt. 17 MS. MCDANIEL: Then continue to 18 respond. Why do we have to create this resolution 19 that's going to take the money out of the hands of 20 our people? Let them take care of their only 21 responsibilities. There's laws already out there 22 for child support. There's already laws out there 23 for somebody to pay their bill when they don't pay 24 it. 25 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Are we working on 63 1 which resolution right now? 2 MR. BURGESS: The resolution on the 3 garnishment -- 4 MR. TIPPECONNIE: I think that we're 5 talking about is the per cap, but we're talking 6 about -- those who have been ordered by the court 7 to make restitution. They're found guilty of 8 something. 9 MS. MCDANIEL: Well, then let them 10 deal with it. Why should you create a resolution 11 that's going to affect their per cap? 12 MR. TIPPECONNIE: In this case, 13 they're paying money back that they owe to the 14 nation, the individual. 15 MS. MCDANIEL: Let them do that. Let 16 their per cap alone. 17 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Their per cap is a 18 separate item here. 19 MR. BURGESS: Some people made a 20 commitment to give up their per cap at the 21 revolving loan fund, as Mr. Nelson brought up. 22 They made a commitment to pay back that amount if 23 they couldn't keep it up, and those commitments 24 have to be kept. Now, you said let people take 25 care of their own bills. They've agreed to take 64 1 care of their own bills by giving up their per 2 cap. Mr. Nauni, you had your hand up about 3 something? 4 MR. NAUNI: I'm trying to understand 5 why we have to adopt a resolution to do this. 6 These people are willing to give up their per cap, 7 well, that's an individual responsibility, an 8 individual decision. Most of you know that I've 9 been involved in the tobacco business. I was 10 involved in the tobacco business when there was no 11 compact. Well, what happened to me and other 12 smoke shop owners is the state, along with the 13 federal government, seemed to force the smoke 14 shops and the tribe's smoke shops to start paying 15 a tax through a compact agreement. If we would 16 never, ever come up with this compact agreement, 17 they wouldn't have had the ability to contact or 18 to collect taxes from us. It would still continue 19 to go to the tribe like it should have been. We 20 were willing to pay 2 percent to the tribe. 21 That's all the tax that's been paid. 22 The point is, why I'm saying this, 23 committee, is that why are you fulfilling a 24 responsibility when there's no problem? You know, 25 you're trying -- 65 1 MR. BURGESS: I think there was a 2 problem, because the court is requesting this 3 is -- 4 MR. NAUNI: Wait a minute, let me 5 finish. 6 MR. BURGESS: This has to do with an 7 individual's per cap garnishment because they 8 committed a crime that injured somebody and 9 they're facing court charges and they have to make 10 restitution. 11 MR. NAUNI: But I'm saying this, did 12 you already approve -- there were some 13 individuals, I guess, that defaulted on a loan and 14 they're willing to pay their or put up their per 15 cap. Didn't they already go ahead and sign that 16 over to you, or to whoever is trying to collect or 17 -- in other words, it sounds like the process has 18 already been done, so why do you have to make a 19 new rule in the tribe where everybody is going to 20 have to be subject to this possibility of 21 garnishment or whatever? 22 MR. BURGESS: Can he answer you? 23 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Let me answer this 24 one. If you're talking about those who got a 25 loan, they came in, executed an agreement and said 66 1 when I get my per cap, you know, I'll pay. Or I 2 will pay this loan in advance of the per cap. 3 There are two conditions. Some came and said they 4 would pay it before -- nothing to do with per 5 cap. Others said yes, you can take my per cap. 6 Well, they all ended up saying yes. If I don't 7 pay, my per cap will be taken. 8 This resolution has to be passed to 9 go to the bank. In this case, the one holding the 10 money, the trust. You know, all our per cap 11 moneys are in trust. They're handled to earn and 12 to be distributed. So for us to say do this on 13 those per caps, we have to have a resolution and 14 list those individuals. We don't list everybody. 15 We list those individuals and it goes to the bank, 16 and then the bank acts upon it. They cannot act 17 without authority. They have to have an 18 authority, the authority is the resolution. 19 Yes, we executed the other agreement, 20 but that's not the whole of it. We've got to go 21 further, because the individuals imply they're 22 going to pay it. They don't pay it. So then you 23 have to get -- which they said if I don't pay it, 24 take my per cap. Now, we have to have a 25 resolution. 67 1 MR. NAUNI: I'm just saying that 2 these things set precedent for anybody who 3 doesn't -- say that somebody has a good job. In 4 three or four years, say they lose that job, and 5 that's possible, and here they have a car and 6 they're saying well, these Indians, they got big 7 per cap payments. We're going to go to the tribe 8 and garnish their check. You're opening up -- 9 MS. MCDANIEL: You're opening up a 10 can of worms. You're penalizing the whole tribal 11 members because of that stupid loan program. 12 MR. NORMAN: This is limited in at 13 least three ways or maybe four ways. One, it is a 14 relationship between the nation and the business 15 committee through the bank. The bank has to have 16 authorization for this to happen. Secondly, it's 17 individual. It's not with respect to every tribal 18 member, it is with respect to a tribal member who 19 commits a federal crime of stealing, oftentimes 20 stealing from the nation, and who has been ordered 21 to pay that money back. And so this is their per 22 cap money that's going through the federal system 23 and coming back to the Comanche Nation. 24 And then the third scenario is where 25 there's been a policy of the nation long standing 68 1 to support child support payments for children. 2 And so in those two instances, it does not relate 3 to payday loans, it doesn't relate to car payments 4 or anything of that sort, which are different 5 types of garnishments. 6 MR. NELSON: Mr. Burgess, could you 7 read the resolution again, sir, because I think 8 we're all confused about it. 9 MR. BURGESS: Resolution 161-10: 10 "Pursuant to the Revenue Allocation Plan approved 11 by the BIA the Comanche Business Committee is the 12 trustee designated to supervise the full and fair 13 administration of the Revenue Allocation Plan; and 14 "Whereas, federal law, 18 U.S.C. 15 3613(a) 1 provides that a federal criminal 16 monetary penalty can be enforced against any 17 property or property rights of a defendant subject 18 to limited exceptions not applicable to a tribal 19 per capita payment; and 20 "Whereas, the Comanche Nation has 21 received writs of garnishment for the levy of per 22 capita payments of certain tribal members as 23 identified on the attached list. 24 "Now therefore be it resolved that 25 the Comanche Business Committee hereby approves 69 1 and authorizes City National Bank & Trust of 2 Lawton to levy the FY 2010 per capita payment 3 and/or elder per capita payment of Comanche tribal 4 members in the amounts prescribed on the attached 5 list." 6 That's what it is, it's specific to 7 one individual and it goes according to federal 8 law. 9 MR. NELSON: Is there any way it can 10 be reworded that it is federal offense only. All 11 other civil offenses -- 12 MR. HENSON: It already says that. 13 MR. NELSON: No, it doesn't. It 14 points to a statute. 15 MR. HENSON: Provides that a federal 16 criminal monetary penalty can be enforced. 17 MR. NELSON: Only? 18 MR. HENSON: That's what it says, 19 federal criminal monetary. 20 MR. NELSON: Put only in there. 21 MR. BURGESS: No, we don't have to 22 put only in there, because there might be other 23 federal laws that apply. So we're saying only to 24 18 USC. Yes, Ms. Aitson? 25 MS. AITSON: I feel like this whole 70 1 agenda here, you got your nose in everybody's 2 private business. I mean, let people take care of 3 their own. 4 MR. BURGESS: Ms. Aitson, we're only 5 complying with federal law, and we need this 6 resolution to the bank to let them do it. 7 MS. AITSON: You guys have made it so 8 hard for some families. Mine. My son lost his 9 truck, he had to take my car, I'm without a car, I 10 have to hitchhike around. I have to ask people to 11 take me here. My own family won't even haul me 12 around, but they can go to the casinos every day 13 and I'm right there without a ride. I'm roughing 14 it right now, and y'all are making it harder on 15 everybody. 16 MR. HENSON: Let me see if I can 17 explain this to maybe clarify it a little more. 18 What this basically means is any federal criminal 19 act, and I'll give you an example. What if we had 20 somebody in the tribe that stole 10, 20, $30,000 21 by fraudulent means? 22 MS. MCDANIEL: They've done that and 23 more. 24 MR. HENSON: Let me go ahead and 25 explain. What this means is -- 71 1 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: And we know 2 who they are. 3 MR. HENSON: What this means is, this 4 is the way to get that money back. They're always 5 going to be eligible -- please, just a minute. 6 MS. MCDANIEL: What you can do to one 7 tribal member, what you can do to one tribal 8 member you can do to any one of these Comanches. 9 MR. BURGESS: Mr. Henson has the 10 floor, Ms. McDaniel. Sit down, please. 11 MR. HENSON: This is pertaining to a 12 federal criminal offense. Now, what happens is, 13 if they go out and steal 30, $40,000 or whatever 14 amount they steal and they are prosecuted for 15 that, then what that means, what this means is 16 they can get it paid back by their per cap. Go 17 back to the nation and go back in your per cap 18 money. That's exactly what this is. It's a 19 federal offense. That's what it means. It's not 20 going to be taken out of everybody's, it's only 21 going to be taken out of those guys that have 22 committed a federal offense. 23 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Mr. Chairman, I 24 second this motion. 25 MR. BURGESS: Motion made and 72 1 seconded. Motion made by Mr. Henson, seconded by 2 Mark Wauahdooah. 3 MR. ESCHITI: How many people are we 4 talking about? 5 MR. BURGESS: One person per this 6 resolution. 7 MR. ESCHITI: One person. 8 MR. BURGESS: One person. This ain't 9 everybody. 10 MR. ESCHITI: This whole resolution 11 is for one person? 12 MR. BURGESS: It has to be. 13 MR. BURSON: Four. 14 MR. BURGESS: Oh, I'm sorry, four. 15 MRS. HENDRIX: But you're saying by 16 this resolution you can use it against others. 17 You set precedent. 18 MR. BURGESS: Only if they break 19 federal law. 20 MS. MCDANIEL: It's not your 21 business. 22 MR. BURGESS: It's not our business 23 if they steal from the tribe? 24 MRS. TAHDOOAHNIPPAH: Isn't there 25 something already in the current RAP that says if 73 1 you embezzle then you give up your per cap for up 2 to five years? There's something in there that 3 the bank requires that. 4 MR. BURGESS: But the bank needs this 5 to authorize, keep it back. 6 MR. TIPPECONNIE: The bank needs our 7 instruction. 8 MR. BURGESS: Motion made and 9 seconded. Clyde, don't go nowhere. Motion's been 10 made and seconded. 11 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Who seconded? 12 MR. BURGESS: Mark did. All those in 13 favor signify by saying "aye". 14 (Aye.) 15 MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same 16 sign. All those abstain, same sign. The ayes 17 have it. 18 Resolution 162-10. Very similar. 19 Again, it affects the Revenue Allocation Plan of 20 an individual. 21 "Whereas, pursuant to the Revenue 22 Allocation Plan approved by the Bureau of Indian 23 Affairs, the Comanche Business Committee is the 24 trustee designated to supervise the full and fair 25 administration of the Revenue Allocation Plan; and 74 1 "Whereas, Section 15-407 of the 2 Comanche Nation 'Children and Family Relations 3 Code' adopted by Resolution No. 54-08 on April 5, 4 2008, subjects the property of a child support 5 obligor to lien by operation of law for past due 6 child support amounts, and Section 15-409 of the 7 Code authorizes the Child Support Program to levy 8 any account of an obligor who is in arrears; and 9 "Whereas, Section 15-423 requires the 10 Child Support Program to enforce the valid child 11 support order of other states or tribes under the 12 Full Faith and Credit For Child Support Orders Act 13 (28 USC 1738B), where applicable." 14 This means that we're going to 15 withhold per cap payments due for child support 16 payments to the other parents, or whomever. 17 MR. HENSON: I'll make a motion to 18 approve. 19 MR. BURGESS: Motion being made by 20 Mr. Henson. 21 MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: Second, 22 Mr. Chairman. 23 MR. BURGESS: Second by Mr. Darrell 24 Kosechequetah. Call for the question. All those 25 in favor signify by saying "aye". 75 1 (Aye.) 2 MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same 3 sign. All those abstain, same sign. The ayes 4 have it. 5 We're going into Resolution 163-10. 6 This is a grant application to the U.S. Department 7 of Health and Human Services for the AOA program, 8 Part C, Title VI. This is a caregiver support 9 program. 10 "Whereas, the Comanche Business 11 Committee sees the critical need for a home and 12 community-based support services program that 13 would provide information and assistance, 14 transportation, chore services, and other 15 supportive services that contribute to the welfare 16 of older Native Americans; and 17 "Whereas, the United States 18 Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), 19 Administration on aging (AOA), Title VI, Part C: 20 Grants for the Native American Caregiver Support 21 Program has funds available from $14,410 to 22 $57,680 to accomplish this purpose; and 23 "Whereas, the Tribal Chairman or his 24 designee, is the official representative of the 25 Comanche Nation, and is authorized to negotiate 76 1 and approve contracts and any amendments to such. 2 "Now therefore be it resolved, that 3 the Comanche Business Committee does hereby 4 approve the submission of a grant application to 5 the United States Department of Health and Human 6 Services (HHS), Administration on Aging (AOA), 7 Title VI, Part C: Grants For Native American 8 Caregiver Support Program. 9 "Be it further resolved that, the 10 Comanche Business Committee, acting for and on 11 behalf of the Comanche Nation, does hereby 12 authorize this Resolution for such intent." 13 This is the caregiver support 14 program. We're going to go for all we can get, 15 right? 16 MR. HENSON: I'll make a motion to 17 approve. 18 MR. BURGESS: Motion's made by 19 Mr. Henson. Second by Mr. Narcomey. Discussion? 20 Arlene, did you have something to add to this 21 resolution? 22 MS. ASENAP: Yes, Charlotte told me 23 to turn this in. 24 MR. BURGESS: That's fine. Yes, 25 Ms. Mason. Thank you, Arlene. 77 1 MS. MASON: I just have a comment to 2 make. When you're coming to this program to help 3 someone, you need somebody in there that's going 4 to have a little compassion. This lady here does 5 not have compassion for the people -- 6 MR. BURGESS: Ms. Mason, let's -- you 7 have your opinion, but, please, don't get 8 derogatory with it. 9 MS. MASON: Well, I'm telling you the 10 way it is. That's why nobody does anything about 11 it. You don't want to hear what's going on. You 12 want to coat everything over with something sweet, 13 but that's not the way it is. I was part of that, 14 I know. You don't listen to nobody. You think 15 you know it all. 16 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Mr. Burgess, 17 she came in there with an attitude. 18 MS. MASON: No, I did not. 19 MR. BURGESS: We're not going to have 20 any arguments on the floor. Arlene, thank you 21 very much, appreciate it. And thank you, 22 Ms. Mason. Your comments are duly noted. Okay, 23 gentlemen, any other discussion? Motion? 24 MR. HENSON: I made one. 25 MR. BURGESS: All right. Motion made 78 1 by Mr. Henson. Second? 2 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Narcomey. 3 MR. REDELK: Clyde made it. 4 MR. BURGESS: All those in favor 5 signify by saying "aye". 6 (Aye.) 7 MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same 8 sign. All those abstain, same sign. The ayes 9 have it. 10 MS. AITSON: Mr. Burgess, I'm getting 11 ready to leave. I need to say something. You 12 need to draw up a resolution for this child 13 support thing you're doing. Line up all the 14 Comanche men at the Indian Hospital and do 15 something about it. 16 MR. BURGESS: I'm afraid to infringe 17 on somebody's civil rights. I can't do that. 18 MR. TOM NARCOMEY: One comment about 19 the proposal. Let's see, it's caregiver support. 20 Now, that's a good idea, because we can do a 21 proposal through ANA to develop a hospice. And 22 then that would, you know, be right in line with 23 that. 24 MR. BURGESS: Yes, correct. Thank 25 you. 79 1 MR. TOM NARCOMEY: And then the 2 hospice, I was talking to Gene Pekah. He said it 3 would bring in about a million dollars of revenue 4 a year. 5 MR. BURGESS: A lot of that revenue 6 will just cover the basic cost of staff and 7 materials and items. All right. 8 Move to Resolution 164-10, which is 9 also an application to U.S. Health and Human 10 Services. This is Part A of Title VI. This is 11 our nutrition program. It's continuing funding. 12 U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, 13 Administration on Aging, AOA Title VI, Part A, 14 Grant for the Native American Nutrition Program 15 has funds available from 76,000 to $180,000 to 16 accomplish this purpose. 17 "Whereas, the Tribal Chairman or his 18 designees, is the official representative of the 19 Comanche Nation, and is authorized to negotiate 20 and approve contracts and any amendments to such. 21 "Now therefore be it resolved, that 22 the Comanche Business Committee does hereby 23 approve the submission of a grant application to 24 the United States Department of Health and Human 25 Services (HHS), Administration on Aging (AOA), 80 1 Title VI, Part A: Grants for the Native American 2 Nutrition Program." 3 We do have this grant, but it's 4 return, meaning every two years -- where did she 5 go? Arlene, Charlotte's not here, right? It's 6 every three years, two or three years. 7 MR. NELSON: Mr. Burgess, is this new 8 and added money here, or is this the mature 9 contract -- 10 MR. BURGESS: It would be the same 11 mature. So motion? 12 MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: I'll make the 13 motion. 14 MR. BURGESS: Motion made by 15 Mr. Kosechequetah. 16 MR. HENSON: Second. 17 MR. BURGESS: Second made by 18 Mr. Henson. 19 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Vote. 20 MR. BURGESS: All those in favor 21 signify by saying "aye". 22 (Aye.) 23 MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same 24 sign. All those abstain, same sign. 25 MR. ATTOCKNIE: This proposal is due 81 1 by the end of this month, by the end of November? 