1 1 2 3 4 5 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS OF THE 6 COMANCHE BUSINESS COMMITTEE 7 MONTHLY MEETING 8 DECEMBER 4, 2010, 10:06 A.M. 9 COMANCHE NATION COMPLEX 10 LAWTON, OKLAHOMA 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 ________________________________________________ 22 REPORTED BY: KELLY STOABS, CSR DODSON COURT REPORTING & LEGAL VIDEO 23 435 NORTH WALKER AVENUE, SUITE 102 OKLAHOMA CITY, OK 73102 24 405/235-1828 OFFICE ~ 405/235-1266 FAX 877/681-2119 TOLL FREE 25 dcri@coxinet.net ~ www.dodsonreporting.net 2 1 A P P E A R A N C E S 2 3 COMANCHE NATION BUSINESS COMMITTEE MEMBERS: 4 Michael Burgess, Chairman Richard "Bunky" Henson, Vice-Chairman 5 Robert Tippeconnie, Secretary-Treasurer Ronald Red Elk, Committeeman #1 6 Mark Wauahdooah, Committeeman #2 Darrell Kosechequetah, Committeeman #3 7 Clyde R. Narcomey, Committeeman #4 8 9 LEGAL COUNSEL: 10 William Norman, James Burson Hobbs, Straus, Dean & Walker 11 12 13 * * * * * * 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 INDEX OF PROCEEDINGS 2 PAGE 3 Meeting called to order at 10:06 a.m. 5 4 Roll Call. 5 5 Invocation. 6 6 Motion passed to approve minutes of 7 October 18, 2010. 7 Motion passed to not approve 8 8 Resolution # 143-10 Connahvichnah Land Lease. 9 Motion passed to approve Resolution 8 10 # 144-10 Dorcas Powhoneat Allotment No. 841 Land Acquisition. 11 Motion passed to approve Resolution 13 12 # 165-10 TERO Ordinance 2010. 13 Working session to discuss TERO 15 scheduled for January 19, 2010 at 14 2:00 p.m. 15 Motion passed to approve Resolution 16 # 172-10 Enrollment List No. 849. 16 Motion passed to approve Resolution 17 17 # 173-10 Enrollment List No. 850-10. 18 Motion passed to approve Resolution 21 # 174-10 Social Services Contract 19 Extension PL 93-638. 20 Motion passed to approve Resolution 22 # 175-10 HIP Amendment to Resolution 21 # 166-10. 22 Motion passed to approve Resolution 22 # 176-10 JPT Amendment to Resolution 23 # 169-10. 24 Motion passed to approve Resolution 25 # 177-10 ACS Mini Grant. 25 4 1 INDEX OF PROCEEDINGS (continued) 2 PAGE 3 Motion passed to approve Resolution 32 # 178-10 Amendment to Resolution # 4 134-10. 5 Motion passed to approve Resolution 33 # 179-10 Donna Kawaykla Land 6 Acquisition. 7 Motion passed to approve Resolution 33 # 180-10 Denise Kawaykla Land 8 Acquisition. 9 Motion passed to approve Resolution 43 # 181-10 Faith Lopez Land 10 Acquisition. 11 Motion passed to approve Resolution 43 # 182-10 Raymond Lopez Land 12 Acquisition. 13 Motion passed to approve Resolution 43 # 183-10 Janet Lopez Land 14 Acquisition. 15 Motion passed to approve donations 47 to churches. 16 Motion passed for the chairman to 61 17 travel to presidential summit in Washington, D.C. 18 Motion passed for Mr. Tippeconnie to 61 19 travel to Washington, D.C. to Tribal Interior Budget Council. 20 Motion passed for Mr. Narcomey to 72 21 travel to NIGC meeting. 22 Motion passed reaffirming William 77 Owens as the acting TA with all 23 authority. 24 Motion passed to change blood 87 quantum and name from 018211. 25 5 1 INDEX OF PROCEEDINGS (continued) 2 PAGE 3 Motion passed to purchase property 88 from Mrs. Sharon Riddles Kindred. 4 Motion passed to approve Resolution 90 5 # 184-10 Law Enforcement Overtime/Holiday Pay Policy. 6 Resolution presented by Eleanor 94 7 McDaniel. 8 Ms. Narcomey - Cemetery. 111 9 Open session concluded at 1:07 p.m. 139 10 Reporter's Certificate. 140 11 Secretary's Certificate. 141 12 13 14 * * * * * * 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 6 1 (Meeting called to order at 2 10:06 a.m.) 3 MR. BURGESS: We'll call the meeting 4 to order. Mr. Tippeconnie, would you do roll 5 call, please? 6 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Michael Burgess? 7 MR. BURGESS: Here. 8 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Richard Henson? 9 MR. HENSON: Here. 10 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Robert Tippeconnie, 11 here. Ronald RedElk? 12 MR. REDELK: Here. 13 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Mark Wauahdooah? 14 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Here. 15 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Darrell 16 Kosechequetah? 17 MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: Here. 18 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Clyde Narcomey? 19 MR. NARCOMEY: Here. 20 MR. TIPPECONNIE: All present, 21 Mr. Chairman. 22 MR. BURGESS: Thank you. Mark, would 23 you give us an invocation, please? 24 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: (Invocation.) 25 MR. BURGESS: Fellas, y'all want to 7 1 review the minutes, any corrections? 2 MR. NARCOMEY: Mr. Chairman, I'd like 3 to say something. It will be about a minute, 4 maybe 30 seconds. I wish there were more people 5 here. I hope everybody had a good Thanksgiving, 6 and I'd like to wish everybody a Merry Christmas 7 and happy New Year. That's coming from the 8 Narcomey family: Clyde, Claudette, and my 9 daughter, my mother. I hope everybody has a nice 10 Christmas and a happy New Year. 11 MR. BURGESS: And grandson. 12 MR. NARCOMEY: And my grandson. 13 There you go. 14 MR. BURGESS: Y'all need more time to 15 review the minutes, fellas? 16 MR. HENSON: I make a motion to 17 approve. 18 MR. BURGESS: Motion made by 19 Mr. Henson to approve the minutes. Do we have a 20 second? 21 MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: Second the 22 motion. 23 MR. BURGESS: Second by Mr. Darrell 24 Kosechequetah. All those in favor signify by 25 saying "aye". 8 1 (Aye.) 2 MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same 3 sign. All those abstain, same sign. The ayes 4 have it. 5 The first item on our agenda is 6 Section V will be our resolutions. Item Number 7 143-10 is a resolution on the Connahvichnah land 8 lease. It had been tabled since October. 9 MR. HENSON: I'll make the motion to 10 disapprove. 11 MR. BURGESS: Motion made by 12 Mr. Henson to not approve the requested rental of 13 lands. Do we have a second? 14 MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: Yes, second. 15 MR. BURGESS: Second by Mr. Darrell 16 Kosechequetah. All those in favor signify by 17 saying "aye". 18 (Aye.) 19 MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same 20 sign. All those abstain, same sign. The ayes 21 have it. 22 Resolution Number 144-10. This is 23 Dorcas Powhoneat. I think I said that right. If 24 I didn't, forgive me. Allotment Number 841, it's 25 been tabled. Bob, I'll turn it over to you. Is 9 1 there anything new or anything we have not 2 discussed on things? 3 MR. TIPPECONNIE: This is trust land, 4 and it's in the name of Mr. Wendell Gooday. It's 5 south of the cemetery that's west of Apache, just 6 south of that tract. You can see it's 27, it's 7 not the full tract. You can see the description 8 here that breaks it down, and it comes to 27.50 9 acres, more or less. He's brought this before us 10 before so. This is not the first time, but he's 11 asked us to consider it again. 12 MR. BURGESS: Information, guys. The 13 land lies directly across the road from the Cache 14 Creek Cemetery west of Apache. It's about from 15 that roadway running back east to the exception 16 line to the next county line, gravel road there. 17 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Chairman 18 Burgess, can you give a reason why this 19 Connahvichnah that was disapproved in this first 20 one? Can you give a reason? 21 MR. BURGESS: The tribe has separated 22 out smoke shops, and that's one of the sites the 23 tribe is going to put a smoke shop on there 24 itself. Any more questions on Item 144-10 that 25 Mr. Gooday is requesting? 10 1 MR. TIPPECONNIE: It is divided. 2 Some of these lands sometimes are undivided. 3 MR. HENSON: This is only for the 4 authorization of consideration? 5 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yes. It doesn't 6 say for sure we'll go into negotiation. If we're 7 interested, the appraisal would be asked for. 8 Once the individual receives the appraisal, then 9 the negotiation between Mr. Gooday and the 10 Comanche Nation. 11 MR. WHITEWOLF: What purpose would 12 you buy the land for? 13 MR. BURGESS: Number one is housing. 14 Number two is to maintain the water rights. 15 MR. HENSON: I make the motion to 16 approve for consideration. 17 MR. BURGESS: Motion to approve by 18 Mr. Henson for consideration. 19 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Mr. Chairman, I 20 second that motion. 21 MR. BURGESS: Second by Mr. Mark 22 Wauahdooah. 23 MR. NARCOMEY: What are we going to 24 do with that land there? 25 MR. BURGESS: It would be housing. 11 1 For your information, sometime in the end of 2 January we'll have a joint working session with 3 the housing board of commissioners and their 4 executive director and their staff, if necessary, 5 to discuss future plans for housing and 6 development of homes. 7 MR. NARCOMEY: You can't put too many 8 homes on 27 acres. 9 MR. BURGESS: That's an acre and a 10 quarter each. So we'd put about 22 homes there, 11 maybe, or put them on a joint sewage system, 12 because you need an acre and a quarter for the 13 house site and the sewer. 14 MR. NARCOMEY: I thought we were 15 looking at land south of Apache for homes, the one 16 I talked to you about. 17 MR. BURGESS: There's a site there, 18 too. 19 MR. NARCOMEY: Are you going to bring 20 that up today? 21 MR. BURGESS: That's on the agenda. 22 This one is just to enter negotiations. We just 23 need to know what the appraisal price is so we can 24 say yes or no. It's good farmland right now. 25 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Chairman, what 12 1 is that going to cost? 2 MR. BURGESS: Let's say it's $1,100 3 an acre for purchase, which has been the mid 4 range. 5 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: That's the BIA. 6 MR. BURGESS: After the appraisal, it 7 would be somewhere between 1,100 to $1,200 per 8 acre. 9 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Could you tell 10 me where it's located again? 11 MR. BURGESS: You know where the 12 cemetery is west of Apache, Cache Creek Cemetery? 13 No? Do you know where Attocknie Estates is? It's 14 about a half mile down the road at the next 15 section line, west. 16 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Is it very far 17 from Apache, because I can't -- 18 MR. BURGESS: No, about 19 two-and-a-half miles and a half mile south, or a 20 mile south. I don't know, Wahnee, you lived in 21 that area. Is that about right, two-and-a-half 22 miles? 23 MR. WAHNEE: Actually, I'm not 24 familiar with that area. 25 MRS. GALLEGOS: It's actually three 13 1 miles. Three miles west, a mile south. 2 MR. BURGESS: I was close. 3 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Mr. Chairman, I call 4 for the vote. 5 MR. BURGESS: All those in favor 6 signify by saying "aye". 7 (Aye.) 8 MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same 9 sign. All those abstain, same sign. 10 MR. NARCOMEY: Nay. 11 MR. BURGESS: The ayes have it. 12 This is, again, just negotiations. 13 The other one is 80 acres that we'll be 14 considering. 15 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Mr. Chairman? 16 So when you enter into negotiations and you want 17 to acquire it, does that come -- do y'all let us 18 know or do you just carry on that -- 19 MR. BURGESS: No, it will come back 20 here for a resolution to purchased, then. But we 21 want to know what the appraisal rate is before we 22 say yes or no. The Bureau requires a resolution 23 to say we'll enter into negotiations and 24 consideration for sale. Then they'll get the 25 appraisal done, and then the owner has the 14 1 appraisal, the Bureau notifies us. 2 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Are y'all the 3 ones that enter negotiations, this body here? 4 MR. BURGESS: We say it's our policy 5 to purchase the land at the appraisal right only. 6 So whatever the Bureau appraisal is, that's the 7 maximum we've been paying. 8 MR. TIPPECONNIE: And we can pay less 9 than that. When the appraisal comes, it comes to 10 the landowner. It doesn't come to us. So when we 11 get in a negotiated sale with the landowner, they 12 may want to tell us what that is, they may not, 13 but we exchange what we consider it to be. Like 14 he may state 1,100 an acre, 1,000 an acre. 15 MR. BURGESS: Motion passes. 16 Resolution 165-10. I think we need a 17 motion to table. 18 MR. TIPPECONNIE: I make a motion to 19 table at this time. 20 MR. NARCOMEY: I second. 21 MR. BURGESS: Motion to table by 22 Mr. Tippeconnie. Second by Mr. Narcomey. All 23 right. All those in favor signify by saying 24 "aye". 25 (Aye.) 15 1 MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same 2 sign. All those abstain, same sign. 3 We tabled it because we need to have 4 a working session with our attorneys and with our 5 staff. We're thinking January for a working 6 session to discuss the TERO. I don't have a 7 calendar of January, but if someone wants to look 8 at their calendar and propose a date, somewhere 9 between January 10th and January 20th or 21st. 10 MR. TIPPECONNIE: It should be a 11 little later, because we'll be having the budget 12 meetings in early -- 13 MR. BURGESS: The third Monday of 14 January is the 17th. Sometime in that week. 15 Attorneys, do you have a calendar available? Do 16 you have a preference for a date? 17 MR. NORMAN: We'll be available any 18 day. 19 MR. BURGESS: On the 18th, 20 gentlemen. We need a working session on our TERO 21 ordinance. 22 MR. NORMAN: Mr. Chairman, that is 23 the date of NIGC consultation at Riverwind in case 24 any of your were planning on being there. 25 MR. BURGESS: That's one day? 16 1 MR. BURSON: The 18th. Yes, one day. 2 MR. HENSON: What day is that? 3 What's happening? 4 MR. BURGESS: January 18th is the 5 NIGC consultation. 6 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Let's move it to 7 the 19th. 8 MR. BURGESS: Move it to the 19th. 9 MS. ATTOCKNIE: Wednesday, the 19th. 10 MR. BURGESS: Yes, Wednesday the 19th 11 at 2:00 p.m.? 12 MR. NORMAN: The 19th is great. 13 MR. BURGESS: Okay. So noted, 14 gentlemen. It will be at the complex. We'll try 15 to get this room. There will be about a dozen 16 people. 17 Moving onto the agenda, Resolution 18 172-10. Did I miss something? 19 MR. TIPPECONNIE: No, you didn't. 20 Some of those were previous orders because we 21 tabled them. 22 (Discussion held off record.) 23 MR. BURGESS: Resolution Number 24 172-10 is enrollment. This is a list of those 25 ineligible. They do not meet the requirements as 17 1 noted in the constitution for enrollment. 2 MR. NARCOMEY: I make a motion to 3 approve. 4 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Mr. Chairman, I 5 second that. 6 MR. BURGESS: Motion made by 7 Mr. Narcomey, Clyde Narcomey. Second by Mr. Mark 8 Wauahdooah. All those in favor signify by saying 9 "aye". 10 (Aye.) 11 MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same 12 sign. All those abstain, same sign. The ayes 13 have it. 14 Now, Resolution Number 173-10, 15 Enrollment List. This is a list of applicants. I 16 believe there's 26 new members. They're all 17 eligible for membership. 18 MR. HENSON: I make a motion to 19 approve. 20 MR. NARCOMEY: You might make a 21 motion, too, Mr. Chairman, nine of the 26, that's 22 a third, they're coming in at an eighth. If we go 23 on an eighth, we're not going to have enough per 24 cap to go around in two years. The per cap keeps 25 going down and down and down. We may end up where 18 1 we started from back in the '70s, with nothing. 2 MR. BURGESS: So noted. 3 MR. HENSON: Motion on the table. 4 MR. BURGESS: Motion to approve by 5 Mr. Henson. Looking for a second on the motion. 6 MR. TIPPECONNIE: I'll second it. 7 MR. BURGESS: Second by 8 Mr. Tippeconnie. Discussion? We had someone 9 raise their hand out there? 10 MR. TOM NARCOMEY: I have a comment 11 or suggestion on enrollment. Donna Wahnee said 12 that there were 80 people that were, I guess, 13 fraudulently or illegally taken off the roll at 14 the annual meeting. There was one person that was 15 no part Indian that was receiving a per cap. I 16 guess all of them receive per caps, I don't know, 17 but it was into the tens of thousands that we 18 haven't got the money back. So I think we need 19 some -- I talked with an attorney, one of our 20 attorneys, and he said it was a good idea to have 21 an enrollment law. 22 Like if you perjure yourself or like 23 all those federal forms you fill out. Well, you 24 know, some kind of teeth in there that makes it -- 25 that we have our own laws to enforce in case 19 1 anybody tries to get on the rolls about fraud, you 2 know. That's one of the reasons why it was put on 3 the forensic audit, proposed forensic audit, was 4 enrollment there, to try to get the money back 5 that we had paid out in per caps. But a lot of 6 people were dually enrolled and they knew it and 7 everybody knew it, that they were on the roll. 8 That's what we need, enrollment laws to make it a 9 crime or something to do something to, you know, 10 prevent that. But that's just an idea, a 11 suggestion, but the attorneys said it was fine. 12 Maybe other tribes have similar laws. 13 MR. BURGESS: That could be 14 investigated. Thank you, Thomas. 15 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I have a 16 comment. Rather than worry about the number of 17 tribal members we have enrolled, I think we need 18 to be more concerned about making money at the 19 casinos. We need to hire somebody that knows what 20 they're doing and can make money. It's been 21 stated that the Comanche Tribe is very rich. They 22 could pretty much hit the billion dollar mark if 23 we knew what we were doing. 24 MR. BURGESS: Thank you for your 25 comments. 20 1 Motion on the floor, we have a 2 second. All those in favor signify by saying 3 "aye". 4 (Aye.) 5 MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same 6 sign. All those abstain, same sign. The ayes 7 have it. 8 MR. NARCOMEY: Mr. Chairman, let me 9 make one more comment about this enrollment. 10 There is an investigation right now going on. 11 It's just -- it's not been completed yet, but 12 there's one of our Comanche members that forged 13 some papers for three of her grandkids to get on. 14 I'm not mentioning no names. The law enforcement 15 know who they are, who the person is. So we are 16 looking at things like that. There is a case 17 pending right now for forging papers to receive 18 benefits for the grandkids. 