TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS OF THE COMANCHE BUSINESS COMMITTEE MONTHLY MEETING MARCH 5, 2011, 10:14 A.M. COMANCHE NATION COMPLEX LAWTON, OKLAHOMA ________________________________________________ REPORTED BY: KELLY STOABS, CSR DODSON COURT REPORTING & LEGAL VIDEO 435 NORTH WALKER AVENUE, SUITE 102 OKLAHOMA CITY, OK 73102 405/235-1828 OFFICE ~ 405/235-1266 FAX 877/681-2119 TOLL FREE dcri@coxinet.net ~ www.dodsonreporting.net A P P E A R A N C E S COMANCHE NATION COMANCHE COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Michael Burgess, Chairman Richard "Bunky" Henson, Vice-Chairman Robert Tippeconnie, Secretary-Treasurer Ronald Red Elk, Committeeman #1 Mark Wauahdooah, Committeeman #2 Darrell Kosechequetah, Committeeman #3 Clyde R. Narcomey, Committeeman #4 LEGAL COUNSEL: Kirke Kickingbird, James Burson Hobbs, Straus, Dean & Walker * * * * * * INDEX OF PROCEEDINGS PAGE Meeting called to order at 4 10:14 a.m. Roll call. 4 Motion passed to amend agenda. 6 Motion passed to approve Resolution 7 Number 21-11, Enrollment List No. 859. Motion passed to Resolution Number 8 22-11, Enrollment List No. 860. Motion passed to approve Resolution 8 Number 23-11, Enrollment List No. 861. Motion passed to approve Resolution 10 Number 24-11, LRTP. Motion passed to approve Resolution 19 Number 25-11, Directing Transfer of Tax commission Funds. Motion passed to table Resolution 21 Number 26-11, Employment and Lawsuits. Mr. Wauahdooah reports on trip to 33 New Orleans. Mr. Tippeconnie reports on NCAI 49 visit. Motion passed to advertise for legal 107 counsel. Open session concluded at 12:35 p.m. 109 Reporter's Certificate 109 Secretary's Certificate. 111 (Meeting called to order at 10:14 a.m.) MR. BURGESS: Mr. Tippeconnie, would you do roll call, please? MR. TIPPECONNIE: Michael Burgess? MR. BURGESS: Here. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Richard Henson? MR. HENSON: Here. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Robert Tippeconnie, here. Ronald RedElk? MR. REDELK: Here. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Mark Wauahdooah? MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Here. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Darrell Kosechequetah? MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: Here. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Clyde Narcomey? MR. NARCOMEY: Here. MR. TIPPECONNIE: All present, Mr. Chairman. MR. BURGESS: Thank you. Darrell, would you give an invocation today, please? MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: Sure. Let's pray. (Invocation.) MR. BURGESS: Thank you, Darrell. Gentlemen, our minutes are not here at the time, and we'll dispense with that, put that on the table. You also want to amend the agenda to add a couple of items. The first will be a resolution. I guess it will be 25-11? MR. TIPPECONNIE: It will be 26. MR. BURGESS: 26-11? MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yes. MR. BURGESS: I believe it's in your books, Clyde. You might have it setting right there before you. And then in executive session -- is Mr. Owens here? Mr. Owens and Mrs. Revere are supposed to be here today. MRS. GOODIN: Mr. Chairman, what did you say 26 is in regards to? MR. BURGESS: It's a resolution about employment and lawsuits. MR. NARCOMEY: Mr. Chairman, if Mr. Owens is not going to be here, the CBC could still make a decision, right? MR. BURGESS: I wanted to read it, him and her, and relay some events to y'all. If they're not here, we can put a stay on that activity, if that's what you're asking. Bob, did you have something you wanted to amend as well? MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yes, I wanted to add to the executive session the Jim Thorpe Native American Games. I guess we'll put that down as Number 14. MR. BURGESS: All right. MR. NARCOMEY: On that lady that forged paperwork to get her grandkids' per cap we talked about last, can we go into executive session on that? MR. BURGESS: Yeah, we'll go into executive session, the alleged attempt. MR. TIPPECONNIE: That will be Number 15 then. MR. BURGESS: Okay. Mr. Wauahdooah? MR. WAUAHDOOAH: That chicken smells good. I don't know if you have smell vision on your camera, but it smells good in here. MR. REDELK: Chairman Burgess, I'd like to have some time in new and old business. MR. BURGESS: Okay. MR. TIPPECONNIE: That will be Number 5. MR. BURGESS: Any others? All right. We have a motion on the floor adding these -- amend the agenda, excuse me. MR. TIPPECONNIE: I make the motion we amend the agenda with all the items we stated. MR. WAUAHDOOAH: I second the motion, Mr. Chairman. MR. BURGESS: Motion made to accept the amendments to the agenda, second by Mr. Mark Wauahdooah. All those in favor signify by saying "aye". (Aye.) MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same sign. All those abstain, same sign. The ayes have it. Moving down the line here, the first resolution will be 21-11, Enrollment List 859. MR. NARCOMEY: Mr. Chairman, I make a motion we approve, there's just one name on there. They're enrolled Apache but received monetary gifts, so they're not qualified. I make a motion to approve this resolution. MR. BURGESS: Motion being made to accept the resolution denying membership to a duly enrolled person. MR. HENSON: I second. MR. BURGESS: Motion made by Mr. Narcomey. Second by Mr. Henson. All those in favor signify by saying "aye". (Aye.) MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same sign. All those abstain, same sign. The ayes have it. Resolution 22-11 is also a list of applicants who are determined to be ineligible for enrollment with the Comanche Nation. They do not meet the constitutional membership requirements. MR. NARCOMEY: Mr. Chairman, I make a motion to approve that. There's just one name on there. No original allottees. I make a motion to approve Resolution 22-11. MR. BURGESS: Motion made by Mr. Narcomey. Second? MR. HENSON: I'll second. MR. BURGESS: Second by Mr. Henson. All those in favor signify by saying "aye". (Aye.) MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same sign. All those abstain, same sign. The ayes have it. It passes. Moving to Resolution 23-11. This is a resolution identifying applicants, that they are eligible to be enrolled with the Comanche Nation. Are there about 30? MR. HENSON: Twenty-six. MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Mr. Chairman, I make a motion that we accept these new members. MR. BURGESS: All right. MR. HENSON: I second. MR. BURGESS: Motion being made by Mr. Wauahdooah to accept. A second has been made by Mr. Henson to accept these members. All those in favor signify by saying "aye". (Aye.) MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same sign. All those abstain, same sign. MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Mr. Chairman, would you mind reading these? MR. BURGESS: Okay. MR. NARCOMEY: Mr. Chairman, you might make a note that 16 of these 26, they're 1/8. I know there's been a question about moving to 1/4 where it was for so long. But anyway, just a note that 16 were 1/8. MR. BURGESS: We have Jonathan Ayon, Charlene Booker, Mykka Coleman, Cierra Contreras, Jackson Costello, Olivia Dalby, A'den Defate, Dominic De Le Cruz, Michael Ferguson, Loree Green, Kellin Hankins, Roman Khorsand-Nia, Jaylen Kindle, Juliann Kindle, Kayden Mahsetky, Memphis McClelland, Mason Mihecoby, Lyric Murrow, Alexander Petty, Amelia Petty, Trevin Reed, Kaylei Saucier, Alexander Walker, Kevin Wheeler, Jimmie Wildcat, Caison Yackeschi-McLean. These are the new members. Ladies and gentlemen, those of you who wish, once they're approved, there's a listing here of these names, and early on we requested enrollment office to start listing their family names, Comanche family names. So quite a few of these folks have four to six Comanche names behind their English name here. If you're interested, you can go and see if you have any relatives that don't live nearby. Moving along with our agenda, we're going to Resolution 24-11. This is Comanche Nation's use of the roads. These are new routes that don't match our long-range transportation plan, and they are routes that we're going to have to edit and some of them we're going to be relocating. This prevents overlapping in closed county roads that are on attachments 1A, 1B, 1D and 1E to this. We don't know all the roads or the exact location of these. We have a whole list here, four pages of different roads. MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Mr. Chairman, simply what this means, does this mean we're not going to have maintenance on these particular roads, on some of them, because I don't know where these roads are, too. I don't know if there's anybody in the audience that would have an interest in this. MR. NARCOMEY: Mr. Chairman, according to this resolution, we're just going to be put on the inventory as a -¥ MR. BURGESS: We're changing only some. MR. TIPPECONNIE: It's increasing the inventory. MR. NARCOMEY: But it's -- it don't cost the tribe anything, right, this resolution? MR. TIPPECONNIE: Right. But it may help, because we have a full inventory. MR. NARCOMEY: Yeah, once you get updated to the inventory. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yeah, to the Indian roads program. MR. NARCOMEY: Don't see no harm in approving it. I make a motion to approve, Mr. Chairman. MR. BURGESS: All right. MR. NARCOMEY: Especially if it's not going to cost us anything. MR. BURGESS: No, it doesn't cost. MR. WAUAHDOOAH: For purposes of information, is there any way we could have -- who is in charge of this project? MR. TIPPECONNIE: The roads department, director. MR. WAUAHDOOAH: I'd like to see exactly where these roads are. MR. BURGESS: Mapping of it? We could give an update. MR. HENSON: There's one thing I understand about roads, that if we are going to use these as addition to the Tribal Indian Reservation Roads Program inventory, we're going to have the upkeep on those. If this is already in the county, it is going to cost the tribe some money. MR. BURGESS: Well, the money comes to us from federal highway moneys from the Bureau to the tribe. That's how we get maintenance money for it. MR. HENSON: I still don't know that much about it. MR. TIPPECONNIE: I think it'd be worthy to get some information at some point in the work session on this transportation, because it is a complex thing. Right now they're looking at reauthorization of the Indian Roads, you know, program. They've extended it for two years, so it's a complex thing that you all should be aware of. MR. WAUAHDOOAH: I'm almost tempted to table this particular motion right now. MR. BURGESS: We already have a motion on the floor approved. What it is, some roads are being realigned, and we have some county roads that are closed, that they're closing those roads off. No one lives on the road and people are dumping things, so the county has notified. This helps realign the order of them as well. There is a cost to maintaining them? MR. HENSON: Did someone approve you on these before, talk to you about them? MR. BURGESS: No, it's just a matter of function. The BIA needs this resolution to go forward, changing -- sometimes they have to adjust their legals. They're off on their legal descriptions and we have to change it. That's what this is saying. MR. HENSON: It's making a new inventory here, and I know further back when they throw it on the tribe that the tribe's got to pay for the maintenance of the road. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Well, there's county, there's joint jurisdictions on some roads. Just like we did the bridge on Bishop Road. You know, that's -- when they serve tribal members, when these roads serve tribal members, then they're on our system. But it doesn't necessarily mean that we always pay the whole cost of those. MR. BURGESS: Let me read this resolution. I'm starting at the third whereas. "Whereas, the Comanche Nation is submitting the attached list of routes 1-A through E, taken from the Comanche Nation's Long Range Transportation Plan for 2005 for additions to the Tribe's Indian Reservation Roads Program for FY 2012; and the Comanche Nation is continuing to use the original LRTP, Long Range Transportation Plan, listing, those routes that do not match the original LRTP have been edited or relocated to prevent overlaps and closed county roads and that the attachments 1-A Caddo County, 1-B Comanche County, 1-D Tillman County, and 1-E will take preference for these updates. We're just moving things up in preference that have been on a long range list since 2005. And we're already receiving funding for some of these because we're doing the maintenance on them. We did the maintenance funding. So we're updating our MOA, Memorandum of Agreement, with the Indian Reservation Roads Program at the BIA. MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Mr. Chairman, I would presume in 2005, before my time here, you guys saw where these routes were? MR. BURGESS: Clyde would be the only one. MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Clyde, do you remember that? MR. NARCOMEY: What now? MR. WAUAHDOOAH: In 2005 when they said this master plan was put into place by our roads department, did you see the actual routes? MR. BURGESS: There is a route plan down in transportation. MR. NARCOMEY: No, it just came in as a resolution at that time. MR. WAUAHDOOAH: I'm just concerned that some of the Indian families might be left out in some areas. There may be some roads closed, so I just want to make sure. MR. BURGESS: Well, each tribe has this, Mark. All three tribes in the reservation area have this same kind of activity. And sadly enough, sometimes we'll have more Comanches on one road as opposed to Apaches, but because Apaches got that road first, that's their claim and they don't get enough money to maintain it. MR. WAUAHDOOAH: I'll go see the road director some time this week about this. MR. TIPPECONNIE: They're working out the 2012 program of work, and that's where we get -- there's a formula on how they make distribution of federal dollars based upon road inventory and road plan. So I might say the more roads, the better for us, sort of. It's not totally true, but it's a component of the formula. The formula is complex. But it includes certain roads, mileages of roads, but there's other factors as well. MR. WAUAHDOOAH: I don't know how complex the maps are, but maybe we could even project it onto the Website. MR. BURGESS: That's a big map. Ours, everything is delineated by color. So when you look at this map, there's a color scheme for each tribe, the three tribes. Sadly to say, I think the Fort Sill have a few tribes, but that's right around their allotment. MR. WAUAHDOOAH: I'll go talk to him this week. MR. BURGESS: We have a motion on the floor to accept. These routes are already in our plan since 2005. MR. REDELK: I have a question on the attachment. You listed all attachments except for 1-C, and that's Cotton County. Is that something that -- is that an error or is -¥ MR. BURGESS: I don't know. That comes to us from a -- I have Cotton County in my attachments. MR. REDELK: But on your fourth whereas it leaves it out. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Because at this point, I don't think they're adding those. It already has Cotton County, likely, and they're just making some corrections on -- in these counties that have some errors or overlap, plus adding some. MR. BURGESS: But when you go to the third whereas, it's listed 1-C attachment. MR. TIPPECONNIE: It's Caddo, Comanche and Tillman. MR. BURGESS: Where the corrections and overlaps are being changed. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Not Cotton. MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: Is this something they do yearly? MR. BURGESS: Almost. Sometimes they'll come back to us and ask us to change priority based on funding. If we have enough funding to do a project that's higher in cost and one that's lower and we get the funding for it, we'll change the priority and get the higher funding one done first. MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: Second the motion. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Who made the motion? MR. BURGESS: Clyde did. We have a motion and a second. Second by Mr. Darrell Kosechequetah. Call for the question. All those in favor signify by saying "aye". (Aye.) MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same sign. All those abstain, same sign. MR. HENSON: Abstain. MR. WAUAHDOOAH: I abstain. MR. BURGESS: Resolution 25-11, this is a resolution directing the tax commission to transfer funds to the CBC to pay for the cost of a new sewer system here at the tribal offices. Gentlemen, do you have any -¥ MR. TIPPECONNIE: This was the transfer, this money? MR. BURGESS: Yes. The constitution establishes the business committee as the duly elected official body designated to conduct business for and on behalf of the Comanche Nation; and Whereas, the Comanche Nation Tax Commission passed a motion to transfer, I believe it's 1/3 of the cost, $275,000, to the nation for the tribal headquarters sewer system. Now therefore be it resolved that the CBC hereby directs the transfer of 275,000 from the Comanche Nation Tax Commission to the nation for this project. MR. HENSON: What's going to be the cost of the total project? MR. BURGESS: I think it was 770,000. MR. HENSON: And the other part is going to come from grants or tax commission? MR. BURGESS: They have to come from the tax commission. This sewer system eventually will include not just all the buildings here, but it can even include Maddische. We'll take them off of their lagoon and put them on this underground sewer system. That lagoon over there will disappear. Hopefully we'll put some buildings up. MR. HENSON: Is it going to be big enough for expansion? MR. BURGESS: Yes, it's large enough to handle everything. We won't need to expand it if we don't add trailers. MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Mr. Chairman, when do they start, if they pass this? MR. BURGESS: They'll start as soon as possible once we make the payment. I think they said it will take 120 days to complete everything. MR. WAUAHDOOAH: I make a motion that we accept this resolution. MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: Second, Mr. Chairman. MR. BURGESS: Second by Mr. Darrell Kosechequetah. All those in favor signify by saying "aye". (Aye.) MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same sign. All those abstain, same sign. Motion passes. Attorneys? Clyde, on this one here we have a resolution we'd like to peruse here, one of you. MR. TIPPECONNIE: I'll bring it. MR. BURGESS: Resolution 26-11. "Comanche Nation is a federally recognized Indian tribe with a constitution approved by the Secretary of Interior January 9, 1967 to safeguard tribal rights, powers, and privileges to improve the economic, moral, education, and health status of its members; and "Whereas, the tradition of sovereignty of the Comanche Nation, since time immemorial predates the existence of the tribe, establishes the inherited sovereign powers and rights of the CBC to enact laws and ordinances; and "Whereas, the CBC, by the powers vested in tribal council, is concerned about safeguarding, protecting all resources, financial and physical, which is directed to do by the constitution of the nation; and "Whereas, the CBC finds it necessary to declare that any individual who, due to their actions of mismanagement or self-serving interests, brings about a lawsuit against the nation, which may cost it in excess of $50,000 or more, that said individuals are prohibited from obtaining employment or holding elected/selected office with the nation; and "Now therefore be it resolved that the Comanche Nation Tribal Council, Comanche Business Committee, does use its sovereign authority" -- Bob, do you have that -- therefore accepts this resolution. Discussion? MR. NARCOMEY: Mr. Chairman, on this resolution here, it was brought up by Brian Stillwell at our last tribal council meeting back in April 2010, and he didn't have time to print it out. He had been talking to me about it, and I said just bring it and we'll go over it again. But, anyway, on this fourth whereas, I think maybe we should change it. It's got -- brings about a lawsuit against the nation which had, whatever words you want to put in there. In other words, if it's already been committed or may -- which the way it reads here, which may, that means in the future they may have a lawsuit that costs that much. But what we're looking at is what happened forward in the past three, four, five years. MR. BURGESS: So you want to use the word had or has? MR. NARCOMEY: Whatever the lawyers will say to use in here. I don't know the exact nomenclature to use, which or may cause. MR. BURGESS: Which brought about? MS. ISAAC: Do y'all have one specific or any specific reason to do this? I know there's been a lot of lawsuits in the past, but most of them get bought off. Do y'all have any specific person in mind when y'all did this? MR. HENSON: We shouldn't be discussing any specific persons because it's personal. MR. BURGESS: This was on the floor at tribal council. MR. WAUAHDOOAH: What was the mind set of Mr. Stillwell when he brought this up, to answer her question? MR. NARCOMEY: It's in excess of 50,000. MR. WAUAHDOOAH: What is the rationale for this? MR. NARCOMEY: Because of lawsuits that was brought against the nation that was costing us about 14, 15 million. MS. ISAAC: In that -- is individual people, if anybody wanted to sue the nation for wrongdoing, their hands are tied and they won't be able to run for office? Is that what you're saying, or CBC, or employment even? MR. BURGESS: Or employment. MRS. GOODIN: I think there's a lot of other issues that need to be brought up for a person not to be employed here, also. MR. BURGESS: They're taken care of by the HR policies, but this is not a part of HR policy. It should be a point of law. This resolution will make it law. MR. HENSON: There's one thing, the way that this is written, if we're going to do something like this, that it should be written for the whole Comanche Nation. Here it sounds like it's just the government. All the Comanche Nation and its entities. MS. ISAAC: It's like having y'all say what y'all want to say and then a person that may have an issue, their hands are tied. I see it's a good thing, but in another sense, I don't think -- and y'all can do what y'all want to and nobody else can say what they need to. MR. BURGESS: No, it's not that. It just says here that due to their actions of mismanagement or self-serving interest. MS. ISAAC: The ones that have already been employed here or have had office, I know one person, I can't even remember who it was, they said that if you've been recalled, they don't think you should run for office ever again in your lifetime. Well, that's just not right either. Then it didn't go through but -¥ MR. BURGESS: We'll have to concur with you. I don't mean to slight our relatives up north, we have a gentleman with us, but up there at the Kiowa Nation, when they recalled people who weren't even on the committee, those people can't run for office anymore. Sometimes you lose quality people that way. MRS. GOODIN: And because it's a vendetta or a large group of people that get together and take one person down. That's not right. MR. HENSON: I'm just surprised. This is the first thing I heard anything about it. I know it was brought up mainly before, but this -- from what I'm reading, this is going to protect the nation from a lot of stuff. I worked in the employment world for a lot of years, and y'all know this, that there's people out there that will just walk around in a store and fall down and sue the store. Same thing with our casinos. And this is somewhat similar, but this mentions here it's for mismanagement, self-serving interest, which is -- well, it kind of covers that, too. It sounds good to me, except that I think 50,000 is too much. You ought to drop it down to 25,000. MR. BURGESS: When you read the constitution, self-serving interest, while it's not the same words used in the constitution, it is part of the constitution. MS. ISAAC: That's involving employees? MR. BURGESS: Employees and elected officials. MS. ISAAC: That same thing is going on right here and y'all aren't addressing that. So how come you don't want to put something to address that? There's employees that accept bribes or money. They should not accept money. MR. HENSON: That's the first step of policies and procedures. If someone knows about it, they should report it. MS. ISAAC: And who do we report it to? MR. BURGESS: There's already some ongoing investigations already, can't name names that have done that. Some people have lost their jobs, most recently over doing those actions. MR. HENSON: There is a process by the HR policies to go through. MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Mr. Chairman, would this violate any federal law or First Amendment of the constitution? MR. TIPPECONNIE: Someone's rights, you mean? MR. HENSON: No, no, we're a sovereign nation. MR. WAUAHDOOAH: I'll put that to Mr. Burson. Would any of this violate the U.S. Constitution in any way? MR. BURSON: U.S. Constitution? Well, your tribal constitution lays out specific qualifications for elected officials. In most circumstances, the constitution prevails over any laws. Typically the constitution has to be changed in order to make it harder to get elected. So the problem with holding elected office would be considered unconstitutional as far as your constitution goes. As far as being selected, you mean, appointed for offices, that's within the power of the CBC for appointed officials. As far as obtaining employment, there are -- could be problems with that. But, of course, an employer has a right to decide what the qualifications are for employment purposes. What you run into is the ambiguousness of self-serving interests and mismanagement, and who declares that and who arrives at that finding of fact that this is a mismanagement issue, this is a self-serving issue. So you've got some ambiguous terms here that are -- you've made no provision for how that would be determined upon who that affects. Given its broadest interpretation, it could chill people bringing lawsuits for which they think is a public policy purpose, but for which somebody else could have a different opinion. Well, that was self¥ serving. So there's some -- I see some problems here with the way it's written. And Mr. Narcomey's pointed out the use of the word nay is pretty squishy, too. That's -- you noted that that's a future event, and as everybody knows, it's hard to predict what the future will bring. So I think it's problematic. While I'm at it, let me say that the resolving part of it doesn't appear to have any connection with the resolution. MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Mr. Burson, we didn't write this resolution up here, but my real question was directed, would it violate any principle of the U.S. Constitution? MR. BURSON: A person could make a case for that statement, yes. MR. BURGESS: Really? And how? MR. BURSON: By the use of ambiguous terms that are hard to define. The U.S. Constitution, if it's applicable, and there's -¥ that's the first issue. If the U.S. Constitution parameters are applicable to any particular situation here, which is already a first level argument. Then if it is, then there are -- there have been common law court cases that have delved into the subject of eliminating employment unnecessarily, your right of employment as being a right, protected under the Constitution. So there's a host of arguments that could be made. MR. HENSON: But as a sovereign nation, that wouldn't apply to us. MR. BURSON: That's why I said it was a first-level argument, whether or not the federal constitution would be applicable. The only thing that you're doing -¥ MR. BURGESS: So a suggestion on what words to use instead of the ambiguous words, such as which