2 MR. BURGESS: Correct. TERO 3 Ordinance, Resolution 165-10. 4 MR. ATTOCKNIE: Would you like to at 5 least make the announcement of the paper that I 6 just passed out? 7 MR. BURGESS: Oh, did you give one to 8 everybody? Somebody got my copy. 9 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Look at mine. 10 MR. BURGESS: I'd asked Ms. Attocknie 11 to compile a November report for us. This is on 12 the grants program. To date, we have received 1.8 13 million funds from U.S. Department of Education 14 for a voc-rehab services program, serving a seven- 15 county area: Comanche, Caddo, Cotton, parts of 16 Tillman, Jefferson, Stevens, Kiowa, Grady and 17 Jackson Counties. The services provided are 18 consisting with their individual strengths, 19 resources, priorities, concerns and abilities or 20 capabilities, and informed choices for individuals 21 in the program. We also received a $25,000 grant 22 for funds to assist the elderly with disaster 23 relief in the event of the ice storms, tornados 24 and flooding. This is from the U.S. Department of 25 Health and Human Services, Department on Aging. 82 1 We also received another $25,000 from 2 the Oklahoma Department of Transportation for 3 beautification grant. This moneys are used to 4 purchase native trees and shrubs to put around our 5 complex grounds or other areas. We've also 6 received a $325,000 grant from the Department of 7 Energy for a feasibility study on energy usage at 8 the tribal complex and the creation of a more cost 9 effective utility system. Cost effective water, 10 electricity, and waste water treatment system will 11 be utilized by the complex and the surrounding 12 community and area, which we've referred to as 13 Maddische. 14 We've also received $250,000 from the 15 Department of Environmental Protection for 16 establishing the water quality standards. We have 17 two grants pending. This is for the Department of 18 Health and Human Services again, Administration of 19 Children and Families. This is the tribal 20 maternal and infant child home care for $351,000. 21 That's in the pipeline waiting for approval. 22 We've also applied for a $300,000 23 grant, U.S. Department Health and Human Services 24 for the Comanche Nation diabetes program. This is 25 above and over what we normally get right, 83 1 Phyllis? 2 MS. ATTOCKNIE: Yes. 3 MR. BURGESS: In our recurring grant. 4 Then our work in progress are the ones we just 5 passed the resolutions on. One is for $186,000 6 and the other one is for 50,680 bucks. We're 7 trying to move forward with our grants and 8 accomplish more services for our community. Thank 9 you, folks. 10 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Phyllis, can I ask 11 you a question? On this VR program, how many 12 staff members? 13 MR. ATTOCKNIE: Four. We will have a 14 director, a counselor, and a jobs facilitator, as 15 well as an administrative assistant. 16 MR. WAHADOOAH: This is an excellent 17 program. It's subject to abuse. I know among the 18 Apaches it worked well, but it was subject to 19 abuse. It dovetails with social services. I'm 20 glad we got this. 21 MS. ATTOCKNIE: If you would like 22 more information, I'd be glad to provide it. 23 MR. NELSON: Ms. Attocknie, who got 24 this grant? Was it Bobby Tenequer? 25 MR. BURGESS: No. 84 1 MR. ATTOCKNIE: No. 2 MR. NELSON: They were the ones 3 working on it before? 4 MR. ATTOCKNIE: Yes, at one time. 5 This is the third grant to be applied for for this 6 specific purpose. The first two attempts were not 7 approved, and after working -- anyway. But this 8 is the third attempt. How do they say it, the 9 third time's the charm? Well, we got it. The 10 issue has been because the Apache Tribe utilized 11 our service area. Their jurisdictional area only 12 is from Caddo County line to -- what's that 13 river? The Washita. 14 MR. NELSON: I'd like to ask the CBC 15 body when Ms. Bobby Tenequer attempted this, the 16 fella from Delaware Tribe, I believe -- 17 MR. ATTOCKNIE: John Ringalaro. 18 MR. NELSON: Did they have a 19 resolution about this grant? 20 MR. BURGESS: They had to have a 21 resolution. That was done under former GA, 22 Mr. Wauqua. That grant was not accepted, was not 23 funded. So that resolution, it does not hold. We 24 submitted a new resolution for this grant and this 25 grant was received. The first grant was applied 85 1 for in 2005-2006. 2 MR. NELSON: Are you guys going to 3 put that under the department of education or 4 social services? 5 MR. BURGESS: We haven't decided that 6 yet. Thank you. 7 MR. NELSON: Are you guys going to 8 adopt policies to get it started? 9 MR. ATTOCKNIE: There are federal 10 guidelines that have to be abided by. 11 MR. NELSON: Well, there's 12 guidelines. Like Mr. Wauahdooah said, there's 13 always the attempt of abuse. 14 MR. BURGESS: You saying our people 15 abuse the program? 16 MR. NELSON: Yes, I am. 17 MR. ATTOCKNIE: So have -- never 18 mind. 19 MR. BURGESS: We will have policies, 20 and those policies will be based on federal 21 guidelines, rules and regulations. We'll do that 22 when we get the staff in place, Mr. Nelson. Thank 23 you. 24 Guys, we have Resolution 165-10, 25 which is a resolution approving the TERO. 86 1 MR. NORMAN: Mr. Chairman, we made 2 some changes. There was a question this week that 3 we need to work on some jurisdiction. We need 4 about an hour-and-a-half with you to go over it. 5 MR. HENSON: Motion to table it. 6 MR. BURGESS: Mr. Henson has made a 7 motion to table. 8 MR. TIPPECONNIE: I'll second. 9 MR. BURGESS: Second by 10 Mr. Tippeconnie. All those in favor signify by 11 saying "aye". 12 (Aye.) 13 MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same 14 sign. All those abstain, same sign. The ayes 15 have it. 16 MR. TIPPECONNIE: We have a motion 17 here on the Bowens. They have trust lands just to 18 the north, almost north of Indiahoma where they 19 have their smoke shop. Okay? Mr. Ronnie Bowen, 20 who is one of the family members there and had the 21 smoke shop, is asking that he be able to sell 12.5 22 acres. The reason this is brought forward is 23 that, you know, when land goes out of the trust, 24 it's just good for the persons to come forward and 25 say they're going to move it out of trust, and if 87 1 the nation has some objection or some interest, 2 then they declare that. If not, we just say let 3 Mr. Bowen proceed with moving it into fee. He 4 wants to move that part with his buildings into 5 fee, so he takes it out of trust. 6 MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: He wants to move 7 it into fee or he was to sell it to somebody and 8 it becomes fee? 9 MR. TIPPECONNIE: He was to put it 10 himself into fee. 11 MR. HENSON: Beverly Sue is -- 12 MR. TIPPECONNIE: That's a different 13 one. That's the next one. 14 MR. HENSON: It's still 12.5 acres. 15 Is that the same 12.5 acres? 16 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Excuse me, it 17 shouldn't say 12.5 acres. 18 MR. NARCOMEY: Ronnie Bowen don't 19 have no acreage in this. 20 MR. TIPPECONNIE: I apologize. It 21 should be in here, but it's the acreage upon which 22 his facility now sits, and he wants to move that 23 into fee. I don't know what his intention is, to 24 sell it or not. 25 MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: I understand what 88 1 it is. 2 MR. TIPPECONNIE: You understand what 3 it is? 4 MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: Yeah, we don't 5 need to discuss it. 6 MR. TIPPECONNIE: It's just 7 requesting, and if we say we have no problem, then 8 he moves it into fee and he sells it. I don't 9 know what he does. So we have sort of like first 10 right of refusal to say we have an interest or if 11 it goes out of fee. 12 MR. HENSON: Once it goes out of fee, 13 does that mean we have -- 14 MR. TIPPECONNIE: I mean, excuse me, 15 goes out of trust. 16 MR. HENSON: Goes out of trust, we 17 have no say-so as to whatever -- 18 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Then he can do 19 whatever. 20 MR. HENSON: I'll make a motion to 21 disapprove here. 22 MR. BURGESS: Is there a motion to 23 disapprove here? 24 MS. ATTOCKNIE: I thought there was a 25 motion to approve. 89 1 MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: What's the 2 process if we disapprove? Then we have to 3 consider for purchase as a tribe? 4 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Well, I think we 5 should have some notice as to why we feel it 6 should be out of trust. 7 MR. BURGESS: We lose jurisdiction of 8 it. 9 MR. HENSON: The reason I'm making 10 that motion is because we're going to lose 11 jurisdiction of that and that could be a prime 12 location to put another casino in. We'd be 13 competing against ourselves, or if they put in 14 another smoke shop, but it will be out of fee 15 where we won't have no say-so over it. That's the 16 reason I made the motion. 17 MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: That's the reason 18 they're bringing it forward. 19 MR. BURGESS: Is the motion to 20 purchase? 21 MR. TIPPECONNIE: No, his request is 22 to the Bureau, the BIA. He makes a request to the 23 BIA to move it into fee. The Bureau notifies the 24 Comanche Nation do we have any problem, is it 25 okay? So then if it's okay, then we say proceed. 90 1 Then we give that back to the Bureau, then the 2 Bureau notifies him and he works it to get into 3 fee. 4 MR. BURGESS: Do you have a comment, 5 William? I saw you moving your head. 6 MR. NORMAN: It sounds like maybe you 7 need more information about what the ultimate 8 purpose for removing the fee status is. It may 9 ultimately result in an adverse interest to the 10 Comanche Nation. It may be useful to find out 11 exactly what the plans are. 12 MR. ATTOCKNIE: That or what about a 13 proviso that if he wants to sell this or put it 14 into fee, that the tribe would allow it with the 15 proviso that it not be used for gaming, smoke shop 16 usage by whoever -- for whatever he wants. 17 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yeah, he can't do 18 gaming. 19 MR. ATTOCKNIE: I'm just saying. 20 MR. BURGESS: We can't say that, but 21 we can't stop him from doing what he's wants to do 22 if it goes out of fee, or whoever the owner is. 23 We ought to have a proviso for first opportunity 24 for sale if he wants to sell it, knowing we only 25 purchase at appraisal rate. 91 1 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Do you want to hold 2 and get some more information from him? 3 MR. BURGESS: Do you want to table 4 the motion? 5 MR. TIPPECONNIE: But I think that's 6 personal to him as to what he's going to do. 7 MR. HENSON: There's already a motion 8 on the floor to disapprove. 9 MR. BURGESS: Motion on the floor to 10 disapprove. Second? Do we have a second to 11 disapprove? 12 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: I'll make that 13 second. 14 MR. BURGESS: We have a second to 15 disapprove from Mr. Wauahdooah. All those in 16 favor signify by saying "aye". 17 (Aye.) 18 MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same 19 sign. All those abstain, same sign. All those 20 opposed say nay. 21 MR. NARCOMEY: Nay. 22 MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: Nay. 23 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Abstain. 24 MR. REDELK: Abstain. 25 MR. TIPPECONNIE: It comes to you. 92 1 MR. BURGESS: I'm going to vote with 2 disapprove. I want further information. Let's 3 ask him why. Did he close his smoke shop down? 4 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yes, with the 5 tribe. 6 MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: Right, at that 7 location. 8 MR. BURGESS: Let's find out more 9 information. Motion to disapprove has passed. 10 Now, we have another motion. Go 11 ahead and write your notes. 12 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yeah, I have it. 13 There's the next one. 14 MR. BURGESS: We have a motion coming 15 forward to approve -- the owner is Ms. Beverly Sue 16 Kaniatobe. It's a gift deed, 12.5 acres more or 17 less to her brother, Mr. Virgil James, an enrolled 18 member of the Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma. This is 19 Tarcyup, Comanche Allotment 1565. 20 MR. TIPPECONNIE: That's the same 21 thing. They just ask the Bureau -- they make the 22 request to the Bureau saying BIA, that they're 23 going to gift deed, and then the BIA informs us do 24 we have any concern about that. If not, we say go 25 ahead. 93 1 MR. BURGESS: It's still in our 2 jurisdiction and we still have economic venture 3 status on it, would we not, Mr. Norman, for 4 taxation? 5 MR. NORMAN: Yes, I think based on 6 the letter behind the motion. Maybe you want to 7 add this to the motion itself. But based upon the 8 representations with the Department of Interior, 9 that Comanche Nation will retain jurisdiction of 10 the property and it will remain in trust. 11 MR. TIPPECONNIE: So there's really 12 no problem to the nation if it's individual. 13 MS. ATTOCKNIE: She's Comanche and 14 her brother's Choctaw? 15 MR. BURGESS: That's what it says. 16 MR. HENSON: I've got a question. 17 What about the water? Do you know anything about 18 the land at all? Is there any water? 19 MR. TIPPECONNIE: It remains under 20 our jurisdiction, remains a Comanche allotment. 21 It remains in trust with the status that it's a 22 Comanche allotment. 23 MR. HENSON: So we still have say-so 24 on the water, use of the water? 25 MR. BURGESS: Any economic venture we 94 1 maintain control, and it's in Cotton County. It 2 says containing 9.3 acres more or less. 3 MR. TIPPECONNIE: We should have had 4 it corrected. 5 MR. BURGESS: They're saying 12.5. 6 Do we want to pass this motion with the 7 correction? 8 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Let's pass it with 9 the correction on the acres. 10 MR. BURGESS: Gentlemen, we're making 11 a correction to the motion to be 9.03. 12 MR. TIPPECONNIE: It's 12.5, it's 13 correct. 14 MR. HENSON: Third down says 15 containing 9.3 acres more or less. 16 MR. TIPPECONNIE: But those are 17 different pieces, see? They're lots. There's Lot 18 3 -- you have to read the whole of it, and then 19 the total of it is 12.5. But -- 20 MR. BURGESS: That's confusing. 21 Which lot is she in? 22 MR. TIPPECONNIE: It's the whole of 23 it. Then he states all the lots, point 9.03. 24 This one is -- I see what happens. It has to be 25 retallied. 95 1 MR. BURGESS: Do y'all see that, 2 Mr. Norman? 3 MR. TIPPECONNIE: I have to retally 4 that. It's the whole of it. The total acreage is 5 more than 12 -- yeah, we can pass it with the 6 condition that I correct the acreage. 7 MR. BURGESS: That's a lot of 8 acreage. 9 MR. HENSON: I think we ought to 10 table it and find out more about it. 11 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Table? 12 MR. HENSON: Yeah, I'll make the 13 motion to table. 14 MR. TIPPECONNIE: We need to correct 15 it. 16 MR. BURGESS: Motion to table by 17 Mr. Henson. 18 MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: Second. 19 MR. BURGESS: Second by Darrell. All 20 those in favor signify by saying "aye". 21 (Aye.) 22 MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same 23 sign. All those abstain, same sign. 24 MR. REDELK: I can give you a little 25 background on that property. There was a quarter 96 1 section that she fell heir to, and it's my 2 understanding that she sold all of that, except 3 for this site where there's a house, and East 4 Cache Creek runs through it. It's approximately 5 three-and-a-half miles south of Walters on that 6 Indian Road on the east side of Walters. 7 MR. BURSON: I don't know that that 8 description is wrong. The top part of the 9 description says the land that's going to be 10 conveyed to this person, and it has to be Lot 3, 11 within less and except two tracts of that. 12 MR. TIPPECONNIE: That's correct. 13 MR. BURSON: Those next two 14 descriptions could be the reference in pertaining 15 12.5 acres probably describes -- one describes the 16 50 acres as being subtracted. One describes the 17 12.5 acres being subtracted. 18 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Or the 9.03 and the 19 50.80. We'll correct that. We'll look at it. I 20 think the 12.5 acres is what it is. 21 MR. NARCOMEY: Let's table it anyway 22 so we can talk about it later. 23 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Let's table. Let's 24 move on. It's tabled. 25 MR. BURGESS: All right. Now we know 97 1 where it's at. So motion to table by Mr. Henson. 2 Motion passed. All right. 3 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yes, it's tabled. 4 MR. BURGESS: Thank you, Mr. RedElk, 5 for that information. 6 Clyde wants to amend the agenda to 7 add Envirolaw to our -- did you say executive 8 session or open, new business? 9 MR. NARCOMEY: Do you want executive 10 session or now? 11 MR. TAHKOPFER: It's up to them. It 12 doesn't make any difference. 13 MR. TIPPECONNIE: I asked Charlene 14 Collins -- the agenda amended to be in executive 15 session, so that will be Number 11. 16 MR. BURGESS: Those two additions. 17 Motion's made. Second by Mr. Tippeconnie. All 18 those in favor signify by saying "aye". 19 (Aye.) 20 MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same 21 sign. All those abstain, same sign. 22 MR. REDELK: What was Number 11? 23 MR. BURGESS: Number 11 was Carlene 24 Collins and adding the company Envirolaw to the 25 agenda, those two. 98 1 Next is Mr. Clyde Narcomey. You're 2 on the new business. 3 MR. NARCOMEY: Oh, we're on new 4 business now? 5 MR. BURGESS: Yes, moving into the 6 next section, new and old business. 7 MR. NARCOMEY: Okay. What I got to 8 say will probably take about four or five 9 minutes. But also, once I get through telling it, 10 let me know do we need a motion to approve this or 11 not. Okay? It's got to do with the elders' 12 center. We got several complaints about the 13 women's restroom. I think there's three stalls in 14 there, maybe four. I haven't been in there to 15 look, I'm just going by what I've been told. But 16 there's only one handicap, you know, for the women 17 in this restroom there. What I'd like to do is 18 get them all handicap accessible, handicap 19 parameters, because that's what it is. It's an 20 elders' center. So, you know, I know it's 21 probably pretty hard for a handicap person to go 22 in there and do their business with just one 23 stall, and there's, you know, a lot of, you know, 24 women, mainly women that go down there. I'd like 25 to get that taken care of. 99 1 Also, the handrails on the east side 2 of the building, the west and the east side, the 3 entrance, they need a handicap-friendly rail. 4 Because winter's coming on and it's slippery and 5 wet, and these elders walking with a cane, they 6 need some sort of protection during the 7 wintertime. 8 MR. WHITEWOLF: You need steps more 9 than you need handrails. 10 MR. NARCOMEY: Okay, steps. That'd 11 be good. Just as long as we get something done 12 for the elders. 