19 MR. BURGESS: Yes. Thank you. 20 MS. ATTOCKNIE: The ordinances that 21 we have with the Comanche Nation are also 22 considered our laws. So with reference to what 23 Gabby was saying, all it seems to me is to put 24 more teeth into the ordinance, meaning a review of 25 the tribal enrollment ordinance and have -- put 21 1 some teeth into it with regard to some of these 2 issues that are coming up that would specifically 3 address getting that money back or doing something 4 about the investigations, et cetera. 5 MR. BURGESS: Thank you. 6 MR. TOM NARCOMEY: We have to go 7 through federal laws. If we have our own laws 8 enforced, we hit it right on the nose, protect the 9 CBC. 10 MR. BURGESS: One of the things we're 11 looking at, Thomas, is a grant that will help us 12 start developing tribal codes. Those will all be 13 encompassed in this law and order code that we're 14 looking at getting the funding to initiate. All 15 three of you have valid points. Thank you very 16 much. 17 Our next item is Resolution 174-10, 18 which is the extension of our social services 19 department contract. It's a 93-638 contract. 20 MR. HENSON: I make a motion, 21 Mr. Chairman. Let's do all three of them at the 22 same time. 23 MR. BURGESS: The first one is 24 174-10. That extends our 638 contract with social 25 services. Mr. Henson is proposing we do all three 22 1 with one motion. The second one is 175-10, which 2 is our home improvement program, also a 638 3 program. And then the third one is , which is the 4 jobs placement training program, another 638 with 5 the BIA. So each of those are extensions of our 6 current contract. 7 MR. TIPPECONNIE: What you'll see 8 some, like the 166-10 there, there were some 9 errors in the date. That's why there's an 10 amendment. These are amended to put correct 11 dates. 12 MR. BURGESS: Okay. 13 MR. NARCOMEY: What about the 14 177-10? 15 MR. HENSON: That's a grant. 16 MR. BURGESS: Different department, 17 federal department. 18 MR. HENSON: So, Clyde, you can make 19 your motion. 20 MR. NARCOMEY: Yeah, I'll make a 21 motion to approve all three. 22 MR. HENSON: I second that. 23 MR. BURGESS: Motion's been made by 24 Narcomey, second by Mr. Henson. What had 25 happened, fellows, is the Bureau requested a 23 1 resolution to extend those contracts three months 2 because the federal government is continuing 3 resolutions; therefore, they wanted a resolutions 4 meeting, the federal government's continuing 5 resolutions. Now these are new contracts that 6 they wish, but we need to approve to go into place 7 for the next three years. 8 So the motion's made by Mr. Narcomey, 9 seconded by Mr. Henson. All those in favor 10 signify by saying "aye". 11 (Aye.) 12 MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same 13 sign. All those abstain, same sign. The ayes 14 have it. All three passed. 15 MRS. GALLEGOS: Just a point of 16 clarification. These three resolutions that you 17 just passed, they're 638-funded programs. So when 18 someone says that we're in jeopardy, we're out of 19 compliance or whatever and we don't have 638 20 funding, that's incorrect, because those three 21 programs have 638 monies? 22 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yes. 23 MR. BURGESS: And our law enforcement 24 had their 638 monies approved last time around. 25 They got all their paperwork in right on schedule 24 1 with the Bureau, so law enforcement is approved, 2 as well. 3 MRS. GALLEGOS: So that means we're 4 no longer at high risk, and that's why they're 5 approving these contracts? 6 MR. TIPPECONNIE: We're still at high 7 risk. We're about to get out of the hole, I hope, 8 because we pretty much satisfied everything. 9 We're waiting for that. Given that we're under 10 high risk, we still can have the 638 contract, but 11 we have to fund our money up front and then we're 12 reimbursed. 13 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Mr. Chairman, just 14 for a point of clarification, Congress can reduce 15 this budget, although we are approved, at any 16 time. Am I correct? 17 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Appropriations can. 18 MR. BURGESS: Appropriations can. 19 But once they approve it generally they will not 20 reduce it. 21 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: These are hard 22 times. 23 MR. BURGESS: Congress is going to 24 approve a reduction across the board in the 25 federal government by 2012 budget? 25 1 MR. TIPPECONNIE: By 5 percent is 2 stated. It hasn't been approved but it's been 3 stated by the president. 4 MR. HENSON: There's also a freeze 5 going on with all government employees. 6 MR. TIPPECONNIE: It's been stated 7 but not approved. 8 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: When the new 9 Congress comes in, sworn in in January, things 10 could change then. 11 MR. BURGESS: They could reduce it 12 even more. Hopefully listen to the people and 13 continue funding at the same level. 14 (Discussion held off record.) 15 MR. BURGESS: All right. We have 16 Resolution 177-10. This is a mini grant working 17 with our group called the Circle of Life. It's a 18 $10,000 grant primary. Funded from the Centers of 19 Disease Control in order to provide, evaluate, and 20 tailor to Comanche Nation the ACS, Circle of Life 21 Cancer Education Program for American Indians and 22 Alaska natives. Gentlemen, any questions on this? 23 MR. HENSON: Yes. I read the -- 24 that's it, right? 25 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: The grant agreement. 26 1 MR. BURGESS: Yes. 2 MR. HENSON: I read that grant 3 agreement, and there's a problem that I feel like 4 we've got, and that's the information that they're 5 going to collect. They say that they're going to 6 give it to several organizations or the 7 government, who they see fit. I don't know if 8 that's something -- 9 MR. BURGESS: Dr. Eschiti, would you 10 come forward and respond? 11 DR. ESCHITI: This agreement, too, 12 your legal can look at, and if there's anything 13 they disagree with, they can change it. And I 14 e-mailed an electronic copy to Mr. Burgess, 15 Chairman Burgess, so any of it can be changed, 16 because they're not used to working with tribes. 17 But the main information that we'll be collecting 18 is basically how these cancer education workshops 19 are received by the people, how the Comanche 20 Nation and the American Cancer Society would have 21 that information, and then the primary funder, the 22 Centers of Disease Control. 23 MR. HENSON: Correct me if I'm 24 wrong. Are you saying that they're not going to 25 collect any kind of medical information? 27 1 DR. ESCHITI: No, none of it is 2 sensitive information. It's basically did you 3 understand what this meant, was this culturally 4 appropriate, those kinds of things. 5 MR. HENSON: Okay. I guess I 6 understood it wrong. I understood that they were 7 going to pass the information on to other 8 agencies. 9 DR. ESCHITI: Just themselves and the 10 American Cancer Society and the Centers for 11 Disease Control. And if you want your legal 12 department to actually put that specific 13 information in there, go right ahead, because I 14 see your point. 15 MS. ATTOCKNIE: Because one of the 16 places it doesn't say it's going to is here nor 17 for us -- one of the places that needs to be 18 stated is that any of this information that's 19 gathered needs to come back to the tribe 20 specifically in order for us to be able to use 21 that information in any of the grants that we 22 apply for that we have to have the supplemental or 23 backup documentation or demographics, et cetera. 24 MR. HENSON: I've got no problem with 25 this project. The only probably I have with it is 28 1 that in a lot of these grants that has been taking 2 place in the past, they take that information from 3 the American Indian people and they utilize that 4 throughout the United States. And some of that 5 shouldn't be used at all, but they have been doing 6 it. Now, to correct something like this, I think 7 our attorneys can go through this and say that 8 none of this information can be released without 9 the consent of the CBC, or even the general 10 council. 11 MR. BURGESS: Just a point of 12 information, and Dr. Eschiti, you might verify 13 this. The hospital, the -- what is his name -- 14 Dr. Rhodes. He does a lot of research, but he'll 15 come back to the health board and request each 16 tribe to approve his research or dissemination of 17 that. That's just -- for all our folks here, 18 that's normal course of business that they would 19 do that. 20 DR. ESCHITI: Through this grant 21 there is a Circle of Life educator, Stacey 22 Sanford, a Comanche Nation member, who will be 23 paid through this grant. She's the manager, I'm 24 just a coordinator. She would hire an assistant 25 educator to work with Ms. Attocknie. 29 1 MR. HENSON: I've got no problem with 2 it, I think it's a good grant. It's just the 3 dissemination of the information. 4 MR. BURGESS: Did you send one 5 electronically? 6 DR. ESCHITI: Yes, but I can e-mail 7 it again. 8 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Again, really this 9 is data on educational matters. 10 DR. ESCHITI: Right. It's not 11 nothing anything about asking if they had cancer 12 or their health or their age, any of that. 13 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Just providing 14 educational information about -- 15 DR. ESCHITI: Right. This isn't 16 research. It's called a field test. There are 17 several tribes throughout the country that are 18 participating so that the American Cancer Society 19 can make this available to various tribes 20 throughout the country. They're having a Website 21 that they're developing so the tribes can go there 22 and tailor information themselves. But we're 23 providing any information how to tailor, how to go 24 through this process. 25 MS. ATTOCKNIE: It's not only 30 1 education, but it's an awareness. 2 MR. TIPPECONNIE: I'm sure if you're 3 educating, you're giving awareness. 4 MR. BURGESS: Gentlemen, pending 5 that, any other technical changes, if you want to 6 give preliminary approval or wait until next 7 month. Are we under a time frame, Dr. Eschiti? 8 Is there any -- 9 DR. ESCHITI: Stacey would like to 10 start working, but if you need to wait to give a 11 final approval before she starts working -- 12 MR. HENSON: I'll make a motion to 13 approve pending the approval of any information 14 disseminated by the CBC. 15 MR. BURGESS: That correction. 16 MS. ATTOCKNIE: Stacey's only going 17 to be working for 10,000? 18 MR. BURGESS: No, I think she's got 19 more than that going on. 20 DR. ESCHITI: For this particular 21 grant is $10,000, because it's only for six 22 months. 23 MR. NORMAN: Do you want to just do 24 the approval subject to review and appropriate 25 provisioning by legal to protect the interest and 31 1 that is of members. 2 MR. HENSON: On dissemination of 3 information. 4 MR. BURGESS: She's got it. 5 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Mr. Chairman, I call 6 for the vote. 7 MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: Second. 8 MR. BURGESS: Darrell Kosechequetah 9 is making a second here. Mr. Henson has made the 10 motion, Darrell has seconded. All those in favor 11 signify by saying "aye". 12 (Aye.) 13 MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same 14 sign. All those abstain, same sign. The ayes 15 have it. 16 MS. SANFORD: Mr. Chairman, do you 17 think I can get a time limit on how long that's 18 going to take for them to do that? 19 MR. BURGESS: It's approved pending 20 the corrections and changes. 21 MS. SANFORD: So do I check back with 22 you -- 23 MR. BURGESS: If you want a corrected 24 copy, give us 10 days. 25 MR. NORMAN: Yes. Hopefully we'll 32 1 get it done before then. 2 MR. BURGESS: We'll get that copy to 3 you electronically because they'll get that 4 started. 5 MS. ATTOCKNIE: As of now you can 6 start working. You just can't give out the 7 information. 8 MR. BURGESS: Gentlemen, moving over 9 to the next page, Resolution Number 178-10. This 10 amends Resolution Number 134-10. Do you want to 11 explain that, Bob? 12 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Again, this changes 13 the dates, makes the correct dates. 14 MR. NARCOMEY: I make a motion to 15 approve, Mr. Chairman. 16 MR. BURGESS: Just a technical move 17 here. 18 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yes, just to change 19 the date. 20 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: I second the motion, 21 Mr. Chairman. 22 MR. BURGESS: Motion by Mr. Narcomey 23 and second by Mr. Wauahdooah. All those in favor 24 signify by saying "aye". 25 (Aye.) 33 1 MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same 2 sign. All those abstain, same sign. 3 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Now we're into our 4 motions. Wait, wait. We have some more 5 resolutions. I apologize. We didn't have the 6 time to give them to you all so we'll have to read 7 these, 179. Do you want to read that? 8 MR. BURGESS: This is Resolution 9 Number 179-10. This is in reference to the 10 Honenaker land west of Snyder. The individual 11 name is Donna Kawaykla. 12 I'm going to go to the third 13 whereas. The CBC realizes the responsibility to 14 continuously pursue opportunities to increase the 15 land base of the Comanche Nation and the 16 importance of purchasing individually-owned trust 17 lands in order to ensure that tribal lands 18 maintain trust status; and 19 Whereas, the CBC authorizes the 20 purchase for consideration in the amount of 21 BIA-appraisal value or higher a negotiated sale 22 from Ms. Donna Kawaykla, the property described as 23 follows: The allotment name is Honenaker, the 24 allotment number is 1619. It's an undivided 25 interest in a tract of land located in the 34 1 northeast quarter of the northeast quarter of 2 section 34, Township 03 North, Range 17 west, at 3 the Indian Meridian containing 20 acres more or 4 less. 5 Be it further resolved that the CBC 6 as a whole is authorized to act on behalf of the 7 Comanche Nation to direct and oversee the purchase 8 of the property described above in coordination 9 with the BIA and Ms. Donna Kawaykla. 10 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Mr. Chairman, I have 11 a question. Is this something we've dealt with in 12 the past? Anyone? 13 MR. TIPPECONNIE: We visited on that 14 which was the estate of Marie. This is 160 15 undivided tract, so these are others now willing 16 to come forward and say that they would like to be 17 included. 18 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: How many acres now? 19 MR. TIPPECONNIE: The first was 40, 20 this is 20. This is specific to 20. We'll have 21 another one coming up, her sister who also wants 22 to offer her 20, so that's another 40. So that 23 makes 80. And then we'll have three others 24 pending following this with six acres each in this 25 same tract wanting to be considered for negotiated 35 1 sale as well. 2 MR. NARCOMEY: Where is this land 3 located? 4 MR. TIPPECONNIE: This land is -- 5 MR. BURGESS: West of Mountain Park 6 about a mile. 7 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: What type of land is 8 it? 9 MR. BURGESS: It's grazing, farmland. 10 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: There's no 11 mountains, no hills? 12 MR. TIPPECONNIE: It's not too far 13 from the backdrop of the mountains that are above 14 Mountain Home there. 15 MR. BURGESS: Do you know where 16 Mountain Park is? It's due west of Mountain 17 Park. Half a mile south and a mile or a mile- 18 and-a-half due west. 19 MR. WHITEWOLF: Is it accessible? 20 MR. BURGESS: Very. Currently leased 21 out as grazing? 22 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yes. 23 MR. WHITEWOLF: Which way from the 24 lake is it? 25 MR. BURGESS: South and west from 36 1 Lake Steed, Tom Steed. 2 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Why are we 3 purchasing -- was the land going to be sold to 4 somebody else that would have took it out of trust 5 status? Why is the property being sold? 6 MR. BURGESS: Yes. It would have 7 been taken out of trust status, but we were asking 8 for a portion of it. Then it was all undivided. 9 Unknown to the family, it was all undivided. 10 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Why were they 11 selling it? 12 MR. BURGESS: Offer was made. We 13 were looking for land. We wanted 25 acres. 14 There's how many individuals, are there? 15 MR. TIPPECONNIE: There's eight or 16 nine. 17 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: And what are 18 we going to do with the property? 19 MR. BURGESS: We have designs on 40 20 acres to put in a smoke shop and perhaps a small 21 casino. That area of Mountain Park, Synder, it's 22 become a real, what would you say, tourist area 23 now. A lot of people from the Lawton and Altus 24 area are using that lake quite often. Mountain 25 Park is a little like Medicine Park now, becoming 37 1 a tourist area. And then with -- what is that 2 resort over there? Quartz Mountain Resort. It's 3 got all kinds of activities, and a lot of people 4 are participating in those kind of activities out 5 there. 6 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Is there a 7 time line on when y'all would put a smoke shop or 8 whatever there? 9 MR. BURGESS: If we can get it done 10 this side of six months, that's what we're going 11 to do. 12 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Are you just 13 going to put smoke shops on it? Or what else is 14 this going to be for? 15 MR. BURGESS: We're looking at 16 putting a casino on it. If we can put housing out 17 there later on, we will. There's a lot of folks 18 looking for homes. 19 MS. ATTOCKNIE: It's an extension of 20 our land base in order to be able to get more 21 economic development situations started in that 22 western part of our tribal jurisdictional service 23 area. 24 MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: When you come out 25 of Altus, you'll see a big billboard inviting them 38 1 to Fort Sill Apache Casino. So they'd have to 2 pass our machines to come this way, but they do 3 pull that way. Plus, we test it out with a 4 smaller type deal, test the market. Don't just 5 set up shop, you know, put a lot of money into it. 6 MR. BURGESS: A small event to see 7 how it goes. Yes, Barbara, then we're going to 8 move on. 9 MS. GOODIN: What about the fact that 10 it is an undivided interest? 