brought about a lawsuit against the nation, or which may cost in excess, or which did, using those terms. Do you have a suggestion? MR. BURSON: You need to word it in past tense where there's some objective measure for what happened, some future -¥ MR. BURGESS: You've got 30 minutes. MR. KICKINGBIRD: There are a couple of other issues. One, trying to narrow those down, we need to discuss that with you about where you want to go so we can draw a plan, and we can do that in executive session. The other part is we're not quite sure where that final resolve is going, and that needs some clarification. And the other question is a policy one. You've got someone sues and they win, and it turns out they were right in their objection, are you going to punish them by not allowing them to run for office and not employ them? So that's another issue I think we need to discuss, how to proceed on that. MR. BURGESS: If that's a matter of record and that could be proven, this would not hold water at this time. MR. KICKINGBIRD: But in drafting, in passing this, I think you want to make that clear. MR. BURGESS: We'll table this for now. And if you can start working on some wording right there and come back for discussion. We're going to move forward with our agenda for new and old business. MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: I make a motion to table. MR. WAUAHDOOAH: I second the motion. MS. ISAAC: It will report from here on and not the past people that sued us? MR. TIPPECONNIE: We'll have to look at the whole language. MR. BURGESS: And I want to do it while some of you are here. We're not trying to do anything secret. Okay. Motion to table, second by Mr. Wauahdooah. All those in favor signify by saying "aye". (Aye.) MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same sign. All those abstain, same sign. Tabled at this time. We're going into new and old business. Mr. Wauahdooah, he wants to give us an update, ladies and gentlemen, on his recent trip to New Orleans. He wanted to make sure our newspaper gets all this, because we don't want it to be said that we're not reporting to the people. Mr. Wauahdooah? MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Mr. Chairman, I went on the 27th or the 28th of March to New Orleans for the casino/hotel convention. I went with Vice-President Bunky Henson and I'll share with him, but I wanted to take about two minutes to say that we did go down there. There was tremendous ideas related by vendor, Comanche consulting groups, and also Indian tribes from the Navajos to tribes in Maine, Wisconsin, Minnesota, the Kickapoos down on the Rio Grande, the Choctaws in Louisiana. The main emphasis is not to overbuild. There's a lot of tribes out there who have overbuilt and they've gone into default. The newspaper reported the other day the first time in history, the casino industry has lost 1 percent gross revenues. You have to be very careful. The point is, and I'll defer to Mr. Henson about this, is that you must have constant communication, not only with your political body, but with the grassroots people, with your bankers, with your building contractors, and with the outside non-Indian community. Most tribes do not do this and so they have turmoil, confusion, and I think this is a good point that we need to pick up. A lot of Indian tribes are starting to wake up. We're getting ready to do a strategic planning session here. Is it this week or next week? We really need to open up our communication. That's the reason why I say we just need to disseminate this on the Website, during CBC meetings, community meetings and so forth. Mr. Henson, do you have anything to say? MR. HENSON: The important thing that they really picked out, they were talking a lot about their experiences and what they went through for building an economic development base. And a lot of that is some of the problems that we're having right now, is the CBC. There were a lot of ways in which they went through to try to build an economic base. But like Mark was saying, one of the things that we need to get out to our tribal council right now is that I know with this last year we didn't get much per cap, and there's a reason for that. It's because we are limited in our economic base. And by being limited, you're not -- your per cap is not ever going to increase, because there's a limitation to how many people can go to that casino all the time. There's so many people in Lawton, there's so many people, so that money over there is going to stay somewhat the same. So if it stays the same like that and we keep adding, just like now today we added 28 people. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Twenty-six. MR. HENSON: Twenty-six people on the list. And every month we add anywhere from 26 to 30. I think one time we had 40. So our population is increasing, which means one thing. That if we don't build our economic base up, the per cap that you're getting is going down. Of course, that's not the whole thing that the Comanche Nation wants to do. So we have to, the CBC has to look for alternatives to build an economic base. We've got our hands tied into such that the tribal council says that we can't borrow over $3 million. Okay. Well, 3 million, as the CBC trying to borrow money for 3 million, what are you going to get built with that? There's very few things you can build with $3 million to bring in an economic base, but we do have some areas that we can expand on. Maybe casino, but that's a lot of money. $3 million is not going to get you another casino. So there needs to be some big changes within the community or within the tribal government to try to untie the hands of the CBC to go into businesses and build a good economic base to where, in the future, there's going to be a lot of money coming in. We have a big asset -- we have a lot of assets right now, but they're not liquidated. I mean, they're not where you can liquidate them for money. We're worth a lot of money, and we got a cash flow, and we're drawing down on a, what, monthly basis, quarterly basis on our cash flow? But that's not getting us anywhere. We have to be -- we got to present something to the tribal council, and this is where one of the things Mark was saying, you guys need to get involved. When I say you guys, I'm talking about tribal council. You need to get involved with everything the CBC's doing, and we need to be open up to everybody over there. Maybe we can set something up with our media and bring something on the site every time we have a meeting of some sort so you know where it's going, because we have got to build up an economic base. If we don't, we're sunk. MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Mr. Vice-Chairman, thank you for that comment. Let me just finish up with this. I was astounded with some of the projects going across -- like the Indian Reservation, they had to downsize from a $1.2 billion casino, hotel, parking garage down to $890 million. They said they saved money. They were going to build a 33-story tall hotel, and they ended up building a 27-story tall hotel. It's just incredible. Other tribes are doing similar things, but they're all major traffic routes with major population areas. But they also said they were diversifying into such things as water bottling plants to sell water. They were also building a cogeneration plant up in Minnesota. All this stuff was opposed by not only Indian tribes themselves, but also within the community. Cities around them said no way, you're not going to put that on Indian land or fee land. But in the long-run, each of these groups reversed themselves, because there's constant communication and these tribes have diversified. So I look forward to the future that we can do the same thing, too. MR. BURGESS: Let me tag onto what Mr. Wauahdooah has just said about constant communication. It's when the tribal leadership meet with the structures around them. By that I mean city, county, councils, townships, when we can meet and have information and dialogue about future plans. And lately that communication from our own people has been negative. That's what hurts us, to sit down with people at a table that hear all the negativity first, and that's the question they ask us about. And that's not fair to your government, that somebody's going to start putting all this negativity out there and no factual basis. This is the tribal council results of last year's vote. Everything was approved on the ballot. That means the budget was approved as presented. And that tribal council is everyone 18 years and over, not just our 400 or 500 who come, because the constitution says they all get to vote. So members who don't get to make it to the meeting, we hear about them. Well, why didn't we hear about that? Why can't we get to vote on that, too? Why is it just those who are there and they preselect everything for us? We want to be informed of everything, too. Just because we can't get there doesn't mean we're not concerned and we don't want to vote on it. We want to hear it all. So one of the ideas was to wire us up so we can present our tribal council to members everywhere on the Internet, our own area, but that costs money, too. So some of that we hear from the absentees as well as the people here. So to tell young people that we didn't have an approved budget, but it went out to everyone to see it and vote on it. Well, that is tribal council, everyone 18 and over. They voted on it. So for it to have all this negativity to say we didn't have a budget approved, well, it's here. Just say that we're violating the constitution by having subcommittees, well, the falsehood is that these subcommittees were created to manage the programs that tribal council voted for. Everything in here, tribal council voted for, whether it's economic development -- even the election board. So every one of those things that have money going to it, tribal council approved the establishment of oversight of the funds by those subcommittees. So to tell young people who don't come to these meetings or tribal council that we should be recalled is wrong. And that's coming from our own folks. So they should tell them that every line item on here, whether it's economic development, economic enterprises, each of those groups have a body that works with it daily. And that's approved by this budget line item, and it's established because the CBC can do that. So it's putting the wrong information out to our own people and then going to the press and saying we're doing something illegal, when in fact all of this was approved by this budget, this line item here. And so when we come to vote, you get to vote it up or down. But the CBC's only seven people, and only one of us, only one of us receives a salary, and the rest can't be here every day if they've got jobs or if they're retired and doing other things. One of the changes that we need is a full-time business committee with full-time executive staff that help us do all this development that the gentlemen just brought back to us. That's what we're trying to grow to. We're going to need that, ladies and gentlemen. The tribes that they mentioned have full-time business committees, a full-time economic planning department that looks long-range at a lot of these things. And someone will say, well, you don't need that. Well, times have changed around us. Bob's going to give an update on NCAI. But all these tribes, last month we had someone tell us about the Seminole in Florida surrounded by over 20 million people with four casinos. They can give out all that per cap because they're able to. They've got all these economic enterprises going that funds the government, so they give the per cap out to the members. We barely have one economic enterprise. We're trying to make more and look internally what we can turn into an economic enterprise like construction. We constantly get berated that we're not doing something correct here. But in order to make these ventures work, we have to put money into them. In order to free up this little lagoon over here so we can put offices on it, we have to go to an underground sewer system. Then we have to fill that lagoon in so we can put more offices up for all of these programs that people want us to be in one locality. So these are things that we have to look at, and it takes planning, it takes time, and it takes staff. And if we continue to just have a part-time business committee, we'll only get part-time profit, part¥ time effort. We have to think about those changes. MRS. GOODIN: I want to thank you, Mark, for that report, because, you know, a lot of us know different people, and I know y'all do. Like in Phoenix, the Pimas, they have that big old training camp that a lot of the people are opposed to, but they made it and they're doing wonderful. They now have a convention center, a new casino convention center. I think they've got four casinos, right, and they're doing wonderful. Like y'all said, y'all wanted an open book. That should have always been open to the people. We might -- we might support y'all if y'all let us know what's happening. But we don't know anything until it's already over with. Like this road project I heard on Lee that y'all are giving 30,000 or something to, may not be a lot of money to y'all, but when we hear it we're hearing we don't have any money, but all of a sudden you guys are giving money to Comanche County or Lawton to improve a road. And, I mean, that's nice if we have the money, but we hear we don't have the money and y'all are spending that much money. It may not be much to y'all, but it is to me. MR. HENSON: Some of the things -¥ see if I can clear this up a little bit. When the budget is signed by the general council, when they vote on the budget, those monies in some of those areas like, for instance, that road, those are already budgeted in that account on the roads. So it's not that we're spending it. It's what the county, or what the general council had voted for to go do that. And most of that is federal monies