13 Also, I brought up a deal last month 14 about there was leak in the kitchen and in the 15 main part. And as of a month ago today, well, 16 nothing has been done. So I'd like to have that 17 done for the elders, also. 18 Also on -- I have the parking, the 19 parking right in front of the building on the east 20 side of the building. It's got handicap parking 21 there, but the people that work there in their 22 work vans, they park right there in front where 23 all the elders, they got to park over here and 24 work their way up this way. So I'd like for them 25 vehicles and directors, I guess is who parks 100 1 there, but anyway, have them park back there in 2 back. They're coming to work, they can walk up 3 there. It ain't going to hurt them. What I'm 4 worried about is the elders. 5 MR. BURGESS: You want to create more 6 handicap parking there? 7 MR. NARCOMEY: No, you can't create 8 more parking because there's only a certain amount 9 of parking, but the vans that are parked there, 10 they're just there all day and all night. They 11 only go out to deliver food on the east side. 12 MR. ATTOCKNIE: Right by the 13 entrance. 14 MR. BURGESS: That's what I'm saying. 15 MR. NARCOMEY: I'm requesting have 16 the employees move them vans out of here out of 17 the way and let the real handicap people park 18 where they should be parking. 19 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Yeah, during 20 the day, but nighttime they got to have them put 21 there, those vans. 22 MR. NARCOMEY: They're there during 23 the nighttime. That's what I mean. 24 Also, I heard complaints about the 25 bingo there when they have bingo. Well, the 101 1 employees are playing bingo there. And if they 2 win, they keep the money. You know, I guess we're 3 paying them to play bingo, then. 4 MR. BURGESS: Turn that over to 5 Mr. Owens. 6 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: That's the 7 manager's fault. 8 MR. BURGESS: We need a cost 9 estimate, Clyde. 10 MR. NARCOMEY: Anyway, we can get the 11 TA to do that or if we need a law. It seems like 12 we can't get anything done unless we get a 13 resolution. 14 MR. OWENS: I've already talked to 15 Louis about that, Mr. Narcomey. They're working 16 on the fitness center, and when they finish that, 17 they're headed over -- we just put a new roof on 18 the unit. 19 MR. NARCOMEY: But it's leaking. 20 MR. OWENS: I'm working on that. 21 MR. NARCOMEY: Just probably maybe at 22 the most 3, 4,000. But it's going to be 23 beneficial to the handicap elders. 24 Also, I'd like for the TA to check on 25 Clarence Pacheka, how he stands on his new home. 102 1 Are they finishing it up? 2 MR. OWENS: They finished it and 3 Mr. Tippeconnie went out there and looked at it. 4 MR. NARCOMEY: Someone told me 5 there's no gas out there. 6 MR. OWENS: Oh, I don't know about 7 that. 8 MR. NARCOMEY: Can you check on that? 9 MR. OWENS: That would be a social 10 services deal. 11 MR. NARCOMEY: Thursday someone 12 called me up and informed me that our gas station 13 at Cyril didn't have no gas, and it's a gas 14 station, so that's another one of your economic 15 development failures. That's all I got to say. 16 MR. BURGESS: We don't have any 17 control over them guys. 18 MR. ATTOCKNIE: In your list, you 19 forgot this place here, our complex. 20 MR. BURGESS: Mr. Parker, Jerry 21 Parker? 22 MR. PARKER: Mr. Narcomey, we did put 23 a new roof on it. It was contracted out to 24 Balliente Construction. When it rained this last 25 time and it was leaking again, the guys from CIP 103 1 went up there and actually saw where the leaking 2 was from. We don't know if it was due to the 3 Balliente Construction Company that did it, 4 because they supposedly tore off all that area 5 where the AC unit is. But we called him back 6 there and he said he was going to send his guys 7 back up there to remedy that. As to whether he 8 did or didn't, we don't know, but we will follow 9 up on that. 10 MR. OWENS: Actually, I'm waiting on 11 an estimation or cost to lower the AC unit. It's 12 a flat roof and that's what's causing it to leak. 13 I'm waiting on a cost estimate first, how much 14 it's going to cost. 15 MR. PARKER: Well, if you're going to 16 do that, I would recommend we need a whole new 17 system, because that's just -- it's not a split 18 unit. If that goes out, they're dead in the 19 water. You need a whole new system. 20 MR. BURGESS: Okay. 21 MR. NARCOMEY: Like I said, we could 22 do that before it gets cold. 23 MR. TAHKOPFER: It's cold now. 24 MR. NARCOMEY: I mean raining and 25 sleet time, you know, is coming. 104 1 MR. TIPPECONNIE: I think the TA can 2 handle it. 3 MR. BURGESS: Thank you, 4 Mr. Narcomey. Number 2, Tanisha, childcare? 5 MRS. BURGESS: The first one is an 6 e-mail correspondence between myself, C.J. 7 Anderson, Carolyn Codopony and me. The second one 8 is a letter and some handouts about the over- 9 income program that myself and some other 10 individuals are on. I just want to give y'all a 11 little bit of, I guess, an overview of what's 12 going on. 13 On November, as you can see in the 14 e-mail, the first part is Mia. She was explaining 15 to everyone what was going on basically about the 16 daycare assistance program that we're on. And the 17 second page is the correspondence that Carolyn 18 Codopony, director of the childcare program, she 19 responded to us, responded to myself on Thursday 20 at that time letting me know that the program that 21 we're on is going to be cut or done with in 22 December. 23 The second handout I gave you is a 24 letter we received at a meeting that we attended 25 in September. That meeting was with the acting TA 105 1 regarding Carolyn Codopony herself, as well as 2 several of the other families that are on this 3 program. Basically what it is, is we're asking 4 today that -- let me back up. Sorry. In 2008, an 5 amendment was made to the general council budget 6 to include daycare assistance for over-income 7 families such as myself. 8 I represent a small group of families 9 where we don't qualify for DHS daycare assistance 10 or assistance to help us with the daycare payments 11 we make to whomever we choose. My husband and I, 12 along with other families that are on this 13 program, the majority of the families that are on 14 this program are two-parent working families. My 15 husband works full-time, I work full-time. The 16 majority of us on this program are employed by the 17 Comanche Nation. Several of us utilize the 18 Comanche daycare in Apache and the Comanche 19 daycare in Lawton. 20 We were paying full price fees before 21 this -- before we were helped with this program. 22 At that time, I had one child in the program. It 23 wasn't in the daycare, it wasn't such a big issue, 24 but I've had more children since then. I had two 25 children in there and then recently I had another 106 1 child. I had one child go out of daycare and 2 another one in. We were put on a, I guess, a 3 sliding scale fee to help us. It was to help 4 defray the cost of our daycare. I think at the 5 time we were paying $20 for full-time children 6 times two. You add that up on average, there's 22 7 workdays in a month. That's a lot of money. 8 So, again, going backing to 2008, we 9 were asked for to make an amendment and it was 10 added to help these over-income families. And I'm 11 not complaining, because we appreciate that 12 program and I do -- I don't solely rely on it. We 13 all in this small group, we all rely on this 14 program. We were recently informed that the cost 15 of our daycare was going to go up, the co-pay was 16 going to go up, and there was no more funds to 17 help us with this. 18 And our -- it's outrageous. I can't 19 afford it. None of these families on this program 20 can afford any of this. We have mortgages, we 21 have health insurance payments, you know, we have 22 a host of other bills in addition to this 23 daycare. It's just -- if this goes into effect, 24 we are not going to be -- none of us are going to 25 be able to -- I'm just going to have to quit 107 1 working, bottom line, one of us. And I don't 2 think that that has to be an option for us. 3 Because I work hard every day, my husband works 4 hard. We rely on this program. 5 And for them to come -- they never 6 asked -- I shouldn't say they. Carolyn, she never 7 came to us and said hey, guys, you know, this 8 isn't working, can we come together, can we work 9 on something to make this all work for everyone. 10 She never asked that. She just basically -- I 11 found out by -- I don't know, I just found out by 12 whim, I guess, you know, found out that this 13 program was getting cut, that the prices were 14 going up. No one else was notified. I had to end 15 up notifying all these other families: Were you 16 aware of this? No. No one knew this. 17 MS. CODOPONY: That's not true. She 18 gave you a letter that was mailed out. I think it 19 was the end of August. 20 MRS. BURGESS: It might have been 21 mailed out. We received that the day that we had 22 the meeting with the TA and Carolyn. 23 MS. CODOPONY: I disagree with that. 24 MRS. BURGESS: She asked us to sign a 25 statement. 108 1 MS. CODOPONY: I disagree with that. 2 I had my staff mail it out saying it was going to 3 be effective on October 1st, giving them a whole 4 month notice that there was no longer funds 5 available. 6 And I'd like to back up -- I'm not 7 going to argue with you. I would just like to say 8 that yes, they did ask for assistance for Fiscal 9 Year 2009, one year. 2009 has come and gone. 10 I've not gotten any other money for that 11 assistance. This is Fiscal Year 2011. So I kept 12 them on my budget last year because I wanted to go 13 ahead and continue it. I thought it was a good 14 assistance if we had the money. But I did not get 15 my award letter until December of last year 16 because of the President's budget. 17 Well, once we get the award letter, 18 we also had cuts. I've explained it all to them. 19 It should be in your books. It was in my 20 September report, what went on at the meeting with 21 them. And the acting TA was there. Myself and 22 the childcare technician was in there. I had it 23 put in y'all's mailboxes. I had a full report of 24 what that meeting -- what happened at that 25 meeting. And I answered all their questions, I 109 1 told them why there was no money. They were only 2 -- that funding was only for one year. 3 MRS. TAHDOOAHNIPPAH: But why did it 4 continue on the budget if it was just for one 5 year? Then the next year that budget amount 6 stayed the same. What I'd like to add and what I 7 don't understand is every line item on our 8 budget -- 9 MS. CODOPONY: The budget did not 10 stay the same. 11 MRS. TAHDOOAHNIPPAH: It's an 12 economic development venture. If we're going to 13 keep these daycares and they're going to charge 14 full price and make money off Comanche employees 15 and make money off everybody, then we should move 16 them under economic development. But all of the 17 other programs -- 18 MS. CODOPONY: We're not out here to 19 make money. We're out here to provide a service. 20 MRS. TAHDOOAHNIPPAH: So we just want 21 to see if -- it isn't providing a service. 22 MS. CODOPONY: It is providing a 23 service to your families. 24 MRS. TAHDOOAHNIPPAH: But we're 25 charging them full price. We're being competitive 110 1 against other daycares in Lawton and they're 2 charging the exact same price. 3 MS. CODOPONY: Tribal childcare is an 4 allowable cost for CCDF funding. If you go in the 5 federal regulations, it's a direct service for our 6 families. We have two tribal facilities. It's a 7 direct service to our families. It's a service. 8 We're not in this to make millions of dollars. 9 MR. BURGESS: But these programs, you 10 collect CCDF funds per child, right? 11 MS. CODOPONY. We also -- when I get 12 my budget -- for example, this year it was 13 $357,000. I just got my award letter the end of 14 October. Finalizing my budget this week. I put 15 $175,000 for my low income families. The money 16 that we make at the childcare centers has to go 17 back to childcare. So with my program, the 18 daycare in Lawton, they opened up the daycare in 19 Apache. I have 16 employees I have to pay for. I 20 have to pay for indirect costs off that. I have 21 to pay y'all for indirect costs off of the money 22 that we make. Last year out of the CCDF budget 23 alone it was over $44,000. And so that money is 24 paying for staff and their benefits. 25 And my staff doesn't make very much 111 1 money. Right now I have 17 children on the 2 waiting list for low income families. What about 3 those people I had to stop adding back in December 4 last year? If we didn't have the over-income 5 expense this whole year, I could use the CNG money 6 to bring all the low income families off of my 7 waiting list. 8 MRS. TAHDOOAHNIPPAH: But also on her 9 CCDF waiting list is -- to get assistance for 10 daycare you can either -- you can qualify for 11 DHS. That should be the first line. If you 12 qualify you get -- 13 MS. CODOPONY: That doesn't have 14 anything to do with it. She's not understanding 15 how it works. 16 MRS. TAHDOOAHNIPPAH: To qualify for 17 CCDF, because you admitted it at our September 18 meeting. She admitted she has families that are 19 on the CCDF that could qualify for DHS funding. 20 That would open up slots on her CCDF funding and 21 she would be able to take more children. But she 22 doesn't make them go through DHS because that 23 would -- they would go after child support 24 payments for that other person, so they don't do 25 that. So that would open some of the slots. 112 1 MS. CODOPONY: She's overlooking the 2 whole purpose of tribal childcare. The CCDF 3 funding that the government, the U.S. government 4 has, they designate this pot of money for state, 5 which Indians, being a federally enrolled member 6 of an Indian tribe, you can still go and apply 7 through the state. But then they set aside 8 another pot of money for tribes so that our 9 families don't have to go through DHS and have to 10 go through the system. They can come to us, and 11 we set our own plan in place every two years that 12 we can meet the needs of our people, the unique 13 needs of our people. 14 MR. BURGESS: Now, is that the CCDF? 15 MS. CODOPONY: Yes. 16 MR. BURGESS: That's why we go for 17 CCDF, but it's up to the parent -- 18 MS. CODOPONY: But right now, those 19 people on the waiting list, they're having to go 20 through the system because we have a waiting list, 21 so they're not going to get help anywhere else. 22 They have to go to the state DHS, and their 23 co-payments are higher, and they have to pay more 24 than what they would pay if they were on our 25 program. That's why they want to be on our 113 1 program, because our co-payments are not as high 2 as the state. 3 MR. BURGESS: This $247,000 that we 4 give, how do you utilize that? 5 MS. CODOPONY: That's an early 6 childhood development center line item. When that 7 line item was put on the budget, it was for the 8 early childhood development center, but right now, 9 that money is paying for their childcare costs. 10 MRS. TAHDOOAHNIPPAH: Because it was 11 150 in 2008, and she's kept the program. But the 12 moneys has stayed the same. So I guess all we're 13 asking, all of the parents that have come, and 14 there's a lot of us out here that are tribal 15 employees. Bonnie and Anthony Monassey, and J.J. 16 and Len. There are a lot of employees. We just 17 want to find a solution that tribal employees and 18 other tribal families with multiple children can 19 get some sort of assistance, whether it be through 20 that program or it be a separate line item that we 21 can separate it next year on its own line item. 22 Or we can get a daycare here at the complex that 23 doesn't take DHS or doesn't take the CCDF funding 24 kids and you don't have all of those guidelines to 25 follow. 114 1 MR. BURGESS: If we did that, we 2 would have federal and state guidelines we'd have 3 to follow which requires a specific number of 4 teachers per number of pupils. 5 MRS. TAHDOOAHNIPPAH: Only if they 6 accept those funds. 7 MR. BURGESS: We still have to follow 8 laws that meet safety requirements, OSHA 9 standards, childcare standards. Those will come 10 into play. We still meet those whether we get 11 CCDF or DHS. We still have to meet those, and 12 those standards require -- might require most more 13 costs. 14 Now, we started this in 2002 by 15 sending the money to housing to supplement early 16 childhood development center. That's how it got 17 started. So when ANA funds fell, it came back to 18 the tribe, I think it was 2004 and 5. We brought 19 all of the staff over as a part of the nation 20 then, because the money was already -- they just 21 followed the money where it came from under CNG. 22 Now, CCDF, while it has its responsibilities, I'm 23 trying to read this and it seems like, yes, to you 24 all it's high. 25 MS. CODOPONY: The bottom line, 115 1 Chairman, is there's not enough money on my 2 budgets to carry it. And the low income families 3 are suffering and we've had a waiting list for 4 almost a year. 5 MR. BURGESS: Is this what we should 6 be looking at, too, evaluate the -- 7 MS. CODOPONY: That's a sliding fee 8 scale. 9 MR. BURGESS: This is your scale? 10 MS. CODOPONY: That's the sliding fee 11 scale. I have a better copy than that. They pay 12 5 percent of their monthly gross income minus $400 13 if both parents -- both parents have to be 14 working, attending or going to school. And 15 another thing is we have a two-year service 16 period, and they're following the low income 17 guidelines, policies and procedures. And I've had 18 some problems with the families with that, not 19 wanting to follow the same procedures that we have 20 in place with the low income families. 21 The other concern I have this year is 22 that our lease is ending with Numunu Turetu over 23 there, and that school -- I don't know what you 24 guys are going to do with us with that. That may 25 be another added expense. Where is that daycare 116 1 going to go to? I have all my staff and the 2 services we provide in Lawton, and we've had to 3 pump money continuously into that building that we 4 don't own and that we lease. What's going to 5 happen in March when our lease is done? Are we 6 going to have to spend more money on a new lease? 7 Are we going to just have to shut that daycare 8 down? 9 That's another very -- you know, I 10 have to think about all of the responsibilities I 11 have to all my low income participants, to all the 12 people we provide services in Lawton, and to all 13 the people we provide services in Apache. I don't 14 just make these decisions -- they do not come and 15 follow the procedures and policies that we have in 16 place. We have a waiting list right now. We've 17 had that waiting list since December with our low 18 income families. Now we have a waiting list for 19 them. 20 MRS. TAHDOOAHNIPPAH: Why does it 21 have to be about low income? Why can't it be the 22 tribe -- can all of you stand up that's on this 23 program? 24 MS. CODOPONY: I can tell you there 25 are 14 children in seven families on the over- 117 1 income. I have 18 children on my waiting list, 2 and I have 12 families waiting for services that 3 are low income. 