11 MR. TIPPECONNIE: That's why it's 12 smart. See, we're already in process on 40 13 acres. We have some more coming up here. It will 14 be another 40, plus another 36. We're almost 15 getting the whole tract. 16 MS. GOODIN: That's your whole 17 purpose, is to end up with the whole tract? 18 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yes. They have to 19 be willing sellers. So when they come forward 20 willingly, then we can consider it. 21 MR. BURGESS: Mr. Tahkopfer, and then 22 we'll move on. 23 MR. TAHKOPFER: What's the location 24 of that again? 25 MR. BURGESS: Northeast, northeast 39 1 quarter, Section 34, Township 03, Range 17 west. 2 It's somewhere three to five miles due east of the 3 river, Karl. 4 MR. ATTOCKNIE: What was the range? 5 3? 6 MR. BURGESS: 17 west. 7 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Township is 3 8 north. 9 MR. REDELK: Robert, does this 10 additional acreage clear up the idea of exactly 11 where we're buying? Because I did have an issue 12 with that fact that it was undivided and there 13 were other owners of that tract. We need to make 14 sure that we get our location established before 15 purchase. 16 MR. TIPPECONNIE: What happens, now 17 that we have 40 acres, this is 160. So if we 18 gain, the Comanche Nation gains 51 percent of the 19 ownership, we can get it partitioned. So you can 20 see we're getting the 80, and then we're going to 21 have 36 added here coming up if we approve it. So 22 we're going to have over that percentage. What 23 will likely happen is the remaining owners will 24 probably come forward and offer theirs, because 25 they just have small acreages left. That's what's 40 1 happening here. Because there's two offering here 2 today and these two coming up resolutions, 20 and 3 20, then 3, with 6 and 6 and 6. 4 MR. WHITEWOLF: Remember, we don't 5 want no Rowell. We don't want a repeat of that. 6 MR. BURGESS: What will happen is, 7 the court in probate recognized our purchase, so 8 we've got that 40 acres. And now the other family 9 members are coming forward to sell us their 10 interest. So it's not going to be a Rowell 11 thing. It's at the appraisal rate, whatever 12 that's going to be. It's at appraisal only. And 13 if they agree to give mineral rights. 14 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Everything goes 15 through the Bureau, except for the one that we 16 brought forward that we're in the probate 17 setting. We're doing a settlement circumstance in 18 the probate through -- with the probate judge. 19 MR. BURGESS: That's through CFR as 20 well? 21 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yes. 22 MR. BURGESS: So motion, please? 23 MR. NARCOMEY: Mr. Chairman, I want 24 to make one statement before we go on with this. 25 About two years ago we went out to Snyder, west of 41 1 Snyder about a mile, that's Comanche land. We 2 went out there. I think it's when Mike first got 3 on board. There was a 7-Eleven store right 4 downtown Snyder that was open. Go in there, got 5 us a Coke on the way back. About two weeks later 6 we went back again to look at another tract. That 7 same 7-Eleven store we stopped at was closed. 8 Now, these guys can vote yes, 9 whatever they want to on that tract of land over 10 there. But me, I'm going to vote no, because I 11 don't think it's a very good place to put 12 anything. If a little convenience store can't 13 stay open in Snyder, what gives us the idea that a 14 smoke shop and casino can operate there? 15 MR. WHITEWOLF: It doesn't have the 16 volume of people. 17 MR. NARCOMEY: To me, it's just -- 18 we'll just waste the money, as usual. 19 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I agree. 20 MR. NARCOMEY: We'll go ahead and 21 vote for it, but I'm going to vote no. 22 MS. MCDANIEL: We already have land 23 in Cache that sits right on Quanah Trail, right 24 there by the Rowell smoke shop. It's Yackeyonny 25 land, just right off the highway, right there by 42 1 the trading post, the Gateway to the Wichitas. 2 Why hasn't that land been developed? Why don't 3 you put a smoke shop/casino on this? It's right 4 there. 5 MR. BURGESS: Motion? Do we have a 6 motion to acquire the Donna Kawaykla portion of 7 the Honenaker? 8 MR. TIPPECONNIE: This is before 9 negotiations. We enter into -- 10 MR. HENSON: I'll make the motion. 11 MR. BURGESS: Mr. Henson's made the 12 motion. 13 MR. HENSON: You might as well place 14 them all together, Donna and Denise and Faith. 15 MS. ATTOCKNIE: Yes, I said Denise. 16 It should be Donna. 17 MR. TIPPECONNIE: It may be, but on 18 the IM account, it's Denise. 19 MR. BURGESS: Okay. 20 THE TIPPECONNIE: We have to use the 21 name that's shown on the record. 22 MR. BURGESS: And her, Denise 23 Kawaykla as it's recorded, is an undivided 24 interest in the tract of land located in the 25 northeast quarter of the northeast quarter of 43 1 section 34, township 3 north, range 17 west, in 2 the Indian Meridian containing 20 acres more or 3 less. 4 Another member of the Honenaker is 5 Faith Lopez, also in this same tract. Hers is 6 6.66 acres, more or less. That's Resolution 7 181-10. And Resolution 182-10 is in the name of 8 Raymond Lopez, also involved in Honenaker area. 9 Again, in the same legal description, 6.66 acres 10 more or less. 11 And then the other is Resolution 12 183-10. The name is Janet Lopez in the same 13 township. Again, 6.66 acres more or less. So, 14 gentlemen, Mr. Henson has proposed to make a 15 motion to approve all five of these resolutions. 16 Do we have a second? 17 MR. REDELK: What is the total 18 acreage there? 19 MR. BURGESS: About 60 acres, 60.2 20 acres. Plus 40. That will be 100 acres. 21 MR. TIPPECONNIE: If we need to 22 partition, we have the -- if the others don't want 23 to sell. We can get the undivided divided. 24 MR. HENSON: This is just to approve 25 consideration? 44 1 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yes. 2 MR. HENSON: I might say something at 3 this point. On all this land that we're 4 purchasing, or try to purchase, we look at the 5 water rights, too, or the water that's on it. And 6 I might remind everybody that not right now, but 7 in the very near future water is going to be like 8 gold. The larger base that the Comanche Nation 9 has, the more money it's going to get from the 10 water. 11 MR. BURGESS: True. 12 MR. HENSON: That's some of the 13 reasons that we're purchasing more land and trying 14 to get more land is for future, not right now. 15 MR. NARCOMEY: Water already is like 16 gold. 17 MR. TIPPECONNIE: I agree with you. 18 MR. NARCOMEY: Karl, could you help 19 us out a little bit? Even though we're purchasing 20 the land now, how much will it cost what they're 21 talking about water, if they're going to work the 22 land? Did you tell me there was so many thousands 23 of dollars involved in it? 24 MR. TAHKOPFER: It depends on how 25 deep your water table is, how near to the surface 45 1 it is. The ground water in that area, I wouldn't 2 expect it would be more than 50 feet. 3 MR. TIPPECONNIE: It's shallow out 4 there. 5 MR. TAHKOPFER: Because you're after 6 the alluvial there. I can look that up and make 7 it more definitive. 8 MR. BURGESS: Are you able to, Karl, 9 perhaps make a run out there and do a test if you 10 have your hand tools? 11 MR. TAHKOPFER: I can do that. 12 MR. BURGESS: You can get with us and 13 we can show you on the map. I mean, just giving 14 you a township and range, I know you have maps 15 already. By next month. 16 MR. TIPPECONNIE: We also have the 17 Oklahoma Water Board and Institutes maps with the 18 aquifers of all of that. 19 MS. MCDANIEL: I have a comment. On 20 the water rights, Mr. Tippeconnie, Mr. Tahkopfer 21 presented some water codes. Have y'all passed 22 those yet? 23 MR. NARCOMEY: Yes, those were 24 passed. 25 MR. BURGESS: Yes, those were 46 1 passed. 2 MS. MCDANIEL: Because we have 600 3 million gallons coming out of our spring. Once 4 those are passed, we can file on Rural Water 5 District Number 2 for damages. I just wanted to 6 know if that was ever passed. 7 MR. TIPPECONNIE: I think even in 8 advance of that you can be looking at that as 9 individual trust owners. You know, the parties on 10 that tract. 11 MR. BURGESS: Is that what you're 12 referring to? You said "we". 13 MS. MCDANIEL: Yeah, Poafpybitty 14 family has that Davis Spring. 15 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Which is a good 16 spring. 17 MR. BURGESS: Second? 18 MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: I have a 19 comment. On considering our opportunities out 20 west, there's people that will drive 10 to 30 21 miles to go to a casino that won't drive 10 to 30 22 miles to go to a 7-Eleven. 23 MR. BURGESS: Or to Lake Steed. 24 What's happening out there, Lake Steed has become 25 the lake of choice for boaters, water skiers here 47 1 in Lawton. Because the Lake Elmer Thomas and Lake 2 Elsworth, other people are coming into those lakes 3 from the I-35 side, so local people are going out 4 to Lake Steed for fishing and boating 5 experiences. All those in favor signify by saying 6 "aye". 7 (Aye.) 8 MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same 9 sign. All those abstain, same sign. 10 MR. NARCOMEY: Nay. 11 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Nay. 12 MR. BURGESS: Two nays. 13 Moving on to our motions, please. 14 This is a motion that the Comanche Nation Indian 15 Church donations in the amount of $60,000 as 16 approved by the general council be distributed 17 equally in the amount of $2,608.70 to the attached 18 23 churches. We agreed last year to keep it at 19 this number because these are the churches that 20 service, what we understand, predominantly 21 Comanche congregation. They've been located in 22 Comanche Country when this program started. 23 MR. NARCOMEY: I've got one question 24 on three of these churches here. The Native 25 American Church, you got three of them listed. 48 1 Now, when we give these churches $2,608.70 apiece, 2 okay, now, we give them that each. Now here comes 3 February rolls around. When these Native American 4 churches want to go to Laredo, now, do we give 5 them more money? 6 MR. BURGESS: No. 7 MR. NARCOMEY: Don't give them any 8 money at all? 9 MR. BURGESS: This is what they're 10 supposed to get. 11 MR. NARCOMEY: I was going to say, 12 this should be included in their trip. 13 MR. BURGESS: It should include their 14 costs. 15 MR. NARCOMEY: If it's not included, 16 well, these other 20-something churches are 17 getting cheated out of so much money. 18 MR. BURGESS: Correct. 19 MR. NARCOMEY: So it should stay the 20 same. I make a motion to approve that. 21 MR. BURGESS: Since I've come into 22 office, it's stayed the same there, Clyde. 23 Nothing extra's been given to them. In fact, this 24 last meeting we had was funded out of my pocket, 25 not the tribe, not any other individual. 49 1 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: How does that 2 work? What churches are involved? How does the 3 money get disbursed? 4 MR. BURGESS: We have a motion to 5 approve the division, then we have a prayer 6 breakfast next Friday morning. Church leaders 7 will come in and we have breakfast with them, 8 prayer session, discussion. In fact, I forget how 9 many people attended last year, about 29 or 30. 10 That's how it's distributed to them. 11 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Do they have 12 to apply? 13 MR. BURGESS: We're not taking any 14 more applications. This is all we can do. 15 I might add here for everybody's 16 information, this motion was made at tribal 17 council some years back. The person that made 18 this motion got up and stated the tribe should 19 help these churches for their facilities, for 20 their needs of the building. Now we get the 21 requests coming in: When are we going to get 22 money for our Christmas party? When are we going 23 to get the money to buy gifts for out kids? When 24 can we get the money to -- it was supposed to be 25 for the physical building, or those needs of books 50 1 or pews. But now the churches have taken it to 2 use it for a Christmas party, buying gifts for the 3 kids or travel for their whatever. 4 Now, if the congregation wants to use 5 it that way for the whole group, fine. But are we 6 being responsible to give money to the churches to 7 buy gifts? And I had a question of me the other 8 day. Is the tribe going to do anything for 9 children for Christmas? Is the tribe going to 10 give toys and candies out to the children? We 11 don't do that. The Christmas Angel Tree that the 12 tribe gave money to, that became, I'm going to use 13 the word discombobulated. That was stopped. But 14 we do have the children's Christmas powwow that 15 goes on for all the kids that don't receive much. 16 People are invited to come over and bring their 17 children. That group does a lot of fundraising on 18 their own to bring the toys in to have a good time 19 for the kids, and it helps our children in the 20 home over here, as well as some of the parents. 21 We have a women's shelter who have little kids 22 that can't afford much. 23 So are we doing the right thing to 24 fund each church for their Christmas toys? I can 25 see repairing the roof, buying pews, buying books, 51 1 or helping the congregation do something for the 2 families. Now it's gone differently than what it 3 was intended for. 4 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Just for point of 5 information, the stenographer has this 6 information, but for the audience members, here 7 are the churches: Amos Komah Memorial Church in 8 Cache, Apache Reformed Church in Apache, Brown 9 Church in Walters, Cache Community Church of God 10 in Cache, Comanche Memorial Church here in Lawton, 11 Comanche Reformed Church here in Lawton, Deyo 12 Mission Baptist Church in Lawton, Emerson Nazarene 13 Church in Walters, First Church of the Nazarene in 14 Cache, Hunting Horse Church in Lawton, Little 15 Washita Church in Fletcher, Mount Scott Comanche 16 north of Lawton, Native American Church, Native 17 American Church, Native American Church (Eka 18 Tabe), New Beginnings Assembly of God in Cache, 19 Petarsy Indian Church in Apache here, Pete Coffey 20 Memorial Church in Cache, Post Oak Mennonite 21 Church in Indiahoma, Sherwood Tsotigh Memorial 22 Church in Cache, United Methodist Church in 23 Apache, Victory Assembly of God in Anadarko, 24 Westside Baptist Church. 25 With that said, I'm going to abstain 52 1 on voting for this. I believe the churches are 2 called by God to be self-sufficient. I think the 3 churches do a good thing, particularly for 4 funerals and so on, but it's time now in the times 5 of tough economics. Granted, the tribal council 6 voted for this. We cannot afford to be funding 7 everything. I will abstain on this vote. 8 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I'd like to 9 say something. 10 MR. BURGESS: Hang on. Sandra and 11 then Delores. 12 MRS. GALLEGOS: I had a question. 13 How many churches did you say are currently on the 14 list? 15 MR. HENSON: 23. 16 MRS. GALLEGOS: When it was 17 originally stated for Comanche churches, and I 18 think that Comanche just kind -- there was 19 originally like 15 churches. Then every time you 20 turned around, somebody else was added. And it 21 was hard to define what a Comanche church was 22 because there wasn't -- Comanche was the name of 23 the church, there was a Comanche that went there. 24 So it was kind of hard. So the list has grown 25 since then when the word got out that there was 53 1 this money. And so I kind of agree with you. 2 I feel like some of the churches -- I 3 don't want to pinpoint any of them, but, you know, 4 our congregations, we have to take care of our 5 church. I think that it showed a little bit of 6 greed on your churches part when this list kept 7 growing and growing when they found out there was 8 more money available. 9 And what it was supposed to be for 10 was like what you said, Chairman. It's the -- the 11 use has been changed. It's supposed to have been 12 to maintain the churches. Now it's gone to 13 other -- for other uses. Our church receives some 14 money for that and we try to keep it for what the 15 original purpose was, and I think that needs to be 16 reiterated to all these churches when you have 17 your breakfast, that that's what it was for, to 18 help sustain these physical churches and not for 19 parties and that type of thing. That's our, the 20 congregation's, responsibility. 21 MS. ATTOCKNIE: Before it passed and 22 that sort of adds to what Mark and Sandra are 23 saying. That if it's stipulated, again 24 specifically from the way it was presented in 25 general council, that these monies are to be 54 1 specifically used for the buildings, 2 infrastructure. 3 MR. BURGESS: We can go back and 4 visit that resolution. 5 MS. ATTOCKNIE: And then even 6 stipulate further that those monies need to be at 7 least information given back to the tribe, say, 8 the form of a financial statement saying that 9 those monies were spent for the roof, this much 10 money was spent for buying of pews, this much 11 money was spent for, what do you call it, 12 reinforcing? Wind rising? But it's for the 13 building. And then that the church still needs to 14 come back and show that that's what it was for. 15 You do it for all of the other programs that come 16 out of our 20 percent now. That you have to -- 17 those statements have to come back to the tribe 18 showing that that money was used the way it was 19 supposed to be used. 20 MR. BURGESS: Correct. Ms. Aitson, 21 you had raised your hand. 22 MS. AITSON: I agree with 23 Mr. Wauahdooah. I think that the churches should 24 be self-sufficient. You know, people should pay 25 their tithes and everything run with the members 55 1 of the church. I don't think that this money 2 should go for what you said. They're supposed to 3 keep up that church. If they love their church, 4 then take care of it. Then they are getting 5 monies to help feed at certain places. We get 6 commodity food when they fix our food and anybody 7 can fix that, you know. I just feel like it's, 8 you know, unnecessary to give it to all those like 9 that. 10 MR. BURGESS: Thank you. 11 MS. MCDANIEL: How much are you 12 giving each church? 13 MR. HENSON: 2,608.70. 14 MR. BURGESS: 2,608.73. 15 MS. MCDANIEL: You have spent 15 16 million on subcommittees every year, 15 million. 