anyway. MS. ISAAC: I understand that. I understand that. But a lot of that information, like you say, roads improvement, we think, well, we're going to get our roads improved, but we never do. We never do get our roads improved from our house to the highway. When we ask for it, oh, that's a misquote, that shouldn't have been stated like that. It's, you know, something else. That's what was happening when George Wallace was over the roads improvement and transportation or whatever. It's still going on. We never get the benefit of what we vote for. MR. BURGESS: Mark, will you visit with transportation and ask about an update on roads? MR. WAUAHDOOAH: It's going to go to five, 10, 15 years, at least five years into the future of everything, including roads, finances, everything. Everything. This is something we haven't done before, and we need to start doing it this way. What it boils down to is, it simply is common sense. MR. BURGESS: Carol, you had your hand up. MS. HALL: Well, the Seminoles set their blood level at 1/2, and we keep lowering ours, pretty soon 1/8, 1/16. My gosh, we're not getting any money because we have to quit paying all the kids. MR. BURGESS: A lot of your elders and grandparents voted to get grandkids on. Now that next generation wants grandkids on, so we're going to be facing the time that that generation in 15 years is going on -¥ MS. HALL: We've got to stop where. MR. BURGESS: That generation will probably want to vote descendancy. But there's two considerations that you elders can think about. If you have a grandchild who can't get on the roll because they're only 1/16 Comanche, but they have three or four other tribes in them, we can go to a blood consolidation so that all that Indian blood would be counted as Comanche. Then you can also talk about bringing the enrollment quantity back up to a quarter or half based on the future. I mean, everybody who is on, is on. It doesn't knock them off. But at some point in time in the future if you want to go to blood consolidation, again, a quarter blood, half blood, then everybody from that day has to be this blood quantum of Comanche. Other tribes have done that to keep blood quantum up and keep us married within Indian people. MS. HALL: Well, the Seminoles keep theirs 1/2. MR. BURGESS: That's the same way with the Sioux in Minnesota. There's only 400 or 500 members, and half of them, the majority are over the age of 50. They won't open the rolls up to a lot of their grandkids. And they get per cap up the kazoo. So that's what they do. They're small tribes. But we, Comanche people, we have a heart for our kids, our great grandkids we're not going to see probably, and then what are we doing to our future? We need to consider that. What are we doing to our future when we do that? MS. HALL: We'll be happy with a $5 per cap, then. MR. BURGESS: That's going to happen if we don't consider that change. MR. HENSON: One of the things that happened in the past, the reason why the different tribes opened their rolls up is that the BIA money that came, the 638 monies that came were based upon the population of the tribe. So the more population that the tribes had, the more money they got from BIA and IHS. And that was the only reason why a lot of them opened up their rolls. Now, since the casinos have come along and some of them gets per cap, some don't, that is beginning to hurt -- I shouldn't say hurt, because a lot of them wanted their grandkids on, too. So that's where it's at now. If it were me, if I had to make a decision, I would say no per cap, period, just because of where we are today. We have got to have money to build an economic base. If you're going to want money in the past, what we're doing now, what the tribe is doing now is they're serving everybody. We got all kinds of programs, good programs that serve a lot of people. But to continue to keep them rolling, we're going to have to have money to do that. If we don't have an economic base, we're not going to go anywhere. The money that we're paying out for per cap right now, what is it, $16 million a year, 17? MR. BURGESS: Fifteen for per cap last year, and a million -¥ MR. HENSON: For two years that everybody decided that, no, don't give us our per cap, just give us an interest rate in what you buy, or what you -- your economic base that you have. So if they were able to do that and use that money to invest in some kind of economic base, your per cap would go up and continue to go up by you reinvesting it in your tribe itself. MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Let me close this out, Mr. Chairman. I know we have other business here. The successful tribes that were there at this meeting always had a minimum of 25 percent reinvestment of their net profits back into the industry or a related industry. We don't do that, and we need to go that route. That's all I'll say. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: May I ask a question? My question is, why can't we as a tribe cut down on the high salaries that these people are getting in our casinos, economic development, and all the programs that we got? The ones that are getting high salaries and not showing us a thing that we would like to have. MR. HENSON: There's one thing -¥ I've got to say this. It's not very nice, but I've got to say this. The people that we pay for the casinos, the economic development, all those that you're saying are drawing a high salary, if you take a look at the industry out there, their salaries are lower than the industry. So if we decide to take their salaries away from them and then try to hire somebody else, there's a good possibility that we're not going to get anybody. Or the people that we get is going to make our economic development, our casinos or wherever they're hired, go down. You want quality people in those positions. Now, there might be -- that might be a question. I mean, you know, I'm not going to deny that. I feel a certain way on some of them, too, and I'm closer, probably, to them -- I visit them more in meetings than probably you do. But we have a lot of smart people out there, we do, and their salaries are not commensurate with what the industry is. It's lower. It seems high to us because where we're at and where we're from. MR. BURGESS: We'll give it over to Mr. Tippeconnie to make his report from the NCAI visit. MR. TIPPECONNIE: One thing that maybe some of you don't know, but the NCAI is the old National Indian Organization, and they have a great history of working for the interests of Indian Country nationwide, and that includes Alaska natives. The National Congress has an executive board of 12 persons, and I happen to be on that executive board. I think that's a tremendous honor, I guess to me, but it's a great honor for our tribes in the Southern Plains area. We just had a legislative session in Washington, D.C., this past week. Normally that session is very, very productive, because the Congress is preparing, should be preparing at this moment the 2012 budget. Well, as you know, and Aurilla mentioned it, you know, the times aren't exactly the best, because there's a great deficit in America. And so the Congress is debating how we handle this predicament of overspending. So normally, again, the legislative session is very productive, because we're able to meet with senators one-to-one, we meet with the congressmen one-to-one, we meet with the secretaries of the department one-to-one, and we have great results, generally, within the pending budgets. Well, this year we did the same thing. We met with congressmen, we met with secretaries, we met with people from the White House. We met with numerous people in the federal government, all on matters of Indian issues, very important issues. Issues such as land to trust, you know, economic development, energy development, taxation. I could go on and on. There's just numerous things that we met on, and we presented an agenda to these different departments, like IHS, you know. So all these thing that are done in the National Congress, I'd like to say are very, very productive. We put on the web page earlier this year the State of Indian Nations, which is an address that comes from the president of NCAI. It states how Indian Country is at the moment and where Indian Country wants to go. And when I say Indian Country, that's all or many, many, 560 plus tribes in the United States, including numerous in Alaska. So all this body gets together and we have a very, very hard productive time in Washington. You just don't sit there. You may be in the Congress, you may be in a hearing committee. The other good thing about it is that we get to know all these people personally. As an example, Jody Gillette was a person in the White House that worked for President Obama. She's now moved to the Department of Interior as a special assistant to the Secretary, but we know her well and she knows us. And the new person coming in is from the Navajo Nation, Mr. Charles Galbreath. I got to visit with him and get to know him and even speak Navajo to him. The thing is, we have people like this that we know now firsthand and is a benefit to Comanche Nation, but it's a very goof benefit to all our tribes. When I go in there I have a responsibility to speak and represent 26 Indian nations, and that's in the states of Texas, Kansas and Oklahoma. So that's quite a role. We have to meet in advance and talk and visit with us as tribes and see what kind of issues that we have or concerns. Well, I could go over these things. But one thing I would like you to do, if you would take the time, go into NCAI.com and you will find all this kind of information. It's very valuable to know what's happening in Indian affairs. It's a very trying time. But the one thing I might say to you, in the President's address, and we're very honored by the President because we pushed him very hard to not reduce any budgets in 2011 or 2012 budget year. Reduce other budgets, but don't reduce tribal budgets because there is a responsibility, a duty of the federal government to uphold the trust obligations to Indian nations, and that's by treaty, other statutes. So the President came forward holding the budgets harmless. Now, whether the Congress does that, the House does. Well, the House has a new subcommittee on Indian affairs. It's the first time they've had one in the House of Representatives. We met with Mr. Kelly and also there's others there and I met with them, and I'm going to keep that close relationship going, because I found out when we have issues, the best thing is to get right on the phone and talk to them about it. And they've got an open ear and an open door. So it's a great advantage to be part of the NCAI for Indian nations. And, of course, I say for the Comanche Nation and Kiowa Nation, Apache Nation, and many other tribes in this 26 body of tribes here. Now, there's other representatives that represent other nations across the country. And I might say we were honored on so many occasions, because these secretaries now all want to be visiting with us. That's amazing. Even the Department of Justice, you know, and the one that I have to tell you that we're having a hard time with now yet is the Office of Management Budget. But the Office of Management Budget has somewhat made a notion that they will have some meeting with tribal leaders. We're delighted at that because they've always felt that they were so exclusive, and that they work for the President and that they don't have to hear these things. So now the Office of Management Budget is being challenged to listen to Indian Country. And when they look at a budget, say don't cut them because there's a statutory obligation to these budgets. Well, anyway, go to NCAI.com and you'll get a lot more information. And I'm going to be sure that I put things up there more. I think the State of Indian Nations -- I got up there real quick. I don't know if you pulled that up, but it's a good address. We had thousands of responses. That was a live national broadcast when that was done from Washington, D.C., and I happened to be there with that. At that time, we had many international return calls coming in on that address. And so we're giving world-wide notice that Indian nations are alive, they're real, they have these situations. And just like the points of diversity of Comanche. Come do business with us even. You know, we tell the Secretary of State, Ms. Hillary Clinton, that we want to be involved when they have tours and they take trips to China or whatever. Include Indian nations. Take them, not just a senator, not just a Comanche Chamber of Commerce. Take an Indian nation to China, to Thailand, or such places. So we're pushing these. It's a great place for Indian people to be a participant. So, again, go to NCAI.com and get updated information. MR. BURGESS: Thank you, Bob. MR. TAHKOPFER: How many years has NCAI, you know, been in existence? And what they're trying to do up to this point in time? Their topics are not all that much for the Indians. We're still at the bottom of the totem pole, and that's a part of the bureaucratic mumbo jumbo. I don't agree. It may be a great organization, but what have they accomplished for our tribes here? You know, they don't care about us. "They're Indians." MR. TIPPECONNIE: No, no, they do care. This organization is -¥ MR. TAHKOPFER: I'm not trying to be negative, I'm just saying they don't care about us. MR. TIPPECONNIE: They do. I take exception to that. MR. TAHKOPFER: The federal government doesn't care about us. MR. TIPPECONNIE: You're right, we always have to work, and that's why I say we have a hard time right now. You hear Ryan from Kentucky in the House saying do away with Indian affairs, do away with treaties, do away with IHS. So there are always those that we have to battle with. But at the same time, this NCAI has really gotten recognized. You know, we're in the front door with the President. And like I say, it doesn't matter the party. The tribes don't look at the party. They look at who is going to do business for us. But it is hard, you're right. The administrations and politics can change. MR. HENSON: One of the things NCAI does, they're right up there on the hill. If there's any changes in Indian Country that affects Indian Country, they're immediately out there working on it. They supply solicitors, they talk -- they know the congressmen and the senators up there pretty quick, are known pretty good. So when something happens where that's going to affect Indian Country, they're always right up on top of it, and it's been going on for years. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Sixty-some years. MR. WAUAHDOOAH: They're lobbyists. MR. VOELKER: I've listened to Mr. Tippeconnie make reports on NCAI activities from last fall until now, and I've never heard mention about our SIA involvement. And I need you all to know since we're on NCAI, that last fall at the conference in Albuquerque, NCAI asked SIA to be present to provide a special session. It's an update to all tribes as far as current laws, the brand new authorities that we, SIA, Comanche Nation, have forced through that have never existed before, ever, in Indian Country. And we were there. We actually had to correct the NARF attorneys, because their information wasn't current. And it was standing room only. And so SIA is in that forum, which Bob is on the primary council, and we're getting the word out and we're leading the way. The important thing is we're leading the way. We're doing what no other tribe in the history of this country has ever done. I just had to throw that in so you know we're involved at that level. MS. ISAAC: What about water? Didn't y'all talk about the water rights? MR. TIPPECONNIE: Oh, yes, we talked about water. Water is very significant to the western Oklahoma tribes, the eastern Oklahoma tribes. It's coming. There's another way we look at the water. We look -- Department of Interior is where we have a tribal budget council, and I sit on that council. And in that council, we push these budget things. So there's another place that we get in, talk very explicit about budgets. One of the high priorities in this area, you know, from tribal leaders of all the tribes here is water. So we've been asking for money to do water planning. You need a lot of planning done to say what are your water rights, what is your territory, you know, and all this matter of statutory circumstances. So that when we get ready, because it's coming, I'll tell you, we have to challenge others for our water rights. It's coming. MS. ISAAC: It's already passed. Mr. Tippeconnie, I read all the time. It may be insignificant to you, but Dr. Dennis Chappabitty went to Washington a few weeks ago fighting for the rights of the Indians he's fighting for in California. He said there weren't that many tribes represented. MR. BURGESS: What was it? MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Department of Energy. MR. BURGESS: Was it funding or what? MS. ISAAC: It was a meeting that he was -- I can't remember exactly the right words, I should have copied it. But he had gone to Washington and there weren't that many tribes represented. And if you can't make your meetings, why can't you ask Mr. -- is it Tahkopfer that was really interested in the water rights? How come he couldn't be -¥ MR. TIPPECONNIE: See, there's a trust responsibility to Indian Naitons, and that's the Secretary of Interior. So we go to the Secretary of Interior on our water rights. And he -- the Secretary, the office has a responsibility to safeguard our water rights. That's where we give all our effort. Now, at the same time, the Department of Energy, you know, they come and visit with us. So what is beginning to happen in government, which I like, is they're beginning to have meetings with each other and talk about these matters. Okay. Some of the meetings like he went to, those are little -- right now, one thing that's happening in Indian Country is consultation sessions across everything. If you pick up the newspaper, you're going to have it today. We can't make all those. So what we're attempting to do is have, an example, we have in the NCAI, we have attorneys, we have a staff, and those staff, we ask them to participate and brief us. I might say even Hobb, Strauss, you know, the firm, on many occasions sends me things that are going on on legislative actions or activity in Congress. There's many ways, but you're correct. If we get something that we need to be part of, there's other representatives that can go, I agree with that thought. And we have to be very smart about that. When we do that, it takes -- we have to tell you that, it takes dollars and cents to put in budgets to do things like that, you know. And tribes are getting more sophisticated and capable to participate in the national scene or local scene. Like we talk about the City of Lawton and such. We just have to have budgets for that. We have to have staff on board that are salaried. You know, it's past the time to not salary the CBC. And, you know, it's just past the time, because their talent is needed to safeguard all these things. Now there's other people, too. MS. ISAAC: Have you ever found out from the Bureau whether they consider water a mineral or not? MR. BURGESS: It's not a mineral. MR. WAUAHDOOAH: We have a set of water codes in place for underground water. I don't know if the nation knows that, but we have codes for water right now. Mr. Tahkopfer is also our consultant, and we do need water professionals on -- in addition to our elected body, we do need some professionals working full-time for us. That might be part of our strategic planning discussion. MR. BURGESS: We've got to move on, ladies and gentlemen. Mr. Ramsey is with us, Chris Ramsey & Associates. The topic here is about the -- at one time we termed it assisted living center. But due to funding or choice of words, we may have to revamp that and call it an independent living center. Mr. Ramsey, we're going to give you the floor, and I know you've got whoever the folks that are working on the subcommittee from the elders group anyway. MR. WAUAHDOOAH: You can take the microphone out. MR. RAMSEY: Hello, tribal members. I would like to thank you for allowing me to be here today. My name is Chris Ramsey. I represent Ramsey & Associates, a professional design firm out of Norman, Oklahoma. I was contacted by the elders task force committee to look into the alternative of designing an independent living facility for the Comanche Nation. They wanted me to research how other tribes had done such a facility, how they had funded it, and facts of that nature. After much study and review and meeting people from other tribes and other tribal representatives, I had found out that most of them funded their tribal independent living facilities through the Community Block Program and the 202 assistance program. So I've gone back in and I originally had presented plans or concepts on an assisted living center, and as Mr. Burgess has said, that became not economically feasible. So we scaled things back a little bit, redesigned the structure, recalculated our costs, and what you -¥ I think we have handed out some brochures. But what we're presenting at this point is a $1.8 million facility with 24 living units in it, 20,000 square foot. That facility will have a common area, a safe room, a hobby area, recreational area, dining area, media area, multipurpose area, and it will be located at this point, the agreement is, would be north of the hospital on KCA property. I am in negotiations right now with the City of Lawton as far as they're trying to run a new water line to the hospital. And if we can get things rolling fast enough, we can incorporate the water supply lines for this system into that project. So it's kind of urgent that we move on that as quickly as possible and take advantage of that so it will minimize your cost as far as development goes. This facility is designed with 55 and older tenants. It is an independent living facility versus an assisted living facility, so the key difference is that you don't have a full¥ time nursing staff on board, but you do have a full-time staff. The other facilities right now, they have four to five people on staff full-time. Two of those are hired directly by the tribe. The other two are -- two or three are brought in from the Southwest Oklahoma Development Authority Work Program. So I think that the tribe with the funding that they've got set aside currently can make this happen with your support and the vote of the CBC members that we can get on board and get this thing going. And the facility, just a little more -- to be a little more direct on it, some of the features that are designed in it, the facility is a 100 percent geothermal system. In other words, all the heating and air conditioning and hot water is supplied by the geothermal system. The reason for that is to take advantage of tax credits by the government and to reduce their yearly operating cost of the facility. The other two tribes that I spoke with that have an independent living facility say their annual cost of operating that facility are $60,000 when it's all said and done. A lot of the costs are deduced by government subsidation programs, aging programs, senior assistance, et cetera. The facility itself was designed as an all-steel facility to minimize the amount of maintenance that needs to be done on the facility over the next 30 years. So we tried to make it as maintenance-free as possible. I believe that is really all that I have to say at this point and I'll open the floor for questions. MR. TIPPECONNIE: How many occupants? MR. RAMSEY: Twenty occupants. MR. WAUAUDOOAH: Let me draw attention to Carol Hall and your senior assistance people, the elders who are helping to do this as volunteers. Would you stand up and recognize them? MS. HALL: We have Cornelia Karty, Marion Simmons, and Earl has been very helpful with the cause for us. And then Aurilla. And then also Mr. Laurenzana Almanza. MR. BURGESS: All right. MR. WAUAHDOOAH: I want to applaud them for doing this to this point. It's all been voluntary. I'm sad to say the CBC has put this on the back burner, but I applaud you for putting this on the front burner again. I don't know if this is what we really want in terms of the independent versus assisted. Is this what the tribal council wants? Is this what -¥ MR. BURGESS: You might explain the funding reality. MR. RAMSEY: The funding reality through much research and checking with HUD is HUD currently has no programs for the development of an assisted living center that are currently within the budget or even in the five-year range of HUD at this point. That is why we had to go back and redesign and reconfigure and relabel this as an independent living facility, so you could qualify for HUD funding to help operate or construct the facility. MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Let me go back to Carol Hall. Is this what the elders want? MS. HALL: Well, when we made the survey, we wanted assisted living. That's what it came out to. We have done the 10 counties and the seven tribes. That's -- they wanted assisted living. MR. BURGESS: Carol, how long have you been doing this now? This desire has been there since '05? MS. HALL: Yes. MR. BURGESS: Tribal council passed the resolution, did it not? MS. HALL: '04, but I started on it back in 1984. MR. BURGESS: Let's stick with '04. But I understand that. MS. HALL: Now, is it '04 or '05? MR. NARCOMEY: '04 is when we first brought the resolution. MS. HALL: Jacquetta McClung and myself asked for a resolution to get a nursing home, and I have never given up hoping one of these days we can get it. But if it's built on Indian trust land, we can do later what we want to. But we got to get it built. MR. BURGESS: Got to get it started. Is everybody -- everybody knows Mr. Yeahoo, Earl Yehoo? Earl, I know that the Kiowas say they're behind it. The question comes to us, the leadership here, and may not be from your membership in the Elders Council, but the question comes to us, well, if we're going to build it all, what are the Kiowas and the Apaches going to do? The question has come, are the Kiowas going to put money into it, too? So I don't know that. We haven't sat down with either business committee. It's a little -- I'll say all three tribes were in this popcorn situation with leadership. It's sadly so. But we -- our people are wanting to know that, if we're just going to be the only ones to fund it, and then comments are being made, well, it should be on Comanche land only. But ladies and gentlemen, if we go to build a structure and it's on KCA lands, then theoretically, KCA, all three tribes would have to approve it. Now do you see that we have to get approval of the KCA, and the other two tribes will have to approve it? Then we would end up probably taking out a lease or just giving that -- KCA would just give us a gift lease, if I can use that word. It won't be deeded to us, but we'd be allowed to use that spot of land without cost to either three tribes, because we all agreed to it. And then the cost to state it on a monthly basis, we're hoping that we can keep it below around $400 a month for every individual who's in there. Because then an independent living center, you can utilize that. You're on trust land, you can keep the cost lower. Because of your Medicare, Medicaid that will reimburse some of the costs. What was it, Mr. Ramsey, about 30 percent? MR. RAMSEY: Fifteen to 30 percent. MR. BURGESS: Fifteen to 30 percent of your living cost there will be paid for by your retirement or your Social Security payments and all that. And paying it up front, the way we're trying to do it, you're not paying a monthly lease on that room like the private nursing homes or independent facilities charge you forever and ever. It's all paid for. You'll pay the actual cost of residing in there. I hope I'm getting that right, but there's a lot of work we're going to have to do on the background of it, the