4 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Repeat that one more 5 time. Repeat what you just said. 6 MS. CODOPONY: I have 18 children 7 that qualify for the low income assistance on my 8 waiting list. It started last December, almost a 9 year ago, and I have 12 families on that same 10 waiting list. We've been serving the over-income 11 families. I have seven families and 14 children. 12 If I use the money, if we kept them on my budget 13 all year, which I don't have money to keep them 14 past December, if I kept them on my budget all 15 year long, I could pull 15 of these 18 children 16 off right now and service them. 17 MR. BURGESS: Now servicing -- thank 18 you. 19 Servicing means that they still pay 20 the higher price and you bring the other students 21 in to pay the supplemental price. I'm using the 22 word supplemental because -- 23 MS. CODOPONY: What I'm saying is I 24 can bring these low income children off of the 25 waiting list and pay for them all year for what 118 1 we're paying for them. 2 MR. BURGESS: We're paying for them 3 being involved in the program under tribal funds? 4 MS. CODOPONY: It's coming out of the 5 early childhood development center's line item, 6 which should be used for the center. That's what 7 the money -- that's what the tribe votes on every 8 year. It's the early childhood development 9 centers. They ask for additional funding. 10 100,000 in FY 2009. Mia Monenerkit Tahdooahnippah 11 brought it from the floor and asked to increase 12 the ECDC line item by 100,000 to service over- 13 income families, but that was the only year. That 14 year it did not get spent up, so it went back into 15 the pot. 16 MRS. TAHDOOAHNIPPAH: All over-income 17 is is parents that can't qualify for DHS. And if 18 one parent works, you can't qualify for DHS. 19 MS. CODOPONY: Both parents have to 20 be working, attending school or going to 21 training. 22 MR. TOMASO: I just want to say 23 something, Mr. Chairman, to the board. I fell 24 victim to this. We had another baby, but I 25 couldn't afford it, so my wife worked for the 119 1 Comanche Nation Museum for over two years for 2 Phyllis Wahahrockah. I had to pull her. She put 3 her resignation in because we'll have two of them 4 in there, so I can't afford it. My wife's a 5 victim of this, so we lost out. 6 MR. REDELK: Identify yourself for 7 her. 8 MR. TOMASO: Tomaso. I just wanted 9 to mention that, we couldn't do it. And my wife 10 is no longer employed at the nation, so she's 11 going to be a stay-at-home mom if this isn't 12 resolved. 13 MS. CODOPONY: I just want to say for 14 the record that I received an e-mail that she gave 15 you a copy of on Thursday, the one that she was 16 talking about at the beginning. I received that 17 she had sent it to B.J. and cc'd me. I answered 18 her, and all I told her was that I was finalizing 19 my budget at this time. At the meeting in 20 September, the acting TA told the whole group that 21 we would keep their co-payment the same, we would 22 carry them through December, which I have allowed 23 on my budget this year, and that we would go from 24 there. And I never did say that -- I'm trying to 25 give them a heads-up that, yes, we do have money 120 1 through December, but after that, we don't have 2 money for it. 3 I told her in that e-mail also that I 4 have not even discussed it with the acting TA 5 yet. At the very bottom of that e-mail I said 6 that once my final budget is signed and approved, 7 then I will notify her and let her know when the 8 over-income assistance will officially end. I am 9 not making all these decisions by myself. I 10 always go to my supervisor and I follow the chain, 11 and I just don't want -- I just want to make it 12 clear for the record that I'm not sitting over 13 here making those decisions, that I have something 14 against them. The bottom line is there's not 15 money in my budget, there's never been money past 16 that one fiscal year for it two years ago. 17 MR. BURGESS: Mia, Tanisha, thank you 18 very much. I know you have a lot of commentary, 19 but Mr. Owens raised his hand. 20 MR. OWENS: I have a question for 21 Carolyn real quick. We've got relatives that 22 watch their kids and we pay them. Is that gaming 23 money or is it federal money? 24 MS. CODOPONY: That's federal money. 25 Right now, we only have one real provider who's 121 1 still on the program. We've cut down on that 2 because of the concerns. I don't have enough 3 staff to go out into the field to monitor that. I 4 don't have enough funds. That's why I'm doing a 5 dual. I am the director of the CCDF program, but 6 I don't have enough money to hire someone to run 7 Apache, so I'm running Apache, too. I'm doing two 8 people's job. If I had enough money in my budget, 9 I'd hire somebody to run it down there. I'm short 10 staffed. 11 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Mr. Chairman, this 12 is just a case in point. It reflects the whole 13 budget of the Comanche Tribe. It started actually 14 last year when the offices and the departments 15 were told to cut back. From this point forward, 16 it's only going to get worse and worse and worse. 17 The revenues are not there anymore, so we're going 18 to have to be very wise in how we spend the money. 19 I just don't know where we're going to get some of 20 the money to help the folks, but we are in a tough 21 pickle right now. 22 MR. ATTOCKNIE: That's why, a part of 23 why the grants program was developed or put in 24 place is to try to get moneys from other agencies 25 or any other possible place to help supplement our 122 1 tribal program, to help supplement them. Okay? 2 Right now, we are going to be in a budget crunch, 3 a lot. If you look at even our budget for next 4 year, a lot of these programs that depend 5 completely on CNG money, they're going to really 6 be cut. There needs to be more of an effort along 7 with some people that have, you know, planning 8 experience, so forth, that we can work with. 9 Okay? We're going to have to start seriously 10 looking at finding funds to continue these 11 programs. The youth program: The youth program 12 needs help. They're going to be out. Our 13 prescription assistance depends on -- optometry, 14 all of these programs that exist, diabetes, part 15 of the diabetes program -- that exist solely on 16 CNG moneys. As you see now, because of less 17 revenue coming in from the casino, then that makes 18 going after some of these funds -- 19 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Also, Phyllis, let 20 me just -- there's been a change in the atmosphere 21 both in the natural and the spiritual realm with 22 the elections. There is plans in the federal 23 government to reduce the budget by 7 to 12 24 percent. So there's no guarantees federal money, 25 if we go after federal grants, are going to be in 123 1 there in the future. So we're in a real pinch to 2 find moneys for the programs that people need and 3 want. We are looking for alternatives in economic 4 development. Things are in the planning. 5 But the casino days, that market has 6 matured and plateaued out. The federal grants, 7 they're coming maybe to a slow halt. Maybe fire 8 staff or furlough staff, but we're having to make 9 some tough decisions right now. 10 MRS. GOODIN: Last month the language 11 group received a letter from the chairman's office 12 along with seven other programs that stated we 13 would be levied a 1 percent administrative fee. I 14 sat down and added up the total of all eight of 15 those programs, and that comes to nearly 16 $100,000. 17 My question is, where is that 18 $100,000 going? Because there is not anything 19 like that on our budget that we didn't get to vote 20 on, but can something be put towards that 21 program? Because what I'm sitting here hearing, 22 and this is the first I'm hearing about this, is 23 that we are penalizing our Comanche families for 24 trying to get out and make a good living for those 25 children. I just cannot see that we can sit 124 1 back. One young lady has already had to quit her 2 job. You know, we need to -- whenever the times 3 get tough, we need to dig in our pockets a little 4 bit deeper and try to help these families out. 5 I realize the diabetes program needs 6 help, some of the other programs that help the 7 Comanche people in general, but I really feel for 8 these young families, because they're trying to 9 raise their kids. I don't know what I would do if 10 we had to face this when we were raising our 11 family. I really think we need to sit down. You 12 guys need to sit down and see what you can do to 13 help. And where is that $100,000 going that's 14 coming out of the language program and the other 15 programs? I'd like to know that. 16 MR. BURGESS: Let me respond to 17 that. It's not $100,000. There's only three 18 programs affected: Economic Development, Comanche 19 Nation Enterprises -- Comanche Nation Enterprises 20 Corporation, Comanche Nation Economic Development, 21 museum body, and the college. Only four 22 entities. Those entities are in the jargon just 23 pass through. That money just comes to us and we 24 pass it out. Well, last year, our accounting 25 firm, Finley & Cook, recommended that we withhold 125 1 25 percent indirect cost rate, but we said no, 2 those entities needed that. Those plans they have 3 in place, they needed that. The 1 percent 4 applied to language preservation committee, that 5 should not have been applied, because we're 6 looking at the larger programs. So it's not going 7 to be applied, say that. 8 So there's only four entities, and 9 these entities get large amounts of money. And 10 because gaming is down over the state, around 10 11 percent, our gaming is down approximately 5 12 percent compared to everybody else being down 10 13 or more. That sounds good, but it's not good, 14 because overall play is down. So at the same 15 time, we're not getting what's budgeted that's on 16 the paper budget. We don't get the full amount. 17 We don't get all that. All right? We're getting 18 a monthly drawdown, but we don't get 100 percent 19 of what was planned. So we're only passing out 20 back to the programs only that amount that we can 21 give. 22 Now, we started out last year giving 23 100 percent of everything earned, but in six 24 months later, again, we got hit in 2010 like the 25 Nation got hit in 2009 when all of these programs 126 1 wanted everything on the budget. But the bottom 2 line or the actual bottom line last year, total 3 income from gaming was projected at 29 million. 4 The bottom line was 23 million. 5 But everybody wants 100 percent of 6 their line item. So all directors and all 7 programs, every program has to look at the actual 8 received, not the budget. 9 MRS. TAHDOOAHNIPPAH: And we realize 10 that and that's all we're asking, is that there 11 are some line items that really, really, really 12 help tribal members and tribal families and tribal 13 children, and then there's some programs that get 14 more money that don't do anything for any of us, 15 or any tribal members across the board. I mean, I 16 don't want to call any out and be specific. I 17 mean, I could. But you know that you can look at 18 this and you can see that there are some programs 19 on here that you wonder what exactly services do 20 they offer. 21 MR. BURGESS: Okay. We're coming to 22 the point of this big discussion here and it needs 23 to go to the community, what the priorities are. 24 Because the priorities in the past when everybody 25 thought we had $50 million to spend and you stood 127 1 up at the floor of the tribal council and 2 presented these line items, and we are bound by 3 constitution to accept them, there was no 4 planning, no discussion went on. Now come 2011 5 and the BIA approves 60 percent per cap, and our 6 children need more help, our elders want more 7 help, we want more scholarship funds, our building 8 is falling down around us, but people want per 9 cap. 10 So we've got to come back to the 11 community. You all need to figure out why you 12 need 60 percent per cap, because it's going to go 13 down when you add 600 people a year and the elders 14 are increasing and they get that before per cap is 15 distributed. We already see the hard times 16 coming, and this is one that we feel is very 17 important, the childcare program. So it is going 18 to be up to you all, the families. Do you want us 19 to help you with childcare or do you want to get 20 less and less per cap. 21 MRS. TAHDOOAHNIPPAH: I voted no on 22 the per cap. 23 MR. BURGESS: My question to Carolyn 24 here is, Carolyn, if we continue this program, how 25 much is it going to cost us to keep these families 128 1 and yet you're limited by the number of children 2 that can come into the program, correct? 3 MS. CODOPONY: Right now we have a 4 waiting list for both. I'm only able to bring in 5 children as children fall off the program. Let's 6 say one of the parents quit working or quit going 7 to school. They're not eligible anymore for the 8 low income or the over income. Then we drop them 9 from the program. Then I can bring one more child 10 on. That's the way I'm doing it now. 11 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: This question is how 12 much would you project if you were to keep these 13 people on over 12 months? 14 MR. BURGESS: How much is it going to 15 cost if we keep going? Any idea? Let her figure 16 my question out, because I'm trying to keep it 17 simple. 18 MS. CODOPONY: With the children we 19 have right now, not adding all the new babies that 20 were just born, which I think there's two or three 21 of them, not adding them, just the children that 22 are on there now, the 14 children, is $57,364 to 23 carry them through December, not adding any more 24 children. 25 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Say that again one 129 1 more time. 2 MS. CODOPONY: 57,364. 3 MR. BURGESS: If you were to add more 4 children, how many teachers or how much more space 5 do you need? 6 MS. CODOPONY: I need more staff in 7 Apache. I need at least two more staff in Apache. 8 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I can't take 9 any more babies at the Lawton center until I have 10 another baby teacher. I only have one baby 11 teacher and she's only allowed to have four 12 babies. I have six babies on the waiting list 13 that can't get in. I'm the site director at the 14 Lawton facility. 15 MR. BURGESS: Now, you see, folks, 16 this is our dilemma, where to get more help to 17 bring in more teachers, where to find more space 18 to bring in more students. We can't do it -- 19 MRS. TAHDOOAHNIPPAH: Carolyn, how 20 many Comanche or how many people do you have in 21 your Lawton that is on the CCDF or the low 22 income? 23 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I only have 24 two families on my over income and I have 11 25 families on the CCDF program. I have seven 130 1 families on the private pay program and those 2 private pay families get discounts. They've 3 always gotten a discount. If you're a Comanche 4 member, you get a discount. You don't pay the 5 rate that nontribal members or the tribal pay. 6 You pay the tribal member discount. If you have 7 more than one kid, you get a discount. 8 MRS. TAHDOOAHNIPPAH: $2. 9 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Everybody else 10 doesn't see that discount. 11 MS. CODOPONY: Just the Comanche 12 families do it. It was 25 percent until we raised 13 our rates last December or January. Was it 14 January? March. Last March it was 25 percent. 15 We raised our rates, got our rates increased, to 16 match up our new plan, our federal plan, and then 17 we lowered it to 15 percent. So there has always 18 been a discount for Comanche families using our 19 facilities. 20 MR. BURGESS: But what we're hearing 21 is the discount really isn't helping that much if 22 you're both working. It hurts you even more. If 23 you got a discount, it's not enough is what I'm 24 hearing. 25 MRS. TAHDOOAHNIPPAH: Now they're 131 1 going to do away with the program, so it's going 2 to hurt a whole bunch of us. Then we have our 3 daycares that are servicing 11 children. 4 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Not 11 5 children, 11 families. 6 MR. BURGESS: Hang on. It's clear 7 we're not going to have a decision today. We have 8 to sit down and look at these budgets and plan 9 this out. There was a question back here, and 10 Mr. Owens was going to make a statement and Sally, 11 too. 12 MR. OWENS: Housing created this 13 program, is that accurate? 14 MR. BURGESS: Yes. 15 MR. OWENS: And we're paying housing 16 money? 17 MR. BURGESS: We're leasing the 18 building from housing. 19 MR. OWENS: We voted on X amount of 20 dollars a year to give them? 21 MR. BURGESS: No longer. The staff 22 became a part of the tribe in '05. It was our 23 money anyway, so we brought them over here. 24 MR. OWENS: Well, the housing 25 authority technically is the tribe. 132 1 MR. BURGESS: No, they're a separate 2 body. They're a state body. They're a HUD-funded 3 program. They can't handle this project under 4 their umbrella of HUD. 5 MR. OWENS: You get money in the 6 Comanche Nation name, though; is that right? 7 MRS. TONIPS: Not the amount that's 8 on the budget. Like we had 2 percent taken out of 9 our last drawdown. 10 MR. OWENS: Well, that's the 11 problem -- 12 MRS. TONIPS: And also I had a 13 comment about Carolyn, her statement about they're 14 paying money out. If it's under our agreement, 15 our contract, have you turned all those expenses 16 into us, then? I mean, you should be coordinating 17 with us. 18 MS. CODOPONY: Many times. 19 MR. BURGESS: That's a different 20 subject. Leave that alone. Leave that aside. 21 MRS. TONIPS: Also, I want to let you 22 know, two months ago, I believe it was, we voted 23 to get an appraisal on the property to sell. 24 MR. BURGESS: Right, to look into 25 selling. 133 1 MRS. TONIPS: Because like you guys, 2 we're hurting because we're spending money that's 3 not on -- 4 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Not on the 5 building. 6 MS. CODOPONY: Not on the building 7 you're not. 8 MR. BURGESS: Let's leave that 9 alone. We know where that lease is. Mr. Owens, 10 you said -- we've got to keep going here. It's an 11 important topic, but we can't make a decision 12 today because we have to look at all the 13 parameters here. Mr. Owens, was that all you had? 14 MR. OWENS: That's it. 15 MRS. BURGESS: I just have one more 16 comment. Yeah, we are what, seven or eight 17 families that are currently on this program? 18 There are more families out there that need this 19 program just as much as we do. And she quit 20 taking -- she quit taking families I don't know 21 when, and there is even -- I was even told by one 22 family that needed this program a year ago when we 23 got on it, when we all started paying all this 24 co-pay, they told them there was no such program, 25 that the program never even existed. 