17 Now, if anything's a waste, it's those 18 subcommittees. We voted for you to get up there 19 and take a vote. If you can't do that, then you 20 don't belong there. But this toys and candy at 21 Christmas is a ministry, and you of all people 22 should understand ministry. Children out there 23 don't get gifts. If they're doing that at 24 Christmas, I would think that would be the best 25 time to do this. And if the churches want to use 56 1 the money for that, you donate it to them. You 2 don't put stipulations on what you're going to 3 donate. It's a church. They're trying to provide 4 a ministry. To me, that's -- 5 MR. BURGESS: Thank you. Motion? 6 MR. NELSON: This is a comment to 7 follow up what Mark said. In the Bible, it says 8 when do we prove God? How do we prove Him? It's 9 through a 10 percent tithe. That's how we prove 10 Him. The only form of gambling within the bible 11 is Roman soldiers throwing lots for Jesus' robe. 12 I don't know. I've made this comment to Darrell, 13 to Robert, to others on the CBC. It's almost like 14 I'm going to make a comment. Wauahdooah, I hope 15 you understand this, too. It's almost like a 16 curse. We're slapping God in the face. That is a 17 .005 of 10 percent. So it's really a comment, 18 it's a comment. 19 MR. BURGESS: Thank you for your 20 comment. 21 MR. HENSON: You know, y'all are 22 bringing up a lot of things about money going to 23 the churches and all that. If you take a look at 24 the way the Comanche Tribe has evolved in the last 25 five years, just the last five years, the Comanche 57 1 Tribe has become almost a welfare department. We 2 have people coming to us for entry fees to this, 3 uniforms, pay their rent, electricity, all that. 4 Even during the month of November when we pay out 5 all the per cap, they still come and they still do 6 all this. 7 Well, you know, this is one of the 8 same things. We got good intentions, we had good 9 intentions, but we always have people that may not 10 really be in need of it, but be in need of it, but 11 because of their life, the way they live their 12 life, they depend more on the Comanche Nation. 13 And it's become like that. 14 MS. MCDANIEL: These are churches, of 15 all things. 16 MR. BURGESS: Let him finish. 17 MR. HENSON: Anyway, what I'm saying 18 is that we have to look at a lot of requests like 19 that all the time. To me, it's -- when I was 20 growing up and probably when y'all were growing 21 up, your family, if you wanted to do something, 22 they went out and got it for you to do. If you 23 didn't have it, you couldn't do it. Well, it's 24 different now. I mean, it's completely 25 different. Now, if you play sports, everybody has 58 1 to pay for their kids to play sports. Back in the 2 old days, it wasn't that way, but you had to buy 3 your own tennis shoes, which was really rough on 4 me when I was going. But that's different. We 5 didn't have to buy our uniforms, nor did we have 6 to pay to play sports. But now it's different. 7 The Comanche Tribe itself has 8 evolved, and I was very surprised when I got on 9 the council of how many different types of 10 requests we were getting. We were kind of like 11 losing our culture from the old days and that 12 really bothered me. It still does. You know, 13 nobody depends on their own family anymore. 14 MS. MCDANIEL: Then what do we pay 15 these attorneys an exorbitant amount of money 16 for? 17 MR. BURGESS: Let him finish. 18 MR. HENSON: I'm finished. 19 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I want to make 20 a comment, a suggestion, a solution in listening 21 and seeing and hearing some of this, maybe we need 22 to do some spending reform. You know, these 23 churches do need the money for whatever reason it 24 is. Maybe it's to repair their church or maybe 25 they want to do something at Christmas for their 59 1 kids. But we might put a cap, $1,500. That would 2 save us some spending. And as far as those Native 3 American Churches go, that's the church that I 4 belong to. 5 Our things run a little bit different 6 than the wooden churches and what they do with 7 their money. We don't have a building, per se, 8 that we all meet at. And in the past when this 9 money was given, individuals, that money was put 10 together and it was divided among the individuals 11 that were going to go south. And what happened 12 last year, and I don't know about the year before, 13 is certain individuals got that money and only 14 they went and they provided their expenses. We 15 have a lot of people that belong to our church and 16 don't have a car maybe and need to ride with 17 somebody. So you might give some consideration 18 how you're going to distribute that money for the 19 Native American Churches. I know what's already 20 been voted on was done for this year, but we might 21 give some consideration to this particular thing 22 for next year to do some spending reform. Give 23 them X amount of dollars, but it's what they 24 choose to do with it. That's a donation from the 25 tribe to those churches. 60 1 MS. MCDANIEL: I have to make one 2 comment. What is the difference between buying 3 candy for children at Christmas and allowing these 4 people to spend that money to go down there and 5 buy peyote? What is the difference? 6 MR. BURGESS: What is the 7 difference? Because those churches don't buy 8 peyote. The other churches have to go down there 9 and buy it to be legal, to do it by law. 10 MS. MCDANIEL: But this money, you 11 just got through saying that you're going to allow 12 them to spend that money to pay for that trip to 13 go down to Laredo and get peyote. 14 MR. BURGESS: We're not here to get 15 into a discussion of sacrament at this time. 16 Thank you for your comments. Motion to approve? 17 MR. NARCOMEY: I make the motion to 18 approve, Mr. Chairman. 19 MS. AITSON: This is our meeting. We 20 ought to be able to say what we feel like saying 21 without being sat down. 22 MR. TIPPECONNIE: I second it. 23 MR. BURGESS: Second by 24 Mr. Tippeconnie. All those in favor signify by 25 saying "aye". 61 1 (Aye.) 2 MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same 3 sign. All those abstain, same sign. Abstain 4 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Abstain. 5 MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: When is that 6 meeting again, Chairman? 7 MR. BURGESS: The prayer breakfast is 8 next Friday, December 10th. 9 MR. TIPPECONNIE: 9:00 a.m. 10 MR. BURGESS: The next one is a 11 motion for the chairman to travel to a 12 presidential summit in Washington, D.C. The 13 second motion is a motion for Mr. Tippeconnie to 14 travel next week to Washington, D.C. to the Tribal 15 Interior Budget Council. 16 MR. WHITEWOLF: What are you going to 17 accomplish with that travel to the presidential 18 summit? 19 MR. BURGESS: I'll be representing 20 the tribe on certain issues, particularly the land 21 and water rights. I'll be representing the KCA on 22 some trust issues with the Indian BIA building in 23 Anadarko where the GSA is not wanting to recognize 24 us to help us expand that building and keep those 25 offices in there. On the other issue, the Indian 62 1 Health Board needs representation with NCAI on the 2 Indian health care issues and are urging the area 3 office in Oklahoma City to put more support into 4 our hospital, because three clinics, I should say 5 three other areas, Wewoka, Pawhuska, and 6 Claremore, within 24 months, all those will be 7 compacted out. When they compact it out, they 8 take administrative monies away from the area 9 office, which gives less support in administration 10 to this hospital here. So I'll be advocating for 11 those issues. 12 MR. HENSON: I'll make a motion to 13 approve both. 14 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Mr. Chairman, 15 are you going to pay for your travel up there 16 yourself? Is that going to come out of your 17 pocket? 18 MR. BURGESS: Motion to approve made 19 by Mr. Henson. 20 MR. NARCOMEY: Mr. Chairman, like me 21 and you talked about this trip to D.C. On that 22 13th, I think that's got to be on a Monday, right? 23 MR. BURGESS: Monday, the 13th and 24 14th, I'll be at Indian Health Board in Oklahoma 25 City on budget areas there. I'll try to fly out 63 1 on the night of the 14th and be there with the 2 subcommittees on the 15th and make presentations 3 to the president and his staff on the 16th and 4 come back on the 16th. 5 MR. NARCOMEY: On the 13th is an NIGC 6 summit? 7 MR. BURGESS: There is, as well. 8 MR. NARCOMEY: Me and you discussed, 9 either me or you to make that meeting to ask some 10 questions concerning our gaming problems. 11 MR. BURGESS: I would like to see you 12 do it. 13 MR. NARCOMEY: I just want to stay 14 that Monday and come back that Monday night. I 15 don't want to stay all week. 16 MR. BURGESS: You'll have to fly on 17 Sunday, the 15th, and come back that night, Monday 18 night on the 16th. We can set that up. We'll 19 need a motion on that. 20 MR. TIPPECONNIE: We need a separate 21 motion for that one, a separate motion for Clyde 22 to travel. 23 MR. WHITEWOLF: What are you going to 24 do, Robert, on your travel? 25 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Well, the Secretary 64 1 of Interior has a tribal budget council and he 2 listens to people that can bring forward the 3 things that Indian tribes need in their budgets, 4 federal dollar. So we sit there and discuss that 5 with the Secretary of Interior. And it's a great 6 honor to do that. But when I go there, the tribe, 7 it's no cost to the tribe. So my travel is not 8 charged to the tribe. 9 MR. WHITEWOLF: Do you have a plan? 10 Do you have documentation for all your arguments 11 or presentations? 12 MR. TIPPECONNIE: What happens 13 normally, and this year we have a bad year in the 14 sense that we have a continuing resolution 15 nationally in the federal sector, and we also have 16 an incoming House, which may change budget 17 circumstances. Okay. When we go in there, we 18 normally meet in an event with tribes. In fact, I 19 met with them a month or so ago and we try to 20 highlight the things that are of interest to the 21 western tribes, the 20-some tribes that includes 22 Kansas and Texas, as well. So we convene and we 23 listen, and then I am able to carry those things 24 forward. 25 Well, this year, because things are 65 1 all in question, we don't know how things are 2 going to work, but we're still going to be 3 discussing things with the secretary. And we have 4 some agenda items that we already have 5 established. Now, one of the things that we've 6 been working hard on is the president announces 7 he's going to adjust federal budgets because of 8 the big deficit, the big deficit the federal 9 government has. Well, this budget council has 10 been telling the Secretary and the Office of 11 Management Budget and the president not to do that 12 with tribal budgets. 13 Now, that's easy said, but we've 14 really been pressing on it. We've developed 15 criteria for the Secretary to present to ONB and 16 the president, and he's been attempting to do that 17 on our behalf. So this council is a very active 18 group of people. They have representatives from 19 all over the U.S., Indian leadership, and we speak 20 on budgets that are relative to Indian nations 21 today. As example, a strong one in our area has 22 been a JOM, believe it or not, because a lot of 23 our young people go to public schools. We think 24 Johnson-O'Malley is very important. Of course, 25 there's Indian help, but that's not Indian 66 1 interior. 2 So we look at water, we look at all 3 kinds of trust issues. We're pushing hard, as an 4 example, to get funding to do planning on water. 5 That's become a national priority now. I might 6 say we fought for that, I fought for that. You'll 7 be surprised how we're really able to address 8 critical things with the Secretary, and we do it 9 very, very strongly. 10 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Thank you, 11 Mr. Secretary/Treasurer. I'll second that motion. 12 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Could I add a third 13 motion to act on them all at once and that we 14 include Clyde? 15 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: I'll allow you to do 16 that in a second. Mr. Chairman, you'll be meeting 17 with the president, Mr. Obama? 18 MR. BURGESS: It's similar to the one 19 last year where all tribal leaders were requested 20 to come in. 21 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: You'll be with the 22 president? 23 MR. BURGESS: We don't know. 24 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: You mentioned health 25 services. You know, we have a problem here in the 67 1 Lawton, Oklahoma. In our audience today is a shop 2 steward. I don't know if he would make a comment 3 right now briefly. Would you care to, Mr. Tony 4 Resa? 5 MR. RESA: I'm the chief steward for 6 local -- my concerns -- which one of you is 7 Henson? You've attended how many health advisory 8 board meetings? 9 MR. BURGESS: I attend them. 10 MR. HENSON: He attends them -- well, 11 we both have, but he attends most of them here at 12 the hospital. 13 MR. BURGESS: And Dr. Chappabitty is 14 attending a lot. 15 MR. RESA: I'm also a nurse at the 16 hospital. I've worked there almost 28 years. 17 Since this administration has come in, that 18 facility has gone south. I'm awed that tribal 19 leaders, including you, and your predecessors do 20 not consider that facility a priority with this -- 21 in this community, Comanche Nation, Kiowa Nation, 22 Caddo, Wichita. I believe you guys, and I mean 23 you guys, you leaders, had firsthand knowledge of 24 what's happening at this facility and care to do 25 nothing or are afraid or feel like you have no 68 1 power to do something about it. I'm talking about 2 Hickory Starr, John Bear, and others. And I 3 believe that something needs to be done, because 4 that administration is affecting Comanche Nation 5 members personnel-wise. 6 MR. WHITEWOLF: It's killing us. 7 MR. RESA: That's all I have to say, 8 and I'm hoping something can be done. I'm not 9 talking about tomorrow, I'm talking about 10 yesterday. 11 MR. BURGESS: You're talking about 12 yester years. I know, I sit on the KCA and I know 13 when the problems started. Before we go to a 14 longer discussion, we have a motion and a second 15 here. And then, Karl, you had a statement on -- 16 MR. TAHKOPFER: I just wanted to ask 17 Mr. Tippeconnie here, out of all of these 18 rhetoric, this meeting you're going to attend, you 19 have so many on the budget, what do you really 20 expect to come out of that that will benefit our 21 tribe? That's all I want to ask. Will it just be 22 another whitewash and then nothing's done? 23 MR. TIPPECONNIE: It's been 24 beneficial. I'd say the Secretary of the 25 Interior, Mr. Echo Hawk, is really one that's 69 1 attempting to stand up for tribes and Indian 2 nations. And he really makes a very assertive 3 action in that respect. So when we go in there, 4 what we're doing is profiling those things that 5 are important in Indian Country. Not just here in 6 Oklahoma, but across even Alaska, Indian Country. 7 And we've been able to put priorities, establish 8 priorities and establish funding and push for 9 funding, so it has been functional. 10 The thing that we have to remember is 11 that the Congress is the one that approves 12 appropriations. So we can all push things and ask 13 for things, but it's going to come from the 14 president's request of the Congress when he has 15 the state of the State, those kind of things. So 16 there's a lot of processes that are underway. But 17 this group has been, I feel, very effective to put 18 priorities from Indian Country and get some 19 funding levels up there. 20 Now, we're at a dilemma nationally 21 because there is a big deficit. And so the whole 22 U.S. government, whoever they are, talking about 23 Indian health, everybody's impacted right now, and 24 we hope our budgets don't suffer. But everyone 25 may have to take cuts now in the federal budget. 70 1 MS. SANER: I have two questions 2 related to that. How long have you been going to 3 these, and can you give me an example of how this, 4 what this -- what you're doing has done for the 5 tribe, some specific example? Like I got money to 6 do blah, blah, blah. 7 MR. BURGESS: Your question is too -- 8 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Will you identify 9 yourself for the record? 10 MS. SANER: Yes, my name is Nelda 11 Saner. 12 MR. BURGESS: Let me respond, Nelda. 13 You need to come visit with Mr. Tippeconnie. The 14 last part of your question, because you're asking 15 for another hour of dialogue on what it's doing 16 for us. The first part of your question, it 17 benefits not only the tribe that he's involved 18 with the budgeting process, advocating for all 19 tribes and increasing budgets or maintaining at 20 least our budget, which is necessary. If we don't 21 get involved then we have no voice and no one 22 hears us. 23 Similar to what Mr. Resa is telling 24 us about the hospital. What he does not know is 25 that we're advocating for more doctors, qualified 71 1 doctors. I guess the problem is that American 2 medical schools here in America to be working for 3 our hospital. 4 Secondly, Mr. Hickory Starr might be 5 seen as the problem, because what is his title, 6 Tony? 7 MR. RESA: CEO. 8 MR. BURGESS: He's the CEO, but we 9 have no selection over him. So, in effect, you're 10 telling us to take control over something that we 11 have no control to do. Similar to some of the 12 things that go on in every government, but we're 13 trying to effect that change and make it necessary 14 by going to IHS directly, to Dr. Yvette Rubideaux, 15 and effecting that at her doorstep so it comes 16 back through the system to change. Even though 17 the rumor is he's going to retire in April, that 18 doesn't mean we'll get somebody who's more 19 qualified. But we need doctors over there who 20 will take our people and keep them in the hospital 21 to keep up the daily patient load. We need to 22 have a load of five or more. It's down to 2.7 or 23 somewhere. We've been advocating for that -- 24 that's been advocated for the last 10 years, but 25 it hasn't happened, and that was before Hickory 72 1 Starr got here. 2 Before we go any further, we have got 3 a motion on the floor and a second. Call for the 4 question. 5 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Does that include 6 Clyde's? 7 MR. HENSON: Yes. 8 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Second. 9 MR. HENSON: You need to -- 10 MR. BURGESS: Motion to include 11 Mr. Clyde Narcomey to travel to NIGC meeting. 