paperwork, and getting matching funds. Currently we have 1.7 million. We're closer to $2 million. At the end of this fiscal year we should be 2.2. And so we still plan on putting that aside. I'm assuming that tribal council is going to approve that. All right? So that as we build the structure, we plan to add on more and make more improvements and add more rooms for those people that want to come in. MS. HALL: I'd like to mention that Earl Yeahoo has been helping us since day one when he started with the Kiowas, you know, and getting through to them. Also with Apaches. We still have to -- get Apaches. MR. BURGESS: Okay. MR. YEAHOO: We made a request to the Kiowa tribe for a resolution to grant land to this project. We received their resolution approving that. And we're in the process of getting a resolution from the Apache tribe granting their permission to authorize use of that land, that 30 acres that we're talking about. So we're near completion of that. And the question about the tribes contributing to the cost, we haven't really -- I mean, I haven't approached anybody on that yet. But I think that this is going to be one of the things that we need to do next. I'm like the rest of our members on this task force, is that we need to get this thing moving and get it approved and get everything in place so that we can go ahead and start the process of establishing some buildings and this kind of thing. And Mr. Ramsey has been very helpful in providing the direction that we need for the things that we're trying to establish. MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Mr. Iago, I have a question for him. Our sister tribe has a nursing home. I don't know how they finance it, but I know they have oil and gas type of thing. But we are going the least expensive route, if that is what the elders want, and if it's legal with tribal resolution for the tribal council, then we should probably go this way. Now, are we looking to the KCA for a 100-year lease with them to do this? MR. IAGO: I'm not real sure about that. MS. HALL: Fifty years. It's 50 years plus a renewal at the end of that 50 years. So it could be, you know, forever. MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Let me just leave you with this. Thank you. The nation, in the budget for the assisted living nursing home, we bumped the budget to over 300? MS. HALL: 354. MR. WAUAHDOOAH: 354,000. So it's been upped. And so we're trying to get this thing going. MRS. GOODIN: Would you explain again about the rent or lease on each of these? MR. BURGESS: I'm going to let Mr. Ramsey clear it up, because that's some of the words we got from the other tribes. Once it's paid for, the rentals on the units was at a minimum 400, maybe. MR. RAMSEY: That's correct. Both tribes that I checked with, Choctaw and Cheyenne Arapaho, their rent is set at $400 a month. I might interject, too, as a question regarding, is that what you want as the elders. Even with the scaling back and the downsizing and everything with this facility, I still maintain the infrastructure of the details that are needed to easily transform this into an assisted living center. There will be no construction work that has to go in, no electrical, no plumbing or anything that will have to be changed at all to convert that over. And this thing also is at the request of Chairman Burgess through some of our meetings is totally expandable in any direction they want to go as far as adding, you know, community rooms, adding additional common areas. You know, originally we had a full-fledged kitchen, a central kitchen where meals were fixed and served at the facility. With this change with the independent, they each have cooking appliances within their individual units where they can cook their own meals. A lot of the other tribes, a lot of their tenants do that. A lot of them, they bring in meals. They provide transportation if they need them to go to the doctor, to the casinos, wherever they need to go. The reason for the KCA idea was because of the proximity to the hospital in case there was medical care in an emergency situation that is just a block or two away. MRS. GOODIN: So it will be constructed handicapped accessible from the get-go? MR. RAMSEY: Yes, ma'am. MR. BURGESS: Yes. Doors and all that will be designed handicapped accessible. MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Mr. Ramsey, in case KCA balks at this proposal, is there a backup location? MS. HALL: Well, it was mentioned before that there was a place over there by the vo-tech. Isn't that what they said, Raymond? MR. BURGESS: South of town there? MR. MORRIS: It's land subject to the county and state and everything else. On this federal land, we won't be so sticky through all that. MS. HALL: But in the surveys, the elders, the people that we surveyed wanted to be by the hospital, because they said if they were way out there south, their folks wouldn't come to see them. But they would go to the hospital, they would stop by and see them, and it would be more convenient. MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Going through the KCA is like going through the CFR court. It takes forever. Mr. Ramsey? MR. TOM NARCOMEY: My name is Tom Narcomey. A quick comment. I believe the KCA can qualify for this CDBG grant. If they can put in the application and, say, shoot for 2 million or something to expand that, expand the nursing home, I think that all would -- it may work. But it would be good if the KCA -¥ MR. BURGESS: We have to develop a new nonprofit organization at KCA again to do that. We're in the process of trying to get that paperwork done to start a new nonprofit under the KCA, because the one they had expired about three or four years back. MR. TOM NARCOMEY: Because I know the KCA got an ANA grant to do the waterpark. So I would think they would get -¥ MR. BURGESS: I'm just telling you, they don't have a nonprofit status, so we're trying to create a now nonprofit status for KCA. MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Mr. Ramsey, or Carol, what do you need from the CBC? MR. BURGESS: Hang on. A question came up how much this cost structure with the scaled-back plan we have. MR. RAMSEY: 1.8 million versus the 3.2 that we proposed with the assisted living. MR. HENSON: This is 20 units? MR. TRACY: 24 units. I was incorrect. 20,000 feet, 24 units. They're all one-bedroom units; whereas, the assisted living center, they had four two-bedroom units. MR. REDELK: Mr. Ramsey, on those 24 units, are they connected in any way? MR. TRACY: They're all connected. As I said, the facility is designed exactly the way we had in mind with the assisted living facility. There's a common corridor that connects them all, so you'll have units on one side or the other, a hall. But each one has its own private individual entrance from the exterior as well. So they have total privacy, even though they're within one structure. MR. BURGESS: There's a hand up back there. MR. NELSON: That location that's located on KCA land, if he does the feasibility about the water and electricity there? MR. RAMSEY: Yes. MR. NELSON: Is it good? MR. RAMSEY: Yes. Yes, it is. MR. NELSON: The location itself and the feasibility of the yearly cost, did you break that down at all? MR. RAMSEY: We haven't gotten into that yet, no. MR. NELSON: From the last time we visited, you had a yearly cost. MR. RAMSEY: Are you talking specifically for the utilities? MR. NELSON: No, I'm talking specifically for the overhead cost for that facility per year. MR. RAMSEY: Yes, we have, $60,000. MR. NELSON: And that's everything? MR. RAMSEY: Yes. That's the actual cost beyond the subsidation and programs and everything outside of that. So basically what I'm saying is that's the utility cost, the water, sewer, trash, just the general operating cost of -- and the salaries of the two to three persons that will be staffed. MR. NELSON: With that service of 20 people at $400 a month, what would be the actual we need to come up with to keep it going? MR. RAMSEY: 60,000 per year. MR. NELSON: That's counting the debt service itself? MR. RAMSEY: Yes. MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Mr. Ramsey or Carol, what would you need from the CBC at this point? MR. RAMSEY: I would need to go ahead with the architectural plans, specifications. Those are critical to get, and two reasons for that. One is to nail down the overall cost precisely. And I think my estimates are very close, but it would be nice to be able to present that actually to the penny what those costs would be. As well as Mr. Burgess and some of the task force members asked me to prepare some options along with that, in case the board or the tribal membership wanted to or decide to add amenities to this, such as gazebos, things of that nature as well. The other reason is, is because of the timing with the water line that's coming in that's been designed for the new hospital through the City of Lawton so that we can do our water tap onto that, provide them with our plans and what our needs are going to be for that line. MR. WAUAHDOOAH: What's the time frame for that water tap? MR. RAMSEY: They told me if I could have those plans in to them within 30 days, that we'd be okay. MR. BURGESS: This water tap, if you lay it in there, will it have enough pressure for adding on four units and four units, 12 more -¥ MR. RAMSEY: Yes. It would be designed for expandability. And that's another reason that the city wants to see water usage as you're going to be and what our needs are as well. MR. TIPPECONNIE: I have one question. Maybe Carol can help me. Is there some understanding that, you know, there's only 24 occupants initially here. Is there some understanding that the Kiowa and the Apache would also have persons in the facility? MS. HALL: Yes. I think it would only be right. You know, it's KCA. And if they can afford it, you know. Just like any place. MR. TIPPECONNIE: So it is open to all three? MS. HALL: You open it and you take applications. MR. NARCOMEY: It has to be open to all three tribes because it's on KCA lands. MR. TIPPECONNIE: I just wanted to know if there was some understanding going upfront. MR. HENSON: It's going to be leased by the Comanche tribe, right? So are you going to have Comanche preference in your application? MS. HALL: No. Whoever has the money to go in, just like they do in the real world, but they got to be KCA. MR. HENSON: You could still do that, but you could have Comanche preference. And I'm only saying that. I'm not trying to keep them out. I'm only saying that because we have to pay for the lease. If there's some provision to allow, to make the lease go down for them to come in, or something like that, instead of us having to pay the full price of the lease. I'm just -¥ MR. BURGESS: We worked that out with the tribe about a cost reimbursement type thing. Mr. Ramsey has another statement. MR. RAMSEY: As part of my proposal, and I don't want to get the cart before the horse here. I would like to submit a proposal once we do get the plans and specifications taken care of in which I, on behalf of the tribe and as a representative of the tribe, I don't know the legal jargon on this, but to oversee the construction of the project as a project manager on the tribes that we have with the intention of utilizing as much labor and trade from the Native American community as possible, as to supplement what Mr. Burgess and the council's been talking about today as far as economic development, providing jobs and so on and so forth. There's also other programs the government has issued this year, as you well know, to start new jobs, promote new jobs, et cetera. So those are things we can look into, and I would like to. MR. WAUAHDOOAH: So in addition to being an architect, you're a building contractor? MR. RAMSEY: Yes. MS. HALL: I'd like to mention that since we started this project, the survey, 28 of those people that wanted to go into that assisted living, they were happy it was going to be all Indian, they're all deceased now. So we need to build it as soon as possible. We have people out there that need to go into the facility. MR. BURGESS: Mr. Ramsey, we do have Comanche Nation Construction. We can discuss if they want to take that option and bring them on, or if they say they don't want to be involved with this project, it's too small or whatever, then you can deal directly with us. So we'll set up a meeting there. MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Mr. Chairman, we have the pleasure today in our audience of Eddie Valdez. He's an attorney with Comanche County, am I correct? You probably had something to do with planning. MR. BURGESS: Hang on. Anybody in the room that wants to leave, leave now. MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Would you mind standing up, Mr. Valdez? I don't know if you would want to comment on behalf of Comanche County, but you're also Comanche, so -¥ MR. VALDEZ: I'm quarter Comanche. I've come to some of the meetings out here. I always go eat and everything else, go to powwows and things like that. Just come out here and kind of get a taste for what goes on in these meetings out here. I'll probably be giving you guys a cell phone call. MR. WAUAHDOOAH: You think the county would have some input into this? MR. VALDEZ: It's very interesting sitting here listening. There's a lot of things that could be done. You've got legal representation here today, but a lot of these ideas are great ideas. It's kind of interesting to see how long they've been going on, the kind of work and stuff like this that has been put in these programs. I think it's great. These programs just sound like it's great and we're heading in the right direction. But, yeah, as far as location out there on Lawrie Tatum Road, I think that's a good location, too. There's a lot of things that have to be done. I know working with the City of Lawton is not exactly easy sometimes. Try to put yourself under time restraints like 30 days to work with the City of Lawton is not exactly the easiest thing to get done. MR. BURGESS: Thank you, sir. Chris, is there -¥ MR. RAMSEY: I believe that's it. MR. BURGESS: So at this time, the objective average design would average, what did you say, 1.8? MR. RAMSEY: Yes. MR. TIPPECONNIE: The construction, you mean? MR. RAMSEY: Yes. MR. BURGESS: Committee, again, thank you very much. We appreciate y'all being here. We want to see this done. We're not practicing those past practices that were going on. Yeah, we got a hand up in the back. MR. NELSON: It should be the last question, Mr. Chairman. Secretary Tippeconnie, you're going to be asked this at general council, so I'm going to ask you. How much money is in the bank for this project? MR. TIPPECONNIE: It's near 2 million. MR. NELSON: There you go. MR. BURGESS: I think we mentioned that once or twice earlier. MS. HENDRIX: It should be 5 million. Go back to 2004, and every time we voted on it, plus the last chairman had 4 million. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Should have been, but it isn't. MR. BURGESS: If I could say, based on market conditions then, those market conditions don't exist today, so the accounting is there. We're doing our best. MS. HENDRIX: The thing is when the budgets were approved to put money back, it was never put back, so we don't have the 5 million? MR. TIPPECONNIE: We always close the fiscal year. I can't speak to all of the past, but I looked at some of them. We closed it. In some cases we don't have any balances standing. So what happens is it covers, you know, the spending. So there was no money carried forward. And since I've been here, we've been putting it away, you know, making sure, in a separate account. MS. HENDRIX: So even though it was approved in the past, it never was put in an account? MR. BURGESS: Right. It was left in general fund. Thank you again, Mr. Ramsey. MR. NARCOMEY: Mr. Chairman, I'll make a quick comment here. I'm in favor of this. I may be the only one on this committee that's in favor of it. MR. BURGESS: You're not the only one. I am. MR. NARCOMEY: I think 1.8 million to build this is a small price to pay for our elders. Because every one of us here, we are not getting any younger. I guarantee you that. Back when I was 18, 21 years old, I never did dream I would be 66, you know. But I'm at that stage now, and some of you guys are older than I am. But this is going to come in handy for our elders. Even though there's just going to be 24 rooms, it's still going to help the elders. And the way I look at it, we have programs that we're just wasting money on every year. Every year we are wasting money on. Take for one, economic development. What have they done? I haven't brought back -- we give them right at a million a year. They haven't even brought back into the tribe 10 cents. Why do we need them? Let's drop them from the budget and put it into something that's going to be worthwhile for the elders and the rest of the tribe at one time or another. That's my comment. MR. BURGESS: Thank you. MS. HENDRIX: Mr. Chairman, I think that's a good idea. When we get in general council, I think there's a lot of programs that we can cut that haven't shown a profit, haven't shown anything back to the tribe, that we could even go the 3.2 million for the assisted. I think the people would be willing to give up some of these things that aren't making money anyway and costing us more than a million to run it. So there's another million right there. MR. BURGESS: I just want to say that since I came into office, shortly thereafter this CBC, not because of me but because of the opinions of a lot of people, we restricted numbers of members on committees, we restricted their meeting times, we've limited their reimbursements for meetings. We've done a lot of things to keep costs down. In fact, I had some committee members tell me we can only offer you crackers, cheese, water and coffee because we reduced our budget. And I said, well, I'm sorry to say this today, we didn't have rolls or something for you today. We try to have something here at this meeting for all of our folks who need a snack or two to get you through between breakfast and either lunch or late dinner. But those things, it didn't hurt me for them to tell me that. Because I know, then, that they, too, have to be more attentive to how they spend their money as opposed to catering dinners and catering lunch. You know, if they have to eat like the rest of us do here, whether it's on the go or just as lightly as our budget will handle it, then we have to do that. So we have done a lot to try to restrict costs. This accusation of spending $15 million on subcommittees, that doesn't happen that way, because it was approved by a line item budget for these committees to oversee the funds that y'all approved to be spent in these areas. MRS. HENDRIX: I think a good suggestion would be if we ask for volunteers on some of these committees and pay them per diem, mileage, and if they're there all day, a meal. But if you're Comanche, you're proud to be that and you can help the tribe, that's what you want to do. I think we need more volunteers and people to say I'm willing to help whatever you need without getting paid. Now it seems like everybody wants to get on a committee because they want to get paid. MR. BURGESS: But at the same time, some people, for instance, those of us who might hold jobs and come to this meeting or come to subcommittee meetings or go to work sessions, we leave our jobs without pay and we come in here and do things. And then that's a Monday through Friday. Or when we travel for the nation, perhaps Darrell had a job that he couldn't -- he could leave, but he has to take it as vacation time, travel for the nation, or go without pay from his regular job. That's what happens. We talk about we should have a full¥ time committee that's in here, whether they're young or old, maybe be like the United States Constitution, 35 years and older to sit on the council, because that time we think you have a lot of common sense and Comanche experience to handle these functions. We should have seven subcommittees that handle a lot of these things, but our predecessors established all these other committees without coming back to the constitution and putting one of us as head of every subcommittee, and that subcommittee comes right back here every month giving a report. That's the restructuring, reorganization we should be doing internally. We should have done it a long time ago, right. You can't just stop it on Monday and begin it on Tuesday. There has to be a type of transition to bring that forward, and it should be in our constitution as well. MRS. HENDRIX: Can we not request at general council people that would volunteer to sit on these committees for mileage? Because I know gas is so high, but have them sit on these committees? They're doing it. MR. BURGESS: Elder committee, I'm not trying to pick on you, but you get a stipend per meeting and somebody puts in for mileage, what do you get? MR. TIPPECONNIE: Only stipend. MR. MORRIS: We're only paid stipend once a month regardless of how many times we meet, and we generally meet two times a week on our projects. We only get a stipend once a month, that's all. MR. BURGESS: But then again, it's not that everybody can do it free. There's things in life that come up. So our people have to be encouraged to be part of government as well. If they don't want to volunteer, if they don't want the stipend, turn it back in. That's the volunteer. MRS. HENDRIX: Can't we ask for volunteers? MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Mr. Chairman, I think we need to move on. Mr. Narcomey? You're here, sir. You may approach the bench. MR. TOM NARCOMEY: I want to correct this resolution. This was done last month. We've been over this a lot of times, but this is the cemetery resolution. This is the one that was presented last month. And I also gave her one also, so she would know what to type in get there. I seen a resolution that the chairman, secretary-treasurer signed, and it left out the smallpox blankets. That's the main reason for the -- one of the main reasons for this resolution, also to nominate. And I wanted to come here to correct that resolution to add the smallpox blankets. And also if you looked at the minutes last month, that was discussed, and I guess it was approved to put it in there, but when the resolution come out it wasn't in there. Also there was one about to, I guess, repeal the resolution I guess around May to postpone the nomination. May 2010. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yeah, to rescind that one. MR. TOM NARCOMEY: Repeal that one and reaffirm the October '08 to nominate. I guess that's the only one that would be added in there as a whereas. And if you wanted to add the land description, it's already in 2008 but you wanted to add it again. So that's why I came up here to clarify this resolution, because all the CBC vote on this resolution, but when it come out, it was different. I don't know who typed it or who had it typed like that, but I would assume that you would -- the resolution would be approved the way it was presented and the way every CBC approved it. MR. NARCOMEY: What did you leave out? MR. TIPPECONNIE: He's left out on this one the rescinding of those others that needs to be in here. MR. NARCOMEY: What was left out? Just answer my question. What was left out? MR. TIPPECONNIE: On the blankets he's saying, on the smallpox blankets. MR. NARCOMEY: Didn't we discuss that after we passed the resolution at the last meeting? I said if it's not on there, make sure it is on there. How come you didn't put it on there? We all agreed to do it. MR. TIPPECONNIE: I understand that, but -¥ MR. NARCOMEY: But how come you didn't do it? MR. TIPPECONNIE: The chairman and I discussed it. MR. NARCOMEY: In other words, you didn't do what you was supposed to do. MR. TOM NARCOMEY: What the CBC passed and didn't put it in there. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Let me ask this question. I want to be clear myself. MR. TOM NARCOMEY: Me, too. MR. TIPPECONNIE: Is this positive that this occurred, it's real? MR. TOM NARCOMEY: Oral history it was. If you think of oral history as rumors, well, then -¥ MR. TIPPECONNIE: That's the only thing. We want to be sure it's true. MR. HENSON: If I can recall correctly, there was a discussion of the Comanche that we had at Fort Sill. And this was brought up as one of the issues that were -- and correct me if I'm wrong. They take issue with this because it's -- there's no proof of it. It's just oral. It's not definitely proved that -¥ MR. TOM NARCOMEY: The council passed this resolution in April 2007, and it's the same language that was used in 2007. We have been over this and over this. 177 Comanches already passed that resolution, and that was -- and this resolution was reaffirming. MR. NARCOMEY: There was an article in the paper, Lawton Constitution, about the blankets. MR. TOM NARCOMEY: I want to clarify the ones that the newspaper, I think it's the last page there -¥ MS. ISAAC: Oral history calls the tribe savages, too, and that's not fact. We were a people that fought for our lives. MR. TIPPECONNIE: But the fact is, people used that crazy term. MS. ISAAC: They're still using it. MR. TIPPECONNIE: That they do, correct. MR. TOM NARCOMEY: In the newspaper I had in here on Page 17 about the economic part -¥ okay, there it is, on Number 3. I put in there we need a detailed record of the profit and loss statements of all businesses created and jobs created by the economic department during the past four-and-a-half years. This does not include the funeral home, waterpark, or the janitorial service which was created before the economic department existed. So this report should be presented at the next CBC meeting or at the annual meeting on April 16th, 2010. So I don't guess that report's going to be presented, so I'll present it based on the economics of the report. The last annual report, and I think the newspaper said they generated 2 1/2 million payroll, and I want to clarify that. I also want to correct Mr. Henson about the confusion about the economic department. They do Comanche. Right here it is, another report. They do Comanche as Comanche Enterprise, Ltd. And then you have the other one, they call themselves the Comanche Enterprises, that's the contracting. So when we separate them, I just call that one economic department and the other one section 8(a). That's -- that way make it clear that we're talking about economic department, not the 8(a) with the contracts with the government, the shell corporation. Okay. Now on the -- okay, the four -- let me see. Oh, the three companies not created would still exist even if we didn't have the economic department. Those are the funeral home, 11; Clean Sweep, eight; waterpark, 100. So that's 119 jobs these companies created. 