134 1 MS. CODOPONY: That is not true. 2 MRS. BURGESS: So we're getting 3 individuals that are getting told either this 4 program doesn't exist or they're done with the 5 program. So we're not the only families that need 6 this program. 7 MR. BURGESS: We're going to get 8 Mr. TA and Ms. Codopony here to sit down and 9 discuss this with y'all. We've got to go over a 10 plan of action. We know it hurts you, but we just 11 don't have any resources left to keep doing this. 12 And the building, you know, housing has said well, 13 would y'all want to buy it. The only way we can 14 do it is renting it, lease purchase option, but 15 then it's not the best building. It's got wear 16 and tear on it, we know that. So let us look at 17 our options. 18 Just to let y'all know, we submitted 19 a grant last month to Health and Human Services 20 for a complete new community services building to 21 house various agencies, and one of them is another 22 childcare center. So we could add more children 23 to our program, but it would be right here. That 24 would be beneficial to a lot of employees and our 25 personnel that live here and drive to Lawton. 135 1 MRS. TAHDOOAHNIPPAH: To me, I have 2 three children that are daycare age. And at the 3 rate 28 to $30 a day, you're looking at over 1,800 4 a month in childcare. I'm just trying to put it 5 in perspective that the program helps families, 6 helps the tribal employees most of all, is that 7 one of us is going to be quitting work to stay 8 home, because that's what it's going to result in. 9 MR. BURGESS: We understand that. 10 Mr. Owens will be getting with Carolyn and maybe 11 two or three of your parents as spokespersons to 12 look at some options here. 13 MS. NARCOMEY: I was supposed to be 14 on the October agenda. I don't know what 15 happened, but no one told me if it was cancelled 16 or if it had another date. But what I called 17 Mr. Tippeconnie about sometime ago was I wanted to 18 talk about land. It's about two or three 19 allotments, and one of them involves a former 20 committeeman and I can't say that part in public. 21 So if I can't be in executive session today, I'd 22 like to be on the December agenda. 23 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Executive session? 24 MS. NARCOMEY: Yes. 25 MR. BURGESS: Can we move her down to 136 1 executive? 2 MS. NARCOMEY: And for now, I'm 3 asking for a resolution to nominate the Comanche 4 Indian Mission Cemetery to the National Register 5 of Historic Places and to submit the nomination 6 application. And end up with the -- it is the 7 desire of the CBC that the designated federal 8 preservation officer at Fort Sill nominate the 9 Comanche Nation Indian Mission Cemetery to the 10 National Register of Historic Places and to submit 11 the nomination application pursuant to the 12 National Historic Preservation Act of 1996. 13 Now therefore be it resolved that the 14 Comanche Business Committee hereby approve and 15 adopt this resolution. The foregoing resolution 16 was adopted at a regular meeting at a Comanche 17 Business Committee held on the 6th day of November 18 at the Comanche Tribal complex by majority. This 19 is a vote. The National Register is very 20 important to the tribe and to the cemetery. It is 21 115 years old, and Fort Sill doesn't want it to be 22 on the national register. It has strict rules 23 that they have to go by. They have done nothing 24 all these 115 years, so they want to continue 25 that. But we want a change. We have hopes for 137 1 our cemetery to be better than what it is. 2 The Sioux at Wounded Knee, they have 3 a monument that contains all the names on one 4 large monument of those people that were killed by 5 the Army in the 1800s. Recently my daughter and I 6 attended the Tonkawa Tribe. They had a cemetery 7 where Chief Sousa was with the Tonkawa seven 8 years, and many of their people died, so they have 9 their own cemetery on the Tonkawa reservation. 10 This monument has almost an identical 11 monument that the Wounded Knee people have, and I 12 want ours to be similar to that with little -- I 13 don't know what you call it, but anyway, our 14 people deserve this. They fought for the land, 15 and so I'm asking for the CBC to nominate this 16 today. We've waited too long. Thank you. 17 MR. BURGESS: Thomas, we'll need a 18 copy of that resolution. 19 MR. THOMAS NARCOMEY: We've been at 20 this a long time. Since 2007? It was presented 21 in October -- September, and then Mark said wait 22 60 days and present it, so we waited 60 days to 23 present it. And anyway, this resolution is the 24 exact same wording as the resolution that the 25 council passed in April 2007. So we have an 138 1 approved -- well, not official, because they lost 2 the minutes. Water spilled on that dictation 3 machine and they don't know official, but it was 4 an approved resolution, exact wording. So asking 5 the CBC to recognize that resolution and -- 6 because that was I think 177 to zero. And a 7 council resolution has more authority than the CBC 8 resolution, whatever the quorum is on the 9 council. So that's what we're asking. 10 Like I said, we've presented this I 11 don't know how many times. This is about the 12 fifth, sixth, seventh time. I lost count. I'm 13 trying again. A couple of months ago, 14 Mr. Tippeconnie wanted to be on the agenda. So 15 now Mr. Wauahdooah said wait 60 days, and we said 16 okay, well, here's 60 days. 17 MR. TIPPECONNIE: If we remember, you 18 know -- Mr. Clark, I don't want to speak for him, 19 but he's here. You know, he's working with the 20 general and Fort Sill to do some things at the 21 cemetery. 22 MR. TOM NARCOMEY: That's why 23 Mr. Wauahdooah said 60 days and we would submit 24 the application. 25 MR. TIPPECONNIE: We were withholding 139 1 with that consideration, if you remember. My 2 question is -- I want to ask a question, first of 3 all. What I hear Gladys saying, if there's to be 4 a monument at the location, it should be one 5 monument. I know it can be after, but I just have 6 a question. If there's to be a monument, put all 7 the names on one monument. The reason I bring 8 that up, as I understand Mr. Clark, there's 9 another consideration on the identification. Is 10 there? Other than a singular monument? 11 MR. CLARK: Well, all the graves and 12 the persons known in the graves will be on one 13 single sign and monument. I wouldn't call it a 14 monument, but it's on a sign. That shows the plat 15 of where the graves are so one can identify 16 exactly where a certain person is buried. In 17 addition to that, there are a number of persons to 18 whom -- for whom we do not know exactly where 19 they're buried but know that they are there, and 20 that will be on a separate monument. More or less 21 a list of -- I think it's about somewhere between 22 10 and 14 people that we know are buried there, 23 but we don't know which graves they are in. So 24 that will be a monument for that purpose. Plus 25 the other names will be there. 140 1 MR. TOM NARCOMEY: Same as the 2 Otipoby Cemetery. 3 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Those things are 4 okay? That kind of -- that's okay? 5 MS. NARCOMEY: Did I understand the 6 part to say there were 14 people? 7 MR. NARCOMEY: Unknown. 8 MS. NARCOMEY: You said there were 14 9 people. 10 MR. BURGESS: Unknown. 11 MR. CLARK: Working with you, Gladys, 12 and a couple of other people, we've identified 13 some people who we know are buried there. You 14 told me that these people are buried there. So I 15 made the list of those people, including the 16 people that you named, and Fort Sill is willing to 17 put those names on a separate monument and 18 recognize that they're buried there but we don't 19 know which graves they're buried in. This is 20 exactly what you and I talked about. 21 MS. NARCOMEY: I'm talking about the 22 Comanche Indian Mission Cemetery. The Dutch 23 Reform Church started that church and cemetery. 24 The preacher at that time was Reverend Harper, and 25 he kept the list of the Comanches that are in 141 1 there. And there's approximately 200. He kept 2 this and Gillette Griswald also kept records of 3 it. He gave our cemetery association all the file 4 papers he had in files. That was the most 5 important thing, was the list of the names of the 6 people. And Sammy Devinney helped our cemetery 7 organization with the names, especially the ones 8 Griswald gave us. That's the cemetery I'm talking 9 about. 10 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Mr. Chairman, I'd 11 like to direct this question to Mr. Clark. If the 12 60 days passed, does this accommodate Fort Sill, 13 does this accommodate you on this delay? 14 MR. CLARK: I would like to carry you 15 through all the steps that have been going on. 16 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Please speak. 17 MR. CLARK: We have met with Fort 18 Sill twice on what they call a consultation 19 package. That package went to the state 20 historical preservation officer. After that 21 package, there were certain requirements that Fort 22 Sill has placed upon us. We're working now and 23 have a meeting with the chairman on Tuesday at 24 10 o'clock on how we can move forward to meet Fort 25 Sill's current requirement for this project to 142 1 move forward. It seems like every time we take 2 one step, they move two steps backwards. But 3 we're staying with them on every step. 4 And within I'd say a few days after 5 meeting with the chairman, I expect that we will 6 have a meeting with the general. I will speak 7 without his authority, but I think he is helping 8 us get this project done. There are lots of 9 federal regulations that have to be met, and these 10 regulations have different interpretations. Fort 11 Sill interprets it one way, the state historic 12 preservation office interprets it another way. I 13 am in contact with the advisory council on 14 historic preservation and they have greed to 15 answer some questions that I've offered to them by 16 midpoint next week. So things are moving, I'm 17 working on it. 18 You know, to impose a 60-day 19 limitation on the Army is -- I've been working on 20 it four years as of November the 1st. So whether 21 the Army is going to move in 60 days, or move from 22 what we talked about 60 days ago, there's been a 23 lot of things happen, Mark, since that time. But 24 we're not there yet. We just ask, again, for the 25 patience and support of this group that we're 143 1 going to get there, we're going to get the various 2 things that Ms. Narcomey and others have been 3 seeking since 1984. 4 I have compiled all of the minutes 5 from those meetings that she and others had 6 attended. In addition to that, I compiled some 7 minutes that were not available to her that I got 8 from Kim Karty, and I've cataloged those. And I 9 have minutes of this group, probably not complete, 10 but that go back to 1984. And nothing in those 11 minutes is different than what we've been 12 seeking. And what we've been seeking is going to 13 be good for the Comanche Tribe and for those 114 14 people that are buried there. 15 We're going to get unfettered access, 16 access that we can go out to that cemetery at any 17 time without going through a locked gate and being 18 escorted to this graveyard. We're going to get 19 these markers that she's asking for. Everything 20 that that group asked for are the things that 21 we're working on. 22 In addition to that, there are some 23 other things, what I call my list of 10, that we 24 are going to get. But we just need the patience 25 and cooperation of this body and the patience and 144 1 corporation of our membership in general and stand 2 behind us and we'll get this done. But to impose 3 an arbitrary 60 days or something with the Army, I 4 just can't tell you, Mark. It's -- well, four 5 years and counting, I'll say that. 6 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Mr. Clark, if this 7 nomination or this resolution were passed today, 8 does that impact or how does that affect you? 9 MR. CLARK: I think it does. I think 10 you all have already stated your position. That 11 position has been conveyed to the general. The 12 general said that that is huge. In other words, 13 what you did was huge and helpful. There are 14 disagreements even within Fort Sill as to whether 15 what you pass is sufficient. Then that's what we 16 want to talk with the chairman about on next 17 Tuesday. So we've got to make it sufficient, 18 we've got to move forward. As far as I am 19 concerned, I think we're on track, but I can't 20 give you a date whenever this is going to -- 21 MR. TIPPECONNIE: But you're again 22 saying if we act on it today, it puts us in 23 some -- 24 MR. CLARK: It just muddies the 25 water. It does. 145 1 MR. TOM NARCOMEY: As far as I'm 2 concerned, let's move forward on this thing and 3 pass a resolution and put it -- nominate it. I 4 think everybody agrees that it should be on the 5 national register, so why not do the nomination 6 application? Because we're going to get the same 7 things anyway. Go to the Otipoby Cemetery and go 8 look over there. We have access and we have a 9 monument, and they take care of the cemetery. 10 Yeah, go over there and look at it. That's what 11 we want. That's what they'll do. And recognize 12 that resolution in 2007 that 177 enrolled 13 Comanches voted and approved, because that 14 resolution's above the CBC resolution. I don't 15 think the CBC had authority to put a stop to it 16 the last time, so I'm just saying follow that 17 council resolution. 18 And we need to put on the next April 19 meeting the same resolution so that way we'll have 20 more people to show that wants it on the national 21 register. I mean, you go try do a petition and 22 get -- say we have 250. That's going to take a 23 month. So it's just best to go ahead and do it at 24 the council. I mean, in addition to this one that 25 you may approve today, it ain't going to hurt. 146 1 Anything that helps, do it. 2 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Thomas, Gladys, 3 Mike's going to meet with the military people and 4 Mr. Clark. 5 MR. TOM NARCOMEY: We waited since 6 2007. 7 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: If we did delay 8 today, but on Tuesday we put the question directly 9 to the general, if it is the general. Is it 10 Hagerton? 11 MR. TIPPECONNIE: No, he won't be 12 there. 13 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: But if you meet with 14 these military officials, are they going to be 15 here or over there? 16 MR. BURGESS: We're going to meet 17 with Mr. Clark and Towana Spivey. 18 MR. TOM NARCOMEY: I agree with 19 Clyde. What did he say? At the Medicine Bluff 20 they're trying to do that supply building. And 21 how long does it take Fort Sill to move? I don't 22 know how long it's been. 10 years and they got 23 all that whole Fort Sill military land. They 24 should have built a building way somewhere else by 25 now. I don't know how long it's took. Ten years 147 1 or more, 12? 2 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Spivey, where does 3 he stand on this issue? 4 MR. CLARK: He's on our side. 5 MR. BURGESS: He's very supportive. 6 MR. CLARK: He's put his neck on the 7 line. He is, in my view, when he stood up for 8 Medicine Bluff and testified up there in court and 9 we saw him, we saw him testify, Bob, I think you 10 may have been there and others. He put his neck, 11 his job on the line to support the Comanche Nation 12 Tribe. He is clearly and absolutely behind this 13 project 100 percent. He has had conversations 14 with the general, with the garrison commander. 15 They have -- for a long time after 16 Medicine Bluff, Towana Spivey was ostracized and 17 blackballed within the leadership out there. I 18 kept after them and insisted that he be involved. 19 When General David Hoverson came in last year, we 20 had a meeting with him, and I asked him 21 pointblank, face-to-face, man-to-man, will you 22 please get Towana Spivey back into the picture. 23 He is being consulted now. He is on our side 100 24 percent. 25 MR. TOM NARCOMEY: If he wants to put 148 1 it on the national register, I say go ahead and 2 approve the resolution to put it in the national 3 register. 4 MR. CLARK: I stood before this body 5 and said that I pledge that I will do everything 6 that I can to get this on the national register. 7 MR. TOM NARCOMEY: When the Otipoby 8 Cemetery was put on the national register, this 9 CBC didn't put a stop to the application. So why 10 -- you'll get the same whatever you call it, 11 access. The same thing. 12 MR. CLARK: The action that this body 13 took, I don't interpret to be a stop. It's just a 14 postponement. Wait until it's the time to do it. 15 Right now is not the time to do it, believe me. 16 Trust me. 17 MR. TOM NARCOMEY: Then it's going to 18 take a while to put it on the national register. 19 It's not going to be overnight. It's going to 20 take a while. 21 MR. BURGESS: It goes to the state 22 office first, state preservation, the state SHPO 23 will look at it before it even goes to the 24 register. 25 MR. TOM NARCOMEY: We submitted one 149 1 and Fort Sill said it qualifies. Before they said 2 no, it don't qualify, so that's the best news we 3 ever heard. So we need to do it. Yeah, we were 4 denied first and then they said okay. So Fort 5 Sill wants to do it. 6 MR. BURGESS: We have the resolution 7 presented here and read by Ms. Narcomey. Thank 8 you, Auntie. Gentlemen, what is your pleasure? 9 MR. NARCOMEY: I'll make a motion to 10 pass that. Because this is one reason I know for 11 sure at that time in the '80s, all through the 12 '90s, I was a supervisor at Fort Sill over four 13 buildings, which is that warehouse they're talking 14 about building at the Medicine Bluff that we put a 15 stop to. We was talking about that. Combine them 16 warehouses into one big warehouse back in the '80s 17 and '90s. And they're just now last year trying 18 to build it. So, you know, Clark here says it 19 could take a while. I know it can, because I was 20 the supervisor at them buildings, and I put in for 21 a new building and we're just waiting on the 22 money. So here we are 25 years later, they're 23 just now starting to build the thing. So we're 24 going to be sitting here I would say at least 15 25 more years. Hell, I'll probably be dead by then. 150 1 We'll be sitting and talking about the same 2 thing. The general council approved it. I think 3 we ought to just go ahead and follow their lead. 4 MR. BURGESS: Let me make a 5 correction on that. Tribal council approved that, 6 not general council. Well, gentlemen, it's up to 7 y'all. 8 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Well, you know 9 what? 10 MR. BURGESS: Make a motion and a 11 second. 