12 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Second that. 13 MR. BURGESS: He'll travel on the 14 12th through the 13th. 15 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Call for the vote, 16 Mr. Chairman. 17 MR. BURGESS: All those in favor 18 signify by saying "aye". 19 (Aye.) 20 MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same 21 sign. All those abstain, same sign. The ayes 22 have it. 23 Clyde, come on in Monday and start 24 getting that travel set up. 25 MR. NARCOMEY: I might add that I 73 1 didn't really want to go. We tried to call the 2 new boss up there four or five different times 3 this past week. Can't get in touch with him, he 4 won't return our call. That's why I have to go. 5 If it wasn't for that -- if he got in touch with 6 us, called us back, we were going to ask him some 7 questions, have a conference call. Then I 8 wouldn't even go. So that would be out of the 9 way. 10 MRS. WHITEWOLF: Where are you going, 11 Clyde, for this meeting? 12 MR. NARCOMEY: NIGC on the 13th in 13 D.C. I've got some serious questions we need to 14 ask the boss up there about gaming. 15 MR. BURGESS: Some sensitive areas in 16 our gaming. 17 MS. ATTOCKNIE: When y'all come back 18 from this trip, would you please give us a report 19 of what you gained and what went on? You guys 20 take trips all the time and we never hear 21 nothing. We're the governing body and we never 22 hear anything. 23 MR. BURGESS: My report on the NCAI 24 trip will be in the paper. It comes out next 25 week. Should be posted on the Website, my report 74 1 on that tribal. 2 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: That's a good 3 point. We under utilize the Website that we 4 have. A paragraph at least would be helpful. 5 MR. BURGESS: We're going to have 6 some discussion in executive on communication. 7 MR. TIPPECONNIE: I want to make one 8 comment on NCAI. We attended that. Again, I have 9 the honor, because I'm the area vice president of 10 NCAI. But one of the things that the Oklahoma 11 caucus -- we have two caucuses in Oklahoma, the 12 western tribes and the eastern tribes. We caucus 13 and look at things that are beneficial to Oklahoma 14 nations, Indian nations. One of the things we did 15 get passed is a resolution which is hopefully 16 going to go forward from all the 39 tribes in 17 Oklahoma to ask Governor-Elect Mary Fallin, to 18 establish a cabinet secretary of Indian affairs. 19 So that was passed in the national congress, and 20 hopefully it's going to go out under letterhead of 21 all the tribal leaders in Oklahoma to Governor- 22 Elect Fallin. We think it's high time that that 23 be established in the state of Oklahoma, that they 24 recognize that Indian nations are sovereigns, they 25 should be acknowledged as that, and a cabinet 75 1 level would do that. I just want to let you know 2 that. So that was one good outcome that we 3 brought forward and we got it passed in the 4 congress. 5 MR. WHITEWOLF: Mike, I have to 6 mention one thing to what Tony was talking about. 7 Well, I'm not going to speak for him. What he's 8 trying to say that I know is that you've got 9 Commissioner Hickory Starr is the problem. It 10 started going down when Stephenson was there. I 11 didn't think it would get any worse, but then 12 along came Hickory Starr. He is the problem. 13 MR. BURGESS: We've been pushing that 14 since I got on board. I can't say I made it every 15 month, but the ones I've been making, I've been 16 pushing that and making that statement, which 17 supports Dr. Chappabitty when he was employed 18 there, bringing that up to his supervisors. The 19 ADL rate has to be increased above 5 point 20 something, and we just heard that through 21 communications when someone advocated for this 22 hospital to be fully staffed and funded, and their 23 problem is having people serving with medical 24 degrees outside the United States, had five years 25 to get their medical degree, I would say 76 1 reaffirmed here in the United States, they did 2 not. And so we have a communications barrier, we 3 have a cultural gap. 4 MR. RESA: That's incorrect. That's 5 incorrect 1,000 percent. 6 MR. BURGESS: What's incorrect? 7 MR. RESA: I don't want to get into 8 it right now, but the information you're getting, 9 some of it maybe is not correct. 10 MR. BURGESS: I'm referring to the 11 doctors, the communication gap, cultural 12 awareness. 13 MR. RESA: I'm talking about the 14 degree. 15 MR. BURGESS: Well, I'm talking about 16 the doctors who don't have empathy for some of the 17 patients, and then they want to send them into 18 town for whatever reason when they could be kept 19 there and a doctor could be brought in to service 20 them there to get our daily rate up. We won't get 21 attention until we get enough people staying 22 overnight in the hospital. 23 MR. WHITEWOLF: We don't have the 24 confidence in the medical knowledge of those 25 doctors there. We don't want to teach them 77 1 anything that they don't know, and so that's why 2 we don't go to the hospital. People with a little 3 insurance, we go downtown. We don't want to get 4 killed. 5 MR. BURGESS: You're right. And 6 contract health is going broke. I mean, contract 7 health is going broke. They keep sending them to 8 the other places, and the bills are so high IHS 9 ain't paying them. 10 MR. RESA: I have a different view. 11 I've had BlueCross BlueShield for 20 plus years. 12 I choose to go to that facility. That's me, 13 though. I have confidence in the doctors that I 14 see. But you have that issue there everywhere in 15 Comanche County, Southwestern, Reynolds, about not 16 having qualified doctors. That's not new to this 17 facility. That is an issue, too, but it's not the 18 main issue. I promise you, it's not. That's my 19 point of view. That's the way I see it. 20 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Thank you, Tony. 21 MR. BURGESS: We have a motion here 22 to reaffirm Mr. Owens as the acting TA with all 23 authority. 24 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: No. 25 MR. NARCOMEY: Wasn't that brought up 78 1 in one of our recalls, that we got the one on now 2 about how come our vice-chairman put him on? Was 3 that listed as one of the bill of particulars? 4 MR. BURGESS: I don't know. I 5 haven't seen a recall. Somebody out there got it, 6 you want to show us the recall? 7 MS. MCDANIEL: Oh, yes, I do. And I 8 have a comment, too. 9 MR. BURGESS: Show us the recall item 10 or tell us what it is. 11 MS. MCDANIEL: I'm talking about 12 reaffirming William Owens as TA. What's the 13 status of Willie Nelson? Did y'all fire him? 14 MR. BURGESS: He's on admin leave 15 until further notice. 16 MS. MCDANIEL: Until further notice? 17 I mean, how long has he been on admin leave? 18 Willie? 19 MR. NELSON: Six months. 20 MS. MCDANIEL: Six months. 21 MR. BURGESS: He seems to be enjoying 22 it. 23 MS. MCDANIEL: Why are we spending 24 six months of -- why are we letting him be on -- 25 if y'all are going to let him go, let him go so we 79 1 can call a general council meeting and hire a real 2 tribal administrator, not one who really doesn't 3 have the credentials and a questionable 4 individual. 5 MR. GOODIN: I have a couple of 6 questions. It was my understanding that the tribe 7 hired Mr. Nelson. Why did the tribe not fire 8 him? I mean, who fired him? 9 MR. BURGESS: He's not fired. 10 MR. GOODIN: Who put him on 11 administrative leave? 12 MR. BURGESS: The CBC. 13 MS. ATTOCKNIE: Who are his 14 supervisors? 15 MR. GOODIN: Was that a legal-called 16 meeting whenever they did that? 17 MR. BURGESS: It was done at a CBC 18 meeting. 19 MR. KOSECHEQUETAH: It was a 20 reconvened meeting and all members were present 21 and it passed unanimously. 22 MR. GOODIN: Who hired this other 23 guy? 24 MR. BURGESS: He was brought in as 25 acting, yes. It's happened in the past. It's 80 1 been happening in the past by the CBC to bring in 2 a person to serve as acting TA. 3 MR. GOODIN: Then why are we paying 4 two of them to do one man's job for so long? 5 Either do something -- 6 MR. BURGESS: You want us to do 7 something? Such as? 8 MR. GOODIN: Either do something or 9 get off the pot, like, you know -- 10 MR. BURGESS: Okay. 11 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Exactly. Call 12 a tribal -- 13 MS. MCDANIEL: Call a tribal council 14 meeting so the council can hire a TA. 15 MR. NELSON: Since people are talking 16 about this position, when was Mr. William Owens 17 affirmed? How was he affirmed? 18 MR. BURGESS: At the same meeting, 19 the same motion by CBC. 20 MR. NELSON: The motion said that I 21 was on administrative leave pending an 22 investigation recommended by law enforcement. 23 Recommended by law enforcement. There was no 24 motion for William Owens to be the TA. There's a 25 memo that says William Owens is the TA. What's 81 1 really scary about this is a memo that 2 endoctrinated somebody to have all financial 3 record control, to have personnel control. 4 MS. ATTOCKNIE: You had personnel 5 control when you were the TA, and one of the other 6 things with regard to her comment is there's 7 people that are making comments about Mr. Owens' 8 capabilities do not work here with them. Us that 9 work here with him -- 10 MR. BURGESS: You made your point. 11 Thank you, Mr. Nelson. 12 MR. NELSON: No, I'm trying to make 13 my rule of order. This is my rule of order of 14 Robert's Rule meeting, a rule of order, point of 15 order. I don't want to argue. I come in peace. 16 I come in peace. 17 MS. ATTOCKNIE: No, you started it. 18 MR. NELSON: The thing is, show me, 19 when was he affirmed? Can somebody produce a 20 motion, a resolution, that affirmed him? Can you 21 produce a motion? Can you? We elect you people 22 to follow our constitution. Anything you do is by 23 a majority vote. 24 MR. HENSON: He's only an acting 25 position. 82 1 MR. NELSON: The constitution says no 2 action can be taken unless there is a majority 3 vote of five people. One memo does mean one 4 thing. Then we have a dictatorship by a memo. 5 MR. TIPPECONNIE: We have a motion 6 here. I suggest in the wording here that we 7 affirm him as acting. 8 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: So does that 9 null and void everything he's done in the last six 10 months because he wasn't affirmed? 11 MR. BURGESS: No, it doesn't. 12 MRS. GOODIN: When do we as Comanche 13 people get to vote on William Owens as our TA?. 14 MS. ATTOCKNIE: He is not the TA, 15 he's the acting TA. There is a difference. 16 MR. HENSON: Let me clear this up. 17 I'll tell you the truth about what happened. 18 There was an incident that happened here which 19 Mr. Nelson was involved in, and it was with the 20 police department. I and the police department 21 went to approach him and he wouldn't answer 22 anything. He said hold him in insubordination. 23 We went back to my office, they wanted to do an 24 investigation, they started an investigation. 25 During the investigation, they came back to me and 83 1 said he is -- what's the word I'm looking for? 2 He's not helping the investigation, he's doing 3 things -- 4 MRS. GALLEGOS: Uncooperative. 5 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Obstructive. 6 MR. HENSON: He was obstructing the 7 investigation is what it was. So they came back 8 to me and asked me if there was something I could 9 do about it. Well, at the time, I was the only 10 one here. So I had called several of the other 11 CBC. I couldn't get ahold of them. And then they 12 told me that either they're going to put him in 13 jail for obstruction if he don't quit messing with 14 them, or for me to do something about it. So what 15 I did, I put him on administrative leave with pay 16 at the time. Now, this was on a Thursday. When 17 the CBC got back, they were supposed to make up 18 their mind on what's going to happen. 19 Well, during the period of time 20 between that short period of time, they found 21 other matters that was in the investigation that 22 was brought up. So when the police department 23 talked to the CBC, CBC confirmed me putting him on 24 leave with pay, and they also confirmed Willie as 25 acting -- Will as acting. So that's how all that 84 1 came about. The rest of it is, there's some 2 things that's going on that's with the police 3 department and that's why nothing's been happened 4 thus far. 5 MR. BURGESS: BIA. 6 MR. NELSON: Mr. Henson, I beg to 7 differ. This is our chief of police. You are our 8 chief of police. Was this recommended by you to 9 have an investigation? 10 MR. GRIFFEN: I was not here at the 11 time. The acting chief of police at that time was 12 Ron Niedo. 13 MR. NELSON: Who is your supervisor? 14 MR. GRIFFEN: Council. 15 MR. BURGESS: CBC. 16 MR. NELSON: Who is your supervisor? 17 MR. GRIFFEN: CBC. 18 MR. BURGESS: He answered your 19 question, Mr. Nelson. 20 MR. HENSON: Let's go ahead and shut 21 this off. I gave you all the information that you 22 need, every bit of it is true. If you don't 23 believe me, you can check with the police 24 department, you can check with the CBC at the time 25 that it happened. Or you can check with -- was it 85 1 Donna that was doing the investigation? You can 2 talk with her. She's one of our detectives. 3 MR. NELSON: Mr. Henson, sir? 4 MS. MCDANIEL: What are you going to 5 do about the administrator, the acting 6 administrator? 7 MR. NELSON: Mr. Henson, sir, when I 8 called you the day after you did this, you said, 9 "Willie, I did it. Now it's in Mike's hands." 10 That's what you told me. You're free from it. 11 You did it, but it's in Mike's hands. That's what 12 you told me. I got it recorded. I got it 13 recorded. 14 MR. HENSON: Well, it doesn't make 15 any difference what it means. What does it mean? 16 MR. NELSON: I have got to be honest 17 with you, I don't know what any of this means. 18 MR. HENSON: I put you on 19 administrative leave because you were in trouble, 20 and if you'd stayed you would have been in jail. 21 MR. BURGESS: Point of order here. 22 Sit down. We have a motion on the floor. Sit 23 down, please. We're through with this 24 discussion. It's gone too far. Yes, thank you, 25 sit down. 86 1 MS. MCDANIEL: I'm not going to sit 2 down. I want to make a comment before you make 3 this motion. 4 MR. TAHKOPFER: The motion's made. 5 MS. MCDANIEL: Before you vote on it, 6 I'd like to make a comment. If he committed a 7 crime and he's in trouble, you need to fire him so 8 that the tribal -- the people can vote a new TA. 9 We don't need to reaffirm William Owens as the 10 TA. We need to vote in a new one, the people vote 11 in a new one. 12 MR. BURGESS: Thank you for your 13 comment. 14 MS. MCDANIEL: Well, thank you. 15 MR. BURGESS: Motion made by 16 Mr. Tippeconnie. Second? 17 MR. HENSON: I'll second. 18 MR. BURGESS: Second by Mr. Henson. 19 All those in favor signify by saying "aye". 20 (Aye.) 21 MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same 22 sign. All those abstain, same sign. 23 MR. REDELK: Nay. 24 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Nay. 25 MR. NARCOMEY: Nay. 87 1 MR. BURGESS: 3 to 3. Mr. William 2 Owens is the acting TA. 3 MS. AITSON: Why, because you said 4 so? 5 MRS. GALLEGOS: Because the motion 6 passed. That's how it works. 7 MR. BURGESS: The motion passed. 8 MS. ATTOCKNIE: Tribal council voted 9 no confidence to begin with. It shouldn't have 10 been on the ballot. 11 MR. BURGESS: We have a motion here 12 to change the blood quantum and name from 018211. 13 The blood quantum to be changed from 3/16th to 14 7/16th. The name will be changed to that of the 15 biological father. The biological father, proved 16 by DNA testing, possesses three-quarter Comanche 17 tribal blood; therefore, raising the total 18 Comanche blood quantum of this child, and now 19 lists the biological father on the Comanche Nation 20 Tribal records as the father. 21 MR. HENSON: I'll make a motion to 22 approve. 23 MR. BURGESS: We have a motion by 24 Mr. Henson to approve. Second? 25 MR. TIPPECONNIE: I second. 88 1 MR. BURGESS: This seems to be a 2 technical formality. Somebody submitted by DNA 3 testing to show records. All those in favor 4 signify by saying "aye". 5 (Aye.) 6 MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same 7 sign. All those abstain, same sign. Motion 8 passes. 9 MR. TIPPECONNIE: These are -- this 10 next motion is for two trust lots located in the 11 township of Walters, purchase to be from 12 Mrs. Sharon Riddles Kindred. We have a resolution 13 already that we passed that we were wanting to go 14 into negotiated sale, so Mrs. Riddles has come 15 back saying, you know, the appraisal was made and 16 she's willing to accept that, and she's told us 17 what it is. So it's $1,000 per lot. So she is 18 willing to sell two lots in Walters, both in 19 trust, for $2,000. The motion is to accept her -- 20 MR. BURGESS: Do you make that? 21 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Yes, I'll make the 22 motion. 23 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Mr. Chairman, I 24 second the motion. 25 MR. BURGESS: Motion made by Bob, 89 1 second by Mark Wauahdooah. Questions? 2 MR. NARCOMEY: This is just empty 3 lots? 4 MR. BURGESS: They're empty. 5 MR. HENSON: How big are these lots, 6 Bob? 7 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Standard, 90 by 8 120. 9 MR. BURGESS: Mark, you did second 10 that? 11 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: I second that, 12 because of the potential for housing. 13 MR. BURGESS: Motion is on the floor, 14 second by Mr. Wauahdooah. All those in favor 15 signify by saying "aye". 16 (Aye.) 17 MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same 18 sign. All those abstain, same sign. The ayes 19 have it. 20 MR. TIPPECONNIE: I apologize. I 21 should have brought this forward to the body here 22 to add another resolution. It has come forward 23 from law enforcement. I'll pass this out. 24 MR. BURGESS: Vern, you wanted to 25 express on this? 90 1 MR. GRIFFEN: Go ahead and read it. 2 MR. BURGESS: Whereas, the CBC is the 3 duly elected official body designated to conduct 4 business for and on behalf of the Comanche Nation. 5 Therefore, it is resolved that the 6 Comanche Nation reaffirms its law enforcement 7 service commitment to the nation defining the law 8 enforcement overtime/holiday pay policy. 9 This reaffirmation continues the 10 guidance of law enforcement compensation 11 established by previous administrations since the 12 law enforcement duties resume within the nation. 