119. Now, the more companies the economic department created was the signs, Quick Stop -- signs 2; Quick Stop 4; driving range 2, golf driving range; and the Nations of Fun, 25. So it has 33 jobs there. So 33 and 119 come up to 152, and the report said they created 160. So that's eight jobs that I couldn't find, so I figured, well, that's their staff. And sure enough, I have seven here, so I'm missing -- like Shumate, he's advertising manager. So we're using the budget to create jobs, including those in this report. I don't think they should include it. So they created 33 jobs, but I have a question on the Nations of Fun. I think that's kind of like seasonal, like the waterpark. They stay open. I'm not economic development. But, you know, if it's -- you have to give them time to be profitable. But you might have to cut down on expenses, but open it up, you know, part-time. Or whatever it takes. And I don't think they're taking the cost of the building into the expense either when they do the report. So what I'm saying is I think even at 33 jobs, it's pretty inflated. And I think we have a loss, but we need to get those four businesses that they've created, the driving range, Quick Stop and signs, Nations of Fun. Say what the actual profit and loss is. And if we're carrying a loss year after year after year, then we need to do something. So that's what I'm trying to present, you know, true fact based on their own report. MR. NELSON: Gabby, I got a question for you, sir. So what are you saying, it's a job placement program? MR. TOM NARCOMEY: Yeah, because we've got eight people that they're counting on their budget, their own staff. They say they created their own jobs. That's what it says. I don't think it's -- I guess the people vote on the budget, but they created their jobs. MR. NELSON: Can we reword that? Can we reword that on the budget then as a job placement program? MR. TOM NARCOMEY: I don't know. The only thing I can say on that budget is I say take 400,000 out of economic, put it in a planning department. MR. BURGESS: The job placement program is our WIA workforce program. MR. TOM NARCOMEY: They could still do economic proposals like the construction company or even a home healthcare center which brings in money. That's economics. I just wanted to clarify that so the CBC would know. Because I didn't realize it until I got this report and really analyzed what the economic department actually did. And we need to determine if that's a loss to make any changes on the staff or the board. I'd like to see the exact figures on there, because we spent 4 1/2 million so far. MS. ISAAC: How can one man get all this issue accomplished and seven people can't? MR. BURGESS: One man can get -¥ MS. ISAAC: All these facts and figures and check all this down and seven of y'all can't. MR. BURGESS: Well, I think that's an unfair question, actually. MR. HENSON: They produce a report every month that's open to everybody. Anybody who wants to see it, it's got the economic values on it, it's got the money values on it, it's got the jobs created. They have an open meeting every month. Everybody's welcome to it. It's not a closed meeting. MS. ISAAC: I understand that, but the facts that they present aren't really facts. If our tribe is helping them with their finances, they're not actually doing -- they're not making anything. MR. HENSON: Let me put it this way. This CBC had nothing to do with making the economic development over there. It was made back in the past and it was made to create jobs for the Comanches. That's what it was -- that's what it was designed to do. Okay? It wasn't designed at that time to bring money back to the tribe, but it is supposed to in the future, after these businesses start getting off their feet. Okay. Anybody in the Comanche of owning a Comanche or anything will tell you that it takes three to five years to get that Comanche off the ground. MS. ISAAC: We all know, we have all been told over and over, but keep asking for more funding, but it's not always the Comanches that are employed, and it's not always -- and we know who all is in these positions. We can see who is working there, we can see who is not working, but they're employed there. I mean, it's just simple. MR. HENSON: I would suggest one thing. If y'all want any more information out of this, they publish these meetings all the time, they're open meetings. You're most welcome to go to them. And the final thing is, the tribal council votes on the budget. You have the right to say whatever you want to on that budget when it comes up. So you need to -- if you're going to say something about it, you need to go and check that information out, see if everything's right or everything's wrong on it, and then vote on it on the budget. MR. BURGESS: Clyde? MR. NARCOMEY: One quick comment on that economic development. We had a meeting, oh, probably about five or six months ago with the director of economic development, and I think the chairman asked her a question, how long will it be before you'll be able to stand on your own two feet and won't borrow money from the tribe. She thought for maybe 30, 40 seconds, a minute, and she said, oh, probably another five years. So there we go, another 5 million out the damn window, which could be going to our rest home. MR. BURGESS: Beverly, coming on board in mid '09, almost the end of our fiscal year, we were funding them at about roughly 1.1 million, maybe a little more. That was '09. In 2010, we took their funding down from 1.1 million to $800,000. So in 2011, it was down -- we're down to now where we're going to be funding them for the upcoming year at 700,000, for 2012. So we have been reducing their budget because since 2005, they should have been standing on their feet by now. And we don't think it's logical. I -¥ okay. Me, I don't think it's logical to fund them another five years at this million dollars a year. So the responsibility now is on this economic development group to start making a profit and paying its own way with all of their little businesses. It's a small Comanche incubator that should have been doing that, but they expanded -- in my estimation, just me, they expanded too far too fast. They didn't have their core businesses get self-developed and fully on its feet. So now they know that we're serious here, we're taking them down, reducing their budget, they have to start living on their income. And when you can't live on the income you make as a Comanche, you soon fold the doors. Sadly to say, they need to make an income. They've got people depending on them for jobs. That's been their priority and whatever paperwork developed them, but we don't see that the tribe has to always keep them floating. That's what you're asking us to not do, keep them afloat. And there are other programs, yes, that could use this money, but we always feel that an investment in the economic ventures and future development is important. MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Mr. Chairman -¥ MR. BURGESS: One more comment. This is the last year that we're putting moneys into the Comanche Nation Corporation, the 8(a). They understand that this is the last year we're funding them. Next year they'll be off the budget. You won't see us putting that million dollars in Comanche Nation Enterprises. But we should put money into economic development. If we can't do that, we should put money in the bank, you know, so that the next time the economy goes south, the nation can approve of us to go and take $500,000 out to keep our employees going. And that's the problem a lot of cities, counties and even the federal government. They don't safe enough themselves and we've got to come up with that here ourselves and invest that money so it's save and then we can use it again. MR. WAUAHDOOAH: I just want to add that, Beverly, after this strategic planning situation we're going to have next week, you're going to see a philosophical change in the way the tribe does Comanche. Right now the philosophy has been to create jobs rather than to make money. What is the nature of Comanche? It's to make money. We've gone away from that, that's going to change. There's tremendous reform coming to our two holding companies that we have here. We may have to form a third one to go the right direction, but we're getting ready to do some major reform. MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: Along with the philosophy, along with that change, we're looking at structural change. Because if it was doable, it would have been done by now. It's not working the way it's set up. We have several different options how we're organized, how we're structured, how we're funded, who's funded. I haven't spoken to one person that's fully pleased with our economic development as a tribe up to this point. You're right, as leadership, we need to take a look at that. We should have acted a while ago, and it seems the excuses here, the explanations here, there's enough of that. We have got the resources, we have the assets. We need to find the right people and we need to set it up right for success. MR. NELSON: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to follow up on what you just said, Darrell. I looked on this budget that you guys sent out in the newsletter. Why are there so many categories in the economic development category? Why? Like firefighters, do they make money? I mean, why are they in that category? MR. TIPPECONNIE: That's a good question. I appreciate it. MR. BURGESS: Needless to say, it's coming out of that category. MR. NELSON: It says economic development. But anyway, guys, there is one program that did make us money. It's a federal program. Transportation made us $100,000. That says a lot. That says a lot. Of course, we came under, you know, road construction and it came back, but that should wake us up. $100,000 came back from a federal program. The other ones on Gabby's situation, I don't know, guys. I don't know, Clyde. MR. BURGESS: All right. Is Mrs. Emahoola here? Has anybody seen her? MR. TIPPECONNIE: I haven't seen her. We can move on. Ron RedElk. MR. BURGESS: Ron? MR. REDELK: Okay. First of all, gentlemen, I appreciate you updating us on your trips. I know in the past we haven't all received information when committeemen have taken trips, so I appreciate that. I don't travel, so I have to rely on information that you share with me. We are approaching annual tribal council. And every year for a number of years, there has been much discussion about legal services. And every year, with just Hobbs, Straus, Dean, Walker, whatever our law firm is called, that's the only law firm that is at tribal council. And every year for the past four or five years, we constituents question why do we always go with this law firm? And I think it will behoove us, the committee, to send out requests for bids from other law firms. Jim, Kirke, I have high regard for your law firm. You have many resources that some law firms wouldn't have. So it's nothing -- what I'm proposing, it's nothing against our current law firm. I think that competition is the best motivator of any Comanche or entity or law firm. If we have several competing for the job, then we should get the best law firm. And we may have the best law firm. I'm not questioning that. But I think that it's our job to see that we have other interested law firms available. MR. BURGESS: Mr. RedElk, we do have an advertisement that's prepared. It will go on our Website, and we want to put it in Oklahoma City Times to reach out to other law firms. MR. HENSON: When is that going to be? MR. BURGESS: We can do it next week. But it's prepared and we need them to respond probably no later than April 5th or something. So we can put it on our Website and notify a couple of National Indian newspapers. If that's alright with you? MR. REDELK: That sounds good. That was my intent. MR. NELSON: I would hope you guys would make that legal. I mean, you're in a legal forum vote. It's good to say we're going to do it, but it should be a legal forum vote. For a request for bids. MRS. HENDRIX: That should have been done every year. MR. HENSON: We have a policy and procurement department now. We've got policies on advertisement on anything we go at. MR. TIPPECONNIE: I make a motion that we advertise for legal. MR. HENSON: I'll second that. MR. TIPPECONNIE: When you advertise it, it comes in under what criteria we announce, what we expect. MR. BURGESS: And everything we expect will be pro bono. MR. TIPPECONNIE: That's what we'd really like, pro bono, free. MR. BURGESS: Yeah, every year the tribal council selects, but we don't have to do that. We had an add last year, but it just didn't get out there in time. So we'll have to do it again. As we're doing with consultants and grant writers. We advertise every January. So everyone who applies under that advertisement, we keep them in sync. We did it again last June, July, August, something like that for grant writers and consultants. MS. HENDRIX: This is something that should have been automatic every year, and we haven't have been doing that. MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Mr. Chairman, call for the vote. MR. BURGESS: All those in favor signify by saying "aye". (Aye.) MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same sign. All those abstain, same sign. The ayes have it. Attorneys, that prior resolution that we tabled while you worked some of the language, did you complete that or shall we table it until next week? MR. KICKINGBIRD: I'd like to discuss it in executive session. I think we need to take our time about drafting the language. We ran into some constitutional problems. MR. BURGESS: We'll keep it on the table until we finish up executive session. (Open session concluded at 12:35 p.m.) * * * * * *. R E P O R T E R 'S C E R T I F I C A T E STATE OF OKLAHOMA ) ) COUNTY OF OKLAHOMA ) I, Kelly Stoabs, Certified Shorthand Reporter for the State of Oklahoma, certify that the above and foregoing meeting transcribed by me is a true and correct transcript of the meeting; that the meeting was held on February 19, 2011, in the State of Oklahoma; that I am not an attorney for nor a relative of any said parties, or otherwise interested in the event of said action. IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set hereunto set my hand and seal of office on this the 5th day of March, 2011. Kelly Stoabs Certified Shorthand Reporter for the State of Oklahoma S E C R E T A R Y ' S C E R T I F I C A T E I, Robert Tippeconnie, Secretary¥ Treasurer of Comanche Nation Comanche Committee, certify that the above is a true and correct transcript of a meeting of CBC Members held at 10:14 a.m. on March 5, 2011, and that the meeting was duly called and held in all respects in accordance with the charters and bylaws of the Comanche Nation and that a quorum was present. I further certify that the votes and resolutions of the CBC Members of Comanche Nation at the meeting are operative and in full force and effect and have not been annulled or modified by any vote or resolution passed or adopted by the CBC since that meeting. Signed:_________________________ Date:____________ Robert Tippeconnie Secretary-Treasurer