12 MR. TIPPECONNIE: I have to add 13 this. I know there's still a question. I don't 14 know if you know, Mr. Clark, but I know there's 15 still a question at the fort itself, you know, on 16 what the nomination might do at this point in 17 time. I know there's that question, because the 18 garrison commander has expressed that, that Fort 19 Sill will do what the nation wants done. They 20 will make the nomination. It's just that there's 21 this question what does it do on what you're 22 doing. That is a question. Does it affect that? 23 Well, we talked to the National Park 24 Service, you know, the one that's going to say yes 25 or no to the nominations in Washington, D.C. A 151 1 number of us were on the call. When we talked to 2 them, they said what's important on the site is 3 the integrity. Don't do anything to the graves. 4 You know, don't do anything to the graves. Keep 5 them with the integrity. That's the important 6 part of that cemetery. So other things like the 7 fencing, the ingress, egress, that kind of thing, 8 that doesn't seem to be the jeopardy. 9 MR. CLARK: In all due respect, I 10 would like to say to you that who did something to 11 those graves? Fort Sill did something to those 12 graves. Fort Sill covered up those graves. Fort 13 Sill took down the upright markers over those 14 graves. Fort Sill landed airplanes on top of 15 those graves. I've got this documentation. This 16 documentation wasn't available four years ago 17 until I started working on this. They did that. 18 And now if we're saying well, we don't want to do 19 something to those graves -- we've got Otipoby, 20 we've got Eschiti, we've got Deyo, we've got all 21 these cemeteries around here, Indian cemeteries, 22 and here we've got this one out here that is 23 marked by what? Four metal posts that you can buy 24 at Lowe's Hardware for $3.95. That's all we've 25 got out there, and I've been working four years to 152 1 get this cemetery made into a real cemetery. Take 2 off the soil that Fort Sill deliberately put on 3 top of those graves. Give us access to that 4 cemetery where they have had it in a secure area 5 since 1915. This is going to happen if you will 6 support me and stand by me. Please. 7 MR. TOM NARCOMEY: Fort Sill tried to 8 remove them graves back in 1990. We went through 9 this and as far as they dug up a whole bunch of 10 graves around that place. I mean, you know, it 11 was in the newspaper. I think it was in the 12 summer of '87 when that started happening. So 13 Fort Sill has done a lot. I mean, you know, no 14 respect for our graves. 15 And then there was a BRAC 16 construction worker that said he found a skull and 17 bones when they were working on Rogers Lane, and 18 he reported it to Fort Sill and they didn't do 19 nothing about it. I mean, I trust my father what 20 he said, and he was a Christian man. I don't 21 doubt -- I mean, I'm pretty sure it's true. 22 MR. BURGESS: You know, even passing 23 this resolution it will be 90 days before we can 24 get our total package together. It's going to 25 take evidence, it's going to take a response. 153 1 It's going to take time. Because we've got to 2 put -- 3 MR. TOM NARCOMEY: Fort Sill wants to 4 do it anyway. 5 MR. BURGESS: Even Fort Sill being 6 supportive, they have these things we have to mark 7 according to the requested information. That's 8 going to be some history on it. Even passing this 9 resolution, we're not going to get it done 10 tomorrow. It's going to take us, I think, until 11 February or March to respond to the two items that 12 I know of at least the base wants. But just 13 passing this regulation is letting our people know 14 we're supportive and it shows the base that we 15 want them, that we're with them, and encouraging 16 them to go ahead with this. We'll be lucky to get 17 a nomination out before March of next year because 18 of the information package that's required. 19 There's going to be a package that we have to fill 20 out, Wahnee. They send us sample questions and we 21 have to justify it. So we're not even going to be 22 getting on the agenda for the historic national 23 parks service until next spring at the earliest. 24 Our resolution is just telling the Fort that we 25 support it and we have to -- 154 1 MR. CLARK: In October of 2008, this 2 body directed your preservation officer to seek 3 the nomination to the National Register of 4 Historic Preservation for this cemetery. October 5 2008. Nothing happened. Nothing happened. I'll 6 bet you, and I'm not a betting man, but there's 7 not a folder of the effort to push this thing 8 forward since 2008. But I can take you to my 9 room, my home, and I can show you four-ring 10 binders, two-inch ring binders of letters, 11 memorandum. Every time Fort Sill hiccuped out 12 there, we wrote it down. I've got documentation. 13 We talk about what people say or someone said and 14 so on. I don't do that. I go and get the actual 15 documents. I've got the records. I've done the 16 research. I've traveled to find out what's 17 necessary to get this done. I've got the respect 18 of the general out there. I just need your help. 19 I just never imagined that I would have to fight 20 my own tribe to get something done for 114 21 Comanches who are buried and have been forgotten 22 for 95 years. I just can't imagine that. 23 MR. BURGESS: We had a statement back 24 here. 25 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I just wanted 155 1 to know, is this another program that's going to 2 need Comanche funding each month of the year? 3 MR. BURGESS: I don't think so. 4 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: When it could 5 be used for these poor people that's claiming that 6 they need childcare funding. 7 MR. BURGESS: No, it wouldn't be that 8 way. 9 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: We don't need 10 programs like that. 11 MR. BURGESS: We don't invision there 12 being a line item for this. 13 MR. CLARK: The Comanche Tribe has 14 not spent one dime on the four years of effort we 15 put into this. I've been working as a designated 16 representative of the Kiowa, Comanche and Apache 17 Intertribal Land Use Committee. That committee 18 has not spent one dime. We have traveled to 19 Washington, D.C., we have traveled to San Antonio, 20 we have traveled to Oklahoma City and Moore, 21 Norman. We've traveled to all the preservation 22 officers of the eight affiliated Fort Sill 23 tribes. Everything we've done has been on our own 24 money. I'm not asking for any help. I haven't 25 asked for any help. What I'm trying to do is do 156 1 something for my -- I have an uncle and an aunt, 2 my father's infant brother and sister are buried 3 out there and have been ignored for 95 years. 4 That's all I'm seeking. All I'm seeking is what 5 this group that is represented here by Gladys 6 Narcomey and others have been seeking since 1984. 7 We're just about there. Support me. Stand behind 8 me, please. 9 MR. TAHKOPFER: I remember them 10 saying that there are over 200 people buried out 11 there, more than the 114 that he says. Now, that 12 goes way back even before that. There's a list of 13 all those 200 that are out there. Some of them 14 includes a lot of the older people here, their 15 grandparents, their forebearers, and they should 16 all be recognized in a large memorial or some 17 type, not just 114. You're not the only one who 18 has somebody buried out there. I have relatives 19 out there, you know. 20 MR. CLARK: Yes, I know that. 21 MR. TAHKOPFER: Been there longer 22 than 95 years, and I'm sure others have the same 23 thing. All we're asking is just put all the 24 names, not just the 114. 25 MR. CLARK: If you have a list -- 157 1 MR. TAHKOPFER: I have a list -- 2 MR. CLARK: Then bring it to me. 3 MR. TAHKOPFER: The Dutch Reform 4 Church -- 5 MR. CLARK: I wrote an article -- 6 MR. BURGESS: I don't want anybody to 7 get heated here. Let's stay calm. We're all 8 enthusiastic about what we're doing. We want to 9 move it forward. Phyllis and Thomas? 10 MS. ATTOCKNIE: Let me have a 11 chapter. I've slept a couple of times since the 12 issue started. But it sounds like what Wahnee is 13 saying and what Gladys and them want to do are the 14 same. I don't understand the difference. Why is 15 there this bone of contention to wait, don't wait, 16 wait, don't wait? Why do we continue waiting? 17 MR. NARCOMEY: I'd like to make a 18 statement, too. Let's look at it this way. Let's 19 go to the college. We've had the college seven 20 years now, and they supposedly have been 21 accredited every year. As a matter of fact, we 22 had that administrator sitting here November, 23 September last year. We're this close, we're this 24 close to getting accredited. He said by April of 25 this year we're going to be accredited. I said I 158 1 bet you my per cap check we ain't going to be 2 accredited. I haven't received it yet. We were 3 this close, but look at the college. That's all I 4 got to say. 5 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: I'll second the 6 motion. 7 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Who made the 8 motion? 9 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Clyde. I'll second 10 this motion because I said 60 days ago I wanted to 11 see what happened. It seems like there's going to 12 be more time. Based on what Mr. Chairman said, 13 it's going to take up to February to process the 14 paperwork. Number 3, the tribal council voted for 15 this some time past. We need to honor the mandate 16 of the tribal council; so, therefore, I will 17 second this motion. 18 MR. TAHKOPFER: Call for the 19 question. 20 MR. CLARK: Mr. Chairman, in response 21 to Mr. Wauahdooah's comment, this group voted to 22 postpone the seeking of the national register 23 nomination until the restoration efforts that 24 we're working on out there are in place. This 25 group voted on that. This group approved it. I 159 1 presented that to the general. There's a term in 2 the Asian community about saving face. How can I 3 go back and say to the general and face him and 4 him have any confidence in what I say if I go back 5 and say they've changed their mind? 6 MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: Stay the course. 7 MR. TIPPECONNIE: What's that? 8 MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: That's exactly 9 what we did. We voted to allow this to go forward 10 first and then make application so it doesn't 11 interfere with what we are trying to request 12 there. We have already been through this. And I 13 thought, you know, we need to stay the course. 14 MR. TIPPECONNIE: We postponed it 15 because of that. Postponed acting on the 16 nomination. 17 MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: Not that nobody 18 wants it to be on the national register. Nobody 19 wants that. Everybody wants that, but there's 20 timeliness to it. 21 MR. BURGESS: This discussion on 22 Tuesday that we have going, is that some of the 23 information Fort Sill wants, that we come to a 24 conclusion of what you bring forward on Tuesday? 25 MR. CLARK: Yes, it is. It has to do 160 1 with eligibility. 2 MR. BURGESS: Yes, Thomas? 3 MR. TOM NARCOMEY: In addition, 4 there's a mass grave next to that cemetery. I 5 guess it's a ditch. Anyway, you used to could see 6 it. I think it was that direction from the 7 smallpox cemetery. And I don't think there's 8 anything mentioned about that, but we can maybe do 9 something about that, too, you know, with the 10 national registry. 11 MR. BURGESS: Okay. Thank you, 12 Thomas. 13 MR. TOM NARCOMEY: My mother's been 14 at this since, I don't know, 40 years maybe. She 15 hasn't gotten paid and she never mentions it, 16 getting paid or anything. She still works. 17 MR. NARCOMEY: I think we ought to go 18 ahead and call for the question and see who votes 19 against the general council or tribal council. 20 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Are we in some 21 discussion? I want to raise this thought. Could 22 we condition, approve the nomination or reinforce 23 what the tribal council said by this nomination, 24 but condition it that this get accomplished before 25 it's submitted? I'm just asking the question. 161 1 MR. NARCOMEY: No. 2 MR. TIPPECONNIE: No? You're saying 3 no? 4 MR. REDELK: Committee, this is the 5 way I feel about it. We made a commitment to 6 Mr. Clark, and I think we need to abide by that 7 commitment. And they were -- this commitment goes 8 back further than this past year. Didn't we not 9 make a commitment when I was the vice chair? 10 MR. TIPPECONNIE: That's what I was 11 talking about, that commitment. 12 MR. REDELK: As far as I'm concerned, 13 we need to abide by that commitment. 14 MR. NARCOMEY: How long ago was that? 15 MS. ATTOCKNIE: But at the same time, 16 when that commitment was made that you're 17 referring to, Darrell's referring to, occurred, 18 but Ms. Gladys and her feelings or representation 19 or what was not present to do what we're doing 20 now, or what's going on now. Mr. Clark was the 21 only one here. 22 MR. TOM NARCOMEY: The CBC made a 23 commitment, I think it was October of 2008, to -- 24 they passed a resolution to nominate it. There's 25 your commitment right there. Plus the council's 162 1 commitment to nominate it in 2007. What else do 2 you need? I guess we go to another council 3 resolution in April. Maybe that will convince 4 everybody that we need to put it on the national 5 registry. It's getting kind of long and drawn 6 out. I guess that's what we'll have to do. 7 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Mr. Chairman, I want 8 to just state for the record that Mr. Clark is a 9 man of integrity, and I salute you for all the 10 work and what Gladys has done, but I think we're 11 going in the same direction as Phyllis said. 12 What's the argument here? So therefore, I think 13 what takes precedence, rather than an individual, 14 the tribal council, I'm going to side with the 15 tribal council's opinion. So I'm going to move 16 that we have a vote. 17 MR. BURGESS: So you're calling for 18 the question? 19 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: I call for the 20 question. 21 MR. BURGESS: Question's been called. 22 MR. TIPPECONNIE: It will be 166-10. 23 MR. BURGESS: Call for the question. 24 Motion's been made by Mr. Narcomey. Second by 25 Mr. Wauahdooah. All those in favor signify by 163 1 saying "aye". 2 (Aye.) 3 MR. BURGESS: All those opposed same 4 sign. All those opposed say nay. 5 MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: Nay. 6 MR. REDELK: Nay. 7 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Abstain. 8 MR. HENSON: Abstain. 9 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yeah, I don't -- I 10 don't think there's enough action on it. 11 MR. BURGESS: He changes his vote to 12 no. That's two, three and two. 13 MRS. GOODIN: Excuse me, who changed 14 their vote? 15 MR. TIPPECONNIE: I did. I respect 16 what Mr. Clark is attempting to do, but I support 17 the nomination. I've always supported it and I 18 want to see it nominated. 19 MR. BURGESS: And I think a lot of it 20 will depend on what we get info on on Tuesday. 21 MR. CLARK: What was the vote, 22 please? 23 MR. BURGESS: Two, three, two. Two 24 for, three against, two abstain. It was 25 disapproved. 164 1 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Everything 2 should be brought up to the general council to 3 vote on. 4 MS. ATTOCKNIE: It was, twice. 5 MR. TOM NARCOMEY: Yeah, it was. 6 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: And was it 7 voted down? 8 MS. ATTOCKNIE: No, it was voted to 9 do it. 10 MRS. HENDRIX: Okay, tell me -- our 11 constitution is signed by your office. Tell me 12 what it says. Like I said, I'm hoping this is 13 going to be the last time, but in visiting with 14 the deputy director and Mr. Salazar's office in 15 Washington, D.C., I asked him to explain our 16 constitution to us because -- or to me. I showed 17 him all my documents, and you know all this is 18 about the disenrollment of me and my children. 19 Okay? He looked at all of this, and he said it's 20 wrong, they can't do that. And I said they did. 21 He said well, they can't, the constitution doesn't 22 allow them to do that. I said I know, but the 23 last words our last chairman said and our present 24 chairman said was we need a constitutional 25 amendment to put people back on. He said I see no 165 1 amendment in here where you can disenroll people 2 or take people off. I said there's not. He said 3 then you would have to go amend the constitution 4 to disenroll off the role before you can get an 5 amendment to put them back on. And I said you're 6 correct. 7 He asked me about what I'd gotten. I 8 told him the first letter I'd got was on Friday 9 night before general council. Said that I didn't 10 meet the 67 constitutional for outside the 11 enrollment parameters of the Comanche Nation. He 12 took this document right here and he said 1959 you 13 got a per cap from the Comanches, KCA. I said 14 you're right. He said that's all they needed. 15 You were on the Comanche roll in 1959. He said 16 and this is the document. And I said well. He 17 said did you give it to them? And I said yeah, I 18 give them all of that. Then I got a resolution 19 that said I was dually enrolled with the Caddos. 20 I showed him the letter from the Caddo chairman 21 and the Caddo enrollment office, and he stated I 22 have never ever been on the Caddo roll. I showed 23 him this. Our constitution was amended in '76 to 24 add enrollment. We didn't have enrollment until 25 1976. The Caddo Tribe didn't have enrollment 166 1 until '82. How can I be dually enrolled with the 2 Caddos in '76 when they didn't even have 3 enrollment until '82? He said did you show these 4 to them, and I said yes. He said this 5 relinquishment has your Comanche number on it. I 6 said I know. He said it's been coded that you're 7 Comanche. I said I know. He said this was a form 8 when they sent out that per cap. I said I know. 9 This form here that says you're Comanche, everyone 10 that was put on the roll when they split will say 11 May 26th, 1976. Go home and look at yours. I 12 looked at my husband's, and my husband's has the 13 same thing. Because that's when the enrollment 14 was amended on the constitution, so that's when 15 everybody got enrolled, and mine states that. And 16 Mr. Tippeconnie, he asked me the question about 17 your wife, because he saw the letter there from 18 your wife. And he said isn't that the wife of one 19 of your CBC, and I said yes. And she said I was 20 never, ever on the Caddo. And he asked me were 21 you calling your wife a liar. I said I hope not. 22 The letter from the Bureau. He 23 stated that this was an excellent letter and that 24 the tribe should adhere to it. He said why didn't 25 they? I said I don't know. Nobody makes them do 167 1 it. They don't have to do it. That's their 2 consensus, they don't have to do anything they 3 don't want to do. And nobody makes them. I said 4 why do you think I came all the way up here to 5 Washington, D.C. to see you? Because somebody has 6 to make them do what's right. Okay. He said it's 7 clear a mistake was made. He said and that 8 mistake needs to be corrected. I said well, look 9 at this. Because he said on September 6th, 2008, 10 Marcilene Hensley was disenrolled. 11 MR. BURGESS: Who is she? 12 MRS. HENDRIX: I don't know. She was 13 on the Comanche roll. She was disenrolled 14 September, Marcilene Hensley. 