13 Due to the nature of 24-hour-a-day duty by the law 14 enforcement personnel and need to continue law 15 enforcement during holidays and nontraditional 16 duty hours, this policy amends the current 2010 17 policy and procedure manual on compensation to 18 properly compensate the officers and dispatchers 19 who work on holidays and/or overtime hours. 20 The current policy and procedure 21 manual could never compensate law enforcement 22 personnel by compensated time off due to the 23 24-hour-a-day nature of the department. All 24 overtime requests and holiday pay submittals will 25 follow the new docket time accounting for law 91 1 enforcement resolution within the law enforcement 2 policy and procedure handbook. We're going by our 3 policy. We passed a previous handbook on this, so 4 we will continue with that. 5 MR. GRIFFEN: Back there is just a 6 copy of what they previously have done. 7 MR. BURGESS: Since 1983, I might 8 add. 9 MR. WHITEWOLF: What's the number on 10 this? 11 MR. TIPPECONNIE: 184-10. 12 MR. WHITEWOLF: Is that going to be 13 an increased cost in services by the police 14 department? 15 MR. GRIFFEN: No, sir, it isn't. It 16 defines what we're doing right now. We're already 17 doing it now. 18 MR. HENSON: It's in the budget. 19 MR. GRIFFEN: There's a conflict in 20 our current handbook, and this just defines how we 21 do it. 22 MR. HENSON: I'll make the motion to 23 approve. 24 MR. BURGESS: Motion's been made by 25 Mr. Henson on this resolution. 92 1 MR. HENSON: This is already in the 2 budget, right? 3 MR. GRIFFEN: Yes. 4 MS. ATTOCKNIE: I need to make a 5 statement about law enforcement and budgets, and 6 if there's enough money for this and for that. 7 One of the things with the law enforcement 8 department is that they just do not rely on the 9 638 monies. 10 MR. BURGESS: Correct. 11 MS. ATTOCKNIE: Chief Griffin applies 12 for every, practically every grant possible that 13 comes down from the Department of Justice, from 14 the State of Oklahoma, from any other federal 15 funding agency to supplement the program, the law 16 enforcement program. The monies are there and 17 available for the specific duties of his 18 officers. So there is no stretching of the 638 19 monies. Chief Griffin goes after and gets 20 grants. Drug abuse, what was that? 21 MR. GRIFFEN: Vehicles. 22 MS. ATTOCKNIE: For the vehicle, to 23 purchase tribal vehicles. 24 MR. BURGESS: Equipment. 25 MR. ATTOCKNIE: He received those 93 1 grants. He went after them and got them. 2 MR. HENSON: I might add that he's 3 never over budget. 4 MR. BURGESS: We have a motion here. 5 MR. TIPPECONNIE: I second. 6 MR. BURGESS: Call for the question. 7 All those in favor signify by saying "aye". 8 (Aye.) 9 MR. BURGESS: All those opposed, same 10 sign. All those abstain, same sign. The ayes 11 have it, 184-10. Thank you. 12 Did you get your folks moved okay? 13 MR. GRIFFEN: Yes, moved them back. 14 MR. BURGESS: Ladies and gentlemen, 15 we're moving into new and old business. That was 16 the last resolution. 17 MS. MCDANIEL: I have a resolution I 18 want to submit under new business. 19 MR. BURGESS: You have a resolution? 20 MS. MCDANIEL: Yes. 21 MR. BURGESS: Bring it before we 22 consider it. Bring it over here to 23 Mr. Tippeconnie. 24 MS. MCDANIEL: Under -- 25 MR. BURGESS: This has to be done one 94 1 week prior so we even have the agenda made. 2 MS. MCDANIEL: There's several of 3 these resolutions that weren't on the agenda. 4 For the record, I want to submit this 5 resolution. The CBC resolution, I'm requesting a 6 vote to comply with policies and procedures 7 governing use of petitions by members of the 8 Comanche Nation. 9 Whereas, the Comanche Nation is the 10 federally recognized Indian tribe with a tribal 11 constitution being an instrument of self- 12 governance as approved by the Secretary of 13 Interior on January 9th, 1967, and with the tribal 14 council as the supreme governing body; and 15 Whereas, tribal sovereignty of the 16 Comanche Nation is predicated on the adherence to 17 the tribal constitution and all duly adopted 18 ordinance of the nation; and 19 Whereas, the CBC develop policies and 20 procedures governing the use of petitions by 21 members of the Comanche Nation in accordance with 22 the provisions of the Comanche Tribal 23 Constitution; and 24 Whereas, the Comanche Tribal 25 Constitution provides that the tribal chairman 95 1 shall be required to call a special tribal council 2 meeting when he is so requested by a petition 3 signed by 200 eligible voters; and 4 Whereas, the current CBC under the 5 leadership of Michael Burgess willfully 6 misinterpreted the petition ordinance and failed 7 to provide due process and fair treatment under 8 the law governing the use of petitions; and 9 Whereas, 286 names were counted on 10 Comanche Petition 09-10 as initiated by James 11 Nelson and Eleanor McDaniel to recall Michael 12 Burgess as chairman of Comanche Nation. 88 names 13 were counted ineligible and only 14 of those names 14 were provided with an explanation of 15 ineligibility. 16 So I ended up with 196 names that 17 were counted as eligible by the enrollment 18 director, Donna Wahnee; and 19 Whereas, under the current petition 20 ordinance, the CBC has the final authority to 21 assure that all provisions of the ordinance have 22 been complied with as to the validity of a 23 petition, not the enrollment director. The CBC 24 failed to adhere to the current petition ordinance 25 by not calling a special meeting of the CBC solely 96 1 for the purpose, nothing else, but solely for the 2 purpose of reviewing the 88 names not counted. 3 The CBC further failed to act on the validity of 4 the Petition 09-10 and failed to render a decision 5 in the matter. 6 Whereas, the tribal constitution 7 provides that the tribal chairman shall be 8 required to call a special tribal council meeting 9 when he is requested in writing by as many as 10 three members of the business committee setting 11 forth the purpose of the meeting; and, 12 Therefore be it resolved, in order to 13 comply with the Comanche constitution and the 14 policies and procedures that govern the use of 15 petitions by members of the Comanche Nation, the 16 Comanche Tribal Chairman shall by this resolution 17 call a special tribal council meeting for the 18 purpose of recalling Michael Burgess as the 19 chairman of the Comanche Nation. 20 I submit this resolution as record. 21 Thank you. 22 MR. BURGESS: Any comment? It's on 23 the agenda. Barring any other intrusion on the 24 agenda, we're moving on to Item Number 1. 25 MR. REDELK: I have a comment, 97 1 Chairman. I talked to Donna Wahnee about the 2 recall petition, and she told me that she's 3 waiting on action from the CBC before she can 4 complete her task. I made a motion, and did not 5 receive a second, to review, and consequently, we 6 did not do our duty in concluding this recall 7 petition. On the next-to-the-last-item, whereas, 8 I agree with that part. We should have a meeting 9 reviewing the recall. 10 MR. TIPPECONNIE: The CBC? 11 MR. REDELK: Yes. 12 MR. BURGESS: You made a motion. It 13 died for lack of a second. We don't act without a 14 second. 15 MR. REDELK: That's right. 16 MR. BURGESS: To quote the 17 constitution, in a meeting you mentioned that we 18 should follow the constitution, we're duly sworn 19 to follow it and uphold it. The constitution 20 reads: Such a meeting shall not be unless a 21 petition is signed by 200 eligible members of the 22 Comanche Tribe requesting it. There were not 200 23 members. There was only 196 eligible. So now you 24 want to go by the ordinance when prior to that 25 your words, to quote you, was we don't need to 98 1 follow the ordinance, follow the constitution. 2 I'm quoting you in our meeting. 3 So now you want to go by the 4 constitution which says for two items. One, there 5 was not 200 signatures eligible to be counted 6 because you only had 196. Secondly, I never 7 received a bill of particulars. 8 MS. MCDANIEL: What about the 88 9 names? I was never given -- 10 MR. BURGESS: That's why it's 11 ineligible. 12 MS. MCDANIEL: I was never given an 13 explanation. There's no reason why these 88 names 14 were removed. Under the ordinance, you have to 15 review it to ensure that the petition ordinance is 16 being followed. 17 MR. BURGESS: There's only 196 names 18 and it's not eligible. 19 MS. MCDANIEL: There's 88 of them. 20 There was 296 on that -- 21 MR. BURGESS: There's only 196 22 eligible, that's it. There's not 200. 23 MS. MCDANIEL: But that's your 24 responsibility to review it. 25 MR. BURGESS: I did, and this is the 99 1 constitution. There's not 200 eligible 2 signatures. Mr. RedElk said let's follow the 3 constitution. Did you not? 4 MS. MCDANIEL: That's a play on -- 5 MR. REDELK: I also stated we are not 6 doing our duty according to the constitution and 7 the petition to review this petition. We need to 8 give Donna Wahnee some direction. She's waiting 9 for us to say yeah or nay. 10 MS. ATTOCKNIE: Yeah or nay to what? 11 MR. BURGESS: To what? Well, sir, 12 you made a motion. You didn't get a second on 13 that motion. 14 MR. REDELK: I know I did. 15 MR. BURGESS: Okay. 16 MS. MCDANIEL: There were 286 -- 17 MR. BURGESS: So you want me to call 18 a meeting without the body here? 19 MR. WHITEWOLF: To review. 20 MR. BURGESS: The review was done. 21 MS. ATTOCKNIE: The review was done 22 by the enrollment. They declared that -- 23 MS. MCDANIEL: You're required to do 24 a review. 25 MS. ATTOCKNIE: The review was done 100 1 by enrollment. They declared that there were so 2 many ineligible signatures. And all of it says 3 that once there's no 200, if there's not 200 4 signatures, then it becomes -- that's it. 5 (Discussion held off record.) 6 MS. MCDANIEL: There are 88 names 7 that y'all didn't review and they were thrown off 8 the petition for no reason. 9 MR. BURGESS: There must have been a 10 reason or else they wouldn't have done it. 11 MS. MCDANIEL: No, there wasn't. 12 MR. BURGESS: If I recall, there were 13 about 60 that were duplicates. 14 MS. MCDANIEL: No, there weren't. 15 That's your job to review it, to find out. 16 MR. BURGESS: No, it goes to 17 enrollment. 18 MS. MCDANIEL: According to the 19 ordinance, it's you. This body right here has the 20 final, it says -- your ordinance says that you are 21 the final authority for complying with the 22 ordinance. But for the record, that's why I'm 23 having a petition for recalling all of you. 24 MR. BURGESS: I might add, ladies and 25 gentlemen -- 101 1 MRS. HENSON: I want to say 2 something. I think that if they write all this 3 trash about these people -- 4 MS. MCDANIEL: It isn't trash. 5 MRS. HENSON: Prove it. 6 MS. MCDANIEL: I have. 7 MRS. HENSON: I'm so tired of getting 8 these letters, and my husband has done nothing. 9 As far I'm concerned, I don't know if any of them 10 have. 11 MR. BURGESS: Vern? Next outburst 12 from you without being recognized, I'm going to 13 have you escorted out. 14 MS. MCDANIEL: Please do. 15 MR. BURGESS: Third warning. 16 MS. MCDANIEL: Please. 17 MR. BURGESS: Vern, would you escort 18 her outside, please. 19 MS. MCDANIEL: Come on, Vern. Escort 20 me out. That's all you know how to do, you big 21 goon. Come on, Phyllis. 22 MS. AITSON: Mike, you need to be 23 more concerned about your people. You know, I am 24 an elder. I dare you talk to me like you talked 25 to her. You have been so radical and ugly and 102 1 hostile to people. Shake your head every which 2 way. You have done nothing, Bunky has done 3 nothing, Wauahdooah hasn't done nothing. All of 4 you people. I hope those petitions go through, 5 because y'all have hurt me so much. And you know, 6 all of you know what I'm talking about. My family 7 has suffered because of you people that sit up 8 there thinking you're somebody. You're nobody, 9 because you're not helping your tribe, you're 10 hurting them. Somebody needs to pray for you each 11 and every day. 12 MR. BURGESS: Thank you for your 13 blessed words. 14 MS. AITSON: Thank you for nothing. 15 You come from a cheated family, a crooked family. 16 Escort me out. That's why we put you in there, to 17 do something right, but you're crooked. 18 MS. ATTOCKNIE: Any resolutions that 19 are to be brought before the CBC have to be put on 20 the agenda at least 10 days prior to the CBC 21 meeting, correct? 22 MR. WHITEWOLF: Didn't the police 23 supply Mr. Tippeconnie with a resolution? What's 24 the difference? 25 MR. BURGESS: That's not the reason. 103 1 You know that. Everyone should be allowed to 2 speak and no one else should be shouting them 3 down. She had something to say. That's not being 4 fair, that's not being kind, respectful. Then I'm 5 getting blasted because I'm allowing people to 6 speak? Did you finish? 7 MRS. HENSON: I just get aggravated 8 because people say ugly things. Why don't they 9 have the proof? If they've got all this stuff, 10 why don't do that, get proof in writing? All it 11 is is talk and gossip. 12 MR. BURGESS: Lies and innuendos 13 don't help us at all. 14 Bob, back to our agenda. Did you 15 have a statement? 16 MR. TIPPECONNIE: I'd like to move 17 the discussion on this to executive session. Not 18 so much the resolutions, but on a point that was 19 made in the resolution. I'd like to have that 20 discussion in executive session. 21 MR. BURGESS: Okay. 22 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Mr. Chairman, 23 I have one thing to say. Since you approved the 24 other TA, are you going to ask for a general 25 council so we can get another TA? Because you 104 1 said you were going by the constitution. Let's go 2 by the constitution and set up a date to get a 3 general council so that we can get another TA. 4 MR. BURGESS: It requires a 10 day or 5 20 day notice for a special called CBC. Then 6 we're going into the holidays in a couple of -- 7 MR. WHITEWOLF: She's talking about 8 recall, Mike. Once a recall is made, made after 9 December 15th, you've got to wait until April. 10 MR. BURGESS: It's asking for a 11 specially called council meeting. 12 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: For the TA 13 that y'all put another one in. Shouldn't we have a 14 general council so we hire another TA? 15 MR. WHITEWOLF: Well, we don't have 16 to necessarily hire him. We can take a request. 17 MR. NELSON: We need to change it. 18 We need to get a vote on him in the general 19 council so we can put him on. Don't you think so? 20 MS. ATTOCKNIE: Not in an acting 21 position. 22 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: How long is he 23 going to act? Until we have a general council 24 again when you take somebody off? When the 25 general council put them on there, you need to 105 1 have another general council so you can put 2 another TA in there. 3 MR. WHITEWOLF: Because Willie's in 4 there illegally. 5 MR. BURGESS: I wish you guys made 6 that statement in 2006 and 2004 and prior to that. 7 You're here without being asked and then you 8 didn't say nothing then. I brought it to y'all's 9 attention, but, no. 10 MR. WHITEWOLF: You don't make sense, 11 my friend. 12 MR. HENSON: I think to answer you, I 13 think part of the answer to that is that it costs 14 so much to bring a special general council 15 meeting, that it might be better as far as the 16 cost is concerned to wait until April. 17 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Are we going 18 to pay both of those? 19 MR. HENSON: Bob, what is the cost of 20 a general council meeting? 21 MR. BURGESS: Averaging $35,000. 22 That's the machines. Average is $50,000. 23 MR. HENSON: That's the cost of 24 getting a general council, and I think that's 25 probably why the CBC -- well, I'm speaking for 106 1 myself, not the complete CBC. That's probably 2 part of the reason why I'd rather wait until 3 April. 4 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Both of those 5 TAs, how much is that going to cost? 6 MR. HENSON: On the cost of the TA, 7 we're not paying the full salary of the TA. He's 8 one of our acting directors over there, and we did 9 give him a few more dollars more than what he was 10 making to take the acting position after 90 days 11 had passed. 12 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: How about the 13 other TA that eventually was in there? Are you 14 still paying him full -- 15 MR. HENSON: He is -- 16 MR. BURGESS: I heard y'all make a 17 request today to do something about it. 18 MR. HENSON: He's currently still -- 19 MR. BURGESS: His supporter said 20 terminate him or whatever. If he done wrong, he's 21 done wrong. You're giving us authority here to 22 correct any wrongdoing. 23 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Are we going 24 to have people saying what y'all did in black and 25 white showing why he was terminated? I'm in the 107 1 dark on this whole thing. 2 MR. HENSON: Well, there might be 3 some personal issues in that that we might not be 4 able to speak at. But, yes, you will. We'll give 5 you as much information as we can without hurting 6 the case. 7 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: As far as I 8 know, I heard that it had gone to court and 9 nothing come of it. 10 MR. BURGESS: No, it hasn't gone to 11 court. Mr. Attorneys, y'all were there when the 12 paperwork was submitted to the CFR prosecutor. Do 13 you have an update? 14 MR. NORMAN: Information was 15 submitted to the prosecutors and it's still under 16 consideration. We have not heard that they have 17 declined to prosecute or that they are going to 18 proceed. So I guess it's still being evaluated by 19 them. 20 MR. BURGESS: By the special 21 prosecutor? 22 MR. NORMAN: Right. 23 MR. HENSON: I might add, that's one 24 side of it. There's another side to it that's 25 administrative. 108 1 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I have one 2 more. If they told you to do something about it, 3 you're going to take one person and say you're 4 going to do something about it when there's 300 5 and some people that put him in that. That don't 6 balance anything. You take one and use that one 7 person that said do something about it, but you 8 have 300 people that put him in there. Which one 9 are you going to take, the one that said do 10 something about it? We should have a general 11 council to get rid of him. 12 MR. BURGESS: Well, we are the 13 supervisors and he's on administrative leave for, 14 I'll just say, wrongdoing. You bring up a good 15 point. One of his supporters saying if he done 16 wrong, get rid of him. Kenneth? 