15 MRS. GOODIN: I believe that is one 16 of my cousin's children or grandchildren. I don't 17 know her personally, but she was named after my 18 aunt. 19 MRS. HENDRIX: Right, and she was on 20 the Comanche roll. They disenrolled her and said 21 she was dually enrolled, Otoe and Missouri, she 22 was dually enrolled. December of that same year, 23 they came back and said she was eligible, a 24 mistake had been made. And that's what I'm saying 25 with me and my children, a mistake has been made 168 1 and it needs to be corrected. 2 Not only that, but June 7th of 2008 3 Sarah Lynn Turner was denied membership with the 4 Comanche Tribe because she was only 1/16th. 5 September of 2008, she became a member of the 6 Comanche Tribe. She's now 1/8th. So where did 7 she get the extra blood between three months? 8 Okay? That's what I'm saying. I have proved over 9 and over again, and that's what the secretary of 10 circuit court deputy director has said. He said 11 why did you go through all this? I said because 12 this one letter from -- the letter from the Caddo 13 Tribe that is signed by the chairman and the 14 enrollment director stated I had never been on the 15 Caddo roll. I said they suspended my brother at 16 the same time they disenrolled me and my 17 children. He came and got the same form and took 18 it to Donna Wahnee and she said that's all I 19 need. I took her that form and she said well, 20 yours is under investigation. 21 I have two brothers and a sister that 22 are still on the Comanche roll. How can you 23 disenroll me when they're still on the roll? Had 24 the same lineage, our grandfather was an original 25 allottee. He had seven kids, and they were all on 169 1 the Comanche roll. All of his kids put their kids 2 on the Comanche roll. Out of 30 grandkids I'm 3 going to be the one put on the Caddo roll? I 4 don't think so. 5 Okay. Since all this has taken 6 place, he asked me about all did I have this. I 7 said I have done that, done that, done that. I 8 said I went to the Supreme Court. And he said 9 well I'm impressed. Did you win? I said yes. 10 I'm going to again. If this doesn't get resolved, 11 I'm going to go again, and I'm going to go again. 12 If I have to come up here and sit or if I have to 13 come back and see you, I will. If this is not 14 corrected, I'm not stopping. Some of those guys 15 did, but not all of them. Hurt my kids. What are 16 you going to do when your kids are hurt? I told 17 him the same thing. If it was your kids, what 18 would you do? I would come out fighting. You 19 don't have to put me back on the roll. I could 20 die tomorrow. I'm going to up and die and not be 21 Comanche, but that's okay. My kids have the rest 22 of their life. You took away their heritage. 23 They belong nowhere. They belong to no tribe. 24 My little grandson and granddaughter, 25 the ones that were here, they're on the roll, but 170 1 their mama's not and their grandmother's not. My 2 grandson's named after my grandpa, Coda Komarosa 3 Revelle. I mean, my grandpa's pictures are up 4 here, and you're saying out of all these 5 generations I'm the only one that's put on the 6 Caddo? 7 But I want to see what you based your 8 decision on. Because from what the Secretary of 9 Interior deputy director said this is clearly a 10 mistake. They can't do this. I said they did. 11 He said your constitution doesn't provide for 12 disenrollment. I said I know that. But now they 13 want to amend it to put people back. He said what 14 for? You got to have an amendment to take them 15 off first. I said am I the only one that 16 understands that? But I said you approve our 17 constitution, I want to come up here and find out 18 what you say, how you approve it, what you say our 19 constitution says. 20 I said our attorneys interpret it any 21 way they want to, whoever wants them to interpret 22 it that way. I said but I'm coming to them to 23 force them to tell me, and he said -- but he said 24 this one document that showed I got -- there's the 25 Caddo Tribe saying I'd never, ever been on the 171 1 Caddo. That one document that I got a per cap in 2 1959 says it all. He said you were Comanche. I 3 said I know. I have never been anything else. 4 And then he said that black and white where the 5 constitution, Caddos didn't even have enrollment 6 in '76. I said huh? Not 'til '82. He said so 7 how can anybody be dually enrolled? He said was 8 there a secret society? I said I don't know. 9 But I came to y'all in December, 10 provided all this information to you and you 11 what? Never voted. It's almost a year and you 12 never voted. Well, I'm here today. He told me, 13 he said -- he was asking me all these things. He 14 said did you do this? He said well, the general 15 council, why don't they listen to the general 16 council? Has the general council said put these 17 people back? 18 I said you know what? The chairman 19 now and the past chairman will wait until the end 20 of the meeting and we don't have any quorum. Then 21 he will let people speak. But we can't vote 22 because there's not a quorum. I said either that 23 or he'll say we're not going to discuss it because 24 it has to be a constitutional amendment. Well, it 25 doesn't, and this is from the horse's mouth. 172 1 I told him a lot of other things. I 2 said you know what? We are in so many violations 3 of our constitution, it's unreal. And so he said 4 get me the information, but he said this needs to 5 be corrected. I said I know. So I'm asking 6 today, a mistake was made. You corrected 7 Marcilene's and Tina -- I mean, Sarah Turner 8 miraculously got another 16th degree of Indian 9 blood in three months. I don't know how. Maybe 10 she got a transfusion, I don't know. But a 11 mistake was made and I want it corrected, 12 rectified back to June 18th, 2008, for me and my 13 children. If not me, at least my children. 14 MR. BURGESS: All right, thank you. 15 MRS. GOODIN: I would like to say 16 something. How many of you were on the CBC at the 17 time the disenrollment happened? 18 MRS. HENDRIX: Ron was. 19 MRS. GOODIN: Did all of you see the 20 information that was presented to you today? 21 MRS. HENDRIX: These right here saw 22 all the information. Ron was part of the 23 disenrollment. Ron has been standing up, so I'm 24 hoping he'll stand up for what's right now. If my 25 dad were here today, he'd come up and tell you, 173 1 we're Comanche, the whole family's Comanche. And 2 you know that, you know my dad. Then you were 3 Wallace's puppet. You're not his puppet, at least 4 you don't seem to be now. I'm hoping you will do 5 what's right for people. Would you want this to 6 happen to your children, for them to suffer and 7 not be on any tribe? 8 MRS. GOODIN: Debbie, I had some 9 other things I wanted to say. You're not helping. 10 MRS. HENDRIX: Okay. I'm sorry. 11 MRS. GOODIN: There are six children 12 in my family. It was the tradition that the 13 children were enrolled on the man's side, so we 14 were enrolled with my grandfather, who was Kiowa. 15 When me and my next sister turned of age, we 16 enrolled as Comanches because we were getting 17 ready to marry Comanche men. When the open 18 enrollment came about, two of my other -- one 19 brother and one sister, took advantage of the open 20 enrollment and they enrolled with the Comanches at 21 that time. 22 Then later it came out that there 23 would be another enrollment. The last two were on 24 that same -- in that same time period, and two of 25 them, one brother and one sister, we have the same 174 1 mother, same father, same grandparents. They were 2 also disenrolled. I was very unhappy about that, 3 but I understand. They came in under the line and 4 they really should not have been enrolled to begin 5 with because they did not come in at the open 6 enrollment period. So I don't have any hard 7 feelings because they are back with the Kiowas 8 where they were to begin with. 9 But what I'm thinking is that 10 something, and seeing what Debbie has here today, 11 I don't think I've ever seen these before. I 12 would certainly give second thoughts if I were 13 sitting there at that time about what she has 14 presented here. Because she has sold me and I 15 have not seen this before. This has happened to 16 my family and I know some other Comanches. But, 17 you know, they didn't come in in time. But it 18 sounds like Debbie's been here for the whole time, 19 and I really hope you guys reconsider because 20 there's some things happening now that I'm just 21 not real sure about. 22 MR. NARCOMEY: At the time the vote 23 was taken, I think it was a 5 to 1 vote, 5 for her 24 to be taken off. I'm the one who voted -- I was 25 the only one that voted to keep her on. Now, I 175 1 think what she wants us to do now is to take 2 another vote. Is that what you want us to do? 3 MRS. HENDRIX: Retroactive back to 4 2008 because it was a mistake. It never should 5 have happened. 6 MS. ATTOCKNIE: The vote, rescind 7 that. 8 MRS. HENDRIX: Rescind the 9 resolution. 10 MR. ATTOCKNIE: It was a motion. 11 There was no resolution to it. And more than 12 that, the night that that vote was taken it was at 13 a reconvened CBC meeting held at the Money Pit. 14 MR. OWENS: What was the reasoning 15 for that? 16 MS. ATTOCKNIE: Is that Debbie was 17 sitting outside in the waiting area with several 18 other people that were wanting to be a part of 19 that CBC meeting not more than 20 feet away. And 20 knowing that she was out there, still proceeded to 21 take that idiot vote to disenroll her. I've been 22 with her through a lot of this stuff from the very 23 beginning. To me, it was just an act of -- what 24 is the word I can use? 25 MR. BURGESS: Okay. 176 1 MR. ATTOCKNIE: Meanness. Because 2 Debbie in her own amenable way, I have the same 3 and have had for years the same attitude toward 4 our Comanche business, toward our Comanche Tribe. 5 If I see something or hear something or whatever, 6 I've got to speak up. Debbie does the same 7 thing. She speaks up, she asks questions. But if 8 somebody took me off of the Comanche roll because 9 of my big mouth, I'd be burning down buildings 10 that I helped write proposals for. Make that a 11 part of the record. But Debbie is the same. But 12 those actions that were taken against her that 13 night were wrong, and I believe that this council, 14 this business committee can either rescind that 15 idiot vote that was taken against her today. 16 MRS. HENDRIX: Correct a mistake. 17 MR. BURGESS: May I make a statement 18 to correct a mistake? The comment that you made 19 about my making a statement about taking a 20 resolution, the resolution that was presented on 21 the floor was to re-enroll everybody that had been 22 taken off. Half of those people, some of them 23 knew they were there illegally, others had already 24 gone back to their tribes, so we can't make a 25 blanket resolution to put everyone back on the 177 1 tribe if they've already gone back to their old 2 tribe or jumped off of ours. So we couldn't do a 3 blanket resolution to cover everyone without 4 finding out who still needs to be on, so let me 5 correct that statement. It wasn't aimed at 6 anybody. Half of those people knew they weren't 7 going to be there, some of them didn't show up to 8 protest, even though they had already gotten per 9 cap, had been on the roll for a couple of years. 10 They didn't come back like you have. Then others 11 went back to their tribes, and their tribes let 12 them in when they found out they were in again 13 under the wire. They didn't come in when the 14 window was open. So we couldn't make a resolution 15 on the floor to put everybody back on, because 16 then it's illegal to do that when they're already 17 elsewhere. So that's the statement that I'm 18 referring to that you're referring to. Let's 19 correct that. 20 MRS. HENDRIX: We don't belong 21 anywhere, though. 22 MR. BURGESS: I'm stating that's 23 correct for the record. That's what I'm saying. 24 MR. NARCOMEY: I make a motion to 25 rescind that idiot, what Phyllis called it. 178 1 MS. HALL: Can I say something? My 2 daughter was one of the ones that was taken off 3 the roll. She's half Comanche. But the thing 4 was, the enrollment office sent that letter three 5 days before we were supposed to come up here and 6 didn't even give us time to get an attorney or 7 anything. And then I get a letter and I still 8 have that letter in this envelope, that says that 9 you cannot bring anybody to talk for you or 10 anything to the meeting, that letter said. And I 11 have that letter, and it was signed by 12 Mrs. Wahnee. And I still have that letter and I 13 got all that together. So in other words, we got 14 the letter three days before, didn't even give us 15 time to get an attorney, nothing. Because one of 16 my nieces is a judge and she was going to come 17 down, fly down from North Dakota and represent my 18 daughter, and she didn't have time if we only had 19 three days. But she's happy, she went back. 20 She's on the Kiowa roll. I don't think she's 21 coming back, but she was half Comanche and half 22 Kiowa. 23 MRS. HENDRIX: We can't get on any 24 other roll because we received per caps here. 25 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: On your motion, are 179 1 you going to make it retroactive? 2 MR. BURGESS: Hang on, there's some 3 information coming. One of the things that had 4 happened was that it was done an appeal. So some 5 of the people who've already gone through that 6 process would have to be reinformed, informed 7 again, if they desire. Just like Sister Patty. 8 So what you're opening up here for us, Debbie, is 9 a whole new process. Okay. People -- I'm going 10 to quote the people. It's not in our constitution 11 to reopen an appeal process. So if this is what 12 we're going do -- 13 MRS. HENDRIX: I'm not appealing, 14 Mike. I want you to correct a mistake. Marcilene 15 Hensley was corrected. She was dually enrolled. 16 I want mine and the kids corrected is all. We 17 were illegally -- 18 MR. BURGESS: And then, see, I think 19 by that correction, everyone else who might have 20 been falsely found to be inaccurately on the 21 rolls -- I'm trying to find the words. You know, 22 they weren't supposed to be on there, eligible or 23 ineligible. We have to go back to those 24 individuals, too. 25 MRS. HENDRIX: You've already put two 180 1 on that were ineligible. 2 MR. BURGESS: We don't know that 3 because we don't know what they -- 4 MRS. HENDRIX: I've seen the 5 resolutions. 6 MR. BURGESS: You've got resolutions, 7 but we don't have the file or supporting 8 documentation as to why they came back on. You 9 understand? Maybe they came in with 10 documentation -- 11 MRS. HENDRIX: I did, too. 12 MRS. GOODIN: Do it as case by case. 13 MR. BURGESS: That's what I'm 14 saying. She's opening a door here. Now do you 15 see my statement? You're opening a door here that 16 we probably have to follow an appeal process. 17 MRS. GOODIN: I heard this in the 18 political ads: Man up. If you made a mistake, 19 correct it. 20 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Mr. Narcomey, on 21 your motion, is this retroactive to the time 22 period, to the time period -- 23 MR. BURGESS: Hang on a second. 24 MR. HENSON: Debbie, what reason did 25 they give you for disenrolling? 181 1 MRS. HENDRIX: Those two letters I 2 showed you. One said I did not meet the 3 parameters, and the resolution said I was dually 4 enrolled. 5 MR. ATTOCKNIE: What they based it on 6 was a document that the enrollment office asked 7 for from the Caddo Tribe, if they had any 8 documentation on enrollment status of Debbie 9 Hendrix, and they gave all of these other names. 10 The only documentation they had was that letter, 11 that document that even when I had to do my 12 enrollment, because I am part Kiowa, too, that 13 they had to send this letter -- don't look so 14 surprised, Mark. You know some of our history 15 better than most. But that everyone had to sign 16 that document about relinquishment to another 17 tribe. But at that time and because Mr. Brewer, 18 who was employed with the Anadarko agency at that 19 time who was participating with the Kiowas, 20 Comanches, and Apaches in doing their separate 21 rolls, knew that document, knew what was the 22 process, that everyone had to sign that document 23 of relinquishment to any other tribe that they had 24 some blood quantum with. I signed it. You want 25 to look at the rolls and my records? It has that 182 1 document. If you can remember yourselves, you had 2 to sign those documents because Terry himself said 3 we sent all of those out. We gave all of those to 4 every member of the KCA at that time. This is why 5 Mr. Brewer, in the position that he is now, is in 6 full support of her issue, her situation. 7 MR. HENSON: Attorneys, have y'all 8 been involved in this at any point down the line? 9 MR. NORMAN: The chairman's got our 10 recommendation. 11 MR. BURGESS: Barbara, you did two 12 things here. Regardless of who agrees with it, 13 one, when you said take it up on a case by case 14 basis, that was the reason for my statement at 15 tribal council. We couldn't do a blanket 16 resolution to put everyone back on because 17 everyone had different circumstances. You brought 18 up an example of that, Debbie, on those two 19 ladies. We don't know what documentation they 20 brought forward to say they can be back on the 21 Comanche roll. We don't know that. You just got 22 a resolution. That's information. 23 Now, to go back and rescind that 24 resolution taking you and your daughter or just 25 you? 183 1 MRS. HENDRIX: No, my two kids, my 2 daughter and my son. 3 MR. BURGESS: You're asking for us to 4 do that decision, but we need to discuss this. 5 Secondly, to do something like this 6 to revisit your area, then we have to go back and 7 revisit those others who may request it. We have 8 to notify people who are going to request it. So 9 now we have to discuss among ourselves what's the 10 best parameter here for the welfare of the 11 people. If we start breaking precedence or 12 setting new precedence, which I don't like 13 doing -- 14 MRS. HENDRIX: You already broke 15 precedence. 16 MR. BURGESS: That was the previous 17 body, which I don't like doing, because we are 18 being hammered about not following the 19 constitution. So all right, we're going to sit 20 here and have to discuss it among ourselves, come 21 back and inform you what the best parameter is so 22 that these other folks who may hear about it and 23 want the same doorway open for them. 24 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Mr. Chairman, I 25 think this is a unique case here, it's well 184 1 documented. It is a political question, and we 2 have authority under the constitution of CBC to 3 maintain the rolls. Obviously there's some 4 shortcomings in the constitution regarding certain 5 things. I'd be willing to second this motion 6 provided it would be retroactive to the date she 7 was -- would you agree to that? I second the 8 motion. 9 MR. ATTOCKNIE: If you rescind the 10 motion, it automatically becomes retroactive. 