17 MR. GOODIN: I'm going home still 18 confused. My question was how did he get released 19 on administrative leave? This man over here tells 20 me it was all voted on aboveboard at a CBC 21 meeting. Five minutes later, Mr. Henson says he 22 made a phone call and did it himself. Then this 23 man over here says that Mr. Henson tells him that 24 he turned it over to you and he's out of the 25 picture. Now I'm going confused. 109 1 MR. BURGESS: I'm out of office, he's 2 insubordinate to the chairman at the time, the 3 vice-chairman. The vice-chairman couldn't reach 4 everybody. The vice-chairman told him to please 5 sit down and have a meeting. He told the vice- 6 chairman, I don't have time for that, you can 7 consider it insubordinate if you wish. The HR 8 policy says insubordination towards the 9 supervisor, who at the time was the vice-chairman 10 acting as the chairman, you go home today. We're 11 going to straighten this out and figure out what 12 happened. 13 The ensuing investigation brought all 14 of these wrong doings out. There's more than one, 15 and some of it is criminal. The's all I can say 16 because those are at the special prosecutor. 17 MR. HENSON: I put him on 18 administrative leave. The CBC had a meeting the 19 next day and confirmed putting him on 20 administrative leave, and that's where it's at. 21 MR. BURGESS: It wasn't the next 22 day -- 23 MR. HENSON: There was an 24 investigation being done -- 25 MR. BURGESS: We had a reconvened CBC 110 1 meeting coming up, so it was brought before us at 2 that time, and then the CBC voted to affirm his 3 action putting him on administrative leave, and we 4 made the motion and affirmed the acting TA to step 5 in and continue acting. 6 MR. GRIFFEN: But it was affirmed 7 after he was put on administrative leave. 8 MR. BURGESS: It was affirmed by a 9 CBC meeting. That's what had to be done. 10 MR. HENSON: He was put on 11 administrative leave with pay, so there wouldn't 12 have been any harm except that he'd been off a 13 couple of days until the CBC had a meeting. 14 That's why I made that decision. 15 MR. REDELK: Mr. Chairman, we as the 16 CBC are legal. Now, I as an individual CBC member 17 and vice-chairman, the rest of us are not legal 18 outside of this meeting. We don't have that 19 authority. 20 MR. HENSON: We don't have what 21 authority? 22 MR. REDELK: That you assumed. 23 MR. HENSON: I assumed as the CEO 24 that day what I did. 25 MR. REDELK: There is not a CEO that 111 1 has that authority. 2 MR. HENSON: I was his supervisor 3 that day. That's why it was done. It was done 4 basically to keep him out of jail. That was the 5 main reason. 6 MR. BURGESS: And Mr. RedElk nor 7 Mr. Wauahdooah were on the CBC at the time. So it 8 was done by the past CBC prior to the elections. 9 So they would not have firsthand knowledge of it, 10 of what happened, what transpired. It's in the 11 minutes. We did it by record. The CBC affirmed 12 his actions because the gentleman was being 13 insubordinate. 14 MRS. GOODIN: Are those minutes on 15 your Website? 16 MR. BURGESS: When was that, May or 17 June, June or July? We're moving on. We have 18 Mr. Jarrett Smith with us from -- 19 20 MS. NARCOMEY: I've been on this 21 subject about the Comanche Indian Cemetery that 22 was established by the Dutch Reformed Church. 23 They changed their name. They took Dutch off 24 because they weren't getting any new members, so 25 it's the Reformed Church. 112 1 Anyway, in 1895, the Women's Board of 2 Domestic Missions of the Dutch Reform Church 3 established the Comanche Church and Comanche 4 Indian Cemetery. The missionaries worked among 5 the Comanches and Apache Indians. 6 On September the 20th, 1984, Sergeant 7 Lucas uncovered the west and east end of the 8 Comanche Indian Cemetery so our people could see 9 the names on the markers. Three CBC were 10 present: George Watchetaker, George Wallace, and 11 Louis Clark. Also members of the Comanche Indian 12 Cemetery Association, Reverend John Pahdocony, 13 Otipoby, Pearl Kauley, Edgar Monetachi, Mr. and 14 Mrs. Phil Narcomey, and Eleanor Levielle. Eleanor 15 was the sister of John Pahdocony. 16 Ms. Otipoby told us the cemetery was 17 located northwest of the agency and contained 18 three buildings and were east of the railroad 19 track. The railroad is the same place as it was 20 years ago. It never was moved. The Comanche 21 stock kept their horses between the Comanches camp 22 where Rogers Lane is now located. Sergeant Jesse 23 Al Lucas was superintendent of the Fort Sill 24 Cemetery. He attended few meetings with our 25 cemetery group, had great interest in the mission 113 1 cemetery. He researched and surveyed the site. 2 He compiled 109 names, 42 in the cemetery. He 3 researched and searched the site and compiled 109 4 names. 42 is unknown, 27 names identified. 40 5 have names, but identity is not known. Sergeant 6 Lucas attends the 100th anniversary of the 7 Comanche Indian Mission Cemetery November the 8 11th, 1995. That was their 100th birthday. He 9 displayed a chart of the cemetery. 10 From what my mother had talked about, 11 I decided to draw a map. On the west end is the 12 Comanche Indian Mission Cemetery, first known as 13 Comanche Indian Graveyard. I'd like to mention 14 the names that were there first. The Penutuka 15 surrendered -- 1868. The Kosetuka in 18 -- I 16 can't read my writing. I think '72. Yampituka in 17 1874. 18 Sergeant Lucas was very interested in 19 our cemetery, so he uncovered the west end. These 20 were considered the smallpox victims buried in 21 1898 through '99 when the small pox killed a lot 22 of our people. East of the cemetery was the 23 police pasture. That's where the Comanche tribe 24 stock kept their horses here. East of the 25 railroad track where the convenience store is now 114 1 located north of the cemetery, was the agency. 2 There were three buildings there. They built 3 small adobe buildings for the agency. In her 4 spare time, Otipoby, my mother, said the Comanche 5 Indian Cemetery was northwest of the agency. 6 In 1895 the Women's Board of Domestic 7 Missions of the Dutch Reformed Church established 8 the Comanche Church and the Comanche Indian 9 Cemetery. The missionary work among the Comanches 10 and Apache Indians. I'd like to mention here that 11 the Dutch Reformed Church came because of the Fort 12 Sill Apache. So many of their children were 13 dying -- I mean, parents were dying that a lot of 14 children were orphans. So they really came here 15 first for them, and the Comanches asked for a 16 church. 17 Sergeant Lucas uncovered the west and 18 east end of the markers. Three CBC were present. 19 The earlier bodies in that cemetery on the east 20 side were some of the smallpox victims. A few of 21 them had monuments. One of the monuments I 22 remember had tibo on it, and there were others, 23 about five more with Comanche names. The Comanche 24 Elders gave stories that there were so many dying, 25 there was no one to dig the graves, so they were 115 1 buried on top of those who died earlier. The 2 missionary kept the names of those. And since the 3 Penutuka and Yampituka were there first, they were 4 buried on the bottom of the cemetery. And next 5 came the group that the missionary kept their 6 names, I think 114 of them. Then on top of these 7 the church buried, there were the smallpox 8 victims. So many died that they put them -- there 9 was nobody to dig graves. Everyone was sick and 10 dying, so they put those who died on top of the -- 11 like the church kept. And when Sergeant Lucas 12 uncovered the graves, there were a few soldiers. 13 My husband was there and he said that at the 14 bottom, he could easily tell that these bodies 15 were older than those others. Kay Carty and John 16 Pahdocony, his grandpa told him that there was 17 already a ditch there that was northwest of the 18 cemetery, so they threw people in the ditch and 19 covered them. It must have been a terrible time. 20 There was no one to dig for the burials. The 21 Comanches told Sergeant Lucas there was about 200 22 in the cemetery, but I believe there was more, 23 because there was already these earlier burials. 24 And then the 114 and over 100 who were thrown on 25 top of this group, so that makes it probably more 116 1 than 200. Gilette Griswold gave us a lot of 2 materials. He was very interested, and so was 3 Sergeant Lucas. 4 The Army has helped in the past, 5 especially during the tenure of Gillette Griswold, 6 the Fort Sill museum director. Sergeant Lucas 7 explained the Comanche, Otipoby and the three 8 Apache cemeteries were supposed to close on 9 September the 30th, 1981, according to Army 10 official letters. But the final decision was for 11 them to remain open, so our cemetery was almost 12 closed. 13 We have a cemetery group, you know, 14 that's still in operation. Clifford is our 15 chairman. He has resigned or retired from the 16 regional office in Denton, Texas. He'll be coming 17 back soon. But the statement that our people gave 18 at this time when they were researching, I'll read 19 them. 20 A lot died from smallpox in 1888 and 21 '99 and buried there. This was given by William 22 Saupitty, age 82, 1959. This is from the Fort 23 Sill files. Another statement by Arthur Lawrence, 24 son of an early-day appraiser and businessman, 25 speaker of the Comanche language. It must have 117 1 been such a large number of deaths that shocked 2 and numbed our people of such proportion that they 3 did not discuss it, but it was a well-known fact. 4 By my mother, it was told that wagons came through 5 the camps to load the dead. The Comanches cried 6 until they could cry no more. And this is from 7 John Pahdocony as told by Oliver Pahdocony. 8 The smallpox victims were hauled to a 9 cave at the foot of Mt. Scott. They let two men 10 down in the cave and then the bodies and then the 11 men staked up the bodies. This is by Clyde 12 Tahkopfer as told by his grandson -- son, Karl. 13 In the early days I saw a white horse which seemed 14 to belong to no one that was continually in the 15 pasture of the vicinity of the cemetery. Maybe 16 his owner was buried there. Here are the people 17 who were issued smallpox-infected blankets. Here 18 are the people who were at Palo Duro Canyon. As a 19 spiritual leader from across the way said, there 20 can be no love without justice. Bradley, as told 21 by grandfather. So many died of the smallpox that 22 they couldn't dig individual graves. Not enough 23 members of some families were left to properly 24 mourn the dead. The deceased were rolled into 25 buck skins and loaded into wagons and placed in a 118 1 long ditch which was used for mass burials. By 2 Reverend John Pahdocony. 3 Here's another one. I was called to 4 doctor the people with smallpox near Fort Sill. 5 When I got there, many were dying and sick. I 6 started at one end of the camp. Before I was 7 finished with one camp, I would hear the people in 8 the next camp screaming and crying for their loved 9 ones. Then they brought wagons to load the bodies 10 to take off to bury. It was a terrible day for 11 the Comanche people. This is by Frank Chekova as 12 told to grandson, Raymond Nauni. My grandmother, 13 Kay Carty, told me that all the young men, there 14 was so many bodies that they dug a ditch and piled 15 the bodies in the hole. And there were two 16 statements given by people that there was somehow 17 a ditch was already dug, and this was by Kate 18 Carty, and they threw bodies in that ditch and 19 covered it. 20 My mother and her husband, a few of 21 us, will be -- and my uncle Charlie were all 22 children when they attended the Comanche Reformed 23 Church, and they knew a lot of stories about the 24 cemetery and what happened there. They're all 25 gone, and I admit I don't talk good Comanche, but 119 1 I understand real well. So I heard them talking 2 about this. These statements of our people were 3 gathered through the years by our group, the 4 cemetery -- Comanche Cemetery Association, which 5 still survives. We tried to get the name cemetery 6 committee through the state charter, but the 7 committee wasn't on their list. As noticed by 8 some people, to use their name. It still 9 survives. We haven't been meeting as often as we 10 used to, but at that time we did meet. We got a 11 lot of statements. We met at Petarsy Mission and 12 people would see lights there, and they would come 13 and visit and talk and also tell stories. I 14 decided to talk here, because there was only seven 15 people in there and here more people could hear 16 what I'm saying. 17 When Sergeant Lucas uncovered the 18 east part of the graves, I remembered the name 19 tibo on a marker. There were about five names 20 that had markers. Of course, the others didn't. 21 There's only one book that I know of 22 that mentions the story of the 1898 smallpox among 23 the area Indian tribes. The book is Life Among 24 Texas Indians, a WPA narrative by David Lapier, at 25 the Lawton library in the genealogy section. And 120 1 a small sign near gate 2 at the Comanche Indian 2 Mission Cemetery beginning at 1885 when it should 3 be 1895. Since the earlier mentioned cemetery 4 according to Fort Sill files was 1874 by Sergeant 5 Lucas. Therefore, the sign was put up in 1984 6 when Sergeant Lucas was there. Sergeant Lucas had 7 retired. Before he retired, there was an Army 8 plane wreck, or whatever you call it, so he was 9 sent there. Then later, he was sent to Egypt. So 10 after that, he retired and worked at 11 Huddleston's. He went to mortuary school after he 12 came from Egypt and retired and worked at 13 Huddleston's. And at the same time he worked for 14 the funeral home, which was Jefferson's. 15 MR. TOM NARCOMEY: What I handed out 16 was an article in the Constitution, October the 17 11th, '95, 15 years ago. And if you note on the 18 second column, second paragraph, it has -- well, 19 this article was an interview of Kim Carty, a Kim 20 McConnell, writer. Anyway, it has tribal members 21 say the epidemic began when the Army personnel 22 gave infested blankets to the tribe. Elders 23 remembering stories told of that time said both 24 Indians and the soldiers knew where the disease 25 originated, from the smallpox blankets. The 121 1 disease was especially tragic because tribal 2 members had no resistance to the smallpox. 3 Anyway, that's already been publicized in the 4 Constitution. I guess Daily Oklahoman should have 5 picked it up, but they didn't publish it in the 6 Daily Oklahoman or other newspapers. 7 This other, we wanted to pass a 8 resolution to nominate it to National Register. 9 And this other one I handed out to the CBC lists 10 the places on the Register in Oklahoma. I think 11 Medicine Bluff is in there, Otipoby, Apache 12 cemeteries. The last one was the Henry Post 13 Airfield. It was added in '78. So say this is 14 the airfield and they made that a historical -- 15 put it on the historical registry, except for the 16 cemetery, so it's not on there. They could have 17 done it. So I would say whenever we do this 18 application, I handed out to the CBC so you'll 19 know what was involved in the application. I 20 think it was about seven pages. The council 21 approved this nomination resolution in '07. 177 22 Comanches voted yes and zero voted no. So we have 23 a commitment that 177 Comanches to nominate it. 24 We want to put it on the agenda for this coming 25 April's meeting so we can have more numbers so we 122 1 can make sure that it gets nominated. 2 But anyway, seven pages. They 3 already got one passed for the Otipoby Cemetery 4 and the airfield. For the airfield, you could use 5 probably the same information, so you'll have to, 6 you know -- it's all in there. You should be able 7 to get that application. The main part was the 8 historical significance of the Comanches of that 9 cemetery. And the cemetery, as my mother was 10 saying, there's that cemetery and there's a mass 11 grave within that cemetery. I don't know, I get 12 the numbers mixed up, maybe 200 of three bands of 13 Comanches. And then west, or let's see, east, 14 there's a ditch with another mass grave that needs 15 to be recognized. Plus there's a lot of graves 16 out there that the Army dug up when they were 17 putting in apartments. It needs to be 18 recognized. They had stakings to pinpoint them 19 where they were, but they took them out, the 20 Army. They were violating NAGPRA but nothing was 21 never done. 22 And then the other -- this handout 23 was information about the cemetery itself. They 24 passed resolutions, and then over here was -- the 25 Army was trying to remove those graves at one 123 1 time. Right here, about 1990, during the Rogers 2 Lane expansion project a black construction man 3 said he uncovered a skull and bones and reported 4 the discovery to Fort Sill. So that's -- nothing 5 was done. No reburial. I don't know what they 6 done with the remains. That's probably happened a 7 lot. 8 Here's a cover letter for the 9 chairman to nominate it. The Fort Sill Pet 10 Cemetery is better maintained and recognized than 11 our mission cemetery. Used as a helicopter 12 landing site, land helicopters on there. Then 13 this is a resolution that the CBC adopted 14 themselves to nominate it in October '08. But I 15 guess, I don't know if this was ever submitted. 16 The Army said that it's not eligible to put on the 17 register because there was -- they sent a 18 construction architect out there and they didn't 19 see nothing. 20 MR. BURGESS: Anthropological. 21 MR. TOM NARCOMEY: The NAGPRA 22 director chairman said that they need to send an 23 ethnologist out there to look at the cultural 24 historical significance and they said it's 25 eligible, so that's all we got to do, is nominate 124 1 it, then it will be on the registry. That's all 2 we're asking, the CBC approve it. We've been 3 waiting a long time on this. We've been working 4 on it since '06. Well, before. This '95, this 5 article that publicized about the smallpox 6 blankets. 7 MR. BURGESS: I think you had a 8 tribal council resolution way back in '86. 