11 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: I second the 12 motion. 13 MS. ATTOCKNIE: And then the motion 14 would be stated, Clyde, that the motion would be 15 directly -- 16 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Let me just say 17 this. I doubt if anybody else is going to have 18 the same documentation she has. They may, but 19 this is so well documented and gross error is 20 here. Every individual has to come up with their 21 own merits on this. The proverbial can of worms 22 might be there, but the situation is unique. 23 MR. ATTOCKNIE: Call for the 24 question. 25 MR. NARCOMEY: That resolution covers 185 1 all three of you or just you? 2 MRS. HENDRIX: Yeah. 3 MR. BURGESS: This is a tight area, 4 and because of the parameters that are going to be 5 set here, we need to go into executive session and 6 discuss how we're going to approach this. 7 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Can I ask a 8 question? That was the previous administration. 9 We don't like to go back. Well, none of us like 10 to. But if the previous administration made a 11 mistake, knowingly made a mistake, and you say 12 refer to the lawyers, well, didn't the lawyers 13 advise them as what to do that would have been 14 correct so that this wouldn't have had to happen 15 to her? So what are they sitting there for? 16 MR. BURGESS: I wasn't there, and 17 that was in executive session, or sounded like it 18 was. You weren't even allowed in the room, were 19 you? 20 MRS. HENDRIX: I was sitting outside 21 the room. They could have called me in and asked 22 me. 23 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I've always 24 had a question about the attorneys giving advice 25 to you guys. They sit there and smile sometimes. 186 1 Maybe they know and maybe they don't. But I would 2 like to know, what are they doing that they can't 3 correct these mistakes that you guys get in 4 trouble for? 5 MRS. HENDRIX: That's why I went to 6 Washington, D.C. Because you say one thing, they 7 say one thing, Wallace says one thing. I went to 8 the horse's mouth to get our constitution and what 9 it says. You can't take people off the roll. 10 Then when I brought up the vote, because I was 11 running -- Tippeconnie and I were running for 12 secretary/treasurer and they took a phone vote. 13 They said -- he said that's wrong, they cannot 14 take a phone vote. I said that's why they 15 disenrolled me, because I was going to be 16 nominated that Saturday, and I said and I was. No 17 one said anything. But they suspended my brother 18 as chairman and put a person in there, and Wallace 19 told her what to do and she did it, and they took 20 me off. And he said the same thing we've said. 21 You're in there illegally. Because a phone vote 22 does not take me off. If I have to go back to 23 Washington again, I don't have a problem. 24 MR. BURGESS: We have got a motion on 25 the floor. You were going to say something, 187 1 Mr. Goodin? 2 MR. GOODIN: I want to ask the 3 attorneys, did you all know about this when it was 4 happening? Did you all know that they could not 5 disenroll her legally? 6 MR. NORMAN: Well, we disagree with 7 that opinion. As was previously stated by 8 Mr. Wauahdooah, the CBC's constitutional 9 responsibility is to maintain the roll. There are 10 very specific rules in the constitution for who is 11 and who's not qualified to be on that roll. At 12 the time this happened, enrollment was doing an 13 audit of tribal membership and came up with 14 information with respect to a number of families 15 that raised questions about whether those families 16 or those individuals satisfied the rules under the 17 constitution. That evolved into its own separate 18 process with multiple hearings for multiple 19 individuals to determine in a court-like setting 20 what evidence is there to address whether an 21 individual is qualified under the constitution to 22 be a tribal member or not. In that process, 23 Mrs. Hendrix and her children were determined not 24 to satisfy that. As part of maintaining the roll, 25 which is the CBC's constitutional responsibility, 188 1 they determined that she should not have been on 2 there. 3 So, yes, we were a part of it. We 4 weren't the fact gatherers or on one side or 5 another. We were advising what the rolls were and 6 what the understanding of what the constitution is 7 with respect to the membership rules. 8 MR. WHITEWOLF: Why did you advise 9 the CBC that the constitution reserves that right 10 to the general council? 11 MR. NORMAN: Reserves what right? It 12 does not -- 13 MRS. HENDRIX: But it doesn't give it 14 to the CBC. 15 MR. NORMAN: It gives the 16 responsibility to maintain the rolls to the CBC, 17 and if the CBC -- for instance, what we found 18 during the course of that exercise was there were 19 people who were dually enrolled who were receiving 20 per capita payments from multiple tribes, and 21 that's clearly a violation of your constitution. 22 And as part of maintaining the roll, the CBC took 23 action to correct that situation. 24 MRS. HENDRIX: But what I'm telling 25 you is the Secretary of Interior, who signs our 189 1 constitution, says that's not what the 2 constitution says. And I'm going to believe him 3 before I believe you. 4 MR. NORMAN: I'm sure you are. 5 MRS. HENDRIX: Because you don't 6 know, he does. He signs it reading this way, and 7 he read that we can't disenroll people. 8 MR. GOODIN: What I don't really 9 understand is someone finds that she was dually 10 enrolled and then she finds she wasn't. I mean, 11 where there's a document showing that she was? 12 MS. ATTOCKNIE: There's only one 13 document. 14 MRS. HENDRIX: It's that -- 15 MR. BURSON: Mr. Goodin, there was a 16 chance for Mrs. Hendrix to come forward with any 17 factual information, as was provided to the other 18 60, 70, 80, 90 people, to present evidence that 19 would counter the original assumption or even 20 determination that these people, these 60, 70 21 people of which she and her children were three, 22 were not qualified to be Comanches under the 23 constitution. She did not present some of the 24 information that she is presenting to the CBC here 25 at that hearing. They came in and they read a 190 1 letter from Terry Brewer and they did not present 2 any fresh evidence to the contrary. They just 3 read an opinion letter from Mr. Brewer. 4 MR. ATTOCKNIE: As well as a letter 5 from the Caddo Tribe. 6 MR. BURSON: Excuse me, 7 Mrs. Attocknie. The factual evidence was not 8 presented when they had a chance to do so. 9 MRS. HENDRIX: As I stated a while 10 ago when my brother took his letter from the tribe 11 in there, he ain't never been on the Caddo roll. 12 I gave that to Donna with other documents before 13 the hearing. 14 MR. BURSON: You had your chance in 15 May of 2008. 16 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Mr. Chairman, I call 17 for the question. 18 MR. BURGESS: All right, gentlemen. 19 The question's been called. The motion is to 20 read -- Mr. Narcomey, your motion is to read to 21 rescind the resolution that had taken Mrs. Hendrix 22 and her son and daughter off the roll -- 23 MRS. HENDRIX: My son and son. 24 MR. NARCOMEY: The three individuals. 25 MR. BURGESS: You want to rescind 191 1 that resolution, right? 2 MR. TIPPECONNIE: It was a motion, 3 right? 4 MR. BURGESS: Well, he's making a 5 motion to rescind the resolution. We have a 6 second. 7 MR. BURSON: Our advice to you, you 8 should tread very carefully on rescinding 9 resolutions that are over two years old. 10 Generally, other legislative bodies cannot rescind 11 any resolution once a certain time has passed or 12 they adjourn. And especially if it affects any 13 other parties. That's not the proper way to do 14 it. If she thinks she has evidence she wants to 15 present and you have -- want to consider that 16 evidence, then you should allow her a hearing to 17 present the evidence and then consider the 18 evidence on both sides. And if you want to 19 reconsider the evidence to see if there is another 20 basis upon which she -- 21 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: I call for the vote, 22 Mr. Chairman. 23 MR. WHITEWOLF: Double talk. 24 MRS. HENDRIX: I came to you in 25 December and presented all this -- 192 1 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: I called for the 2 vote, Mr. Chairman. 3 MR. BURGESS: Mrs. Hendrix, hang on. 4 Gentlemen, we've called for the question. All 5 those in favor of the motion Mr. Narcomey's put 6 forward, say aye. 7 (Aye.) 8 MR. BURGESS: All those opposed say 9 nay. 10 MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: Nay. 11 MR. BURGESS: This is the motion to 12 rescind that prior resolution. Two ayes and one 13 nay. 14 MR. REDELK: I abstain on the 15 assumption that she may have some documentation 16 that contradicts what documentation was given me 17 at the time that I made the decision in '08. 18 MR. BURGESS: I don't think you need 19 to abstain, because -- 20 MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: I agree. If it 21 was wrong, we -- and we want to revisit it, we 22 need to do that. If it proves that she's supposed 23 to be on the roll, then we need to rescind that or 24 bring her back on the roll. Not only her facts 25 here talking, but we need enrollment's facts right 193 1 in front of us when we make the decision. 2 MRS. HENDRIX: Let me visit that 3 there. Terry Brewer came down and asked for her 4 documentation. 5 MR. BURGESS: Here's what we're going 6 to do. We're going to take a vote here, then 7 we're going into executive session. Then in 8 executive session we're going to take up any 9 appeal process we need to take up. 10 MRS. HENDRIX: What's to appeal? You 11 made a mistake. 12 MR. BURGESS: Let us set this so 13 everything's on the books. A recommendation has 14 been given. If there's information that we didn't 15 have, then I want to see it again and revisit the 16 issue. 17 MRS. HENDRIX: Well, the vote's two 18 to one, and now you're trying to talk him into 19 voting no. 20 MR. BURGESS: The vote is two to one 21 right now and now everybody's expressed 22 themselves. Because now, because Mrs. Goodin 23 brought forward the same issue we're discussing, 24 how we are going to do it for the other 25 individuals to appeal to us. 194 1 MR. HENSON: Let me say this -- 2 MRS. GOODIN: I've already told you 3 my brother and sister won't be back. 4 MR. BURGESS: That's fine, but 5 there's others. Let's get the vote here. And 6 just letting you know, Debbie, not all is lost 7 here. So right now we're two for the motion, one 8 against. 9 MRS. HENDRIX: And the rest abstain. 10 MR. BURGESS: I don't know, I didn't 11 hear from the other two. 12 MR. HENSON: There are some very 13 large concerns that I have about your case. 14 MRS. HENDRIX: What are they? 15 MR. HENSON: I haven't heard the 16 other side of the story. I've seen it, they've 17 presented some stuff to me, but I've still got a 18 question in my mind about where this can go and 19 the implication that it would have on the whole 20 Comanche Nation. 21 MRS. HENDRIX: So you would punish my 22 kids? 23 MR. HENSON: No. 24 MRS. HENDRIX: Yes, that's what 25 you're doing. 195 1 MR. HENSON: You're taking this 2 wrong. I am voting for the Comanche Nation. I 3 have to take the Comanche Nation in 4 consideration. I haven't seen the other documents 5 that says that took you off the roll. 6 MR. WHITEWOLF: She showed you. 7 MRS. HENDRIX: I showed you. 8 MR. WHITEWOLF: She showed you right 9 here. 10 MR. HENSON: We have an enrollment 11 office here. You've got documents, they've got 12 documents. If I see both documents, I promise 13 you, if I see both sides and you've been wronged, 14 then I'll go along with these guys and convince 15 them to put you back on the roll. 16 MRS. HENDRIX: Okay. Can I do one 17 thing for you? 18 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Debbie, sit down. 19 What is the vote, gentlemen? 20 MR. BURGESS: Our vote is two for the 21 motion, one against it, and right now Mr. RedElk 22 said you abstained. 23 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Mr. Henson's 24 abstained. 25 MR. HENSON: I'm with seeing both 196 1 sides. I have to see both sides. 2 MR. TIPPECONNIE: I have to see both 3 sides. 4 MR. BURGESS: So the vote is two, 5 three and two. 6 MR. HENSON: And I want to make a 7 motion that we get together as soon as possible, 8 get all the documents over there, so let's get 9 this thing out of the way and squared once and for 10 all. She has evidence that says there was a 11 mistake made. She's taken this to me before and I 12 took it to Donna. Donna showed me some documents, 13 and I can't remember what they were, to 14 substantiate why she was taken off the roll. 15 Now what I want to do, even if we 16 have to call a special meeting, get all the 17 documents in here, and Debbie, you can give us all 18 your documents again. I know you gave them to me 19 before, and I think they're in my office, but I'm 20 not sure. But we can sit down and we can go 21 through each one of them and hear both sides. I'd 22 like to call a special meeting to do that. 23 MRS. HENDRIX: Can I say one more 24 thing? I'll bring you the minutes of that night 25 when they voted. And they came in here, the 197 1 attorneys, and Donna Wahnee. You will see in the 2 minutes Donna Wahnee's asking Wallace, "Is this 3 what you wanted me to do?" And the attorneys are 4 saying well, we need to do it tonight so that they 5 could give me that letter the next day. When you 6 read the minutes, you will see conspiracy all the 7 way through. I'll give you those minutes so that 8 will help. And any documentation she has, I got a 9 letter stating I didn't make the parameters. I 10 got a resolution saying I was dually enrolled. 11 Anything else you have doesn't pertain to what I 12 got letters on. 13 MR. HENSON: And you have given her 14 those documents? 15 MRS. HENDRIX: All of these. 16 MR. HENSON: That's all we'll need. 17 We'll need her documents and then we'll take a 18 look at it. There's a time frame that's been 19 involved here that you had brought up about 20 enrollment with the other tribe and when they had 21 the enrollment and when they didn't. You also 22 said something about Comanches didn't get her 23 enrolled until '76. 24 MR. BURGESS: Was it 1976 or '83? 25 '76, and then we had the takeover, records 198 1 disappeared. 2 MRS. HENDRIX: But the Bureau has 3 your form that you signed in '76 putting you on 4 the Comanche roll. Everybody does. So she can't 5 say I'm out of the parameters, because then you'd 6 be out of the parameters. You go home and look 7 and see if it doesn't say May 26, 1976. 8 MR. BURGESS: What we're going to do 9 is call for a special CBC meeting, and we'll bring 10 your file forward and your documentation you 11 have. It may not be in that file, but nonetheless 12 bring your documentation from that first. 13 MRS. HENDRIX: Maybe she got rid of 14 all of it. 15 MR. BURGESS: Well, bring what you 16 have, especially all the way back to -- what was 17 the first per cap? 18 MRS. HENDRIX: '59. 19 MR. BURGESS: Bring it to that 20 meeting. He's going to call for a special CBC, 21 we'll sign off on it. So give us time. It will 22 probably be after Thanksgiving. Well, the vote 23 failed. 24 MRS. HENDRIX: This was ugly to begin 25 with, to take what they feel for me on my kids. 199 1 They had nothing to do with it. It was a 2 conspiracy and they included my children. 3 MR. WHITEWOLF: They're 4 dishonorable. 5 MR. NORMAN: Don't call me 6 dishonorable. You can say a lot of things -- 7 MR. WHITEWOLF: I say the truth. I 8 can say whatever I want. 9 MR. BURGESS: Let's have order. 10 Knock it off. We're not here for that. We can't 11 do a special meeting for 10 days. We have to 12 announce it out, and that 10 days puts us into the 13 holiday weekend, the week of Thanksgiving. So the 14 only thing we can do, we don't have anything on 15 the 19th of November, 21st of November. Ten days 16 we're at NCAI, so we don't have a quorum there. 17 MRS. HENDRIX: Mike, if it was your 18 kids, would you want to drag your feet 19 two-and-a-half years, three years? 20 MR. HENSON: Debbie, let me say this. 21 This is the best -- 22 MRS. HENDRIX: Because when you see 23 the minutes, you can see the conspiracy between 24 them and Donna and Wallace. 25 MR. HENSON: We have to have 200 1 attorneys there. 2 MRS. HENDRIX: Why? 3 MR. HENSON: We have to have some 4 form of attorneys there, if there's any legal 5 questions that come up. 6 MRS. HENDRIX: Okay. Then I'll see 7 if I can get somebody from Washington, D.C. to at 8 least write a letter or come down here to 9 straighten them out. 10 MR. HENSON: Let me put it this way. 11 I'm an individual, and I don't know it all, and I 12 don't want to make a mistake, especially involving 13 your grandchildren or your children. So if 14 there's something legal comes up, then I'd like 15 legal advice. 16 MR. NORMAN: Debbie, your facts are 17 going to be what your facts are going to be that 18 are presented. We recommended to them that they 19 have a hearing. 20 MRS. HENDRIX: We've already had a 21 hearing. 22 MR. NORMAN: It sounds like you got 23 new information that wasn't presented before. 24 MRS. HENDRIX: All this was given to 25 Donna, all of it. 201 1 MR. BURGESS: November 23rd, at 3:00. 2 We'll put a notice out. It's a Tuesday. We're 3 going into executive session. 4 (Executive session commenced at 5 2:50 p.m.) 6 7 8 * * * * * * 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 202 1 R E P O R T E R 'S C E R T I F I C A T E 2 3 STATE OF OKLAHOMA ) ) 4 COUNTY OF OKLAHOMA ) 5 I, Kelly Stoabs, Certified Shorthand 6 Reporter for the State of Oklahoma, certify that 7 the above and foregoing meeting transcribed by me 8 is a true and correct transcript of the meeting; 9 that the meeting was held on November 6, 2010, in 10 the State of Oklahoma; that I am not an attorney 11 for nor a relative of any said parties, or 12 otherwise interested in the event of said action. 13 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set 14 hereunto set my hand and seal of office on this 15 the 8th day of December, 2010. 16 17 18 __________________________ 19 Kelly Stoabs Certified Shorthand Reporter 20 for the State of Oklahoma 21 22 23 24 25 203 1 S E C R E T A R Y ' S C E R T I F I C A T E 2 3 I, Robert Tippeconnie, Secretary- 4 Treasurer of Comanche Nation Business Committee, 5 certify that the above is a true and correct 6 transcript of a meeting of CBC Members held at 7 10:11 a.m. on November 6, 2010, and that the 8 meeting was duly called and held in all respects 9 in accordance with the charters and bylaws of the 10 Comanche Nation and that a quorum was present. 11 I further certify that the votes and 12 resolutions of the CBC Members of Comanche Nation 13 at the meeting are operative and in full force and 14 effect and have not been annulled or modified by 15 any vote or resolution passed or adopted by the 16 CBC since that meeting. 17 18 19 Signed:_________________________ Date:____________ Robert Tippeconnie 20 Secretary-Treasurer 21 22 23 24 25