9 MS. NARCOMEY: There is something I'd 10 like to mention, too. Is that all the four Indian 11 cemeteries were admitted to the National Register 12 of Historical Places. All the airfield is on the 13 national register, but somehow the cemetery 14 isn't. So that's really a mystery, why they're 15 not on there. And I'd like to mention that I have 16 a picture of the Wounded Knee monument. They were 17 mowed down by the Army. They kept all the names 18 there on a large monument. And then this summer, 19 I attended the Tonkawa where the Nez Pierce stayed 20 with the Tonkawa seven years, and they have a 21 monument similar to the Wounded Knee with all 22 those that were -- that died with the Tonkawa -- I 23 mean, when the Nez Pierce were with Tonkawas. And 24 that monument they have all the names on there. I 25 think ours should be like that since we have the 125 1 names. Any other monument would be so much -- I 2 don't know what you say, small. It just wouldn't 3 compare to the other cemeteries. And ours is 4 probably the oldest. 5 MR. BURGESS: Thank you, 6 Ms. Narcomey. 7 MR. TOM NARCOMEY: The CBC didn't 8 put -- postpone a nomination for the Otipoby 9 Cemetery, so I don't see why they should postpone 10 the one for the airfield cemetery. 11 MR. BURGESS: Do we have a motion or 12 is she giving us information? 13 MR. NARCOMEY: It seemed like last 14 month we voted on this, right? 15 MR. TIPPECONNIE: We said we're 16 holding it until matters that Mr. Wahnee's working 17 with Fort Sill on. We had that discussion, that 18 this was postponed to see how that proceeds. And 19 what I have to say is, I met with the garrison 20 commander here this week. And the -- knowing that 21 we have this kind of need to act on something, so 22 we're going to convene a meeting at some point 23 with those of interest with the garrison 24 commander, and that's to be set up sometime this 25 month yet. Yes? 126 1 MR. TOM NARCOMEY: I don't know if 2 you're going to do a resolution to create a 3 committee so we have as many Comanches as we can 4 to meet with them? 5 MR. TIPPECONNIE: I think something 6 like that's smart, but I think -- 7 MR. TOM NARCOMEY: Publicize it so we 8 get as many Comanches over there as you can. 9 MR. TIPPECONNIE: I think what's 10 smart at the moment is to get a smaller group. We 11 may have to go to a larger group. 12 MR. TOM NARCOMEY: In the meantime, 13 we could submit this resolution and that way we 14 won't waste any time. It's been a long time since 15 I've been working on this. That's why we put the 16 meeting -- put it on the agenda, because this now 17 -- because last month you had a meeting with Fort 18 Sill. We knew nothing was going to come out of 19 it, so that's why we said, well, go ahead and 20 nominate it now. 21 MR. TIPPECONNIE: The garrison 22 commander has agreed to have a meeting with us. 23 So I think we need to have initially, my own 24 thinking is a smaller meeting with him to discuss 25 the matters of the nomination and the matters of 127 1 Mr. Clark's activity and work. He's worked a long 2 time. 3 MR. TOM NARCOMEY: So have we. 4 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Both of you have. 5 Both of you have done good things and you are both 6 very, very -- well, the nomination with the tribe 7 has supported it by the resolution you're talking 8 about. But we're trying to allow the activity 9 that Mr. Clark has worked on to see if we can get 10 that done and then move on the nomination. So 11 this meeting that we're going to have scheduled is 12 to discuss that type of thing. Can we do both, 13 can we move ahead? Do we hold it in abeyance and 14 get all these things that Mr. Clark has worked 15 hard on? You know, so we need to have that 16 discussion and have it with the general, or, 17 excuse me, with the garrison commander. So that's 18 scheduled. Hopefully we can do it in week of the 19 18th -- 20 MR. TOM NARCOMEY: The Army moves 21 slow, and like everybody knows, the supply 22 warehouse, they were trying to build it right 23 beside Medicine Bluff. And they were supposed to 24 do that 20 years -- over 22 years ago, I think. 25 And they still haven't built it. 128 1 MR. TIPPECONNIE: We're not saying 2 that we -- I can't speak for all the CBC, but the 3 CBC's been on record supporting the nomination, 4 but we're also giving support to Mr. Clark to see 5 what he has and how that works out. So we need to 6 sit with the garrison commander, a few of us, like 7 yourself and maybe your mom. You know, Mr. Clark, 8 and maybe some others sit down and say, you know, 9 can we proceed with the nomination, or how do we 10 proceed with what Mr. Clark has gotten some okay 11 from the general to do. So those two things are 12 what we want to act upon, but we have to meet and 13 discuss it. 14 MR. TOM NARCOMEY: I think there's no 15 problem. I think the CBC wants it on the National 16 Register and the people or most -- almost all the 17 people want it on the National Register, and the 18 Army wants it on the National Register. They said 19 it was eligible. So everybody wants it on the 20 National Register. 21 MR. TIPPECONNIE: I don't think 22 that's the question. I think everybody gives 23 support to the nomination. But does it complicate 24 what Mr. Clark is doing right now? We need to 25 know that. 129 1 MR. TOM NARCOMEY: I don't think -- 2 we all want the same thing. We want access to the 3 cemetery. Like I said, going to look at Otipoby 4 Cemetery, before we had to walk up there, there 5 was no gate, nothing. It was never maintained. 6 But now, that's the way it's going to be like 7 that, that's what we all want. And we got a 8 monument there. 9 MR. NELSON: Mr. Tippeconnie, this is 10 two years and one month this was approved by the 11 standing CBC. Why was there no action taken 12 then? 13 MR. TIPPECONNIE: I can't address 14 that, except that I know the CBC gave it to, you 15 know, our staff to do. We have a staff that works 16 on that, and the staff didn't do the work. So 17 just like the form you see. See, we have to 18 complete this form. And more than that, we have 19 to give a lot of information. Gladys was giving 20 good information that's oral. 21 MR. NELSON: But y'all stated you 22 would do it, so it should be done. 23 MR. TIPPECONNIE: We did, we did, but 24 it wasn't acted on. It should have been. 25 MR. NELSON: Can we get it done now? 130 1 MR. TIPPECONNIE: We need to really 2 sit down, I feel, myself. We've talked to the 3 National Park Service who will acknowledge the 4 nomination and pass on it. There's a body up 5 there that passes on it. We have talked to some 6 of those people. We want to be sure what 7 Mr. Clark is proposing does not affect the 8 nomination or impact the nomination. 9 MR. BURGESS: Their recommendation 10 was to what we wanted to do, however we're going 11 to do it, and then make the nomination. Most 12 likely, it would pass nomination after we get all 13 these corrections, recognitions, landscaping, 14 whatever we're going to do, most likely would 15 pass. 16 MR. TOM NARCOMEY: So the National 17 Park Service is for the nomination, also. 18 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Well, we submit it. 19 MR. BURGESS: Whatever we submit and 20 it meets all their guidelines and requirements to 21 be a historical cultural significance. 22 MR. TOM NARCOMEY: They want to work 23 with us, we might as well -- 24 MR. BURGESS: We've got to work with 25 the post first. 131 1 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Let me make a 2 correction on something. Mr. Nelson's bringing 3 out a point. The one who makes the nomination is 4 Fort Sill. It sits at Fort Sill. So they have to 5 submit the nomination. We present information to 6 them. This oral kind of thing that your mom was 7 presenting, that kind of information, we present 8 that to them and then they put it in the document 9 and proceed. 10 MR. BURGESS: Also the transcript of 11 our tribal council meeting when she got up and did 12 the reading. That's got to be presented. 13 MR. TOM NARCOMEY: Plus the article 14 that was in the Constitution. 15 MR. BURGESS: That will be submitted. 16 MR. TOM NARCOMEY: Everything we can 17 find. That should help. 18 MR. TIPPECONNIE: But I think you 19 should bear with us to meet with Fort Sill this 20 month with the garrison commander. This month, 21 December. 22 MR. TOM NARCOMEY: Hurry up and wait, 23 that's the Army way of doing stuff. 24 MR. TIPPECONNIE: He's going to be 25 convenient. If we want to meet on a Saturday, 132 1 he'll make himself available. 2 MR. BURGESS: Gladys? 3 MRS. NARCOMEY: The National Historic 4 Register of Historic Places has strict rules and 5 the Army has never abided by them. I have 6 pictures of grass where they never cut. I had 7 names of the five people with stones, and one was 8 tibo. That's the way they like it. It's not 9 still on the historical places, even though all 10 around it is, because they wanted it moved, for 11 one thing, and they never cut the grass. In fact, 12 the only time they cut grass was when Keith 13 Yackeyonny went out there with a few people. I 14 can't remember the officer that was with him. But 15 anyway, improvements were made after Keith went 16 and visited. They put in lights and paved the 17 road. They built some kind of insulation inside 18 the hangar grounds where they had a gate, a small 19 gate. I think they had two gates you had to go in 20 there. Then you had to ask the tower for 21 permission to go in there. Then they built a 22 fence all around that cemetery, then they closed 23 the fence, and they said it was lost, abandoned 24 and forgotten after they did all that. 25 MR. NARCOMEY: Does anybody in here 133 1 know who the CBC's bosses are? Who's the CBC's 2 boss? The general council voted what we're 3 talking about. They voted it in. Now, here we 4 are, I'm the only one that voted yes to accept 5 this motion the last two times. So the way I look 6 at it, these guys are going against what the 7 people wants. That's all I got to say. 8 MR. TIPPECONNIE: Well, I would take 9 exception. We're not going against what the 10 people want. 11 MR. NARCOMEY: How come they didn't 12 pass it. They ought to get rid of us. 13 MR. TIPPECONNIE: The nomination's 14 been given to us by the tribal council. But what 15 we have going at the same time something Mr. Clark 16 is doing, and we've been giving support to 17 Mr. Clark. So we need to have this understanding, 18 does that activity impact the nomination? 19 MR. NARCOMEY: In other words, we're 20 going with one person versus the general council. 21 MR. TIPPECONNIE: No. 22 MR. NARCOMEY: Yeah, it is. 23 MS. ATTOCKNIE: In a way, Clyde's 24 right. Excuse me. But the general council voted 25 to nominate, do this nomination. There wasn't a 134 1 caveat to that vote, that affirmative vote: Well, 2 let's wait and see what happens down the line. 3 That general council resolution that was passed 4 was in '07 with 160-something votes to do that. 5 But there wasn't a caveat to that saying well, 6 let's wait until we see what else somebody has got 7 to say down the line, two years, four years, eight 8 years before we do it. You said also we got a 9 staff member that is supposed to have done that. 10 Somebody needs to say something. I'm just saying. 11 MR. BURGESS: Mrs. Goodin had her 12 hand up quite some time ago. 13 MRS. GOODIN: I wasn't even thinking 14 about this. 15 MR. BURGESS: Thank you. 16 MR. TIPPECONNIE: I appreciate, I 17 understand what you're saying, and I agree to the 18 points made by Clyde and I agree to your point. 19 There wasn't a caveat. However, during the 20 process we have given some endorsement to 21 Mr. Clark's activity. And that's a number of 22 things, he's done a lot of research and time 23 around matters of that cemetery. It's just giving 24 some consideration. Yes, there wasn't a caveat, 25 but we endorsed that, and so we're going to give 135 1 it consideration. So I feel if we can have this 2 meeting with the garrison commander, and Thomas 3 and your mom, you know, they certainly should be 4 there, so that's what I suggest. We're trying to 5 say we're going to do it here the 17th of December 6 in the afternoon in December. The garrison 7 commander said he'd make himself available. 8 There's one thing, too, that we may 9 want to do, which is smart, is to meet in advance 10 of that. So if we met in the morning and then we 11 met with the commander in the afternoon. 12 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: Tom, before you say 13 something. Clyde, I think last month, it's not 14 reflected in the minutes, we had a vote upon this 15 issue. I sided with you. 16 MR. NARCOMEY: I didn't realize 17 that. Thank you. 18 MR. WAUAHDOOAH: But I believe as 19 Phyllis said, we have got to go with what the 20 tribal council says. 21 MR. REDELK: I believe we are. This 22 is a process, and we're going through this 23 process. The way it's been stated time and time 24 again, it's a long process. So we need to 25 continue going through this process to do what the 136 1 tribal council asks. 2 MR. TIPPECONNIE: It's an action 3 that's underway, in my opinion, to do the 4 nomination. 5 MR. TOM NARCOMEY: I agree that we 6 need to do that process and nominate it so we can 7 go through that process of that nomination -- I 8 mean, yeah, to fill out the plans and submit it. 9 You know, there's nothing wrong with doing it. 10 Like the chairman said, it's not going to take a 11 month or whatever. It's going to take a long time 12 to get on the register, so I say do it now. The 13 sooner the quicker. It's a process. 14 MR. BURGESS: Thomas, in the sake of 15 time here, can we go ahead and try to establish 16 our meeting with the post and come back and update 17 everybody as soon as we can, because we need to 18 get with the post and start working these things 19 out. So that as soon as the first of the year 20 gets here, we can come back to you and tell you 21 how far, what progress we're making. Is that 22 okay? We need to move on here. We have got an 23 agenda. 24 MR. TOM NARCOMEY: There is a CFR 25 Code for the Army that says if anything is done to 137 1 that area -- anyway, it would be harder to put it 2 on the register. 3 MR. BURGESS: They're highly aware of 4 that. They know that. They were quoting them to 5 us at our meeting. 6 Our agenda, ladies and gentlemen, no 7 more new business here. We already discussed the 8 Riddles property. 9 MR. WHITEWOLF: When is Founder's 10 Day? 11 MR. BURGESS: 17th. We'll have 12 prayer breakfast on the 10th. By the way, some 13 people are saying our space is too small at 14 Watchetaker Hall. Those who are going to come, if 15 you need to have assistance, we're asking you to 16 bring one person that would assist you at the 17 table. A lot of people bring grandchildren or the 18 entire family. If there's two of you, fine. If 19 two or one of you need assistance, please bring 20 one person so there's enough seating for all of 21 our elders first. It's been announced in the 22 calendar, it's in the newsletter again. 23 Ladies and gentlemen, we are going to 24 move into -- 25 MS. ATTOCKNIE: I don't know if it 138 1 was brought up prior to my coming in here, but 2 there's been -- and I've gotten phone calls at 3 home, other people have come up to the offices, et 4 cetera, et cetera, but the rumor again is out 5 there that whatever we were supposed to get, 6 supposedly $1,590-something for the per cap 7 payment, that because we only received the $809, 8 that as of last week or something, that the tribal 9 members would be receiving the balance from the 10 809 to the 1,500. Would you please make a public 11 announcement as to the validity of that rumor? 12 MR. BURGESS: That is that, a rumor. 13 There is no balance to any other per cap, because 14 your per cap was only budgeted at 40 percent. 15 Then the Office of Indian Gaming Regulation in 16 Washington, D.C., along with the Bureau leadership 17 in Washington, D.C., Are the ones who determine 18 and approve the Comanche request to increase per 19 cap to 60 percent will be true or they approved 20 it. What we do on the tribal council floor, 21 okay. Then that goes forward to the Bureau and 22 the Office of Indian Gaming Management, and it's 23 their decision to approve that per cap increase. 24 And it will be everybody's decision to reduce 25 services by 20 percent because you've increased 139 1 per cap by 20 percent. 2 So we're going to be working our 3 budget up beginning October 1. Planning on a 60 4 percent per cap and reducing our program services 5 by the appropriate 20 percent. Yes, Thomas? 6 MR. TOM NARCOMEY: It would be good 7 if we have a detailed report on that in the 8 Comanche newspaper. That way everybody will 9 know. 10 MR. BURGESS: Thomas, I made that 11 statement several times. Made it last month. 12 Ladies and gentlemen, we have on our agenda the 13 executive session. Many of these people have 14 requested to come to us in executive session, so 15 by their choice, we're going to take a break here 16 and ask you all to go ahead and make your way 17 home, unless you're on the agenda. We'll try to 18 move some chairs outside there if you're going to 19 wait for us if you're on the agenda. Thank you. 20 (Open session concluded at 1:07 p.m.) 21 22 23 * * * * * * 24 25 140 1 R E P O R T E R 'S C E R T I F I C A T E 2 3 STATE OF OKLAHOMA ) ) 4 COUNTY OF OKLAHOMA ) 5 I, Kelly Stoabs, Certified Shorthand 6 Reporter for the State of Oklahoma, certify that 7 the above and foregoing meeting transcribed by me 8 is a true and correct transcript of the meeting; 9 that the meeting was held on December 4, 2010, in 10 the State of Oklahoma; that I am not an attorney 11 for nor a relative of any said parties, or 12 otherwise interested in the event of said action. 13 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set 14 hereunto set my hand and seal of office on this 15 the 5th day of January, 2011. 16 17 18 __________________________ 19 Kelly Stoabs Certified Shorthand Reporter 20 for the State of Oklahoma 21 22 23 24 25 141 1 S E C R E T A R Y ' S C E R T I F I C A T E 2 3 I, Robert Tippeconnie, Secretary- 4 Treasurer of Comanche Nation Business Committee, 5 certify that the above is a true and correct 6 transcript of a meeting of CBC Members held at 7 10:06 a.m. on December 4, 2010, and that the 8 meeting was duly called and held in all respects 9 in accordance with the charters and bylaws of the 10 Comanche Nation and that a quorum was present. 11 I further certify that the votes and 12 resolutions of the CBC Members of Comanche Nation 13 at the meeting are operative and in full force and 14 effect and have not been annulled or modified by 15 any vote or resolution passed or adopted by the 16 CBC since that meeting. 17 18 19 Signed:_________________________ Date:____________ Robert Tippeconnie 20 Secretary-Treasurer 21 22 23 24 25